Coronavirus Super Thread ( merged )

[Beni]

29 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

That's too simplistic a way of looking at it from the point of view of why it's beneficial.

 

But for your general person who isn't involved in policy or decision making imo it's simply because people like others to share their outlook. 'I did X,Y,Z therefore you and everyone else should also do X,Y,Z' 

 

Why? I don't know. For many though it's human nature I guess.

 

 

 

On your second paragraph I'd hazard that vaccinated Austrians now going back into lockdown have a different reason for wishing more people had chosen to get vaccinated.

 

[William H. Bonney]

18 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

How long did that take to kick in? I’ve just had mine an hour ago.

I had mine late morning. By mid afternoon I had the fire on and was seeking sympathy from those around me. 

[redjambo]

1 minute ago, William H. Bonney said:

I had mine late morning. By mid afternoon I had the fire on and was seeking sympathy from those around me. 

 

Did you get any?

[GinRummy]

3 minutes ago, William H. Bonney said:

I had mine late morning. By mid afternoon I had the fire on and was seeking sympathy from those around me. 

Sounds shit. I’m going out for lunch. Hope it doesn’t **** up my afternoon, not had a few pub pints for weeks. 
 

edit: should have added, glad you’re feeling better 👍

Edited November 20, 2021 by GinRummy

[William H. Bonney]

Just now, redjambo said:

 

Did you get any?

No. Tough audience. 

[William H. Bonney]

3 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

Sounds shit. I’m going out for lunch. Hope it doesn’t **** up my afternoon, not had a few pub pints for weeks. 
 

edit: should have added, glad you’re feeling better 👍

Which is good because now I can enjoy the football. 

[The Real Maroonblood]

18 minutes ago, redjambo said:

In a way I hope that I do get a noticeable reaction from my upcoming booster jab. The first two had no ostensible effect on me, and it felt in both cases like I had been given a placebo. Perhaps they forgot to add the microchips.

Going to your local pub will take your mind of any reaction to the jag.

🍺🍷

[Enzo Chiefo]

I was never going to get both jabs together so have booked a flu jab in the Chemist for a week after the Covid booster.

They seem to have availability 2 weeks ahead so might be an option for those who are reticent about getting both together. 

[redjambo]

Just now, The Real Maroonblood said:

Going to your local pub will take your mind of any reaction to the jag.

🍺🍷

 

Now there's a great idea. My local pub is much better now as well since they started making the patrons check in their weapons at the door.

[Taffin]

5 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Nah. I think most people who think about the virus/vaccination issue realise that it is in our common interest to have as high a rate of immunity in the population as possible (although perhaps not in those terms), and that vaccination is a safer more secure route to achieve that. Ok, there is a mixture of both selfishness ("if there is less virus around then there is less chance I or one of my loved ones will catch it") and altruism in that thought process, but I doubt very much that many folk at all are thinking "I've had the vaccine so others must have it too". You do have a point that the concept of 'following the herd', and folk feeling more comfortable when the other folk around them are not too different from them, is a trait of human behaviour - I just don't think it is a key motivation in this case.

 

In saying that, I hope I understood your comment correctly, Taffin.

 

Yes, you understood, apologies if I wasn't very clear. It also wasn't meant as a criticism of people either hence my first part acknowledging that the way the argument was being used was far to linear.

 

Quite honestly I don't think people think about it at a deep enough level or understand it enough to really have an educated opinion (myself included, which is why I don't really care if others do or don't get vaccinated, despite thinking it would be better for my worldview if they did). Some undoubtedly do understand it enough and in those instances I agree with you. 

 

In my experience when someone in person has indicated to me that they believe everyone should get vaccinated or even be forced to be, when you press for why they think that, they don't really have very much behind that other than they've felt they should be vaccinated and as such they've decided they've made the correct choice and by extension of that those who've made another choice must therefore be wrong but can't really articulate why they're wrong.

 

1 minute ago, Beni said:

 

On your second paragraph I'd hazard that vaccinated Austrians now going back into lockdown have a different reason for wishing more people had chosen to get vaccinated.

 

 

Because they've decided being vaccinated is the correct choice? That's the same reason I was giving. What's the other reason?

 

[John Gentleman]

12 hours ago, William H. Bonney said:

The booster has floored me. No side effects from the other 2 jabs but this one. ugghh. I feel really run down and my arm is killing me. 
Hopefully just a 24 hour thing. 

Were your first two Astrazeneca and the booster Pfizer/Moderna? I've heard about a few people feeling knocked about for 24 hours or so following mRNA boosters.

[Enzo Chiefo]

1 minute ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

Going to your local pub will take your mind of any reaction to the jag.

🍺🍷

Ask your Doc - if you can find him/her - to prescribe a "liquid lunch"👍

[The Real Maroonblood]

Just now, Enzo Chiefo said:

I was never going to get both jabs together so have booked a flu jab in the Chemist for a week after the Covid booster.

They seem to have availability 2 weeks ahead so might be an option for those who are reticent about getting both together. 

My mate got both jags together and he felt shit after it. 

[The Real Maroonblood]

Just now, Enzo Chiefo said:

Ask your Doc - if you can find him/her - to prescribe a "liquid lunch"👍

That would be awesome. 

[Enzo Chiefo]

Just now, The Real Maroonblood said:

My mate got both jags together and he felt shit after it. 

Yes,  that was my worry too. Rearranged my elderly parents' flu jabs too and they were both fine apart from very minor symptoms. 

Hope your mate recovered quickly. 

[The Real Maroonblood]

1 minute ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Yes,  that was my worry too. Rearranged my elderly parents' flu jabs too and they were both fine apart from very minor symptoms. 

Hope your mate recovered quickly. 

A couple of days and he was fine.

[Beni]

7 minutes ago, Taffin said:

Because they've decided being vaccinated is the correct choice? That's the same reason I was giving. What's the other reason?

 

I possibly picked you up wrong, but you said it was simply about wanting others to share their outlook, I'm saying it's more about consequences than outlook, but accept that's probably splitting hairs.

[JudyJudyJudy]

12 hours ago, William H. Bonney said:

The booster has floored me. No side effects from the other 2 jabs but this one. ugghh. I feel really run down and my arm is killing me. 
Hopefully just a 24 hour thing. 

 

11 hours ago, Lone Striker said:

Did you get the flu jab at the same time ?   Heard  a few folk saying that the flu jab is worse than usual this year (for pain)

 

 

I was speaking to someone yesterday and he informed me that he just got his flu jab at his local chemist. He said he just asked and then made an appointment. Like others I don't fancy getting both at the one time. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

I have had an ongoing shoulder problem for a few months now. Now getting physio etc. Since I'm a hypochondriac I have asked my Dr if it may be linked to this phenomena ?  Its called SIRVA So make sure whoever gives you the prick pricks you are the right part of the arm and muscle .  

 

SIRVA: People left in agony and unable to move arm after Covid vaccine | Metro News

[Taffin]

4 minutes ago, Beni said:

 

I possibly picked you up wrong, but you said it was simply about wanting others to share their outlook, I'm saying it's more about consequences than outlook, but accept that's probably splitting hairs.

 

Possibly just how we're viewing outlook Vs consequences, don't think we're in disagreement.

 

For some not getting vaccinated is more important than avoiding lockdown, for others they think it's a small price to pay and as such believe others should take the same actions to allow that to be avoided.

 

I'd rather be vaccinated than in lockdown, equally I don't think it's is (or at least doesn't need to be) as binary as that, but I wasn't really intending to input my thoughts other than the difficulty humans have to avoid believing others should want and think the same way they do. I'm doing it right now in many respects 😂

[redjambo]

2 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

 

I was speaking to someone yesterday and he informed me that he just got his flu jab at his local chemist. He said he just asked and then made an appointment. Like others I don't fancy getting both at the one time. 

 

Just to add a counterpoint, in case folk are getting the impression that flu + booster necessarily means an uncomfortable few hours afterwards, my parents in their 80s, and their friends, all had both at the same time and none of them experienced any reactions (that they felt worth letting me know about, anyway). However, having both jabs at the same time probably does double your chances of reacting, simply because you've had two vaccinations to react to. In the same way that there was a plethora of different reactions to the initial jabs, I'm sure there will be this time too.

 

Anyhow, each to their own. Getting the two jabs is the most important thing, and it's great to see that the booster programme is rolling out well.

[JudyJudyJudy]

3 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Just to add a counterpoint, in case folk are getting the impression that flu + booster necessarily means an uncomfortable few hours afterwards, my parents in their 80s, and their friends, all had both at the same time and none of them experienced any reactions (that they felt worth letting me know about, anyway). However, having both jabs at the same time probably does double your chances of reacting, simply because you've had two vaccinations to react to. In the same way that there was a plethora of different reactions to the initial jabs, I'm sure there will be this time too.

 

Anyhow, each to their own. Getting the two jabs is the most important thing, and it's great to see that the booster programme is rolling out well.

I meant get mine on the other arm then. . As long as that shoulder doesn't go too....jesus ....:)  😀

[Dennis Denuto]

10 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Just to add a counterpoint, in case folk are getting the impression that flu + booster necessarily means an uncomfortable few hours afterwards, my parents in their 80s, and their friends, all had both at the same time and none of them experienced any reactions (that they felt worth letting me know about, anyway). However, having both jabs at the same time probably does double your chances of reacting, simply because you've had two vaccinations to react to. In the same way that there was a plethora of different reactions to the initial jabs, I'm sure there will be this time too.

 

Anyhow, each to their own. Getting the two jabs is the most important thing, and it's great to see that the booster programme is rolling out well.

I got both jags yesterday, one each arm. Pfizer arm got a bit sore in the afternoon and evening, so far that’s it. 
 

Hopefully full blown flu doesn’t kick in at Fir Park this afternoon. 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

1 hour ago, redjambo said:

In a way I hope that I do get a noticeable reaction from my upcoming booster jab. The first two had no ostensible effect on me, and it felt in both cases like I had been given a placebo. Perhaps they forgot to add the microchips.

 

Same here with my first two (AZ), the second one in particular, not even a sore arm far less anything else, this time however, I did have a reaction, but don't know if it was the flu jab or the booster (pfizer) which made me feel under the weather for 24 hrs, flu jab arm was way more sore than the booster jab arm.  I often have a reaction to the flu jab lasting anything from a few hrs to a day, all good now.

Got jabs Wednesday tea time, felt rough most of Thursday, fine Friday morning.

 

[Enzo Chiefo]

Anyone know if there is any difference in efficacy between Pfizer and a half of Moderna? I think you get whichever one happens to be delivered on the day. "Vaccination of the Day" if you like.

[William H. Bonney]

1 hour ago, John Gentleman said:

Were your first two Astrazeneca and the booster Pfizer/Moderna? I've heard about a few people feeling knocked about for 24 hours or so following mRNA boosters.

Yes. I got the Moderna on Thursday. 

[William H. Bonney]

1 hour ago, JamesM48 said:

 

I was speaking to someone yesterday and he informed me that he just got his flu jab at his local chemist. He said he just asked and then made an appointment. Like others I don't fancy getting both at the one time. 

i got the flu jab at boots. I get it free through my work. 

[milky_26]

Just now, William H. Bonney said:

i got the flu jab at boots. I get it free through my work. 

i had to pay for it but i got it in boots today and there was a couple in front of me in the queue who had not booked but asked and got it within 15 mins.

[Enzo Chiefo]

1 hour ago, JamesM48 said:

 

I was speaking to someone yesterday and he informed me that he just got his flu jab at his local chemist. He said he just asked and then made an appointment. Like others I don't fancy getting both at the one time. 

That's what I've done too, James. Booster next weekend and then flu jab the following week at a local chemist.  

[JudyJudyJudy]

16 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

That's what I've done too, James. Booster next weekend and then flu jab the following week at a local chemist.  

Yes think I’ll just do that too . 

[Fire_At_The_Disco]

20 hours ago, redjambo said:

 

Sorry, Fire, but I didn't have the energy to continue. The Travelling Tabby site at https://www.travellingtabby.com/scotland-coronavirus-tracker/  has more data, tables and graphs than you can shake a stick at though, so well worth paying it a regular visit.

Thanks bud👍

[Lone Striker]

3 hours ago, redjambo said:

In a way I hope that I do get a noticeable reaction from my upcoming booster jab. The first two had no ostensible effect on me, and it felt in both cases like I had been given a placebo. Perhaps they forgot to add the microchips.

Worldwide shortage of microchips, Red.    😄   The anti-vaxxers will have to think up another reason for their stance.

[redjambo]

7 minutes ago, Lone Striker said:

Worldwide shortage of microchips, Red.    😄   The anti-vaxxers will have to think up another reason for their stance.

 

Makes sense, LS. They've had to use a huge number of microchips in a relatively short period of time. You'd have thought that they would have planned it better. Typical. They can't even control the human population properly.

[Alex Kintner]

3 hours ago, redjambo said:

 

Just to add a counterpoint, in case folk are getting the impression that flu + booster necessarily means an uncomfortable few hours afterwards, my parents in their 80s, and their friends, all had both at the same time and none of them experienced any reactions (that they felt worth letting me know about, anyway). However, having both jabs at the same time probably does double your chances of reacting, simply because you've had two vaccinations to react to. In the same way that there was a plethora of different reactions to the initial jabs, I'm sure there will be this time too.

 

Anyhow, each to their own. Getting the two jabs is the most important thing, and it's great to see that the booster programme is rolling out well.

My mum had flu jab and booster at same time and no ill effects apart from arm a bit sore for a couple of hours.

[Ray Gin]

2 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Anyone know if there is any difference in efficacy between Pfizer and a half of Moderna? I think you get whichever one happens to be delivered on the day. "Vaccination of the Day" if you like.

 

"The study, published in the journal Lancet Regional Health Europe, found that following a dose of the AstraZeneca vaccine — a vaccine similar to J&J’s — a follow-up dose of the Pfizer vaccine resulted in 67% effectiveness against symptomatic disease, and a follow-up dose of the Moderna vaccine resulted in 79% effectiveness against symptomatic disease.

 

Importantly, any two-shot combination with a first-dose AstraZeneca vaccine was highly effective in preventing hospitalization. Of more than 541,000 vaccinated people in this study, only three people were later hospitalized. Unvaccinated people were 16 times more likely to be hospitalized than vaccinated people in this study.

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-10-26/which-booster-shot-should-i-get-heres-how-to-chose

Edited November 20, 2021 by Ray Gin

[Enzo Chiefo]

4 hours ago, Ray Gin said:

 

"The study, published in the journal Lancet Regional Health Europe, found that following a dose of the AstraZeneca vaccine — a vaccine similar to J&J’s — a follow-up dose of the Pfizer vaccine resulted in 67% effectiveness against symptomatic disease, and a follow-up dose of the Moderna vaccine resulted in 79% effectiveness against symptomatic disease.

 

Importantly, any two-shot combination with a first-dose AstraZeneca vaccine was highly effective in preventing hospitalization. Of more than 541,000 vaccinated people in this study, only three people were later hospitalized. Unvaccinated people were 16 times more likely to be hospitalized than vaccinated people in this study.

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-10-26/which-booster-shot-should-i-get-heres-how-to-chose

Thanks Ray.👍

[Gorgi1874]

11 hours ago, redjambo said:

 

I can imagine you sitting there feeling all pleased with yourself when you posted that, envisaging yourself as Confucius parting with words of considered wisdom to the masses. "They will suddenly realise the error of their ways when challenged with such a truism!".

 

However, in the end, I'm sorry to say that what came out was just a naive meaningless steaming heap of donkey dung. The discussion as to the 'carrot and the stick' encouragement of the unvaccinated to become vaccinated for the common good is a valid one to have, but your statement adds the square root of feck all to that discussion.

 

Better luck next time though. Don't give up on the path to enlightenment!

Do you spend a lot of time imagining men sitting there all pleased with themselves?

[Gorgi1874]

13 hours ago, kila said:

 

Edited November 20, 2021 by Gorgi1874

[Gorgi1874]

13 hours ago, Alex Kintner said:

Which colour of crayon would you like me to respond in?

I bet you've eaten them all

[redjambo]

29 minutes ago, Gorgi1874 said:

Do you spend a lot of time imagining men sitting there all pleased with themselves?

 

No, I made an exception for you, honey. Because you're worth it.

[Gorgi1874]

7 hours ago, redjambo said:

 

No, I made an exception for you, honey. Because you're worth it.

😆😆

[CavySlaveJambo]

22 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

I was never going to get both jabs together so have booked a flu jab in the Chemist for a week after the Covid booster.

They seem to have availability 2 weeks ahead so might be an option for those who are reticent about getting both together. 

Good Idea. I got my flu jab at the chemist and then my booster later.  I am glad I did as the number of people around my own (30’s) that had issues with getting both together is quite high. 

[Nucky Thompson]

The Europeans aren't putting up with new restrictions on their liberty and neither they should.

 

[Alex Kintner]

28 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

The Europeans aren't putting up with new restrictions on their liberty and neither they should.

 

Suspect the vast majority understand the need and any anger they have is directed at the selfish people who refused to get vaccinated rather than the government. 

[Alex Kintner]

7 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Indeed. And for every protestor, there’ll be thousands more who make their own decisions re compliance. 
 

Once again I’ll say that if this had kicked off anywhere else than a totalitarian state such as China, then lockdowns would never have even be considered in Europe, the UK or US.

What would have been the alternative? Herd immunity?

[Alex Kintner]

22 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Honestly don’t know, Alex. But we certainly wouldn’t have been destroying lives and livelihoods from March 2020 by making their businesses close and forcing them to stay between their four walls. China, along with a willingly sensationalist media, gave the rest licence to do broad sweep legislation that, in normal times politicians in the west can only dream of.

I’m not so sure of that. The scientists said they were very clear from the onset that a lockdown was the only way to curb transmission. The delay was because our government didn’t think the people would accept but we did. I think we would have still got to a lockdown point eventually regardless of where it originated.

 

Also (and I know this is slightly dodgy reasoning) almost every pandemic/virus movie you see, with the vast majority focus on America, features society being out into lockdown so it’s not like it’s unexpected if something like this hits.

[Herbert.]

51 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:

Suspect the vast majority understand the need and any anger they have is directed at the selfish people who refused to get vaccinated rather than the government. 

 

 

How are people that aren't vaccinated selfish?

[Alex Kintner]

Just now, jonesy said:

The 'playbook' from WHO on pandemics of this sort apparently focused about mitigations and good hygiene, with some limited restrictions of movement. We may well have got to a lockdown point, but it is a blunt instrument that causes, in some cases, greater harm than the virus itself. China's move essentially abdicated some governments of their responsibility towards their citizens.

Did the WHO have a playbook for a cornonovirus outbreak of this nature?

[Alex Kintner]

21 minutes ago, Herbert said:

 

 

How are people that aren't vaccinated selfish?

 

[SuperstarSteve]

1 hour ago, Herbert said:

 

 

How are people that aren't vaccinated selfish?

I don’t understand that opinion either but people are entitled to it. 
 

You could vaccinate everyone in the world and covid would still be spreading. It’s here to stay and it’s no the vaccinated or the unvaccinated fault.