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Scottish independence and devolution superthread


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Exactly this!   I was thinking about the naysayers and then thought about WHY a movement would want to lead a nation into independence which would ultimately lead to financial ruin, expulsion from c

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Was a good turn out. Was there with the family. I'd say ten thousand.

 

Some unionists turned up from the BNP - about 3 fitba thugs with Union Jacks. That sums it up - a huge swathe of positive people marching for independence and the face of the out of date Union represented by the violence of some thick nazis.

 

Independence is the only option. All this nonsense about the 'British family of nations'?? Eh? Who wants to live with their ma past the age of 17?

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What a rubbish turn out and it must be very embarrassing for the pro independence mob.

 

Better Together.

 

 

Not as embarrassing as your grasp of English.

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Romanov Stole My Pension

Was a good turn out. Was there with the family. I'd say ten thousand.

 

Some unionists turned up from the BNP - about 3 fitba thugs with Union Jacks. That sums it up - a huge swathe of positive people marching for independence and the face of the out of date Union represented by the violence of some thick nazis.

 

Independence is the only option. All this nonsense about the 'British family of nations'?? Eh? Who wants to live with their ma past the age of 17?

 

I saw them as I was walking along Princes Street. Pretty cringeworthy stuff really. Heard them asking where 'the hibs boys' had gone, so no doubt they're some of ours :huh:

 

Also just to add, I don't have any strong opinions on independence either way, but these guys were embarrassing themselves.

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Was passing so had a listen at Princes Street.

 

"Scotland WILL declare peace on the world" Colin Fox.

 

"No Scottish troops to be sent to ANY war"

 

Whilst open minded still, too many unaswered questions about tax,scottish pound,border control.

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FFS- you all as grumpy as wee eck :down:

 

Tott, I'm so crabbit cos I spent my youth listening to Crass. :thumbsup:

 

Do you think guitars and microphones are just **** toys?

 

Steve Ig is for our freedom btw!

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Was passing so had a listen at Princes Street.

 

"Scotland WILL declare peace on the world" Colin Fox.

 

"No Scottish troops to be sent to ANY war"

 

Whilst open minded still, too many unaswered questions about tax,scottish pound,border control.

 

 

Not to be contentious but I don't see border control being an issue. It isn't in Ireland despite the problems they still have. I've also spent many happy times in the past few years driving around Europe and through many open borders. Some of them in nations smaller than us or equivalent to us - Belgium and Luxembourg for example.

 

I'd just ask, why not? Even under the act of Union, we ran our education, churches and law by ourselves. Under devolution we run much more by ourselves. Under 'devo max' we'd run everything bar 'defence' by ourselves.

 

Does that mean that we're fit to run everything by ourselves apart from one expensive area that we leave to.... William Hague or yon other Tory??!!!

 

If everyone from Iceland and Norway to Belgium and Luxembourg can do without the Tories and a massive war budget then we can to.

 

Btw, I'm don't count myself as a 'nat'. After independence I could see myself voting for a newly progressive Labour Party if they ever came round to embracing self determination.

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Not to be contentious but I don't see border control being an issue. It isn't in Ireland despite the problems they still have. I've also spent many happy times in the past few years driving around Europe and through many open borders. Some of them in nations smaller than us or equivalent to us - Belgium and Luxembourg for example.

 

I'd just ask, why not? Even under the act of Union, we ran our education, churches and law by ourselves. Under devolution we run much more by ourselves. Under 'devo max' we'd run everything bar 'defence' by ourselves.

 

Does that mean that we're fit to run everything by ourselves apart from one expensive area that we leave to.... William Hague or yon other Tory??!!!

 

If everyone from Iceland and Norway to Belgium and Luxembourg can do without the Tories and a massive war budget then we can to.

 

Btw, I'm don't count myself as a 'nat'. After independence I could see myself voting for a newly progressive Labour Party if they ever came round to embracing self determination.

 

The uncomfortable problem for many unionists is that they genuinely find it hard to answer that question.

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What a rubbish turn out and it must be very embarrassing for the pro independence mob.

 

Better Together.

 

This is from an English regional website (i.e. one with no particular agenda), the first that came up in the 'news' section of Google when I stuck in 'independance march':

 

Thousands at pro-independence march

13:05, Sep 22 2012

Thousands of people have taken to the streets of Edinburgh in one of the largest pro-independence marches the city has seen.

The Meadows was a sea of saltire and lion rampant flags as people from all over the country gathered for the march supporting a yes vote in the 2014 referendum.

SNP leader Alex Salmond is among around 20 speakers who will address the crowd later in Princes Street Gardens.

Many people attending the rally said they would not have supported independence a year ago but had changed their minds.

June Sutherland, 64, from Broxburn in West Lothian, said: "The reason for me changing my mind is the UK Government. They're shutting down all the air bases. Once they started hitting our soldiers and our airmen, that was enough for me. I didn't expect the turnout today. I'm proud to be here."

 

Sounds like an embarrassing turnout, right enough :lol:

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The uncomfortable problem for many unionists is that they genuinely find it hard to answer that question.

 

That's just it. No Unionist has given a sound reason for maintaining the Union - especially when we're in another recession and the Union hasn't saved us. The UK debt is something like ?900billion - an eyewatering amount especially when compared to the wealth in Norway and Finland. Even Iceland and Ireland are more prosperous than the UK.

 

So, aye, why not?

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Was a good turn out. Was there with the family. I'd say ten thousand.

 

Some unionists turned up from the BNP - about 3 fitba thugs with Union Jacks. That sums it up - a huge swathe of positive people marching for independence and the face of the out of date Union represented by the violence of some thick nazis.

 

Independence is the only option. All this nonsense about the 'British family of nations'?? Eh? Who wants to live with their ma past the age of 17?

 

It's not the only option, it's not even an option, let the SNP declare their stance -what is the question? What are the policies? When are we entering the euro? - the referendum will be a stunning failure and hopefully stop this nonsense once and for all.

 

Statement like 'scotland will declare peace on the world' total fantasy..

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I'm still sitting on the fence, but what I don't understand is why if as we are constantly told, we are a drain on Westminster and spend more than we make, why are the English politicians desperate to keep us together? Is it sheer benevolence on their behalf? I'd be surprised of that's the case.

 

Anyone able to give me a sensible answer on that?

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This is from an English regional website (i.e. one with no particular agenda), the first that came up in the 'news' section of Google when I stuck in 'independance march':

 

Thousands at pro-independence march

13:05, Sep 22 2012

Thousands of people have taken to the streets of Edinburgh in one of the largest pro-independence marches the city has seen.

The Meadows was a sea of saltire and lion rampant flags as people from all over the country gathered for the march supporting a yes vote in the 2014 referendum.

SNP leader Alex Salmond is among around 20 speakers who will address the crowd later in Princes Street Gardens.

Many people attending the rally said they would not have supported independence a year ago but had changed their minds.

June Sutherland, 64, from Broxburn in West Lothian, said: "The reason for me changing my mind is the UK Government. They're shutting down all the air bases. Once they started hitting our soldiers and our airmen, that was enough for me. I didn't expect the turnout today. I'm proud to be here."

 

Sounds like an embarrassing turnout, right enough :lol:

 

Posted 5 hours ago, funny how they could get the story out before the March even started? Poor journalism, read the papers tomorrow.

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I'm still undecided on independence and don't have any ideological views on it either way. Am certainly in favour of more powers for the Scottish Parliament, however i'm not convinced that outright independence would be to our long-term benefit. So many laws stem from Europe and as it is we have a bigger influence as part of the UK, though there are certain areas such as fisheries where we should be in the lead as opposed to Westminster.

 

If we do leave the UK then we're going to inherit an eye-watering share of the national debt, and we're not, no matter what people say, going to just walk off with all of the oil.

 

All that said, it's hard to argue with the line of the interests of Scotland being best served by the people that live here.

 

To go back to the march today, i actually think numbers of circa 7,000 (if correct) is actually a pretty poor turnout, and doesn't suggest a growing tide of opinion.

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Was passing so had a listen at Princes Street.

 

"Scotland WILL declare peace on the world" Colin Fox.

 

"No Scottish troops to be sent to ANY war"

 

Whilst open minded still, too many unaswered questions about tax,scottish pound,border control.

 

Why then would be paying for troops? :blink:

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Was a good turn out. Was there with the family. I'd say ten thousand.

 

Some unionists turned up from the BNP - about 3 fitba thugs with Union Jacks. That sums it up - a huge swathe of positive people marching for independence and the face of the out of date Union represented by the violence of some thick nazis.

 

Independence is the only option. All this nonsense about the 'British family of nations'?? Eh? Who wants to live with their ma past the age of 17?

Good to hear that.

 

As for the OP - :cornette:

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Posted 5 hours ago, funny how they could get the story out before the March even started? Poor journalism, read the papers tomorrow.

 

March assembled from 11.00am.

 

Maths and English spelling not a strong point amongst Unionists then?

 

Btw, what are your points for maintaining the Union. I'd really like to hear some good arguments.

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Arnold Rothstein

March assembled from 11.00am.

 

Maths and English spelling not a strong point amongst Unionists then?

 

Btw, what are your points for maintaining the Union. I'd really like to hear some good arguments.

 

Got any for pulling out of it? Genuine question. Citing examples of small countries who cope is not a reason by the way.

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Got any for pulling out of it? Genuine question. Citing examples of small countries who cope is not a reason by the way.

Independence is the first point. The ability to govern ourselves. Why should we be 'dependent' on anyone else? It's a bit like previously stated - an old person living at home which is quite sad.

Edited by Foxy Knoxy
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Italian Lambretta

I take it they showed because several IRA supporters were seen marching with their James Connolly banner and Irish Tricolour flags in the parade? :whistling:

 

Was a good turn out. Was there with the family. I'd say ten thousand.

 

Some unionists turned up from the BNP - about 3 fitba thugs with Union Jacks. That sums it up - a huge swathe of positive people marching for independence and the face of the out of date Union represented by the violence of some thick nazis.

 

Independence is the only option. All this nonsense about the 'British family of nations'?? Eh? Who wants to live with their ma past the age of 17?

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Was a good turn out. Was there with the family. I'd say ten thousand.

 

Some unionists turned up from the BNP - about 3 fitba thugs with Union Jacks. That sums it up - a huge swathe of positive people marching for independence and the face of the out of date Union represented by the violence of some thick nazis.

 

Independence is the only option. All this nonsense about the 'British family of nations'?? Eh? Who wants to live with their ma past the age of 17?

 

Why did you think they were from the BNP?

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I take it they showed because several IRA supporters were seen marching with their James Connolly banner and Irish Tricolour flags in the parade? :whistling:

 

Interesting. An utter disgrace if true.

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Italian Lambretta

We would all like to know that as well. Maybe Alex Salmond can take the time to explain why the Provisional IRA led a parade on Scottish Independence.

 

You know the terrorists who want a United Ireland :whistling:

 

The James Connolly brigade led the march, can someone tell me why?

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Was a good turn out. Was there with the family. I'd say ten thousand.

 

Some unionists turned up from the BNP - about 3 fitba thugs with Union Jacks. That sums it up - a huge swathe of positive people marching for independence and the face of the out of date Union represented by the violence of some thick nazis.

 

Independence is the only option. All this nonsense about the 'British family of nations'?? Eh? Who wants to live with their ma past the age of 17?

Nearer 5000 and the UNION. fought as one to fight the Nazis

The far right might think they own the flag but they don't

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Italian Lambretta

Like what?

 

Appointing Martin McGuinness and Gerry Kelly as campaign managers?

 

Early days, two years to go to the vote and Eck will have a few tricks up his sleeve.

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Like what?

 

Appointing Martin McGuinness and Gerry Kelly as campaign managers?

 

 

Good friends of the Queen and Duke of Edinburgh I understand. :)

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The James Connolly brigade led the march, can someone tell me why?

 

Would love to hear an answer to this one but it seems to have gone quiet..............

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MacDonald Jardine

That's just it. No Unionist has given a sound reason for maintaining the Union - especially when we're in another recession and the Union hasn't saved us. The UK debt is something like ?900billion - an eyewatering amount especially when compared to the wealth in Norway and Finland. Even Iceland and Ireland are more prosperous than the UK.

 

So, aye, why not?

 

is this the Ireland the UK bailed out a few months ago?

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I think Alba Gu Brath needs to replace his supporting documentation as it appears somewhat out of date.

 

Salmond sees Scots in 'arc of prosperity' 2006

PETER MACMAHON

 

AN INDEPENDENT Scotland would become part of a northern European "arc of prosperity", the Scottish National Party promised yesterday.

 

Alex Salmond, the SNP leader, claimed that Ireland, Iceland and Norway demonstrated that small independent countries were amongst the richest in the world.

 

Mr Salmond said that all three "young countries" had become independent in the 20th century and moved from being less prosperous than Scotland to being more economically successful.

 

Making his case for reduced business taxation, the SNP leader said that all three of these northern European nations had lower corporation taxes than Scotland had as part of the UK.

 

Norway, the second most prosperous country in the world, charged businesses 28 per cent corporation tax. Ireland, the fifth richest country, had a rate of 12.5 per cent and in Iceland, the sixth in the world prosperity league, the rate was 18 per cent.

 

He cited Iceland's increase in spending on research and development, Norway's creation of a ?110.9 billion "future generations fund" and Ireland's booming financial sector as examples that an independent Scotland should follow.

 

Mr Salmond said: "Scotland can be part of northern Europe's arc of prosperity.

 

"There are three countries there which are all in the top six wealthiest in the world. In contrast, devolved Scotland is in 18th place and the UK as a whole is only 14th.

 

"With distant London in charge, Scotland will just keep slipping further behind."

 

However, a spokesman for Scottish Labour dismissed the claims, saying: "Until the SNP explains where the axe will fall to pay for the ?11 billion cost of independence, nobody will take them seriously."

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dobmisterdobster

The key to getting a Yes result is convincing a significant portion of the Devo-max crowd to vote yes.

(Devo-max itself is never going to be on the ballot paper because it isn't a viable option.)

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You're not voting for the SNP at the referendum though!!!!!

 

You're voting to give your country the chance to rule, lead, govern, protect and serve itself. To be a proper country. A country to be proud of. A country that will give it's future citizens a chance to flourish.

 

Or alternatively keep the status quo which is working oh-so-well...

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You're not voting for the SNP at the referendum though!!!!!

 

You're voting to give your country the chance to rule, lead, govern, protect and serve itself. To be a proper country. A country to be proud of. A country that will give it's future citizens a chance to flourish.

 

Or alternatively keep the status quo which is working oh-so-well...

 

or alternatively join the eu.. which is working well, with economic policy defined by the Germans To suit the Germans.. How's that working out for the Irish and the Greeks. frying pan into fire springs to mind

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You're not voting for the SNP at the referendum though!!!!!

 

You're voting to give your country the chance to rule, lead, govern, protect and serve itself. To be a proper country. A country to be proud of. A country that will give it's future citizens a chance to flourish.

 

Or alternatively keep the status quo which is working oh-so-well...

And how do we protect ourselves it'll cost money to set up an army airforce and navy to protect one of the longest coastlines in Europe- along with the oil rigs ?

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I'll vote for independence, but I don't think these marches do anyone any favours. They could be perceived as an embarrassing fringe or extremist movement.

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Was passing so had a listen at Princes Street.

 

"Scotland WILL declare peace on the world" Colin Fox.

 

"No Scottish troops to be sent to ANY war"

 

Whilst open minded still, too many unaswered questions about tax,scottish pound,border control.

We won't have an army !!!!!!!

 

On a separate question if this was either 1914 or 1939 would Colin fox been for or against going to war ?

Edited by 3fingersreid
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We won't have an army !!!!!!!

 

On a separate question if this was either 1914 or 1939 would Colin fox been for or against going to war ?

 

Hmmm....does Godwin's law apply here?

Edited by Smack
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