Brexit Deal agreed ( updated )

[Mikey1874]

1 hour ago, dicksojo said:

I know Scotland isn’t a member in its own right but as a part of the United Kingdom I guess it is a member? 

 

What the SNP do is fair enough.

 

They are entitled to object. 

[Lone Striker]

3 hours ago, pablo said:

 

The SNP are now backing no deal? What a shower they really are.

They'd better be sure that there's enough Cons & Lab MPs to vote it through, or else they'll be held responsible for the additional pain being inflicted on Scotland's export & import businesses.  Not a good look for the "Stronger for Scotland" party.

[GinRummy]

3 minutes ago, Lone Striker said:

They'd better be sure that there's enough Cons & Lab MPs to vote it through, or else they'll be held responsible for the additional pain being inflicted on Scotland's export & import businesses.  Not a good look for the "Stronger for Scotland" party.

It’s poor from the SNP. No deal would be an economic disaster. 

[Lone Striker]

23 minutes ago, Cade said:

Scotland would be welcomed with open arms.

Anyone arguing that point is either mentally deficient or trolling.

Possibly.     But remember that economics plays a huge part in the EU world.  They've just lost a net contributor (UK) - and the geography of Scotland suggests that we'd be looking for lots of funding to improve roads, harbours, flood defences  etc  (which could perhaps  make us a net beneficiary).  In other words less money in the EU projects budget, or higher contributions needed from all states.       IMO, there should be a separate referendum on whether Scotland joins the EU after (if) it becomes independent.

 

 

[The Mighty Thor]

44 minutes ago, Lone Striker said:

They'd better be sure that there's enough Cons & Lab MPs to vote it through, or else they'll be held responsible for the additional pain being inflicted on Scotland's export & import businesses.  Not a good look for the "Stronger for Scotland" party.

To be perfectly frank its on the Conservatives and Labour anyway. The whole sorry shitshow from concept through to spineless 'Dave'. 

 

Remember the only way to retain EU membership was to stay in the union. 2014.

 

Out the EU regardless. 2016.

 

The vow, which it appears is to be superseded by 'levelling up'

 

The power grab from the devolved parliaments.

 

Its easy to go on and on and on about the systemic failure of the two horses in the two horse race with regards to the welfare of Scotland, Scots and Scottish businesses. Westminster does not, has not and will never give two shiny ones what goes on in the provinces.  

 

 

[Cruyff]

1 hour ago, Cade said:

Scotland would be welcomed with open arms.

Anyone arguing that point is either mentally deficient or trolling.

We should have a Referendum on joining the EU if Scotland ever becomes Independent. 

[Cade]

6 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

We should have a Referendum on joining the EU if Scotland ever becomes Independent. 

100% agree

[Lone Striker]

1 hour ago, Pans Jambo said:

Well exactly!

And I will bet the plebs that voted for Brexit were not aware that the UK had the legal right to ship out any EU citizen that hadnt worked in the UK for 3 months!

 

AND, as France just demonstrated, they could close borders at any time WITHOUT the EU’s consent.

 

Even now, as you can see by the posts on this thread, the people who were conned and lied into voting for Brexit STILL wont admit that they were, in fact, LIED to.

Succinctly put, Pans  ☺️

[Ulysses]

10 hours ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Scottish seed potatoes are not banned. They just have to apply for the correct certificate to import them into the EU. A phytosanitary certificate which confirms they have been. properly inspected; free from quarantine pests, within the requirements for regulated non-quarantine pests and practically free from other pests; in line with the plant health requirements of the EU, laid down in Regulation (EU) 2019/2072

 

Thanks for that.  DEFRA seems to differ, and they are the UK's national experts.  Has the Department fixed the issue?  There doesn't seem to be anything on the website yet.

 

To be fair, DEFRA doesn't say Scottish seed potatoes are banned; it doesn't (and shouldn't) refer to Scotland at all.  It says "it will not be possible to export seed potatoes to the EU or NI from 1 January."

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-secures-listed-status-to-protect-5-billion-animal-export-market

[Lone Striker]

4 hours ago, dicksojo said:

I think the majority of the debt issued by the western nations is actually owned by their own central banks and not so much international lenders. The us has a only recently reached a position where the fed owns more us debt than the Chinese. Germany is in a position where so much of their debt is owned by either ECB or the Bundesbank that they have effectively crowded out the market entirely for their own debt as other operators can’t find an efficient price. The japanification of Europe is well underway.  
 

Austerity was a social disaster and unfortunately the poor bore a disproportionate weight of the cost.

Thats my vague understanding of the murky world of macro-economics too.   Governments seem to have a secretive and magical relationship with their central bank .........   and central banks around the world seem to be able to magic up money in certain circumstances.     As you mentioned in a previous post, it's probably nothing ordinary people need to worry about unless governments start pursuing  austerity policies which hit the poorest & those in need of support.

[Justin Z]

1 hour ago, Costanza said:

I agree on a deal failing to pass should ordinarily lead to an emergency extension but this is an ideological Tory Government who wouldn't extend during a global pandemic so would never happen.

They could also point to opposition parties previously failing to coalesce around a deal that would have been acceptable to them.

 

They could point to that I suppose, but not a single SNP amendment put forth has passed, and barely any have even gotten any debate on the floor.

 

1 hour ago, Costanza said:

Voting through Article 50, not agreeing a soft Brexit, arguing over who would lead a non Tory minority government....it's been frustrating watching the Remain opposition throughout this.

Not as frustrating as the Tories intent on subjecting the UK to economic and cultural harm of course but frustrating all the same.

 

Yeah, it has been frustrating for sure, and it's largely the natural consequence of a broken union.

[Ulysses]

7 hours ago, Lone Striker said:

Great post, 1902  !!    Yep, that's a fairly likely analysis of various folk who will now be phoning in to Jeremy Vine etc to complain.

 

The reliance on EU workers to pick crops is a very stark one - and if there's a big drop in their numbers next summer, we'll all suffer the effect in the supermarkets.        Ironically, the £390m  per week for the NHS probably has been implemented - but only out of necessity to deal with Covid  !!  😉

 

 

Am I right in thinking that the crop-pickers are seasonal?  As in, they come in to the UK, work for a period of time and leave again?  If so, isn't it a relatively straightforward matter to solve by issuing specific work visas or relying on the overall "90 in 180" visa provision?

[redjambo]

4 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

Am I right in thinking that the crop-pickers are seasonal?  As in, they come in to the UK, work for a period of time and leave again?  If so, isn't it a relatively straightforward matter to solve by issuing specific work visas or relying on the overall "90 in 180" visa provision?

 

I imagine that the 90 in 180 won't allow work, it will be purely for the purposes of tourism. They will however, I imagine, issue short-term visas. It's just more bureaucracy that didn't exist before, and therefore will have a cost involved for the ag business.

[RobboM]

1 hour ago, Cade said:

Scotland would be welcomed with open arms.

Anyone arguing that point is either mentally deficient or trolling.

Following Brexit, how would a Scotland rejoining the EU manage to avoid a hard border with England?
A solution similar to Ireland would surely require England to cast itself in the role of Norther Ireland to facilitate Scottish membership.

[Ulysses]

2 hours ago, Pans Jambo said:

What a load of utter shyte posted on this last page.

Scotland didnt vote for Brexit but the numpties expect the democratically elected  MP’s to vote through a deal thats entirely shittier than the one we have?

SNP will abstain which is what every labour supporter in Scotland embraces anyway.

 

Time to get out of this “union” of equals!

 

Sorry, but that ain't how it works.  The real choice for Parliament now is between this deal and no deal.  If Parliament rejects the deal, it is choosing no deal, not some sunny alternative.  The only possible alternative is to get into the kind of amendment and parliamentary procedure territory that was seen over the acceptance of the Withdrawal Agreement - in other words, to tack on amendments to try to do various things like nullify the vote or extend the transition.  Those procedural steps won't work on this occasion, which means that any party which votes against the agreement is voting for a no deal exit.  It is a no deal exit that does all the damage to Scotland, not the fact of exiting itself. 

[Ulysses]

6 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

I imagine that the 90 in 180 won't allow work, it will be purely for the purposes of tourism. They will however, I imagine, issue short-term visas. It's just more bureaucracy that didn't exist before, and therefore will have a cost involved for the ag business.

 

True.  A lot of the costs for businesses will be hidden, and not just in the case of crop-picking.  But that's not the same as predicting doomsday for the sector.

[Ulysses]

6 minutes ago, RobboM said:

Following Brexit, how would a Scotland rejoining the EU manage to avoid a hard border with England?
A solution similar to Ireland would surely require England to cast itself in the role of Norther Ireland to facilitate Scottish membership.

 

By the way, why are people in Scotland asking the wrong question?

 

Northern Ireland isn't being taken out of the EU.  Scotland is.  Why is it acceptable to treat members of your "union of equals" differently?

[Ulysses]

Just now, Ulysses said:

 

By the way, why are people in Scotland asking the wrong question?

 

Northern Ireland isn't being taken out of the EU.  Scotland is.  Why is it acceptable to treat members of your "union of equals" differently?

 

By the way, before the pedants all @ me, this is for all practical purposes true even if technically it's not. 

[RobboM]

1 minute ago, Ulysses said:

 

By the way, before the pedants all @ me, this is for all practical purposes true even if technically it's not. 

Understood and surely thereforre England would have to cast itself in the N Ireland role in order to avoid a hard border with an EU member Scotland.

[Lone Striker]

14 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

 

 

 

Yeah, it has been frustrating for sure, and it's largely the natural consequence of a broken union.

A bit controversial there, Justin.  😉     Frustrating ... definitely.   But I'd suggest it was the natural consequence of all the parties (apart from a couple of UKIP numpties) being unable to reconcile the democratic UK-wide referendum vote to Leave with their own  Remain policies (remember, even the majority Conservative position was Remain).       They simply didn't know how to proceed.   Theresa May tried to drive towards a softer Brexit ....... all the others voted against her Withdrawal Agreement 3 times in the hope that they could either get a 2nd referendum or just ignore it altogether.    Somehow the minority ERG nutjob wing won the day.    A classic lesson for these parties   of   "be careful what you wish for" .

[Lone Striker]

38 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

Thanks for that.  DEFRA seems to differ, and they are the UK's national experts.  Has the Department fixed the issue?  There doesn't seem to be anything on the website yet.

 

To be fair, DEFRA doesn't say Scottish seed potatoes are banned; it doesn't (and shouldn't) refer to Scotland at all.  It says "it will not be possible to export seed potatoes to the EU or NI from 1 January."

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-secures-listed-status-to-protect-5-billion-animal-export-market

A nice Xmas present for NI seed potato growers !!    

[Lone Striker]

22 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

By the way, why are people in Scotland asking the wrong question?

 

Northern Ireland isn't being taken out of the EU.  Scotland is.  Why is it acceptable to treat members of your "union of equals" differently?

I'm pretty  sure you know the answer to that, Ulysses  😉

[Ulysses]

Just now, Lone Striker said:

Somehow the minority ERG nutjob wing won the day. 

 

I think that's up to the UK to work out as it goes along.  Leaving the EU with no deal is a win for the ERG warriors.  Leaving the EU with a deal means it's up to the UK to make its mind up about how much of a pivot away from Europe it wants to do and is capable of doing.  But whether it pivots away a little or a lot that doesn't require the UK to race to the bottom, however much the loons might wish for that to happen.  The UK has never really thrived by itself.  It first built its prosperity on an extractive empire, then it kind of fell apart and drifted a bit in a radically-changing Europe for a few decades, then it built a second wave of prosperity on the back of its membership of the EU and the Single Market.  The UK has something in its psyche that needs to try this thing, and while the access it has to the Single Market is now more costly and more bureaucratic, it is still a valuable safety net as the country tries to figure out where it's going next. 

[Ulysses]

25 minutes ago, RobboM said:

Understood and surely thereforre England would have to cast itself in the N Ireland role in order to avoid a hard border with an EU member Scotland.

 

Yes, but if a special deal could be done for NI in this agreement (and the Protocol), why not for Scotland?  Did anyone consider the possibility?

[RobboM]

16 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

Yes, but if a special deal could be done for NI in this agreement (and the Protocol), why not for Scotland?  Did anyone consider the possibility?

?
Not for a second, and why would they. Presumably they believe Brexit means Brexit
Am I missing something here? Surely it is the land border between N Ireland and the EU that has forced this solution. It doesn't exist elsewhere in Great Britain therefore no special deals for Scotland, Wales, Cornwall or London for that matter.

[Pans Jambo]

1 hour ago, Ulysses said:

 

Sorry, but that ain't how it works.  The real choice for Parliament now is between this deal and no deal.  If Parliament rejects the deal, it is choosing no deal, not some sunny alternative.  The only possible alternative is to get into the kind of amendment and parliamentary procedure territory that was seen over the acceptance of the Withdrawal Agreement - in other words, to tack on amendments to try to do various things like nullify the vote or extend the transition.  Those procedural steps won't work on this occasion, which means that any party which votes against the agreement is voting for a no deal exit.  It is a no deal exit that does all the damage to Scotland, not the fact of exiting itself. 

Its all moot. The tories have a clear majority in Westminster with their lapdog DUP members and any tory that had anything resembling a soul was cleared out by Boris earlier. They will all respect the whip and stand in-line.

No other parties vote will make the slightest bit difference.

[Ulysses]

24 minutes ago, RobboM said:

?
Not for a second, and why would they. Presumably they believe Brexit means Brexit
Am I missing something here? Surely it is the land border between N Ireland and the EU that has forced this solution. It doesn't exist elsewhere in Great Britain therefore no special deals for Scotland, Wales, Cornwall or London for that matter.

 

Of course.  But that has created a situation in which NI residents will be treated more favourably than residents of any of the other members of the "union of equals".

 

8 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

Its all moot. The tories have a clear majority in Westminster with their lapdog DUP members and any tory that had anything resembling a soul was cleared out by Boris earlier. They will all respect the whip and stand in-line.

No other parties vote will make the slightest bit difference.

 

Doesn't that reinforce my point?  The only real options for the SNP are to (i) vote for this deal or (ii) vote for no deal.  If the SNP is serious about its position, what it could do is propose an amendment with a clear purpose, i.e. to reject the deal and direct the Government to go back in and negotiate an EFTA-style arrangement.  Once that is defeated, as we know it would be, the SNP can say it did its best, and recognising the only real choice left it can either vote for this deal or abstain.

 

Voting against the deal is not in Scotland's best interests.

[Pans Jambo]

4 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

Of course.  But that has created a situation in which NI residents will be treated more favourably than residents of any of the other members of the "union of equals".

 

 

Doesn't that reinforce my point?  The only real options for the SNP are to (i) vote for this deal or (ii) vote for no deal.  If the SNP is serious about its position, what it could do is propose an amendment with a clear purpose, i.e. to reject the deal and direct the Government to go back in and negotiate an EFTA-style arrangement.  Once that is defeated, as we know it would be, the SNP can say it did its best, and recognising the only real choice left it can either vote for this deal or abstain.

 

Voting against the deal is not in Scotland's best interests.

Perhaps. My view is Scotland has said and done enough to try and get the UK Gov to see sense. Ignored at every step.

Vote for, vote against or abstain...no difference at all to the end result. There will be no amendments.

Its as good as done. 

[Pans Jambo]

Just now, Zlatanable said:

I don't agree with you saying 'Scotland' here. It isn't Scotland.

 

Sorry, I mean the democratically elected MP’s representing Scotland’s interests. 
ie not just your opinion but 60 odd percent of Scots who didnt vote or want Brexit.

 

But you knew that.

[Ulysses]

4 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

Vote for, vote against or abstain...no difference at all to the end result. There will be no amendments.

Its as good as done. 

 

You're not wrong, but at this stage it's all about the politics.  Does the SNP want to be the party who voted for this deal, or the party who voted for no deal?

[Pans Jambo]

Just now, Ulysses said:

 

You're not wrong, but at this stage it's all about the politics.  Does the SNP want to be the party who voted for this deal, or the party who voted for no deal?

TBH I dont know what they’ll do. Maybe abstain. Probably be ignored anyway.

[Ulysses]

12 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

TBH I dont know what they’ll do. Maybe abstain. Probably be ignored anyway.

 

It won't be ignored where it counts.

[Pans Jambo]

5 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

No. The people of Scotland voted No to becoming an Independent nation in a once in a generation/lifetime, then the UK voted to leave the EU. 

 

I believe in democracy, why can't you?

I do but just not your warped view.

Scotland voted no to independence on the basis of staying part of the UK and the UK staying part of the EU.

Then Scotland voted to stay part of the EU when asked. And by a huge majority.

But then you believe Scottish votes only matter when they agree with what England votes for it appears.

[CJGJ]

10 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

No. The people of Scotland voted No to becoming an Independent nation in a once in a generation/lifetime, then the UK voted to leave the EU. 

 

I believe in democracy, why can't you?

I cannot remember that bit on the voting form that said 'please note this is a once in a generation/lifetime vote'

 

Was it on the reverse of the slip ?

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, CJGJ said:

I cannot remember that bit on the voting form that said 'please note this is a once in a generation/lifetime vote'

 

Was it on the reverse of the slip ?

It was next to the disclaimer that said there would be another vote if the UK leaves the EU

[Cairneyhill Jambo]

13 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

Do we really have to keep doing this? I mean Nicola Sturgeon and Alex Salmond both clearly used both phrases in the run up to the referendum in 2014, and The SNP Government signed a legal document in which they agreed they would abide by the outcome of a democratic process. 

That democratic process happened. 

 

It has been sheer and utter fantasyland since.

I bet you still believe in Santa Claus. Im pretty sure it was Salmond that said it was a once in a lifetime opportunity for the people of Scotland to choose their destiny but then the tories lied. Remember the promise they made about the only way we would stay in the EU if People voted no to independence? You're  the one living in fantasy land. The fact the tories lied about staying in the EU is one of the reasons there should be another referendum. 

[Cairneyhill Jambo]

18 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

sighs. 

How much do you bet I believe in Santa Claus? ( however much you do, you can give to Big Hearts) ((you will give £0.00 in your case here))

 

Please, never stop this shtick. 

 

Shtick. Ha ha ha. 

 

I bet your mates are glad that the pubs are shut so they dont have to ask you out for a pint on a Friday night. 

[manaliveits105]

I see the SG have recalled the toytown Parliament on Wednesday the day of the deal vote in the real Parliament to discuss the deal - as if their opinions matter 

absolute waste of public monies and time but that’s the whole snp bag

 

[Ainsley Harriott]

10 hours ago, Cade said:

Scotland would be welcomed with open arms.

Anyone arguing that point is either mentally deficient or trolling.

You've decided that have you 😂😂

[Enzo Chiefo]

33 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

I see the SG have recalled the toytown Parliament on Wednesday the day of the deal vote in the real Parliament to discuss the deal - as if their opinions matter 

absolute waste of public monies and time but that’s the whole snp bag

 

A glorified Student Union debating chamber. It's a reserved matter and 66% of our trade is with the UK anyway. It takes a real lack of intellect to argue about the importance of staying in a bureaucratic union with which 16% of our trade depends, while simultaneously agitating to leave the UK, the most successful union in history and on which the vast majority of Scottish jobs depend. Not to mention social, familial and historical ties. 

[Taffin]

I'm anti-brexit but I'm curious as to why people keep saying Scotland didn't vote for Brexit?

 

Whilst that's true, becauseScotland didn't vote on Brexit at all, I don't think it's being meant in that way by those saying it.  Scotland did have a chance to control their destiny in regards to Europe but democratically chose not to take that route.

Edited December 28, 2020 by Taffin

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

8 hours ago, Zlatanable said:

Do we really have to keep doing this? I mean Nicola Sturgeon and Alex Salmond both clearly used both phrases in the run up to the referendum in 2014, and The SNP Government signed a legal document in which they agreed they would abide by the outcome of a democratic process. 

That democratic process happened. 

 

It has been sheer and utter fantasyland since.

So the once in a generation thing is pretty much nonsense with no legal basis?

[AlimOzturk]

8 hours ago, Zlatanable said:

Do we really have to keep doing this? I mean Nicola Sturgeon and Alex Salmond both clearly used both phrases in the run up to the referendum in 2014, and The SNP Government signed a legal document in which they agreed they would abide by the outcome of a democratic process. 

That democratic process happened. 

 

It has been sheer and utter fantasyland since.

It isn’t fantasy land at all. Scotland Voted no when the No campaigners assured us that the only way for Scotland to remain part of EU was to remain part of the UK. This was a major part of their campaign which would have bought many votes from folk who would have voted for independence if they knew what they now. 
 

That alone is enough to justify calling for a second referendum. It is a major change and the people of Scotland deserve the right to decide if we want to leave a union which is leaving the biggest trading block in the the world to try and rejoin. 
 

it isn’t difficult to comprehend. But keep repeating the line “once in a generation” all you want. Another independence referendum will happen within the next 3 years I reckon. The tories will be to blame. There is to much support for it now. 
 

FWIW after watching the horror show from both the tories and SNP in regards to I am utterly torn which way to vote. A horrible decision to make however it I one that once again needs to be asked. 

Edited December 28, 2020 by AlimOzturk

[dicksojo]

1 minute ago, AlimOzturk said:

It isn’t fantasy land at all. Scotland Voted no when the No campaigners assured us that the only way for Scotland to remain part of Europe was to remain part of the EU. This was a major part of their campaign which would have bought many votes from folk who would have voted to leave if they knew what they now. 
 

That alone is enough to justify calling for a second referendum. Is is a major change and the people of Scotland deserve the right to decide if we want to leave a union which is leaving the biggest trading block in the the world to try and rejoin. 
 

it isn’t difficult to comprehend. 

It is the largest trading block in the world but it is not Scotland’s main trading partner. The main trading partner is the rest of the uk by some margin. Using the trade argument without acknowledging Scotland’s largest trading partner is insane. Can you not see the logical fallacy in that? 

[AlimOzturk]

3 minutes ago, dicksojo said:

It is the largest trading block in the world but it is not Scotland’s main trading partner. The main trading partner is the rest of the uk by some margin. Using the trade argument without acknowledging Scotland’s largest trading partner is insane. Can you not see the logical fallacy in that? 

I am not arguing for or against independence here. What I am saying is that brexit is a big enough material difference to what has gone before and since the last vote that the question once again must be asked. You then have a majority SNP government whose major campaign is independence and a surge in support in the polls for independence that this question simply can’t be ignored. 
 

If the people still want to remain then they will vote against it. 

Edited December 28, 2020 by AlimOzturk

[dicksojo]

1 minute ago, AlimOzturk said:

I am not arguing for or against independence here. What I am saying is that brexit is a big enough material difference to what has gone before that the question once again must be asked. 
 

If the people still want to remain then they will vote against it. 

That’s a matter of opinion but I would ask what independence supporters thought was going to happen after the once in a generation thing was agreed. Did they just expect the world to stand still around them with no changes to the status quo? If it wasn’t Brexit then it would be something else that would give cause for independence supporters to request a second referendum. Scotland voted to remain part of the uk and we need to take the tough and the smooth with that decision.

[AlimOzturk]

2 minutes ago, dicksojo said:

That’s a matter of opinion but I would ask what independence supporters thought was going to happen after the once in a generation thing was agreed. Did they just expect the world to stand still around them with no changes to the status quo? If it wasn’t Brexit then it would be something else that would give cause for independence supporters to request a second referendum. Scotland voted to remain part of the uk and we need to take the tough and the smooth with that decision.

The problem we have here is that the unionists campaigned on a false pretence that the ONLY way Scotland would remain part of the EU is to remain part of the UK. If Scotland knew that because of their party politics that the Tory party would drag us out of Europe despite Scotland voting overwhelmingly against brexit then it would have been a landslide in favour independence IMO.

 

You simply can’t deny that is a major change in politics. You can repeat this “once in a generation” line till you are blue in the face. There is once again a desire for a second referendum and it will happen. You only have the so called unionist Tory party to blame. 

[pablo]

57 minutes ago, Taffin said:

I'm anti-brexit but I'm curious as to why people keep saying Scotland didn't vote for Brexit?

 

Whilst that's true, becauseScotland didn't vote on Brexit at all, I don't think it's being meant in that way by those saying it.  Scotland did have a chance to control their destiny in regards to Europe but democratically chose not to take that route.

 

The irony being that the choice being put in front of us by the SNP in 2014, was a hard no deal exit from the EU. 

 

[pablo]

2 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

The problem we have here is that the unionists campaigned on a false pretence that the ONLY way Scotland would remain part of the EU is to remain part of the UK. If Scotland knew that because of their party politics that the Tory party would drag us out of Europe despite Scotland voting overwhelmingly against brexit then it would have been a landslide in favour independence IMO.

 

You simply can’t deny that is a major change in politics. You can repeat this “once in a generation” line till you are blue in the face. There is once again a desire for a second referendum and it will happen. You only have the so called unionist Tory party to blame. 

 

No it wouldn't have. I don't think many Scots gave two hoots about the EU until post 2016, after which the separatists were able to use it as a grievance lever.

[dicksojo]

3 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

The problem we have here is that the unionists campaigned on a false pretence that the ONLY way Scotland would remain part of the EU is to remain part of the UK. If Scotland knew that because of their party politics that the Tory party would drag us out of Europe despite Scotland voting overwhelmingly against brexit then it would have been a landslide in favour independence IMO.

 

You simply can’t deny that is a major change in politics. You can repeat this “once in a generation” line till you are blue in the face. There is once again a desire for a second referendum and it will happen. You only have the so called unionist Tory party to blame. 

The Tory party didn’t drag us out of Europe the uk electorate did. The Tory party’s internal schism led to it. Just remember, people in Scotland voted to leave the eu too. 
 

For what it’s worth I voted to remain in the EU but compounding one mistake with another isn’t the solution.