Coronavirus Super Thread ( merged )

[Rocco_Jambo]

Just now, Smithee said:

No it isn't

 

It clearly is to have that "what if?" hanging over her family's head based on the doctor making an educated guess the vaccine would have saved her.

[Rocco_Jambo]

Just now, Nucky Thompson said:

There's a very high chance, 95%, that she wouldn't have died from Covid if she had been vaccinated.

It's not a guess

 

That's not really backed up by the amount of under 45's dying at the moment compared to last year. If we are going to follow the science and the stats you can't just choose one that suits you and make a gues based on that.

[SuperstarSteve]

Very tragic but I don’t understand having faith in a vaccine, so much so you call for mandatory jabs all round but then end the sentence by saying your scared to go outside. He just defeated his own argument by saying that. 

[Taffin]

3 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

There's a very high chance, 95%, that she wouldn't have died from Covid if she had been vaccinated.

It's not a guess

 

That's not the same as saying it's definitive though.

 

The percentage of surviving Covid as a 27 year is higher than 95% without the vaccine yet she still sadly passed away so whilst statistically it's likely she'd have survived, she might not have.

[Nucky Thompson]

Just now, Rocco_Jambo said:

 

That's not really backed up by the amount of under 45's dying at the moment compared to last year. If we are going to follow the science and the stats you can't just choose one that suits you and make a gues based on that.

The vaccines are proven to prevent death and hospitalisation in 95% of people. 

That's real data from trials and now real life.

I've not heard of more under 45's dying than normal, what do you think is killing them?

[Ray Gin]

3 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

That's not the same as saying it's definitive though.

 

The percentage of surviving Covid as a 27 year is higher than 95% without the vaccine yet she still sadly passed away so whilst statistically it's likely she'd have survived, she might not have.

 

What's the percentage of surviving Covid after taking a vaccine?

 

[Taffin]

5 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

What's the percentage of surviving Covid after taking a vaccine?

 

 

No idea. Quite a random question.

 

[Ray Gin]

2 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

No idea. Quite a random question.

 

 

Not really when you're talking about the chances of someone surviving if they'd taken the vaccine.

You say there's a 95% survival rate among unvaccinated 27 years olds. What's the survival rate amongst vaccinated ones?

 

Edited November 24, 2021 by Ray Gin

[Rocco_Jambo]

5 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

The vaccines are proven to prevent death and hospitalisation in 95% of people. 

That's real data from trials and now real life.

I've not heard of more under 45's dying than normal, what do you think is killing them?

 

I presume given that covid is on their death certificates that it's covid. Which is relatively surprising if the vaccines are proven in real life to prevent 95% of people dying.

[Taffin]

Just now, Ray Gin said:

 

Not really when you're talking about the chances of someone surviving if they'd taken the vaccine.

 

 

Unless it's a 100% survival rate then you can't say for certain she'd have survived. I'm 100% certain that it's not 100% if that helps. What the exact number is, I don't know.

[JudyJudyJudy]

g

 

29 minutes ago, Rocco_Jambo said:

Very tragic. Also pretty distasteful for the Doctor to effectively guess that she would still be here if she had got the vaccine.

 

 

The problem is its a half story . It often is with those younger covid deaths.  The Dr should not have said that cause he' doesn't know that for sure. No one does in fact.  

 

 

[Taffin]

2 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

Not really when you're talking about the chances of someone surviving if they'd taken the vaccine.

You say there's a 95% survival rate among unvaccinated 27 years olds. What's the survival rate amongst vaccinated ones?

 

 

Just saw your edited post after I'd posted.

 

Regards the bit in bold, I don't say that.

[Victorian]

What is it when you can't accept without whataboutery that the overwhelming chances are that a proved vaccine would have resulted in survival?  No it can't be proved in absolutes but so what?  

 

Anyone can understand odds and probabilities.  

[Ray Gin]

2 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Just saw your edited post after I'd posted.

 

Regards the bit in bold, I don't say that.

 

Ok, "higher than 95%"

 

I'd guess it'll be pretty damn close to 100% among the vaccinated and that the doc's comments are completely fair.

 

[Taffin]

4 minutes ago, Victorian said:

What is it when you can't accept without whataboutery that the overwhelming chances are that a proved vaccine would have resulted in survival?  No it can't be proved in absolutes but so what?  

 

Anyone can understand odds and probabilities.  

 

3 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

Ok, "higher than 95%"

 

I'd guess it'll be pretty damn close to 100% among the vaccinated and that the doc's comments are completely fair.

 

 

It's pretty damn close to 100% without the vaccine too.

 

Fair enough. Maybe if we told people you're definitely not going to die from Covid if you get vaccinated it might improve uptake in the younger age groups.

 

Personally I'd find that to be misleading but different strokes for different folks and all that.

Edited November 24, 2021 by Taffin

[Rocco_Jambo]

A person doesn't understand odds and probabilities if they think a 95% percentage effectiveness means that percentage applies to everyone and isn't an average based on a collective.

[JudyJudyJudy]

5 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

 

It's pretty damn close to 100% without the vaccine too.

 

Fair enough. Maybe if we told people you're definitely not going to die from Covid if you get vaccinated it might improve uptake in the younger age groups.

 

Personally I'd find that to be misleading but different strokes for different folks and all that.

99.98 % just checked * unvaccinated 

 

 

This is an interesting link too.  

 

 

Coronavirus Dashboard (ncov2019.live)

Edited November 24, 2021 by JamesM48

[Alex Kintner]

1 hour ago, Nucky Thompson said:

Unvaccinated young lassie from Brechin aged 27 dies from Covid

 

COVID-19: Unvaccinated mother, 27, dies with coronavirus as her father calls for fines for people who refuse jab | UK News | Sky News

 

 

 

 

Awful 😞 
 

She had asthma which makes the decision not to get vaccinated even stranger.

[Victorian]

1 minute ago, Taffin said:

 

 

It's pretty damn close to 100% without the vaccine too.

 

Fair enough. Maybe if we told people you're definitely not going to die from Covid if you get vaccinated it might improve uptake in the younger age groups.

 

Personally I'd find that to be misleading but different strokes for different folks and all that.

 

Not quite what you're portraying.  The vaccine is very effective at preventing acute illness.  It's misleading to compare the vaccine's overall efficacy to the overall survival rate from infection.

 

Still,  if people are still determined to question the benefits that vaccines are providing then they'll probably never accept that they provide a benefit.  Not without the never ending journey around the houses trying to prove a point about it not being a 100% guarantee that everyone knows and accepts anyway.

[Victorian]

5 minutes ago, Rocco_Jambo said:

A person doesn't understand odds and probabilities if they think a 95% percentage effectiveness means that percentage applies to everyone and isn't an average based on a collective.

 

Said nobody.  People know it's calculated and presented that way.

 

 

[luckydug]

43 minutes ago, Rocco_Jambo said:

Very tragic. Also pretty distasteful for the Doctor to effectively guess that she would still be here if she had got the vaccine.

If he's a doctor he's got the right to express his medical opinion. 

 

[Taffin]

Just now, Victorian said:

 

Not quite what you're portraying.  The vaccine is very effective at preventing acute illness.  It's misleading to compare the vaccine's overall efficacy to the overall survival rate from infection.

 

Still,  if people are still determined to question the benefits that vaccines are providing then they'll probably never accept that they provide a benefit.  Not without the never ending journey around the houses trying to prove a point about it not being a 100% guarantee that everyone knows and accepts anyway.

 

 

Where have I questioned the benefits of the vaccine?

 

I'm questioning the merits of a doctor telling people their dead relatives would still be alive if they'd had the vaccine.

 

Of course if she'd taken it it would have drastically increased her chances, overwhelmingly so. That isn't a certainty though, unless it was 100% then somebody has to die despite being vaccinated...it's possible it could have been her...just as it was possible she bucked the overall survival rate.

[Rocco_Jambo]

Just now, Victorian said:

 

Said nobody.  People know it's calculated and presented that way.

 

 

 

So nobody knows what the chances are that she would have survived had she had the vaccine and the Doctor is giving his best educated guess as fact.

 

Thanks for clarifying. You must have had a couple of wanks earlier to improve your temperament. Well done.

 

[Victorian]

Just now, Taffin said:

 

 

Where have I questioned the benefits of the vaccine?

 

I'm questioning the merits of a doctor telling people their dead relatives would still be alive if they'd had the vaccine.

 

Of course if she'd taken it it would have drastically increased her chances, overwhelmingly so. That isn't a certainty though, unless it was 100% then somebody has to die despite being vaccinated...it's possible it could have been her...just as it was possible she bucked the overall survival rate.

 

Does it matter?  What harm is there to anyone that a doctor used inaccurate language of certainty instead of pandering to the pedantry?  It can be viewed as an opinion by him as an individual.  Harmless.  

[Victorian]

2 minutes ago, Rocco_Jambo said:

 

So nobody knows what the chances are that she would have survived had she had the vaccine and the Doctor is giving his best educated guess as fact.

 

Thanks for clarifying. You must have had a couple of wanks earlier to improve your temperament. Well done.

 

 

Fantastic patter.  You must be bursting with pride.

[Nucky Thompson]

2 minutes ago, Rocco_Jambo said:

 

So nobody knows what the chances are that she would have survived had she had the vaccine and the Doctor is giving his best educated guess as fact.

 

Thanks for clarifying. You must have had a couple of wanks earlier to improve your temperament. Well done.

 

It's like backing a horse at 1-20. You've got an overwhelming chance that's it's going to win, but there's still a slight chance that it won't.

 

[Savage Vince]

1 hour ago, Nucky Thompson said:

 

It's not like Boris or Nicola put on a white coat, went into a lab and messed about with some chemicals 

 

 

 

😳

[Victorian]

I think boris has put on a white coat,  went into a lab and messed about with some chemicals.  

[Taffin]

7 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Does it matter?  What harm is there to anyone that a doctor used inaccurate language of certainty instead of pandering to the pedantry?  It can be viewed as an opinion by him as an individual.  Harmless.  

 

I think doctors expressing certainties when they know that's not the case is dangerous. A vaccinated 27 year who reads that article will now think they can't die from Covid.

Edited November 24, 2021 by Taffin

[Rocco_Jambo]

Just now, Nucky Thompson said:

It's like backing a horse at 1-20. You've got an overwhelming chance that's it's going to win, but there's still a slight chance that it won't.

 

 

It really isn't.

 

It's like backing a horse in a race where everyone is the same odds then finding out when the race starts that some are racefit, some have diabetes, some have had 3 heart attacks, some are 8 stone overweight and some have asthma.

[Ray Gin]

.

 

Edited November 24, 2021 by Ray Gin
can't be arsed

[Victorian]

1 minute ago, Taffin said:

 

I think doctors expressing certainties when they know that's not the case is dangerous. A vaccinated 27 year who reads that article will now think they can't die from Covid.

 

No they wont!  That's some stretch.

[Taffin]

1 minute ago, Victorian said:

 

No they wont!  That's some stretch.

 

So the certainty only applies in her case...but would be wrong for others to extend that to themselves?

 

Anyway this is a stupid debate.

 

I think the doctor was wrong to state what he did. You don't. We both agree she'd have been better off taking the vaccine either way.

[Dennis Denuto]

How do we know with any certainty what the doctor actually said?

[Victorian]

1 minute ago, Taffin said:

 

So the certainty only applies in her case...but would be wrong for others to extend that to themselves?

 

Anyway this is a stupid debate.

 

I think the doctor was wrong to state what he did. You don't. We both agree she'd have been better off taking the vaccine either way.

 

The last bit is the only relevant bit and worth bothering about.

Edited November 24, 2021 by Victorian

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, Dennis Denuto said:

How do we know with any certainty what the doctor actually said?

 

Well that's the other thing, her emotional old dad's saying it, that doesn't mean he isn't paraphrasing, or adding his own certainty to it.

[JudyJudyJudy]

27 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

 

Where have I questioned the benefits of the vaccine?

 

I'm questioning the merits of a doctor telling people their dead relatives would still be alive if they'd had the vaccine.

 

Of course if she'd taken it it would have drastically increased her chances, overwhelmingly so. That isn't a certainty though, unless it was 100% then somebody has to die despite being vaccinated...it's possible it could have been her...just as it was possible she bucked the overall survival rate.

Maybe we should get a second opinion from another Dr who might have a completely different view.  This human interest story is being spread deliberately to give the frighteners to healthy young people.  She had around 8 or 9 months to get the vaccine yet was " too busy" with her kids ? I don't really buy that. its being twisted by the dad. That's my perspective. 

16 minutes ago, Rocco_Jambo said:

 

It really isn't.

 

It's like backing a horse in a race where everyone is the same odds then finding out when the race starts that some are racefit, some have diabetes, some have had 3 heart attacks, some are 8 stone overweight and some have asthma.

Good analogy. 

8 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

So the certainty only applies in her case...but would be wrong for others to extend that to themselves?

 

Anyway this is a stupid debate.

 

I think the doctor was wrong to state what he did. You don't. We both agree she'd have been better off taking the vaccine either way.

I agree too but its voluntary and should remain so. She made a choice which may have contributed to her death. No one will ever know for certain.

[Victorian]

29 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Maybe we should get a second opinion from another Dr who might have a completely different view.  This human interest story is being spread deliberately to give the frighteners to healthy young people.  She had around 8 or 9 months to get the vaccine yet was " too busy" with her kids ? I don't really buy that. its being twisted by the dad. That's my perspective. 

 

 

Vile stuff.  

[JudyJudyJudy]

8 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Vile stuff.  

 

[Alex Kintner]

29 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Vile stuff.  

Unsurprising given the poster.

 

I’m sure that’s what the bereaved father’s priority is rather than trying to comfort three heartbroken grandchildren.

[Victorian]

2 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:

Unsurprising given the poster.

 

I’m sure that’s what the bereaved father’s priority is rather than trying to comfort three heartbroken grandchildren.

 

Sadly true.  Not sure what's happened to him.  Used to be so level headed.

[JudyJudyJudy]

24 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Sadly true.  Not sure what's happened to him.  Used to be so level headed.

Oh he loves a pile on that AK so he does.  Vicious. Cant wait to get his oar in. Glad i hardly see any of the trash he writes. 

[Alex Kintner]

30 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Sadly true.  Not sure what's happened to him.  Used to be so level headed.

Never noticed him until recently so can’t comment on whether the spraffing and venom is a recent thing or not. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[Alex Kintner]

3 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Oh he loves a pile on that AK so he does.  Vicious. Cant wait to get his oar in. Glad i hardly see any of the trash he writes. 

Selfie?

[Japan Jambo]

6 hours ago, Victorian said:

See the useless twat Spaffer is trying to suggest possible future vaccine supplies from Valneva.  That will be Valneva who they reneged on a contract with and lied about their trial results.

 

Reneged on agreements,  lies and the ubiquitous u-turn.  All in a day's work at Peppa Pig World.

 

Kate Bingham was talking about this on the radio this morning. Top notch lab based in the UK, sort of business we should have been working with.

[Victorian]

11 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Oh he loves a pile on that AK so he does.  Vicious. Cant wait to get his oar in. Glad i hardly see any of the trash he writes. 

 

Makes vile comment about a grieving father.  Called out.  Cries like a baby about pile ons.

 

Seems about normal.

[JudyJudyJudy]

Just now, Victorian said:

 

Makes vile comment about a grieving father.  Called out.  Cries like a baby about pile ons.

 

Seems about normal.

Just because you keep repeating its a " vile " comment . It doesn't necessarily mean it is. I know you do tend to  believe your own hype that everything you write is gospel .  But your wrong.    ps IM certainly not crying . You  are confusing me with someone who is giving a **** . 

[Victorian]

Just now, JamesM48 said:

Just because you keep repeating its a " vile " comment . It doesn't necessarily mean it is. I know you do tend to  believe your own hype that everything you write is gospel .  But your wrong.    ps IM certainly not crying . You  are confusing me with someone who is giving a **** . 

 

Vile creature.

[Alex Kintner]

8 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Makes vile comment about a grieving father.  Called out.  Cries like a baby about pile ons.

 

Seems about normal.

Vile person denies vile comment. Day follows night…

[Konrad von Carstein]

The three of you need to get in a room, bare chested and sort this out like men.

 

(Massage oil optional)