Brexit Deal agreed ( updated )

[Ainsley Harriott]

4 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Agreed. My post was directed at those who have been telling us all  year that Boris wanted no deal because his "backers" would benefit from it. Posturing I think is wrong. He had to be willing or appear to be willing to accept no deal otherwise he had no negotiating position.

Absolutely much as Boris is pretty eccentric and blustering he isn't stupid 

[Lone Striker]

31 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Good, now we can beat covid and then get Scotland back into the EU properly. 

 

Tick Tock! 

😉 .....   which of those do you think will happen first ?  

 

 

[Mikey1874]

By the way, well done to all the businesses, which seem to be the majority that didn't prepare at all for No Deal.  That didn't waste £millions on contingencies. 

[ri Alban]

7 minutes ago, Lone Striker said:

😉 .....   which of those do you think will happen first ?  

 

 

Covid, Indy, EU. As Boris said, if it's good for Britain to go its own way on things, why not Scotland. 

Tell me, why is the EU shite but the UK isn't, is that because England is top dog in the UK but just a wee rat in the EU. 

[ri Alban]

Hopefully come Jan 1, Nigel the prick is never heard from again. 

[Ainsley Harriott]

34 minutes ago, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said:

If Scotland wants independence, we'll get it. Don't need to wait for a generation, or Westminster.

Just how exactly will they go about it?

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

5 minutes ago, Ainsley Harriott said:

Just how exactly will they go about it?

Obviously through the ballot box.

[Victorian]

10 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Hopefully come Jan 1, Nigel the prick is never heard from again. 

 

Didn't he reinvent himself as an anti-lockdown champion for his latest nice little earner?

[Mikey1874]

 

[ri Alban]

15 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Didn't he reinvent himself as an anti-lockdown champion for his latest nice little earner?

Probably, he's a crook. 

[SwindonJambo]

44 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Hopefully come Jan 1, Nigel the prick is never heard from again. 

I think even quite  a lot of leavers hold that view. He's an attention seeking weasel so he'll keep attaching himself to extreme causes to get himself noticed. He's an arse. Even Bawjaws has little time for him.

[Ulysses]

30 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

 

 

[Francis Albert]

Seen a bit in the papers about Boris having to deal with the ERG and the hard brexiteers. They are now an irrelevance.

[Ainsley Harriott]

1 hour ago, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said:

Obviously through the ballot box.

Advisory referendums (opinion polls) won't get independence. No chance of a legally binding one anytime soon 

[Mikey1874]

No idea is this is true. But an indication the Deal is not the same as free market and Customs Union.

 

 

 

 

[Toxteth O'Grady]

16% more fish after 5 years and Boris saying he will invest in the fleet and processors to handle that. The industry could handle that now  without any problems. 

[RobboM]

Boris Johnson celebrate Brexit deal ....
😂

[Mikey1874]

 

[Mikey1874]

We're not getting No Deal.

 

But there still big problems for the Government if we get a lot of negative stories from January about people's experience in business, travel, access to services etc. 

 

With Covid likely to mean a more or less full lockdown from January to March, it's a dangerous time for the Conservatives. 

[Ulysses]

9 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

No idea is this is true. But an indication the Deal is not the same as free market and Customs Union.

 

 

 

 

 

All transactions between the EU and the UK will be subject to checks (customs, plant and animal health) but they will be simplified in some cases.  The EU retains the right to unilaterally decide if the UK is not matching its required standards on plant and animal health and on data protection, and vice versa.

 

[The Real Maroonblood]

1 minute ago, Mikey1874 said:

We're not getting No Deal.

 

But there still big problems for the Government if we get a lot of negative stories from January about people's experience in business, travel, access to services etc. 

 

With Covid likely to mean a more or less full lockdown from January to March, it's a dangerous time for the Conservatives. 

[Ulysses]

2 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

We're not getting No Deal.

 

But there still big problems for the Government if we get a lot of negative stories from January about people's experience in business, travel, access to services etc. 

 

With Covid likely to mean a more or less full lockdown from January to March, it's a dangerous time for the Conservatives. 

 

Short-term travel is unlikely to be a problem, and movement of skilled key labour won't be an issue either.  But the agreement means a considerable loss of rights as regards movement and working between the blocs (except for Irish citizens).

[NANOJAMBO]

1 minute ago, Ulysses said:

 

All transactions between the EU and the UK will be subject to checks (customs, plant and animal health) but they will be simplified in some cases.  The EU retains the right to unilaterally decide if the UK is not matching its required standards on plant and animal health and on data protection, and vice versa.

 

So much for "taking back control".

[Ulysses]

Just now, NANOJAMBO said:

So much for "taking back control".

 

The UK can also unilaterally decide if the EU isn't matching its standards.

[Mikey1874]

One summary of the Deal. If its correct, quite informative.

 

 

[NANOJAMBO]

4 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

We're not getting No Deal.

 

But there still big problems for the Government if we get a lot of negative stories from January about people's experience in business, travel, access to services etc. 

 

With Covid likely to mean a more or less full lockdown from January to March, it's a dangerous time for the Conservatives. 

Plenty of negative stories so far but the media has chosen not to report on them : massive impact/overhead on all businesses that export to the EU already , major job losses, big hit to GDP, chronic lack of customs agents (who have slowly been going extinct since the 1970s) to do the essential paperwork required .  That's before the actual impact of leaving hits.

 

The Road Haulage Assoc has been withering it its criticism - so much so, Gove bailed out of the last planned meeting and sent junior ministers to face their wrath. The RHA went public with withering criticism of him/the govt/lack of preparedness/lack of access to planned new IT systems  (will only get access after Xmas - last time I read). 

[NANOJAMBO]

9 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

The UK can also unilaterally decide if the EU isn't matching its standards.

Well, well, well. 

They fudged the EUCJ issues then. 

[NANOJAMBO]

36 minutes ago, Ainsley Harriott said:

Advisory referendums (opinion polls) won't get independence. No chance of a legally binding one anytime soon 

It got us Brexit. And that WAS dressed up as "indpendence day". 

 

NS should just copy the Brexit playbook and ask London why it's OK for Brexit but not independence. 

[Francis Albert]

8 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

Well, well, well. 

They fudged the EUCJ issues then. 

As I understand it it wasn't fudged. An alternative to EUCJ was agreed. Along the lines of other trade agreements.

[Mikey1874]

Fish and seed potatoes.

 

Curious times ahead. 

[Ainsley Harriott]

11 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

It got us Brexit. And that WAS dressed up as "indpendence day". 

 

NS should just copy the Brexit playbook and ask London why it's OK for Brexit but not independence. 

Maybe if she had dressed the last one up as less of a once in a life time opportunity she might have an argument.

[Ulysses]

15 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

Well, well, well. 

They fudged the EUCJ issues then. 

 

I think there's a provision for both a dispute resolution procedure and unilateral retaliatory measures.  I'm also not sure yet if the plant and animal health stuff is covered by dispute resolution.  The EU infographic suggests it isn't.

[Justin Z]

3 minutes ago, Ainsley Harriott said:

Maybe if she had dressed the last one up as less of a once in a life time opportunity she might have an argument.

 

[Mikey1874]

Another summary of the Deal

 

 

[Francis Albert]

4 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

I think there's a provision for both a dispute resolution procedure and unilateral retaliatory measures.  I'm also not sure yet if the plant and animal health stuff is covered by dispute resolution.  The EU infographic suggests it isn't.

Infographic? 

Not sure why we need a 2000 page agreement if it can be summed up with a dozen ticks and crosses.

No doubt the other side could (and probabably will) produce a similar "infographic".

[Mikey1874]

3 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Infographic? 

Not sure why we need a 2000 page agreement if it can be summed up with a dozen ticks and crosses.

No doubt the other side could (and probabably will) produce a similar "infographic".

 

One that says we have free movement and easy access to work? 

[Don Dan]

I think by leaving the EU we have done ourselves a great harm. There are no plus sides to this other than stupid pride. IMO

[Lone Striker]

37 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

Fish and seed potatoes.

 

Curious times ahead. 

Aye - who'd have thunked that a trade deal would go down to differentiating between edible and seed potatoes !!   

 

Surely farmers who grow seed potatoes can switch to another crop fairly easily and at low cost, if their EU market for seed tatties has collapsed  ? 

 

 

[Francis Albert]

34 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

One that says we have free movement and easy access to work? 

Obviously not. But what proportion of the UK population benefitted from freedom of movement and easy access to work? 2%? And access  to work will still exist it will just be somewhat less easy.

 

[Lone Striker]

3 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

I have always said you need to wait to see what Brexit brings over 2 to 3 years before deciding if Scotland has lost out.

 

So any referendum on independence should be 2023 at earliest. 

 

Though I do understand there are other arguments in favour.

 

If we get cheaper imports for example to improve the standard of living that's another problem for the SNP/ Independence movement alongside the currency and the deficit. 

👍That seems an eminently sensible approach for those voters who aren't handcuffed to dogma on either side. 

 

   Whether you like it or not, Brexit  has happened and the effectiveness of the Trade Deal (if ratified) needs some time before it can be judged as a decent substitute for membership or not.

 

Regarding imports, I heard an interesting thing on the radio last year about how  the experience of NZ farmers when the UK joined the Common Market back in the 70s was one of horror - we were a huge market for their lamb, which immediately attracted a 40% tariff when we joined.   Demand in the UK dropped considerably, and the NZ farmers had to find new markets - which they did with the help of the NZ government,  although it took more than 10 years.     A similar adapt-to-survive project will be relevant  now for several UK industries - but it would help enormously if we (the British public) adjusted some of our purchasing habits to support them instead of just looking for cheaper imported stuff all the time.

 

 

 

milar 

 

 

[Malinga the Swinga]

Those who dislike Boris, wanted to remain in EU and hate Tories will criticise deal without understanding it. 

Those who like Boris, wanted to leave EU will like deal without understanding it. 

Those who are Tories but wanted No Deal will criticise deal without understanding it. 

The rest of us, who generally just want to get on with their lives won't understand it but don't really care. 

[Mikey1874]

11 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Those who dislike Boris, wanted to remain in EU and hate Tories will criticise deal without understanding it. 

Those who like Boris, wanted to leave EU will like deal without understanding it. 

Those who are Tories but wanted No Deal will criticise deal without understanding it. 

The rest of us, who generally just want to get on with their lives won't understand it but don't really care. 

 

Just reflecting back your own limited viewpoint. 

[Mikey1874]

 

[Enzo Chiefo]

2 hours ago, NANOJAMBO said:

Well, well, well. 

They fudged the EUCJ issues then. 

No  the dreaded EUCJ have no jurisdiction. Any dispute would go to independent arbitration.

[Enzo Chiefo]

46 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Those who dislike Boris, wanted to remain in EU and hate Tories will criticise deal without understanding it. 

Those who like Boris, wanted to leave EU will like deal without understanding it. 

Those who are Tories but wanted No Deal will criticise deal without understanding it. 

The rest of us, who generally just want to get on with their lives won't understand it but don't really care. 

If Sturgeon - embarrassing herself with the old self- entitled straw -clutching grievances - and Alastair Campbell think it's a bad deal, then we can be sure it's a deal worth supporting.  Well done Boris!

[Konrad von Carstein]

49 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Those who dislike Boris, wanted to remain in EU and hate Tories will criticise deal without understanding it. 

Those who like Boris, wanted to leave EU will like deal without understanding it. 

Those who are Tories but wanted No Deal will criticise deal without understanding it. 

The rest of us, who generally just want to get on with their lives won't understand it but don't really care. 

And those of us who have had long held retirement hopes and ideas destroyed due to English/Welsh exceptionalism and dislike of forriners coming to are country will also criticise it...

[Francis Albert]

19 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

No  the dreaded EUCJ have no jurisdiction. Any dispute would go to independent arbitration.

The idea that the EUCJ  would have jurisdiction was always one if the more absurd positions adopted by the EU. 

[Enzo Chiefo]

2 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

The idea that the EUCJ  would have jurisdiction was always one if the more absurd positions adopted by the EU. 

Absolutely,  yes. Thankfully they've been sidelined. 

[Mikey1874]

 

[GinRummy]

40 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

And those of us who have had long held retirement hopes and ideas destroyed due to English/Welsh exceptionalism and dislike of forriners coming to are country will also criticise it...

Surely you could still retire to an EU country?