Coronavirus Super Thread ( merged )

[SuperstarSteve]

34 minutes ago, Beni said:

 

Don't know about Israel, but as I said earlier if antibody testing is what's needed to reassure some of the vaccine hesitant then it's another tool to use, but as you mention, your friend isn't getting it under any circumstances, so antibody testing won't convince her.

The government's position seems reasonable to me, they want everyone working in health and social care to be vaccinated to reduce infection and transmission in these settings, but that isn't possible at the moment so they've announced a future date when it'll become mandatory.

 

It won’t convince her your right as her reasons were different, she just wanted to wait not so much of the opinion she wouldn’t get it, It was the UK gov decision to mandate it after winter that turned her off and it’s no longer an option for her, it may convince those who are adamant they are immune though and it’s proven to them that’s not the case. 
 

I know a couple folk who are a lost cause, full on anti-vaccine for no logical reasons and attempt to convince others to do the same, boils my blood, as they are part of the reason, to an extent that the few logical people are being ignored. 

[Taffin]

29 minutes ago, Beni said:

 

I can't see any antibody surveys that filter out the unvaccinated, but the number of primary school pupils (ie the only wholly unvaccinated age group) who have antibodies is 11.3%.

Whether that bears any resemblance to reality among the wider population is anybody's guess. 

 

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/articles/coronaviruscovid19latestinsights/antibodies

 

I'm not even going to attempt to dissect that as it jumps between antibodies to the virus and the disease seemingly interchangeably and I simply don't have a sufficient understanding of whether they are interchangeable or not (presumably they are) and I'm still unsure on whether the vaccine is actually designed to prevent the virus, or the disease or even if that distinction matters 😂😂

 

I simply understood that we realistically have no idea how many people have had the virus unless they've tested positive the virus or the antibodies.

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

5 hours ago, Victorian said:

One irony that will be completely lost on the vaccine refuseniks is that they have all existed for the past 12 months in societies that have been largely open with minimal restrictions.  They've been able to do all of the things that the vaccinated have been able to do.  This is all because of vaccines and the people who have taken them.

 

A vaccine shot provides personal protection to the individual against acute illness.  But collectively they provide a quality of life to everyone,  including the refuseniks.  

not lost on all - there was a vaccine-hesitant came onto this thread relatively recently thanking those who had been vaccinated at this stage as they were still undecided 

 

 

 

 

 

[SuperstarSteve]

19 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

If they had said NHS staff had to be vaccinated by next month, people would have kicked up feck about that, remember the travel bans, people moaned that they made it immediately, give people the chance to get back.....then when they gave people 3 days to get back, people moaned that it should have been immediate, you can't win sometimes.

 

I will agree, it smacks of being cynical to get the winter out of staff before it's mandatory, it does, however, give the staff plenty of time to reconsider and get the vaccine.

I agree with all that i just feel the reality is people are gonna kick up a fuss wether it’s now or later.
 

if the government believe the unvaccinated are a risk to their patients, they should’ve announced this long before now and given NHS staff plenty time to decide before the winter. Waiting till after is an unnecessary risk (during the worse period of the virus) which is the same reason the NHS staff are being told to get vaccinated. (Except when the worse part it over).

 

I fully accept the government cannot please everyone but they can’t be making decisions that make no sense and not expect people to question the logic in there decisions. 

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

2 hours ago, Rocco_Jambo said:

The opinion appears to help a lot of people ignore any morality issues over having and wanting perfectly healthy people in their 20’s who are very unlikely to be affected by this virus have it before vulnerable people based on which country or continent they live in.

 

A lot of these people would usually be highlighting vaccine procurement as a terrible example of the legacy of white colonialism, systemic racism in the world and asking white people to start owning their white privilege.

 

Because it might actually affect them in the real world it helps with the mental gymnastics if they keep telling themselves the act of taking the vaccine  is a selfless act done for those around them and for the greater good even when they’re are people in the world who need and deserve it far more.

Good post mate

 

its obviously a complex situation but clearly selfishness can be in the eye of the beholder and when principles are put to the test in the real world as you say …….

 

lack of vaccines for the worlds most vulnerable - the affects of lockdowns/restrictions on existing volatile food supplies to the worlds most vulnerable -  mental gymnastics required or a bit more consistency/honesty required

 

fits in with the view that quite a few appear to have agreed on that we’re often selfish everyday

 

 

[Victorian]

Calum Semple (Prof. Semple) was on tv earlier saying something about the difference between the situations in the UK and European countries.  He basically said what was suggested here a few days back.  That we're probably currently seeing a benefit from our previous sustained period of high infection rates.  Natural infection seems to have topped up the overall population immunity to a level that's preventing the speed of spread being seen in Europe.  I would suggest that this is very good news because it presents the high probability that there is herd immunity aspect at play and possible to sustain with a combination between vaccinations and infections.  It seems to me that the longer our current levels of infections continue,  the better.  Let it bubble along at a tolerable level and continue vaccinations.  The picture in Europe possibly suggests that a reasonable take-up up of vaccinations + overly suppressed epidemiology isn't enough to prevent large,  sudden waves.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

1 hour ago, SuperstarSteve said:

I agree with all that i just feel the reality is people are gonna kick up a fuss wether it’s now or later.
 

if the government believe the unvaccinated are a risk to their patients, they should’ve announced this long before now and given NHS staff plenty time to decide before the winter. Waiting till after is an unnecessary risk (during the worse period of the virus) which is the same reason the NHS staff are being told to get vaccinated. (Except when the worse part it over).

 

I fully accept the government cannot please everyone but they can’t be making decisions that make no sense and not expect people to question the logic in there decisions. 

 

NHS staff have been getting vaccinated since January/February, they have had plenty of time to decide whether to have the vaccine or not, before this winter.

[Malinga the Swinga]

My thanks to the staff at Ingilston today at lunchtime. Received booster and flu jabs from young female army medic who was assisting with booster program.

All very smoothly done with only around 30 minute wait.

Had both jabs in same arm, didn't see point in risking 2 sore arms, and absolutely no  adverse reaction so far. Moderna vaccine used.

[The Real Maroonblood]

13 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

My thanks to the staff at Ingilston today at lunchtime. Received booster and flu jabs from young female army medic who was assisting with booster program.

All very smoothly done with only around 30 minute wait.

Had both jabs in same arm, didn't see point in risking 2 sore arms, and absolutely no  adverse reaction so far. Moderna vaccine used.

👍

[SuperstarSteve]

5 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

NHS staff have been getting vaccinated since January/February, they have had plenty of time to decide whether to have the vaccine or not, before this winter.

You are correct but that was under the conditions they would still have a job if they don’t take it. If the government are serious about the unvaccinated being a threat and really want to go through with no jab no job for NHS staff it should’ve been in place before this winter. 
 

The fact they have pushed it back until after the winter means an unnecessary risk for patients. 
 

Your trying to convince NHS staff to take a jab on the basis they cannot be an unnecessary risk at the same time as making a decision that is an unnecessary risk. 
 

There is no logic in it unless it’s a scare tactic which they are never gonna go through with. 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

4 minutes ago, SuperstarSteve said:

You are correct but that was under the conditions they would still have a job if they don’t take it. If the government are serious about the unvaccinated being a threat and really want to go through with no jab no job for NHS staff it should’ve been in place before this winter. 
 

The fact they have pushed it back until after the winter means an unnecessary risk for patients. 
 

Your trying to convince NHS staff to take a jab on the basis they cannot be an unnecessary risk at the same time as making a decision that is an unnecessary risk. 
 

There is no logic in it unless it’s a scare tactic which they are never gonna go through with. 

 

Mandatory vaccination was in place long before the winter, here is an article from June about mandatory vaccination for NHS staff, albeit carehome staff, but it was already clear by this stage that all NHS staff were going to have mandatory vaccination applied.

https://www.mddus.com/resources/resource-library/news-digest/2021/june/consultation-on-mandatory-covid-19-vaccination-for-nhs-staff

[redjambo]

2 hours ago, Beni said:

 

Agree with that, although we shouldn't be too down on social media, as it's been revealed today that K̶i̶c̶k̶b̶a̶c̶k̶'̶s̶ ̶B̶i̶l̶l̶ ̶G̶a̶t̶e̶s̶ @redjambo has been instrumental in 2 posters getting the jab.

 

Only so I could monitor their activities through their new microchip implants. I may need a bigger living room soon.

 

 

[The Real Maroonblood]

2 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Only so I could monitor their activities through their new microchip implants. I may need a bigger living room soon.

 

 

[luckydug]

3 hours ago, SuperstarSteve said:

That is a fair point and I have asked that question but the argument the NHS worker I know had for that was. She signed her contract knowing that. Changing it mid contract is not acceptable, If they required new workers to get the vaccine who don’t currently have contract that would be more acceptable as they will know what they are signing up for. I couldn’t argue with that answer. 

Could patients sue the NHS if they contracted COVID from an unvaccinated member of staff. 

If I was in hospital and the hospital were knowingly allowing staff to avoid the vaccine and I then became ill with Covid I would seek legal advice. 

 

[Des Lynam]

9 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Only so I could monitor their activities through their new microchip implants. I may need a bigger living room soon.

 

 

I’m fine with this till after the watershed 😬

[SuperstarSteve]

16 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Mandatory vaccination was in place long before the winter, here is an article from June about mandatory vaccination for NHS staff, albeit carehome staff, but it was already clear by this stage that all NHS staff were going to have mandatory vaccination applied.

https://www.mddus.com/resources/resource-library/news-digest/2021/june/consultation-on-mandatory-covid-19-vaccination-for-nhs-staff

If they have been planning it since June they haven’t done a very good job as they aren’t putting it in effect until April next year. It should’ve been in place and taking effect before the winter not after if they are being serious about it. 

It’s not acceptable to be asking NHS staff to take a jab or lose their job on the basis of it being an unnecessary risk when your own decision making and lack of planning is gonna have the unvaccinated working through the winter which is an unnecessary risk. 
 

It’s scare tactics in my opinion  because If they go through with it after the winter it would be beyond ridiculous and massively hypocritical of them. If they are wanting to be taken seriously by NHS staff then don’t deliberately push it back until after the most serious time for the virus has been and gone. Where is the logic? 

 

[redjambo]

1 minute ago, Des Lynam said:

I’m fine with this till after the watershed 😬

 

I keep a tea towel over your monitor and only lift it for a small peek when I'm feeling brave.

[SuperstarSteve]

5 minutes ago, luckydug said:

Could patients sue the NHS if they contracted COVID from an unvaccinated member of staff. 

If I was in hospital and the hospital were knowingly allowing staff to avoid the vaccine and I then became ill with Covid I would seek legal advice. 

 

Is that true? How can they possibly prove it they caught it from someone unvaccinated. Especially if testing is done which prove unvaccinated aren’t a risk? 
 

the main spread in hospitals is patients to patients not staff to patients. 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

3 minutes ago, SuperstarSteve said:

If they have been planning it since June they haven’t done a very good job as they aren’t putting it in effect until April next year. It should’ve been in place and taking effect before the winter not after if they are being serious about it. 

It’s not acceptable to be asking NHS staff to take a jab or lose their job on the basis of it being an unnecessary risk when your own decision making and lack of planning is gonna have the unvaccinated working through the winter which is an unnecessary risk. 
 

It’s scare tactics in my opinion  because If they go through with it after the winter it would be beyond ridiculous and massively hypocritical of them. If they are wanting to be taken seriously by NHS staff then don’t deliberately push it back until after the most serious time for the virus has been and gone. Where is the logic? 

 

 

Logic?  Your dealing with Government & Health Boards .

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

7 minutes ago, luckydug said:

Could patients sue the NHS if they contracted COVID from an unvaccinated member of staff. 

If I was in hospital and the hospital were knowingly allowing staff to avoid the vaccine and I then became ill with Covid I would seek legal advice. 

 

Seriously - you would seek legal advice (you would be of course be entitled to look into it)

 

anything else spring to mind you would seek legal advice on - examples widely reported of doctors (even pre-covid) working hours way beyond they should / debatably is safe ? one of them possibly doesn’t give you the optimum service would you be onto the lawyers for that (again probably entitled to look into it) ?
 

 

 

 

[SuperstarSteve]

20 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Logic?  Your dealing with Government & Health Boards .

Well played JJ 😂

[luckydug]

10 minutes ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

Seriously - you would seek legal advice (you would be of course be entitled to look into it)

 

anything else spring to mind you would seek legal advice on - examples widely reported of doctors (even pre-covid) working hours way beyond they should / debatably is safe ? one of them possibly doesn’t give you the optimum service would you be onto the lawyers for that (again probably entitled to look into it) ?
 

 

 

 

No ! I can't stand litigation culture. 

The point stands though, the hospital has to be seen to be taking reasonable precautions. 

Instead of say I (as in myself) I should have said A PATIENT. 

Hope that clears it up, don't want to be labelled an 'ambulance chaser' 😁 

[Beni]

3 hours ago, redjambo said:

 

Only so I could monitor their activities through their new microchip implants. I may need a bigger living room soon.

 

 

 

Fair play, I can see now with all that monitoring on top of the stats something had to give. 🤣

[redjambo]

2 minutes ago, Beni said:

 

Fair play, I can see now with all that monitoring on top of the stats something had to give. 🤣

 

[Don Dan]

Very informative article about Masks. 
 

https://apple.news/AZxmtiC0aQryJBAF-GUSyvQ

 

Evidence shows that, yes, masks prevent COVID-19 – and surgical masks are the way to go.

[SuperstarSteve]

I must admit I am very thankful for the information everyone has posted. I’m sure most of us would agree but it’s been very helpful throughout the pandemic for learning a lot on the subject. 
 

Reading comments, sensible and heated debates, reliable articles, RED’s statistics and being corrected when I’m wrong 😂. All very appreciated 👍

[Taffin]

8 hours ago, Boy Daniel said:

Very informative article about Masks. 
 

https://apple.news/AZxmtiC0aQryJBAF-GUSyvQ

 

Evidence shows that, yes, masks prevent COVID-19 – and surgical masks are the way to go.

 

The article you've posted doesn't prove your conclusion as far as I could see. Not sure if you meant to post a different link?

 

The surgical mask groups saw a 12% reduction in Covid cases, some of which will surely be down to the 5% increase in physical distancing. 

 

Masks work, a little bit; surgical masks work a little bit more. The evidence of that trial doesn't show masks prevent Covid-19 though.

[Harry Potter]

8 hours ago, Boy Daniel said:

Very informative article about Masks. 
 

https://apple.news/AZxmtiC0aQryJBAF-GUSyvQ

 

Evidence shows that, yes, masks prevent COVID-19 – and surgical masks are the way to go.

well i never.

[Nucky Thompson]

9 hours ago, Boy Daniel said:

Very informative article about Masks. 
 

https://apple.news/AZxmtiC0aQryJBAF-GUSyvQ

 

Evidence shows that, yes, masks prevent COVID-19 – and surgical masks are the way to go.

The conclusion is surgical masks can reduce the risks a wee bit and cloth masks are 'better than nothing'

[Herbert.]

13 hours ago, luckydug said:

Could patients sue the NHS if they contracted COVID from an unvaccinated member of staff. 

If I was in hospital and the hospital were knowingly allowing staff to avoid the vaccine and I then became ill with Covid I would seek legal advice. 

 

 

 

Would you seek legal advice if you caught the cold or flu?

[Unknown user]

13 hours ago, luckydug said:

Could patients sue the NHS if they contracted COVID from an unvaccinated member of staff. 

If I was in hospital and the hospital were knowingly allowing staff to avoid the vaccine and I then became ill with Covid I would seek legal advice. 

 

 

How would you prove you got it from an unvaccinated member of staff?

[Taffin]

26 minutes ago, Herbert said:

 

 

Would you seek legal advice if you caught the cold or flu?

 

Previously no, but now yes. The last 18 months have proven we've a right not to get ill and we you do it must have been someone else's fault.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

🎣

Edited November 23, 2021 by Taffin

[Don Dan]

This video is the best example of how effect a surgical face mask is compared to wearing no mask at all. 

[Herbert.]

1 hour ago, Taffin said:

 

Previously no, but now yes. The last 18 months have proven we've a right not to get ill and we you do it must have been someone else's fault.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

🎣

 

Would Digby brown take on a case for a mild case of the sniffles?

[Herbert.]

1 hour ago, Boy Daniel said:

This video is the best example of how effect a surgical face mask is compared to wearing no mask at all. 

 

 

I've not worn a mask in months and not vaccinated and not caught anything.

[Mikey1874]

5 minutes ago, Herbert said:

 

 

I've not worn a mask in months and not vaccinated and not caught anything.

 

Good

 

Though it's the unvaccinated that are putting the big pressure on Covid wards.

 

And the knock on effect of delaying other treatments. 

 

If everyone was vaccinated this would all be over. 

[Unknown user]

6 minutes ago, Herbert said:

 

 

I've not worn a mask in months and not vaccinated and not caught anything.

So?

[XB52]

7 minutes ago, Herbert said:

 

 

I've not worn a mask in months and not vaccinated and not caught anything.

Wow, edgy as anything you are 

[Herbert.]

4 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Good

 

Though it's the unvaccinated that are putting the big pressure on Covid wards.

 

And the knock on effect of delaying other treatments. 

 

If everyone was vaccinated this would all be over. 

 

Right enough it's certainly all over in gibraltar where 100% of adults are vaccinated. 

[Herbert.]

6 minutes ago, XB52 said:

Wow, edgy as anything you are 

 

 

If my right to decide what to put in my body and what I wear is edgy then it certainly is.

[JudyJudyJudy]

10 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Good

 

Though it's the unvaccinated that are putting the big pressure on Covid wards.

 

And the knock on effect of delaying other treatments. 

 

If everyone was vaccinated this would all be over. 

I’ve heard that People who Ill are putting pressure on hospitals . Quelle surprise . “ if everyone was vaccinated this would all be over “ ???? 

[Don Dan]

20 minutes ago, Herbert said:

 

 

I've not worn a mask in months and not vaccinated and not caught anything.

That’s the way it goes for some people.
Others aren’t so lucky. 
My next door neighbour who is a teacher who has not long recovered from Hodgkins and was ultra careful and had both doses caught at his school. Another neighbour across the road also double vaccinated caught it from going to the gym. Both were quite unwell for a few days. Interestingly neither of their wives caught it. 

The bottom line for me is take every precaution you can to not only protect yourself but also protect others. 
 

Edited November 23, 2021 by Boy Daniel

[SuperstarSteve]

4 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Good

 

Though it's the unvaccinated that are putting the big pressure on Covid wards.

 

And the knock on effect of delaying other treatments. 

 

If everyone was vaccinated this would all be over. 

Is that true? I’ve seen studies that show the biggest transmission comes from to patient to patient not unvaccinated staff to patient infact I’m still confused as how that can even be proven. The main cause from what I’ve gathered is poor ventilation in hospitals and sick patients spreading it.

 

If your right that it’s the non jabbed that’s the main cause They will go through with their threat to sack nurses but if they aren’t the main cause the government will do a u-turn. 
 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

Just now, SuperstarSteve said:

Is that true? I’ve seen studies that show the biggest transmission comes from to patient to patient not unvaccinated staff to patient infact I’m still confused as how that can even be proven. The main cause from what I’ve gathered is poor ventilation in hospitals and sick patients spreading it.

 

If your right that it’s the non jabbed that’s the main cause They will go through with their threat to sack nurses but if they aren’t the main cause the government will do a u-turn. 
 

 

Yes hospitals have always been a hot bed ( pardon the pun ) of transmission of covid for a variety of reasons . Even my GP felt it wasn’t worth me taking the risk of getting an x Ray in Feb this year due to this . I was also contacted via track and trace after I had been a day patient in hospital in Jan too . The only time I have to self isolate . As for the transmission of it , we’ll that’s a mystery really . Like I’ve said been around 2 people in close contact with them who then were diagnosed with it with a day of being in their company . Mixture of luck ? , previous asymptomatic infection ? Etc 

[Mikey1874]

6 minutes ago, SuperstarSteve said:

Is that true? I’ve seen studies that show the biggest transmission comes from to patient to patient not unvaccinated staff to patient infact I’m still confused as how that can even be proven. The main cause from what I’ve gathered is poor ventilation in hospitals and sick patients spreading it.

 

If your right that it’s the non jabbed that’s the main cause They will go through with their threat to sack nurses but if they aren’t the main cause the government will do a u-turn. 
 

 

 

Just going by the reports from the hospitals mainly.

 

Very ill, older vaccinated people are dying. But overall vaccinated people in hospital are not seriously ill. 

 

The big pressures on the hospitals, with knock on effects for everything else are unvaccinated people. 

 

For example 98% of pregnant women in hospital for Covid are unvaccinated. 

 

The new treatments do offer some hope. But how long that takes to become the silver bullet. Because its clear there will continue to be millions unvaccinated. Was 5 million adults unvaccinated last time I saw. They've got to hope the virus disappears. 

Edited November 23, 2021 by Mikey1874

[Herbert.]

7 minutes ago, Boy Daniel said:

That’s the way it goes for some people.
Others aren’t so lucky. 
My next door neighbour who is a teacher who has not long recovered from Hodgkins and was ultra careful and had both doses caught at his school. Another neighbour across the road also double vaccinated caught it from going to the gym. Both were quite unwell for a few days. Interestingly neither of their wives caught it. 

The bottom line for me is take every precaution you can to not only protect yourself but also protect others. 
 

 

 

If someone is at risk because they have a weekend immune system then they need to take the precautions to keep themselves safe. What I don't get though is alot of the vulnerable are exempt from masks. 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

5 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Just going by the reports from the hospitals mainly.

 

Very ill, older vaccinated people are dying. But overall vaccinated people in hospital are not seriously ill. 

 

The big pressures on the hospitals, with knock on effects for everything else are unvaccinated people. 

 

For example 98% of pregnant women in hospital for Covid are unvaccinated. 

 

The new treatments do offer some hope. But how long that takes to become the silver bullet. Because its clear there will continue to be millions unvaccinated. Was 5 million adults unvaccinated last time I saw. They've got to hope the virus disappears. 

It’s winter ! Hospitals always struggle in winter . File it under  “ nothing to see here “ 

 

 

[Mikey1874]

12 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

It’s winter ! Hospitals always struggle in winter . File it under  “ nothing to see here “ 

 

 

 

Normal winter plus Covid which didn't exist before. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

17 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Normal winter plus Covid which didn't exist before. 

It did last winter ! Every year at this timd the NHS is always on its knees apparently . However I noted that there were less hospitals admissions deaths and iCU in the last week than the week before . Also deaths are still very much in the over 60s , the same age range one would expect To be more vulnerable in the winter . 

[Chillidigits]

Read something the other day about a new strain emerging. About 10% more transmissible than current one but about the same in terms of how it affects us. Viruses never seem to leave us off their Christmas list.