Brexit Deal agreed ( updated )

[pablo]

1 hour ago, Justin Z said:

 

Pretty simple. Because the common unionist line that the SNP care not a jot about Scotland or its wellbeing, but solely about independence, is actually a load of delusional bollocks.

 

The party of Machiavelli is the Tories. Their shambles speaks for itself; independence doesn't need everything to burn down to make its case.

 

I guess that's debatable, depending on which side of the argument you sit.

 

The point I was making to ri Alban's post on Brexit being a good thing for the likelihood of Scottish Independence happening sooner, was that it's probably had the opposite effect.

[Governor Tarkin]

Machiavelli = Goodguy

[Justin Z]

8 minutes ago, pablo said:

I guess that's debatable, depending on which side of the argument you sit.

 

The point I was making to ri Alban's post on Brexit being a good thing for the likelihood of Scottish Independence happening sooner, was that it's probably had the opposite effect.

 

Ah I see. Yeah, my housemate said something to me this morning that I thought was interesting: to him, the fact that there's not going to be a "boom" moment due to a no deal actually benefits independence in the long run. The reason being, it'll be a gradual decline, which will allow pro-Brexiters to continue in their cognitive dissonance and denial of the reality that Brexit is harmful. And when you already have 2/3 of the population here against it, that'll only annoy more of them who might be fence-sitting as regards to independence.

 

Guess time will tell!

[Justin Z]

9 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

Machiavelli = Goodguy

 

Cheeky bas.

 

Merry Eve, Gov.

 

[Governor Tarkin]

8 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

Cheeky bas.

 

Merry Eve, Gov.

 

 

 

 

Merry Eve to you to, bud.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

👍

[Justin Z]

15 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

[redjambo]

Only on here could you ever think of seeing photos of Governor Tarkin and Niccolò Machiavelli wearing Santa Claus hats in subsequent posts.

 

Never change, JKB!

[JackLadd]

So my Brexit vote was the right one along with the 38% of Scotland that refused to be conned by the snp, Labour, Libs and then Tory party line. 

[ri Alban]

10 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

So my Brexit vote was the right one along with the 38% of Scotland that refused to be conned by the snp, Labour, Libs and then Tory party line. 

A no voting brexiteer? You'll need to explain that one. Oh and don't worry, ma bus has plenty a room. 

 

 

[JackLadd]

17 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

A no voting brexiteer? You'll need to explain that one. Oh and don't worry, ma bus has plenty a room. 

 

 

 

A happy nawbag and Brexiteer.  Nicola better come up with an snp spin on this. Her and Salmo the phantom zombie groper of Bute House foretold disaster. Let's see her sell iScotland chained to Brussels and paying them a billion a year in subs. Go ahead hen. 

Edited December 24, 2020 by JackLadd

[Lone Striker]

I think it's  hard to say how the new "deal" will affect the political  dynamic around  Scottish independence - and too early, since it'll take many days for the political analysts to go through the draft document.    Then of course, it has to be ratified by 27 EU states and the UK parliament.  Lot's of things could still go  wrong to stop it crossing  the line.

 

The voting intentions of the SNP and Labour  for the bill will be interesting.      If the WM whispers suggest that the ERG wing will vote for it (or abstain) - i.e.  it's going to be ratified - then the SNP may decide to vote against, just for the hell of it and to keep the "hate ra Tories" narrative going.    But if the numbers look like being close, would the SNP dare vote against, knowing that no-deal tariffs would  harm Scottish exporters ?     Similar dilemma  for most Labour MPs, I'd imagine - except Corbyn though. His hatred for Tories and capitalism in general probably take precedence.

 

Ironically, the SNP's safest hope that a hard Brexit will push the "Yes" poll numbers up might well be to see one of the EU27 vote it down. 🙄

 

 

Edited December 24, 2020 by Lone Striker

[Ulysses]

4 hours ago, Cade said:

Seems that the UK totally caved in about the fish.

25% of fish value transferred from EU to UK quotas over a 5 year period.

Which was the EU's starting position in negotiations.

 

UK started demanding 100% then 60% then 50% then 35% then accepted the 25% offer.

 

 

IIRC the starting position of the EU was to continue the same arrangements, i.e. no transfer.  Then the first move they made was to offer 15%.  Now it's 25%.

 

Trivial though the figures may be, it's fair to say that the EU have been persuaded to move, IMO.

 

Irish news sources say fishing is still a problem, by the way.

[Lone Striker]

BBC reporting the deal has been agreed now.

[Don Dan]

Deal done!

[Ibrahim Tall]

All children born in the UK from now on need to be named either Angela or Emmanuel but we TOOK BACK ER FISH!

[manaliveits105]

[Costanza]

This is evidently good news as no deal would have been a disaster.

The 2000 page deal will still need ratified but one hurdle is out the way.

However, will trade now be seamless from 2021 and businesses prosper.........I doubt it very much.

 

[Ulysses]

[SwindonJambo]

11 minutes ago, Costanza said:

This is evidently good news as no deal would have been a disaster.

The 2000 page deal will still need ratified but one hurdle is out the way.

However, will trade now be seamless from 2021 and businesses prosper.........I doubt it very much.

 

Agreed. I think the deal will evolve. Some bits will work well and others not so I can see modifications as we go along. It certainly isn't bad news. 

 

 

[Ulysses]

UK opts out of Erasmus, according to Irish journalists.

[Justin Z]

 

From here

 

Yay we avoided £-2,500 per person per annum and it's only about £-2,000 now

 

[Whatever]

Boris - ‘That’s the good news from Brussels....now for the sprouts!’

 

🤣🤣🤣

[Ulysses]

11 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

UK opts out of Erasmus, according to Irish journalists.

 

Michel Barnier: "the level of ambition in terms of the mobility of citizens is not in line with our historical ties"

[manaliveits105]

The doom mongers are twitching  - cant wait for The Fat Hibby to drone on in parliament about what a disaster the deal will be 

democracy has won the day onwards and upwards - lets make Britain Great again 

[JudyJudyJudy]

Sad day for the U.K.  well I suppose that’s what you get when you go be people a referendum to vote on very complex issues . But I accept that is what the majority of the population of the U.K. wanted so only right to respect even though it’s massive economic , cultural  and international suicide . 

[Ibrahim Tall]

5 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

The doom mongers are twitching  - cant wait for The Fat Hibby to drone on in parliament about what a disaster the deal will be 

democracy has won the day onwards and upwards - lets make Britain Great again 

 

If you think people are ‘twitching’ now wait until it’s become fully known on how much the UK will have ‘compromised’ on.

[The Real Maroonblood]

Just now, Ibrahim Tall said:

 

If you think people are ‘twitching’ now wait until it’s become fully known on how much the UK will have ‘compromised’ on.

[manaliveits105]

The Turing Scheme to replace  Erasmus and give students the opportunity to study worldwide - not just Europe -

bravo they will lap that up.

[The Real Maroonblood]

Make Britain great again.

[Victorian]

Has the First Sea Lord called in the dreadnoughts then?

[Francis Albert]

Good news that a deal has been. However disappointing for the ultra-remainers.

Sorry for all those billionaire backers of Boris who we were told were down for a few billions more if we had no deal.

[Victorian]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-55429840

 

Kuenssberg claiming a draw for plucky Boris.

 

[Lone Striker]

21 minutes ago, Ibrahim Tall said:

 

If you think people are ‘twitching’ now wait until it’s become fully known on how much the UK will have ‘compromised’ on.

Compromised on ?       Isn't that what a successful negotiation requires, by definition ?   Otherwise, one side wins everything and the other loses on all its aspirations.

[Mikey1874]

1 hour ago, Lone Striker said:

I think it's  hard to say how the new "deal" will affect the political  dynamic around  Scottish independence - and too early, since it'll take many days for the political analysts to go through the draft document.    Then of course, it has to be ratified by 27 EU states and the UK parliament.  Lot's of things could still go  wrong to stop it crossing  the line.

 

The voting intentions of the SNP and Labour  for the bill will be interesting.      If the WM whispers suggest that the ERG wing will vote for it (or abstain) - i.e.  it's going to be ratified - then the SNP may decide to vote against, just for the hell of it and to keep the "hate ra Tories" narrative going.    But if the numbers look like being close, would the SNP dare vote against, knowing that no-deal tariffs would  harm Scottish exporters ?     Similar dilemma  for most Labour MPs, I'd imagine - except Corbyn though. His hatred for Tories and capitalism in general probably take precedence.

 

Ironically, the SNP's safest hope that a hard Brexit will push the "Yes" poll numbers up might well be to see one of the EU27 vote it down. 🙄

 

 

 

With due respect there is no issue around ratification.

 

UK Parliament has more than enough votes in favour. Kier Starmer will recommend Labour votes for it.

 

Every EU nation has been involved all along and agreed the deal including the final stages this week.

[Francis Albert]

28 minutes ago, Ibrahim Tall said:

 

If you think people are ‘twitching’ now wait until it’s become fully known on how much the UK will have ‘compromised’ on.

If we have surrendered to the EU I assume it will be welcomed by the remainers. 

But maybe wait for the details?

[Ibrahim Tall]

14 minutes ago, Lone Striker said:

Compromised on ?       Isn't that what a successful negotiation requires, by definition ?   Otherwise, one side wins everything and the other loses on all its aspirations.

You’re confusing me for someone who actually wanted to leave in the first place. Anything that’s been compromised and agreed with the EU will be a hell of a lot closer to what I wanted than what the  ERG etc did.

Edited December 24, 2020 by Ibrahim Tall

[RobboM]

We are now at precisely the stage that should/could be put to a referendum.
"Brexit means Brexit" and folks who said "I always knew what I was voting for" are finally letting us in on the secret. Of course it could be argued that this deal is only so bountiful because of the threat of No Deal. I have my doubts on that. It seems to me that EU had strategy where UK had bluster and threat and the elusive, and adaptable, concept of sovereignty.
At least I can thank the Good Friday Agreement for an Irish passport, pour me a Christmas Guinness ☘️

[Lone Striker]

3 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

With due respect there is no issue around ratification.

 

UK Parliament has more than enough votes in favour. Kier Starmer will recommend Labour votes for it.

 

Every EU nation has been involved all along and agreed the deal including the final stages this week.

I hope so too, but politicians play politics whenever they can.  

[Lone Striker]

4 minutes ago, Ibrahim Tall said:

You’re confusing me for someone who actually wanted to leave in the first place. Anything that’s been compromised and agreed with the EU will be a hell of a lot closer to what I wanted than the what the ERG etc did,

👍   I wasn't meaning to imply anything about your own views - but I agree with you !! 👍☺️

[manaliveits105]

Did Queen Nicky welcome the deal being good for Scottish businesses and the Scottish economy 

eh naw "its worth remembering that Scotland voted to remain "

get over it nippy you aint had a good week 

 

get practicing your I  I  I me me me Christmas speech 

 

[RobboM]

[ri Alban]

Good, now we can beat covid and then get Scotland back into the EU properly. 

 

Tick Tock! 

[Ainsley Harriott]

35 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Good news that a deal has been. However disappointing for the ultra-remainers.

Sorry for all those billionaire backers of Boris who we were told were down for a few billions more if we had no deal.

I think the no deal was just posturing by Boris there was always going to be  deal. 

[Ainsley Harriott]

Just now, ri Alban said:

Good, now we can beat covid and then get Scotland back into the EU properly. 

 

Tick Tock! 

By waiting for a generation to pass in order to have another referendum? Then spending a couple of decades attempting to join the EU?

[SectionDJambo]

40 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Sad day for the U.K.  well I suppose that’s what you get when you go be people a referendum to vote on very complex issues . But I accept that is what the majority of the population of the U.K. wanted so only right to respect even though it’s massive economic , cultural  and international suicide . 

Actually, it's what the majority of those voted in the referendum wanted. There were roughly 46.5 million elible to vote in the referendum. Just under 17.5 million voted for Brexit. I should say those are figures I've seen are within articles on the internet, but they don't seem to be far out. So the majority of those eligible to vote, didn't vote to leave.

I've never had any doubt that if the vote had gone against the leave campaign by the same margin as they won by, Farage and his chums would have started up the propaganda machine to suggest that it was a big enough mandate for another vote a couple of years later.

But, under the rules of our democracy, the Leave campaign won, but not by a resounding majority of the UK electorate, as they continually claim.

Time will tell who was right and who was wrong, whether or not we should have just tried to change from within, and of course, if any Conservative government will increase the NHS budget by the numbers, they were all happy to be photographed next to, on their "Battle Bus". The numbers that every one of them has since said they didn't come up with. 

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

7 minutes ago, Ainsley Harriott said:

By waiting for a generation to pass in order to have another referendum? Then spending a couple of decades attempting to join the EU?

If Scotland wants independence, we'll get it. Don't need to wait for a generation, or Westminster.

[JudyJudyJudy]

28 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

Did Queen Nicky welcome the deal being good for Scottish businesses and the Scottish economy 

eh naw "its worth remembering that Scotland voted to remain "

get over it nippy you aint had a good week 

 

get practicing your I  I  I me me me Christmas speech 

 

Even though I voted to remain I do take some delight in Imagining how her coupon must be tonight lol as you say not a good week . It’s beginning to tumble down 

[Mikey1874]

I have always said you need to wait to see what Brexit brings over 2 to 3 years before deciding if Scotland has lost out.

 

So any referendum on independence should be 2023 at earliest. 

 

Though I do understand there are other arguments in favour.

 

If we get cheaper imports for example to improve the standard of living that's another problem for the SNP/ Independence movement alongside the currency and the deficit. 

[Ulysses]

42 minutes ago, RobboM said:

At least I can thank the Good Friday Agreement for an Irish passport, pour me a Christmas Guinness ☘️

 

The Irish Higher Education Minister confirms that students in NI will have access to Erasmus, by the way.  I'm still waiting to see if the UK is opting out of Horizon.

[Francis Albert]

19 minutes ago, Ainsley Harriott said:

I think the no deal was just posturing by Boris there was always going to be  deal. 

Agreed. My post was directed at those who have been telling us all  year that Boris wanted no deal because his "backers" would benefit from it. Posturing I think is wrong. He had to be willing or appear to be willing to accept no deal otherwise he had no negotiating position.