Brexit Deal agreed ( updated )

[NANOJAMBO]

1 hour ago, The Frenchman Returns said:

Not convinced that Brexit will prevent a lot of us moving abroad. For example a Greek Golden visa requires a purchase of a real estate property worth at least €250,000. This appears to give you five-year residency, as well as your immediate family members, as well as free travel in the Schengen Zone.

 

If I am wrong then years of hopes, dreams and planning have just gone up in smoke in my household. 

 

 

Have you looked at the cost of medical insurance ? I have friends in Spain who say they now have to pay circa £300 per month because the ENIC card is about to disappear. 

[Unknown user]

4 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

Have you looked at the cost of medical insurance ? I have friends in Spain who say they now have to pay circa £300 per month because the ENIC card is about to disappear. 

The British grey drain on Spain's health service has been a bugbear of theirs for many years now. They're not going to be gentle on this one.

[GinRummy]

6 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

It's a mixed picture. Self employed are among the 3 million  who have had nothing. 

 

Your madness is lifeline income for a lot of people.  

I maybe wasn’t very clear. I’m more than happy that employees abs self employed have been helped. It’s not much good to employees who will just find themselves unemployed at the end of furlough. I’m also pleased that self employed have been helped. What I’m unhappy about is the lack of help given to SME’s who happen to be limited companies. Many small businesses have owners who have not incorporated their business and they have received large sums of cash as they are self employed. If they had incorporated their business they would have received nothing. Treating Joe the Joiner in the same way as large multinational companies is fundamentally unfair. 

[Enzo Chiefo]

9 hours ago, NANOJAMBO said:

Have you looked at the cost of medical insurance ? I have friends in Spain who say they now have to pay circa £300 per month because the ENIC card is about to disappear. 

The good news for your friends is that the EHIC health care cards will still apply.

[Ainsley Harriott]

On 24/12/2020 at 23:43, NANOJAMBO said:

I don't live in Scotland (yet), I'm not a fan of NS or the SNP but I know and you know those words have absolutely no legal weight or meaning whatsoever. 

They carry no more weight than "dying in a ditch", "oven ready deal" ,  "no deal is better than a bad deal" or "£300M per day/week/whatever  for the NHS" painted on the side of a big red bus. 

Ok then maybe if she had the legal authority to call a binding referendum but she doesn't. 

[kila]

4 minutes ago, Ainsley Harriott said:

Ok then maybe if she had the legal authority to call a binding referendum but she doesn't. 

‘The will of the people’ was the Brexit line despite it being marginal and mostly a pack of lies. 
 

The 2021 elections will determine the will of the Scots. A massive SNP majority simply cannot be ignored.

 

[Norm]

48 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

The good news for your friends is that the EHIC health care cards will still apply.

That's not much help if they live over there. 

[Seymour M Hersh]

Just now, kila said:

‘The will of the people’ was the Brexit line despite it being marginal and mostly a pack of lies. 
 

The 2021 elections will determine the will of the Scots. A massive SNP majority simply cannot be ignored.

 

 

It simply can and will be ignored should it happen. 

[Norm]

5 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

It simply can and will be ignored should it happen. 

If they do, it is literally just kicking the can down the road until independence. A well fought campaign now for pro-UK will have a chance. Push HARD the fact there is no guarantee of being in the EU should Scotland leave, coupled with all the shit in the air just now with Covid and Brexit, and I can see indy failing. Fail a 2nd time, well, there really is no coming back from that. It'd kill independence for a generation at least. And for real this time. 

 

But keep telling folk "No, you're not allowed. We won't let you.", well, that kind of thing tends to rustle people's jimmies. 

[Seymour M Hersh]

3 minutes ago, Norm said:

If they do, it is literally just kicking the can down the road until independence. A well fought campaign now for pro-UK will have a chance. Push HARD the fact there is no guarantee of being in the EU should Scotland leave, coupled with all the shit in the air just now with Covid and Brexit, and I can see indy failing. Fail a 2nd time, well, there really is no coming back from that. It'd kill independence for a generation at least. And for real this time. 

 

But keep telling folk "No, you're not allowed. We won't let you.", well, that kind of thing tends to rustle people's jimmies. 

 

It doesn't take anything to rustle the jimmies of a party based on manufactured grievances. Their jimmies remain in a permanently rustled state. 

Edited December 26, 2020 by Seymour M Hersh

[manaliveits105]

What will happen from 2021?

The deal on the future relationship between the EU and the UK was announced on 24 December. It says that all EHIC cards issued before the end of 2020 will be valid until their expiry date.

After that, the UK will issue a new card. The UK government says the new card will be called the UK Global Health Insurance Card (GHIC), but there are no further details yet on how to obtain it.

Like EHIC, the new card will cover chronic or existing illnesses and routine maternity care as well as emergencies.

The Brexit agreement says any specialised treatment, such as dialysis or cancer treatment, "must be subject to a prior agreement between the insured person and the unit providing the treatment" to ensure the treatment is available.

The government's advice, however, still says you should buy travel insurance with healthcare cover before you go on holiday.

 

 

BLOODY TOARIES how dare they make arrangements !

[pablo]

17 minutes ago, kila said:

‘The will of the people’ was the Brexit line despite it being marginal and mostly a pack of lies. 
 

The 2021 elections will determine the will of the Scots. A massive SNP majority simply cannot be ignored.

 

 

Well it can, and more importantly it will be ignored. The UK will be concentrating on making the free trade agreement with the EU work, while establishing more free trade agreements with anyone it can agree a deal with. It's not going to entertain a Scottish Independence referendum anytime soon.

 

I agree that the UK couldn't say no forever, but I wouldn't be holding your breath if you're hoping something will happen within the next 5 years at least.

[Norm]

2 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

It doesn't take anything to rustle the jimmies of a party based on manufactured grievances. Their jimmies remain in a permanently rustled state. 

But that assumes SNP fans are the only ones who would vote indy. There's a very sizeable chunk of folk, who aren't fans of the SNP, waiting to be convinced by either side. These are the ones that need to be won over. 

 

Telling these folk "No. You're not allowed. We won't let you." is far more likely to engender an "Oh, ****ing really? Ye think so, aye?" attitude. I was a reluctant last minute Yes last time. My mate was a hard core No. 

 

Both of us, this time, will be happy to mark a yes box. Being dragged out of Europe by England the big decider. 

 

However, I can easily imagine both of us going to "No" if pro-UK pushed the benefits and stability of being in the UK during an absolute economic shitstorm with no guarantee of Europe. 

 

But the longer we keep being told "No. We won't let you." like a child or someone with an abusive partner, well, eventually you'll just go "**** you. We're leaving." 

[Cade]

Just imagine if the UK had to ask permission from the EU to hold the Brexit vote in the first place and the EU said no.

 

That's where we are in the "democratic" UK.

[kila]

8 minutes ago, Norm said:

But that assumes SNP fans are the only ones who would vote indy. There's a very sizeable chunk of folk, who aren't fans of the SNP, waiting to be convinced by either side. These are the ones that need to be won over. 

 

Telling these folk "No. You're not allowed. We won't let you." is far more likely to engender an "Oh, ****ing really? Ye think so, aye?" attitude. I was a reluctant last minute Yes last time. My mate was a hard core No. 

 

Both of us, this time, will be happy to mark a yes box. Being dragged out of Europe by England the big decider. 

 

However, I can easily imagine both of us going to "No" if pro-UK pushed the benefits and stability of being in the UK during an absolute economic shitstorm with no guarantee of Europe. 

 

But the longer we keep being told "No. We won't let you." like a child or someone with an abusive partner, well, eventually you'll just go "**** you. We're leaving." 

 

That's pretty well put.

[Norm]

Just now, Cade said:

Just imagine if the UK had to ask permission from the EU to hold the Brexit vote in the first place and the EU said no.

 

That's where we are in the "democratic" UK.

Exactly. Once we eventually got one, it would have been a landslide for Brexit. ****, I'd have voted for it in that instance. 

 

Telling people they're not allowed to do stuff generally creates the attitude of "We'll ****ing see about that." 

 

Contrary to the thread on here, the SNP are growing. The key for any pro-UK group is to win over the guys in the middle. Telling them "We don't care what you think about indy because we're just not going to let you anyway" is not a good tactic. 

 

In my view anyway. 

[frankblack]

13 minutes ago, Norm said:

If they do, it is literally just kicking the can down the road until independence. A well fought campaign now for pro-UK will have a chance. Push HARD the fact there is no guarantee of being in the EU should Scotland leave, coupled with all the shit in the air just now with Covid and Brexit, and I can see indy failing. Fail a 2nd time, well, there really is no coming back from that. It'd kill independence for a generation at least. And for real this time. 

 

But keep telling folk "No, you're not allowed. We won't let you.", well, that kind of thing tends to rustle people's jimmies. 

 

I suspect that the SNP have pissed off far too many people with their abject failures in management of the pandemic while imposing their puritan ideals using emergency powers.

 

Their refusal to stick to scientific advice over tier movement while choosing to ignore it for their planned 5 day xmas relaxation will burn them.

 

The main problem facing them however is that we may still be in lockdown when the Holyrood vote takes place and they will have a hard time convincing the electorate they can be trusted to continue in government let alone go into Indy 2 while Covid and Brexit are getting worked out.  Imagine the chaos to throw that in too - Scotland would end up back in the dark ages (Nicola is well on her way to taking us there with her covid shitshow as it is).

 

Its worth noting that the tories have made it crystal clear there will not be an Indy Ref vote during this WM term.  There is literally nothing the SNP can do about that.

[Ainsley Harriott]

39 minutes ago, kila said:

‘The will of the people’ was the Brexit line despite it being marginal and mostly a pack of lies. 
 

The 2021 elections will determine the will of the Scots. A massive SNP majority simply cannot be ignored.

 

But I can and it will.

[Norm]

9 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

I suspect that the SNP have pissed off far too many people with their abject failures in management of the pandemic while imposing their puritan ideals using emergency powers.

 

Their refusal to stick to scientific advice over tier movement while choosing to ignore it for their planned 5 day xmas relaxation will burn them.

 

The main problem facing them however is that we may still be in lockdown when the Holyrood vote takes place and they will have a hard time convincing the electorate they can be trusted to continue in government let alone go into Indy 2 while Covid and Brexit are getting worked out.  Imagine the chaos to throw that in too - Scotland would end up back in the dark ages (Nicola is well on her way to taking us there with her covid shitshow as it is).

 

Its worth noting that the tories have made it crystal clear there will not be an Indy Ref vote during this WM term.  There is literally nothing the SNP can do about that.

There is absolutely nothing the SNP can do about it, you're quite right. But that attitude of "Westminster can do as they please and we just have to suck it up" is just going to make the eventual indy referendum (because let's face it, it's NEVER going to go away) a stick on for Yes. 

 

If pro-UK want a United Kingdom, they'd be best letting it happen now with all the uncertainty. Folk are scared shitless. Out of Europe, out of UK, in a post-covid landscape, hell, I'd think twice. I'm sure a lot of other folk would too. 

 

But 5 years down the line, with a bit more stability and years of hearing Westminster say "No, you're not allowed to go"? That's only going to go one way. 

 

Regarding the drop in SNP voters after their Covid cock up, no party has excelled in their handling of it. If they're lucky, maybe Labour might claw some votes back but to be honest, going by here, I'm not sure the die hard Nats give a ****. It's indy or bust. 

 

Edited December 26, 2020 by Norm

[Mikey1874]

We need more from the Brexit supporters 

 

 

[Justin Z]

18 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

We need more from the Brexit supporters 

 

 

 

All the whining and crying in other threads about how no one holds the Scottish government to account from the same people who will now ignore what a garbage deal this is and how much long-term damage it's set the table for.

 

[pablo]

4 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

All the whining and crying in other threads about how no one holds the Scottish government to account from the same people who will now ignore what a garbage deal this is and how much long-term damage it's set the table for.

 

 

It's not really a shit deal though, that's why the likes of Sturgeon has been left with nothing to whine about other than potato seeds and student exchange programs.

 

I too wish Remain had won back in 2016.

[Mikey1874]

16 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

It's not really a shit deal though, that's why the likes of Sturgeon has been left with nothing to whine about other than potato seeds and student exchange programs.

 

I too wish Remain had won back in 2016.

 

You mean it has free movement of goods, services and people?

[Cade]

In the run-up to the 1997 General Election, New Labour promised a devolution vote in Scotland, Wales and NI. 

John Major said he'd not allow it.

 

And we all know what happened then.

Edited December 26, 2020 by Cade

[Lone Striker]

1 hour ago, Cade said:

Just imagine if the UK had to ask permission from the EU to hold the Brexit vote in the first place and the EU said no.

 

That's where we are in the "democratic" UK.

Interesting point.   However the EU is not a full political union - member states retain a fair bit of sovereignty so long as they obey the common rules set by the EU.    In that respect, it's not a million miles away from UK devolution situation - except that it came about the other way round.

[Mikey1874]

4 minutes ago, Cade said:

In the run-up to the 1997 General Election, New Labour promised a devolution vote in Scotland, Wales and NI. 

John Major said he'd not allow it.

 

And we all know what happened then.

 

Labour won a massive majority. And delivered its manifesto promises. In fact the vote happened just 4 months after the election. 

 

Major resigned. Not quite getting your point

 

It is possible the Johnson Government will fall and a Labour Government will allow a new referendum. 

[pablo]

1 minute ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

You mean it has free movement of goods, services and people?

 

For those who were in favour of Brexit it is a good deal. The UK can now trade freely with the EU, and anyone else it does a deal with.

[Mikey1874]

6 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

For those who were in favour of Brexit it is a good deal. The UK can now trade freely with the EU, and anyone else it does a deal with.

 

It is true the farming industry isn't immediately devastated by cheap imports. Not a a while anyway. 

 

Fish is basically the status quo - no immediate change so no gun boats either. 

 

No tariffs generally is great news. 

 

But lots of effort and expense for traders with customs declarations and an uncertain future for services. 

 

Obviously if you are not affected by all the free movement stuff too. 

[Francis Albert]

55 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

All the whining and crying in other threads about how no one holds the Scottish government to account from the same people who will now ignore what a garbage deal this is and how much long-term damage it's set the table for.

 

To be fair the NYT is about as open minded and impartial on this topic as the Guardian.

[Francis Albert]

8 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

It is true the farming industry isn't immediately devastated by cheap imports. Not a a while anyway. 

 

Fish is basically the status quo - no immediate change so no gun boats either. 

 

No tariffs generally is great news. 

 

But lots of effort and expense for traders with customs declarations and an uncertain future for services. 

 

Obviously if you are not affected by all the free movement stuff too. 

On fish, no immediate change because there is and was always going to be a transition period in any deal. After 5 years there is a significant increase in UK quotas and the proportion of fish in UK waters caught by UK fishermen. 

 

For farmers the real threat is/was cheap imports from outside the EU. Thanks to the CAP EU agricultural products are expensive in international terms. But that only hurts poorer farmers elsewhere and of course consumers.

[The Mighty Thor]

1 hour ago, pablo said:

 

It's not really a shit deal though, that's why the likes of Sturgeon has been left with nothing to whine about other than potato seeds and student exchange programs.

 

I too wish Remain had won back in 2016.

It leaves every single one of us worse off than we were nder the previous arrangements.

 

For no other reason than political ideology and dogma. 

[pablo]

Just now, The Mighty Thor said:

It leaves every single one of us worse off than we were nder the previous arrangements.

 

For no other reason than political ideology and dogma. 

 

I agree. My view is also consistent when it comes to Scottish Independence.

[The Mighty Thor]

I see the theme of the last few pages of this thread is repeated in today's propaganda sheets

 

'Blast off for Britain' & 'A new golden age'

 

I can guarantee it'll be neither, despite how hard the union jackers circle jerk each other.   

 

 

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

1 hour ago, Norm said:

There is absolutely nothing the SNP can do about it, you're quite right. But that attitude of "Westminster can do as they please and we just have to suck it up" is just going to make the eventual indy referendum (because let's face it, it's NEVER going to go away) a stick on for Yes. 

 

If pro-UK want a United Kingdom, they'd be best letting it happen now with all the uncertainty. Folk are scared shitless. Out of Europe, out of UK, in a post-covid landscape, hell, I'd think twice. I'm sure a lot of other folk would too. 

 

But 5 years down the line, with a bit more stability and years of hearing Westminster say "No, you're not allowed to go"? That's only going to go one way. 

 

Regarding the drop in SNP voters after their Covid cock up, no party has excelled in their handling of it. If they're lucky, maybe Labour might claw some votes back but to be honest, going by here, I'm not sure the die hard Nats give a ****. It's indy or bust. 

 

I agree,the handling of covid and people wanting independence are two separate issues. I also don't support the SNP, but support independence. However good or bad Sturgeon is doing doesn't affect my support of  independence.

[Enzo Chiefo]

2 hours ago, Norm said:

That's not much help if they live over there. 

Ex-pats, certainly in Spain, are registered with health centres, pay their taxes and can opt for residential status. They will be treated in the same way as Spanish nationals. In the same way that here in the UK, EU nationals will receive free medical care.

[The Real Maroonblood]

9 minutes ago, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said:

I agree,the handling of covid and people wanting independence are two separate issues. I also don't support the SNP, but support independence. However good or bad Sturgeon is doing doesn't affect my support of  independence.

This.

[Mikey1874]

2 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Ex-pats, certainly in Spain, are registered with health centres, pay their taxes and can opt for residential status. They will be treated in the same way as Spanish nationals. In the same way that here in the UK, EU nationals will receive free medical care.

 

But very different for anyone moving or travelling from 1 January.

[Enzo Chiefo]

3 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

But very different for anyone moving or travelling from 1 January.

Yes, of course, freedom of movement has ended. I don't know the terms of any visas that will be issued but, presumably,  if you have a property and are financially self-sufficient then you can apply.??

[Lone Striker]

1 hour ago, Justin Z said:

 

All the whining and crying in other threads about how no one holds the Scottish government to account from the same people who will now ignore what a garbage deal this is and how much long-term damage it's set the table for.

 

Why are people surprised/outraged that our future relationship with the EU is significantly poorer than full membership ?     

 

 

Yes, many of the Vote Leave  campaigners were shysters - but it was abundantly clear to anyone who actually paid attention  that the nature of the EU is to offer much lower negotiated benefits  to 3rd countries than they do to member states.   

 

 

No idea who the guy Felton (above) is........ maybe he's just being sarcastic.   

[Enzo Chiefo]

2 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

You mean it has free movement of goods, services and people?

No, that was under the previous arrangement.  We won't be paying billions in annual subs, we are the first country to have a zero tariff trade deal with the EU and we will still be participating in scientific and satellite programmes while collaborating on security matters. We also managed to wring a major concession out of the EU that will ensure the viability of Japanese car manufacturing plants, in particular in relation to electric vehicles.  

[WorldChampions1902]

2 hours ago, Lone Striker said:

Why are people surprised/outraged that our future relationship with the EU is significantly poorer than full membership ?     

 

 

Yes, many of the Vote Leave  campaigners were shysters - but it was abundantly clear to anyone who actually paid attention  that the nature of the EU is to offer much lower negotiated benefits  to 3rd countries than they do to member states.   

 

 

No idea who the guy Felton (above) is........ maybe he's just being sarcastic.   

I’m surprised you are asking why people are surprised. Given the litany of lies around how Brexit was sold to the masses, “sunny uplands”, “we hold all the cards”, “there will be no downside to Brexit, only upsides” etc. Etc...etc ad nauseum.
 

Or perhaps you were being sarcastic?

[Lone Striker]

5 hours ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

I’m surprised you are asking why people are surprised. Given the litany of lies around how Brexit was sold to the masses, “sunny uplands”, “we hold all the cards”, “there will be no downside to Brexit, only upsides” etc. Etc...etc ad nauseum.
 

Or perhaps you were being sarcastic?

No.... not being sarcastic. Just genuinely surprised that loads of folk seem to have actually believed  some of these extreme claims being made in the campaign,  and are now wondering why the headline Trade Deal stuff isn't the same as what we had before.   Oh well, too late now.      

[Justin Z]

.

 

Edited December 27, 2020 by Justin Z

[Pans Jambo]

So....

The new deal with the EU is shitter than the one we had and has made the UK over £200Bn poorer whilst negotiating it.

 

Scotland COULD be an Independent nation but we SHOULDN’T have the right to choose at the ballot box.

 

UK Democracy 2020!

 

Well done you.

[WorldChampions1902]

11 hours ago, Lone Striker said:

No.... not being sarcastic. Just genuinely surprised that loads of folk seem to have actually believed  some of these extreme claims being made in the campaign,  and are now wondering why the headline Trade Deal stuff isn't the same as what we had before.   Oh well, too late now.      

I missed a smiley off my original post. I was being sarcastic. Apologies. 😉

 

I am sure that like many of us, you had numerous discussions with friends, family, colleagues and associates on this topic. My ‘surprise’ at people’s arguments fell into a number of categories. In no particular order:-

 

1. some people I thought I knew were in reality, closet racists.

2. some people who I previously thought as intelligent, certainly lacked rational thought when it came to Brexit. An example is a friend who has worked for JLR in a middle management position for over 20 years, who accused me of “scaremongering” on the detrimental effects of Just in Time Delivery in event of No Deal. Completely refused to accept my point.

3. Some people STILL believe the NHS is getting £350m extra a week.

4. Some people voted Leave on the basis of as little as one ‘dislike’. Usually ‘illegal’ immigration, or cannot get a Doctors appointment (because of immigrants), or our council houses are given to immigrants etc.

5. Many people failed to weigh up the pros and cons of both sides of the argument, making a decision based on a narrow view. A good example is fishing, which is worth 0.1% of GDP, which very likely results in us losing financial services business worth 5% - 7% of GDP.

6. Some people wanted a reduction in EU red tape and bureaucracy which means the U.K. government is now scrambling to recruit 50,000 Customs officials to process the resulting tsunami of red tape and bureaucracy that Brexit delivers!

7. some people were so ideologically committed to sovereignty (whatever that means), they were willing to destroy their own, long-established, thriving family business. An example of this was the farmer in Lincolnshire who voted Leave, knowing full well that the resulting lack of immigrants to pick his crops, meant that he no longer had a viable enterprise.

8. Loads of intelligent Leavers were lazy and didn’t do their own research, instead believing the BS in the predominantly Right Wing media in this country, many of whom are suffering buyers remorse.

9. Clearly the above list is by no means exhaustive, but the vast majority of Leavers IMHO, genuinely believe(d) that they would be much happier outside of the EU - not necessarily that economically, the country would be better off. In fact, many Leavers recognise that we won’t be and they are happy to pay the price. But if that cold fact was put on the side of a bus, would we really have ended up leaving?

 

 

 

 

[pablo]

3 minutes ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

I missed a smiley off my original post. I was being sarcastic. Apologies. 😉

 

I am sure that like many of us, you had numerous discussions with friends, family, colleagues and associates on this topic. My ‘surprise’ at people’s arguments fell into a number of categories. In no particular order:-

 

1. some people I thought I knew were in reality, closet racists.

2. some people who I previously thought as intelligent, certainly lacked rational thought when it came to Brexit. An example is a friend who has worked for JLR in a middle management position for over 20 years, who accused me of “scaremongering” on the detrimental effects of Just in Time Delivery in event of No Deal. Completely refused to accept my point.

3. Some people STILL believe the NHS is getting £350m extra a week.

4. Some people voted Leave on the basis of as little as one ‘dislike’. Usually ‘illegal’ immigration, or cannot get a Doctors appointment (because of immigrants), or our council houses are given to immigrants etc.

5. Many people failed to weigh up the pros and cons of both sides of the argument, making a decision based on a narrow view. A good example is fishing, which is worth 0.1% of GDP, which very likely results in us losing financial services business worth 5% - 7% of GDP.

6. Some people wanted a reduction in EU red tape and bureaucracy which means the U.K. government is now scrambling to recruit 50,000 Customs officials to process the resulting tsunami of red tape and bureaucracy that Brexit delivers!

7. some people were so ideologically committed to sovereignty (whatever that means), they were willing to destroy their own, long-established, thriving family business. An example of this was the farmer in Lincolnshire who voted Leave, knowing full well that the resulting lack of immigrants to pick his crops, meant that he no longer had a viable enterprise.

8. Loads of intelligent Leavers were lazy and didn’t do their own research, instead believing the BS in the predominantly Right Wing media in this country, many of whom are suffering buyers remorse.

9. Clearly the above list is by no means exhaustive, but the vast majority of Leavers IMHO, genuinely believe(d) that they would be much happier outside of the EU - not necessarily that economically, the country would be better off. In fact, many Leavers recognise that we won’t be and they are happy to pay the price. But if that cold fact was put on the side of a bus, would we really have ended up leaving?

 

 

 

 

 

How will leaving the EU result in the UK losing It's entire financial services sector? It's thewhole sector that makes up 7% of GDP.

[Justin Z]

 

(article is from 2016)

[SectionDJambo]

14 minutes ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

I missed a smiley off my original post. I was being sarcastic. Apologies. 😉

 

I am sure that like many of us, you had numerous discussions with friends, family, colleagues and associates on this topic. My ‘surprise’ at people’s arguments fell into a number of categories. In no particular order:-

 

1. some people I thought I knew were in reality, closet racists.

2. some people who I previously thought as intelligent, certainly lacked rational thought when it came to Brexit. An example is a friend who has worked for JLR in a middle management position for over 20 years, who accused me of “scaremongering” on the detrimental effects of Just in Time Delivery in event of No Deal. Completely refused to accept my point.

3. Some people STILL believe the NHS is getting £350m extra a week.

4. Some people voted Leave on the basis of as little as one ‘dislike’. Usually ‘illegal’ immigration, or cannot get a Doctors appointment (because of immigrants), or our council houses are given to immigrants etc.

5. Many people failed to weigh up the pros and cons of both sides of the argument, making a decision based on a narrow view. A good example is fishing, which is worth 0.1% of GDP, which very likely results in us losing financial services business worth 5% - 7% of GDP.

6. Some people wanted a reduction in EU red tape and bureaucracy which means the U.K. government is now scrambling to recruit 50,000 Customs officials to process the resulting tsunami of red tape and bureaucracy that Brexit delivers!

7. some people were so ideologically committed to sovereignty (whatever that means), they were willing to destroy their own, long-established, thriving family business. An example of this was the farmer in Lincolnshire who voted Leave, knowing full well that the resulting lack of immigrants to pick his crops, meant that he no longer had a viable enterprise.

8. Loads of intelligent Leavers were lazy and didn’t do their own research, instead believing the BS in the predominantly Right Wing media in this country, many of whom are suffering buyers remorse.

9. Clearly the above list is by no means exhaustive, but the vast majority of Leavers IMHO, genuinely believe(d) that they would be much happier outside of the EU - not necessarily that economically, the country would be better off. In fact, many Leavers recognise that we won’t be and they are happy to pay the price. But if that cold fact was put on the side of a bus, would we really have ended up leaving?

 

 

 

 

That slogan on the bus was definitely a major turning point. Ironic that it had a bunch of politicians, who had starved the NHS of funds in the past and most likely have no intention of feeding the mythical saved funds, standing grinning in front of it. The same politicians, and Farage, who have consistently denied, since the referendum, that the message was their idea or that they had anything to do with it. They just happened to be there when it was rolled out. 

It was probably the arch liar and propagandist, Cummings, who thought it up, but they were all happy to pose for photos in front of it.

[WorldChampions1902]

29 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

How will leaving the EU result in the UK losing It's entire financial services sector? It's thewhole sector that makes up 7% of GDP.

You are correct and it won’t lose it all by any means. But my limited understanding around ‘equivalence and passporting’ in financial services coupled with the stance being made by Brussels means that in just one sector (Financial Services), we will lose out in a colossal amount of GDP which will completely dwarf any perceived financial benefit promised from our fishing gains.

[pablo]

3 minutes ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

You are correct and it won’t lose it all by any means. But my limited understanding around ‘equivalence and passporting’ in financial services coupled with the stance being made by Brussels means that in just one sector (Financial Services), we will lose out in a colossal amount of GDP which will completely dwarf any perceived financial benefit promised from our fishing gains.

 

It's not a great position to be in, I agree. It was agreed during the negotiations that Services would be dealt with separately so the final outcome is yet to be decided. I guess the City could have a choice to make, closer alignment with EU regulations and simpler access to that market, or divergence and seek new Global business. 

 

One thing I'm sure of is trading in the City of London and international banking will continue in one shape or other.