Brexit Deal agreed ( updated )

[Ulysses]

Word among journos here is that the fish deal (whatever that is) will only be temporary - we can put that in the file along with the British Internal Sea Border, so.  One RTÉ correspondent has tweeted to say that the entire trade agreement draft text runs to 2,000 pages.

[redjambo]

59 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

 

Reds post was genuinely funny...a lot better than some of the carp that usually appears during  pun fest...

 

 

I thought it was one of my tamer efforts, to be honest. Which just goes to show how humour is in the mind of the beholder. Thank you anyway for finding it so finny.

[AlphonseCapone]

15 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

Word among journos here is that the fish deal (whatever that is) will only be temporary - we can put that in the file along with the British Internal Sea Border, so.  One RTÉ correspondent has tweeted to say that the entire trade agreement draft text runs to 2,000 pages.

 

That'll be a cracking read. 

[Konrad von Carstein]

14 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

I thought it was one of my tamer efforts, to be honest. Which just goes to show how humour is in the mind of the beholder. Thank you anyway for finding it so finny.

[Ulysses]

11 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

That'll be a cracking read. 

 

Unfortunately they didn't get it out in time to catch the Christmas sales rush. 

[Ulysses]

29 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Thank you anyway for finding it so finny.

 

[Ulysses]

It's a funny old world.

 

According to Irish government sources the key difference at the moment amounts to 10% of UK waters' annual fish stocks.

 

That's about £60 million a year.  That's roughly the same as Irish people spend on second-hand cars in the UK every 25 days.  It's the equivalent of 50 minutes of trade between the blocks.  It's, in other words, the square root of **** all.

 

You'd have to wonder what the smokescreen is for, wouldn't you?

[The Mighty Thor]

Has anyone checked if the 'New oven ready, good to go deal' meets the Farage/ERG militant wing threshold?

[Nucky Thompson]

Thank feck that they seem to have reached a deal.

I don't care about the ins and outs of it. just glad for it to be done and dusted

[Francis Albert]

We have been told for months if not years that the objective of Boris and his backers was no deal Brexit.

[Francis Albert]

49 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Has anyone checked if the 'New oven ready, good to go deal' meets the Farage/ERG militant wing threshold?

It doesn't really matter. They were always peripheral.

 

[Francis Albert]

1 hour ago, Ulysses said:

It's a funny old world.

 

According to Irish government sources the key difference at the moment amounts to 10% of UK waters' annual fish stocks.

 

That's about £60 million a year.  That's roughly the same as Irish people spend on second-hand cars in the UK every 25 days.  It's the equivalent of 50 minutes of trade between the blocks.  It's, in other words, the square root of **** all.

 

You'd have to wonder what the smokescreen is for, wouldn't you?

All negotiations eventually reduce to trivia. Which is how they eventually conclude.

[Ulysses]

I saw something odd on Twitter tonight.  It's been presented as a "the English don't give a shite about the Scots" issue, which maybe it is (though I don't think so).  What is more interesting is what the technical issue says about how messy and complex the deal might be.

 

Apparently, the UK and EU have agreed that potatoes for eating can be imported into the EU from the UK, but seed potatoes can't.  Seed potatoes are small business in most of the UK, but are a big export for Scottish farmers (I wasn't aware of this, but there you go).

 

Leaving aside the Scottish angle, it appears that the reason for the difference in treatment is because there are some areas of plant health control where the UK will be able to diverge from the EU, and other areas where the UK won't.  But if that means that some potatoes are OK to cross borders while others aren't, it does suggest that the deal generally calls for a lot more bureaucracy than importers and exporters have had to deal with in the past.  2,000 pages here we come.

 

Of course, this could be random oul' shite from someone who doesn't know what they're talking about. 

[Ulysses]

8 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

All negotiations eventually reduce to trivia. Which is how they eventually conclude.

 

In my experience, trivia tends to feature in the wrap-up or "post-negotiation" phase of an agreement.  Maybe the fact that they're talking trivia is a good sign.

[NANOJAMBO]

4 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

I saw something odd on Twitter tonight.  It's been presented as a "the English don't give a shite about the Scots" issue, which maybe it is (though I don't think so).  What is more interesting is what the technical issue says about how messy and complex the deal might be.

 

Apparently, the UK and EU have agreed that potatoes for eating can be imported into the EU from the UK, but seed potatoes can't.  Seed potatoes are small business in most of the UK, but are a big export for Scottish farmers (I wasn't aware of this, but there you go).

 

Leaving aside the Scottish angle, it appears that the reason for the difference in treatment is because there are some areas of plant health control where the UK will be able to diverge from the EU, and other areas where the UK won't.  But if that means that some potatoes are OK to cross borders while others aren't, it does suggest that the deal generally calls for a lot more bureaucracy than importers and exporters have had to deal with in the past.  2,000 pages here we come.

 

Of course, this could be random oul' shite from someone who doesn't know what they're talking about. 

That's a given - hence the shortage of circa 50K customs agents regularly being mentioned on Twitter over the last 3 months. Brexit was dressed up (as amongst other things) meaning less bureacracy when it clearly would mean the total opposite.  It's just a question of how big the Brexit overhead is on any particular exporter. 

 

On a side note, I've been reading reports that Boris  refused to join the EU scheme for the Covid vaccine purchase and decided it was better for the country to show it's new found independence by paying double per dose what the EU does. Another Brexit dividend. The gift that keeps on costing. 

[Ulysses]

7 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

That's a given - hence the shortage of circa 50K customs agents regularly being mentioned on Twitter over the last 3 months. Brexit was dressed up (as amongst other things) meaning less bureacracy when it clearly would mean the total opposite.  It's just a question of how big the Brexit overhead is on any particular exporter. 

 

On a side note, I've been reading reports that Boris  refused to join the EU scheme for the Covid vaccine purchase and decided it was better for the country to show it's new found independence by paying double per dose what the EU does. Another Brexit dividend. The gift that keeps on costing. 

 

Yep to the point highlighted in bold.  A lot depends on who you are and what sector you're in.

 

The EU managed to save a good bit of money per dose of vaccine compared to the UK.  But there is talk (courtesy of an article in Der Spiegel) that the purchase agreements made by the EU will mean that the delivery to the population will be a bit slower than in the UK.  There's probably not a huge difference in terms of time, but people won't like it if it is the case.

[Francis Albert]

10 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

That's a given - hence the shortage of circa 50K customs agents regularly being mentioned on Twitter over the last 3 months. Brexit was dressed up (as amongst other things) meaning less bureacracy when it clearly would mean the total opposite.  It's just a question of how big the Brexit overhead is on any particular exporter. 

 

On a side note, I've been reading reports that Boris  refused to join the EU scheme for the Covid vaccine purchase and decided it was better for the country to show it's new found independence by paying double per dose what the EU does. Another Brexit dividend. The gift that keeps on costing. 

The UK does seem.to.be a bit of ahead of the game on vaccine purchases.

[NANOJAMBO]

4 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

The UK does seem.to.be a bit of ahead of the game on vaccine purchases.

Good - seeing as Boris is paying double for it, which is my point & which you ignored just to make a random comment. 

[Francis Albert]

13 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

Good - seeing as Boris is paying double for it, which is my point & which you ignored just to make a random comment. 

Didn't ignore your point just missed it. Sorry but what is the source for saying we are paying twice as much as others? Leaving aside the question of whether that might  not be a bad idea.

Edited December 23, 2020 by Francis Albert

[ri Alban]

5 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

We have been told for months if not years that the objective of Boris and his backers was no deal Brexit.

Did you see Dover. Boris and Co shat it and the French now have them by the baws. England surrenders again. 

[ri Alban]

5 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

We have been told for months if not years that the objective of Boris and his backers was no deal Brexit.

Not long til the Auld Alliance is re-established. 

 

 

Tick Tock!!! 

[ri Alban]

 

Silly Boris and the French shake on deal. 

 

And just remember Britland, don't gie us any of your pish or else. 

Edited December 24, 2020 by ri Alban

[manaliveits105]

Great brinkmanship by UK government 

now we can move on 🇬🇧

no doubt our resident nats and reds will pick over the bones with their usual negativity  but the good Scottish people can get on with beating the virus then telling Sturgeon to ram her indyref2 and start living again .

( there isn’t half some sanctimonious weirdos on jkb by the way better ignored GFY)

 

[The Mighty Thor]

38 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

Great brinkmanship by UK government 

now we can move on 🇬🇧

no doubt our resident nats and reds will pick over the bones with their usual negativity  but the good Scottish people can get on with beating the virus then telling Sturgeon to ram her indyref2 and start living again .

( there isn’t half some sanctimonious weirdos on jkb by the way better ignored GFY)

 

Yip. 

 

4 years to shite it at the last minute and cave in on all your red lines.

 

Twice in less than a week that Macron has taken the Benny Hill tribute act's pants down and shown him where the real continental power sits. 

 

4 years to 'agree' a trade deal that is significantly worse than the deal we already had. 

 

Yip we can finally move on to them sunlit uplands. 👍 

[Ainsley Harriott]

43 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

Great brinkmanship by UK government 

now we can move on 🇬🇧

no doubt our resident nats and reds will pick over the bones with their usual negativity  but the good Scottish people can get on with beating the virus then telling Sturgeon to ram her indyref2 and start living again .

( there isn’t half some sanctimonious weirdos on jkb by the way better ignored GFY)

 

I'm sure the Nats have read the 500 page agreement in detail and are ready to assure us it's a rubbish deal

[Ainsley Harriott]

8 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

We have been told for months if not years that the objective of Boris and his backers was no deal Brexit.

Yip you were being told lies by the Nats in order to drum up fear and division 

[The Mighty Thor]

46 minutes ago, Ainsley Harriott said:

I'm sure the Nats have read the 500 page agreement in detail and are ready to assure us it's a rubbish deal

I'm sure the ERG, Labour, the 'Nats' will read the 500 pages, and the other 1500 too, and then draw conclusions from it.

After all its the second great 'oven ready deal' the serial liar has brought to the table. 

[Ainsley Harriott]

5 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

I'm sure the ERG, Labour, the 'Nats' will read the 500 pages, and the other 1500 too, and then draw conclusions from it.

After all its the second great 'oven ready deal' the serial liar has brought to the table. 

Sturgeon wasn't involved in the negotiations was she?

[manaliveits105]

5 minutes ago, Ainsley Harriott said:

Sturgeon wasn't involved in the negotiations was she?

[Harry Potter]

1 hour ago, manaliveits105 said:

Great brinkmanship by UK government 

now we can move on 🇬🇧

no doubt our resident nats and reds will pick over the bones with their usual negativity  but the good Scottish people can get on with beating the virus then telling Sturgeon to ram her indyref2 and start living again .

( there isn’t half some sanctimonious weirdos on jkb by the way better ignored GFY)

 

just waiting on the news, 

[pablo]

I genuinely thought we were heading for a hard brexit, so if they get this over the line, you'd have to say well done to both sides for keeping on going.

 

 

[Harry Potter]

4 minutes ago, pablo said:

I genuinely thought we were heading for a hard brexit, so if they get this over the line, you'd have to say well done to both sides for keeping on going.

 

 

Aye Pablo, better late than never.

[ri Alban]

🤣 Team GB held all the cards.

Macron "Haud ma, Feck it , sure you did"

 

 

A bad deal is better than a no deal, is the brexiteers new battle cry. 

 

 

Scotland can now go full independence with full access to the EU and our old overlords. The SNP are like  The fools... 

[Costanza]

10 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

We have been told for months if not years that the objective of Boris and his backers was no deal Brexit.

That's certainly what I thought so fair enough if they get a deal over the line, I will have got that wrong.

Whether a Biden victory and recent events in Kent have moved things is open to question.

However, the deal hasn't been signed off, it will give Parliaments hardly any time to scrutinise and likely the UK Government will renege on elements of it.

It will still be a very hard Brexit and the impact will be felt a lot deeper than just a hit on GDP.

[Costanza]

3 hours ago, manaliveits105 said:

Great brinkmanship by UK government 

now we can move on 🇬🇧

no doubt our resident nats and reds will pick over the bones with their usual negativity  but the good Scottish people can get on with beating the virus then telling Sturgeon to ram her indyref2 and start living again .

( there isn’t half some sanctimonious weirdos on jkb by the way better ignored GFY)

 

Can I just say as the year draws to a close, my admiration for your persistence on this parody account.

I'd have got bored long ago with this kind of thing but your indefatigability in many ways, exemplifies the very best of Britain.

[pablo]

10 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

🤣 Team GB held all the cards.

Macron "Haud ma, Feck it , sure you did"

 

 

A bad deal is better than a no deal, is the brexiteers new battle cry. 

 

 

Scotland can now go full independence with full access to the EU and our old overlords. The SNP are like  The fools... 

 

I was a full on remainer ri Alban. But I don't think you've thought this through. Ask yourself this, if Brexit was likely to increase the chances of Scottish independence why would The SNP have been fighting against the result tooth and nail, from the morning after the result, through the courts and to Sturgeon demanding an extension to the transition period just this week?

[The Real Maroonblood]

2 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Yip. 

 

4 years to shite it at the last minute and cave in on all your red lines.

 

Twice in less than a week that Macron has taken the Benny Hill tribute act's pants down and shown him where the real continental power sits. 

 

4 years to 'agree' a trade deal that is significantly worse than the deal we already had. 

 

Yip we can finally move on to them sunlit uplands. 👍 

[The Real Maroonblood]

3 minutes ago, Costanza said:

Can I just say as the year draws to a close, my admiration for your persistence on this parody account.

I'd have got bored long ago with this kind of thing but your indefatigability in many ways, exemplifies the very best of Britain.

[Harry Potter]

18 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

🤣 Team GB held all the cards.

Macron "Haud ma, Feck it , sure you did"

 

 

A bad deal is better than a no deal, is the brexiteers new battle cry. 

 

 

Scotland can now go full independence with full access to the EU and our old overlords. The SNP are like  The fools... 

Good morning pal🥶

[Mikey1874]

3 hours ago, manaliveits105 said:

Great brinkmanship by UK government 

now we can move on 🇬🇧

no doubt our resident nats and reds will pick over the bones with their usual negativity  but the good Scottish people can get on with beating the virus then telling Sturgeon to ram her indyref2 and start living again .

( there isn’t half some sanctimonious weirdos on jkb by the way better ignored GFY)

 

 

Lots of reading through and getting used to often minutue but crucial detail. Lots of examples of life being harder to come. 

 

From the more simple single market, customs union and free movement. 

[Mikey1874]

1 hour ago, pablo said:

I genuinely thought we were heading for a hard brexit, so if they get this over the line, you'd have to say well done to both sides for keeping on going.

 

 

 

A lot of commentators are saying it IS a hard Brexit.

 

Lots still to agree too including financial services. 

[pablo]

Just now, Mikey1874 said:

 

A lot of commentators are saying it IS a hard Brexit.

 

Lots still to agree too including financial services. 

 

It can't be what was being called a hard brexit if trade between the EU and UK will be conducted without tariffs or quotas on goods.

 

 

[Governor Tarkin]

2 hours ago, Ainsley Harriott said:

Sturgeon wasn't involved in the negotiations was she?

 

 

[Justin Z]

48 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

I was a full on remainer ri Alban. But I don't think you've thought this through. Ask yourself this, if Brexit was likely to increase the chances of Scottish independence why would The SNP have been fighting against the result tooth and nail, from the morning after the result, through the courts and to Sturgeon demanding an extension to the transition period just this week?

 

Pretty simple. Because the common unionist line that the SNP care not a jot about Scotland or its wellbeing, but solely about independence, is actually a load of delusional bollocks.

 

The party of Machiavelli is the Tories. Their shambles speaks for itself; independence doesn't need everything to burn down to make its case.

[hughesie27]

59 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

I was a full on remainer ri Alban. But I don't think you've thought this through. Ask yourself this, if Brexit was likely to increase the chances of Scottish independence why would The SNP have been fighting against the result tooth and nail, from the morning after the result, through the courts and to Sturgeon demanding an extension to the transition period just this week?

It's just a bit of irony. The perfect storm for SNP. They must try to fight against Brexit knowing that 2 out of 3 people up here don't want it. They also know they have 0 power or ability to actually stop anything so they can shout as loud and for as long as they like. But at the same time they also know that the bigger the feck up the easier it will be to persuade people round to thinking that there has to be a better way.

 

If they came out at supported brexit then they'd be putting themselves in the firing line for any hiccups.

Edited December 24, 2020 by hughesie27

[Mikey1874]

EU has been good for living standards

 

My main hope is a flood of cheap imports to bring down prices. Which will help modernise farming etc. 

[Cade]

Seems that the UK totally caved in about the fish.

25% of fish value transferred from EU to UK quotas over a 5 year period.

Which was the EU's starting position in negotiations.

 

UK started demanding 100% then 60% then 50% then 35% then accepted the 25% offer.

 

[pablo]

32 minutes ago, Cade said:

Seems that the UK totally caved in about the fish.

25% of fish value transferred from EU to UK quotas over a 5 year period.

Which was the EU's starting position in negotiations.

 

UK started demanding 100% then 60% then 50% then 35% then accepted the 25% offer.

 

 

Is that not quite a good deal? Especially for Scotland. Immediate 25% increase, then after 5 years the UK sets the new arrangement with no impact on other quotas and tariffs. 5 years for Scottish fleet and infrastructure to scale up.

 

 

[Harry Potter]

2 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

Is that not quite a good deal? Especially for Scotland. Immediate 25% increase, then after 5 years the UK sets the new arrangement with no impact on other quotas and tariffs. 5 years for Scottish fleet and infrastructure to scale up.

 

 

What about throwing dead fish back, crazy practice.

[Francis Albert]

1 hour ago, Cade said:

Seems that the UK totally caved in about the fish.

25% of fish value transferred from EU to UK quotas over a 5 year period.

Which was the EU's starting position in negotiations.

 

UK started demanding 100% then 60% then 50% then 35% then accepted the 25% offer.

 

Not the full story is it? I seem to remember an EU starting position of a 10 year transition. Maybe longer?

Edited December 24, 2020 by Francis Albert