Brexit Deal agreed ( updated )

[Mikey1874]

 

Christmas cancelled for a lot of journalists and commentators. 

Edited December 24, 2020 by Mikey1874

[Konrad von Carstein]

1 minute ago, GinRummy said:

Surely you could still retire to an EU country? 

I think (stress on the word think) we are restricted to 90 days in a 180 day period...so away for 3 months back to Scotland for 3 months & repeat...Not what I had in mind for retiring after working since I was 16.

Things may change as things develop as I suppose UK retirees are easy money for EU countries...

[GinRummy]

3 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

I think (stress on the word think) we are restricted to 90 days in a 180 day period...so away for 3 months back to Scotland for 3 months & repeat...Not what I had in mind for retiring after working since I was 16.

Things may change as things develop as I suppose UK retirees are easy money for EU countries...

Was more thinking that people retire from the UK to non EU countries so surely there’d be a way. Not sure how it all works, residency visas and all that, but there’s maybe still a bit of hope. I’m 50 and the idea has been at the back of my mind as well, though nothing more than that.

Edited December 24, 2020 by GinRummy

[Mikey1874]

1 minute ago, GinRummy said:

Was more thinking that people retire from the UK to non EU countries so surely there’d be a way. Not sure how it all works, residency visas and all that, but there’s maybe still a bit of hope. I’m 50 and the idea has been at the back of my mind as well, though nothing more than that.

 

Usually you need a certain amount of money in the bank. Also can be age restrictions. 

[Mikey1874]

Who knew Scotland was a world leader in seed potatoes. 

 

This is going to be educational. 

[GinRummy]

11 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Usually you need a certain amount of money in the bank. Also can be age restrictions. 

Done a super quick google search. USA want you to invest 500,000 dollars in an approved U.S enterprise. Barbados want you to prove you can support yourself and even say you can get your UK pension paid into a Barbados bank account, they don’t want you to do paid work is their main caveat. Be interesting to see how the EU approach it 

 

Edit. Both in relation to retiring 

Edited December 24, 2020 by GinRummy

[Konrad von Carstein]

Just now, GinRummy said:

Done a super quick google search. USA want you to invest 500,000 dollars in an approved U.S enterprise. Barbados want you to prove you can support yourself and even say you can get your UK pension paid into a Barbados bank account, they don’t want you to do paid work is their main caveat. Be interesting to see how the EU approach it 

 

Hopefully it moves on from the Cost del Crime days...

 

Wife is Polish and currently they have a 2 year renewable visa for spouses of Polish citizens (she has dual passports and is a UK citizen) weather over there can be glorious from late March through to September...3 or 4 years before this becomes an issue to be addressed so will have to see how things develop, Scottish independence though = gamechanger  

[NANOJAMBO]

31 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

 

Hopefully it moves on from the Cost del Crime days...

 

Wife is Polish and currently they have a 2 year renewable visa for spouses of Polish citizens (she has dual passports and is a UK citizen) weather over there can be glorious from late March through to September...3 or 4 years before this becomes an issue to be addressed so will have to see how things develop, Scottish independence though = gamechanger  

Me & the missus are looking to get out of Brexitopia and have been looking at property in the borders. If Scotland grows a set & goes for it we are agreed we will move back. 

[Enzo Chiefo]

42 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

Was more thinking that people retire from the UK to non EU countries so surely there’d be a way. Not sure how it all works, residency visas and all that, but there’s maybe still a bit of hope. I’m 50 and the idea has been at the back of my mind as well, though nothing more than that.

You can apply for residency,  certainly in Spain,  and if you have a car, house or a bank account there then you will require an NIE number, equivalent to our NI. I think it's just a case of making a commitment to live there and it seems to be those who would split their time that would be affected most. I'm sure it was always the case that if you spent more than 184 days abroad you had to commit to the tax jurisdiction in that country, with or without residency. 

[NANOJAMBO]

1 hour ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

No  the dreaded EUCJ have no jurisdiction. Any dispute would go to independent arbitration.

That's my point. 

[Enzo Chiefo]

Just now, NANOJAMBO said:

That's my point. 

👍

[Ulysses]

2 hours ago, Lone Striker said:

Aye - who'd have thunked that a trade deal would go down to differentiating between edible and seed potatoes !!   

 

Surely farmers who grow seed potatoes can switch to another crop fairly easily and at low cost, if their EU market for seed tatties has collapsed  ? 

 

 

 

Apparently this is a bit specialised, and it's also climate-assisted, so it's something Scotland has some experts in doing - though Ireland can also step into the breach as can one or two other countries in the northern part of the EU.  I'd reckon that the farmers involved would prefer not to have to switch from a product where they have an inbuilt advantage to one where they don't.  This is a concession to the EU which is very small in London, but is a pretty big deal in Perthshire, Moray, Angus and West Aberdeenshire.  Most of the farmers affected are likely to be Tory voters as well.

 

[NANOJAMBO]

1 hour ago, GinRummy said:

Surely you could still retire to an EU country? 

Sure - if you meet the income criteria (most will ) and can afford the £300 monthly health insurance for a couple (which a lot will not) because there's no reciprocal agreement on health costs because Brexiters were fed up with Europeans spongeing off the NHS. 

[NANOJAMBO]

5 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

👍

The bias is strong tonight. 

[NANOJAMBO]

3 hours ago, Ainsley Harriott said:

Maybe if she had dressed the last one up as less of a once in a life time opportunity she might have an argument.

I don't live in Scotland (yet), I'm not a fan of NS or the SNP but I know and you know those words have absolutely no legal weight or meaning whatsoever. 

They carry no more weight than "dying in a ditch", "oven ready deal" ,  "no deal is better than a bad deal" or "£300M per day/week/whatever  for the NHS" painted on the side of a big red bus. 

[NANOJAMBO]

4 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

Fish and seed potatoes.

 

Curious times ahead. 

Anything on financial passports for London ? 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 hour ago, GinRummy said:

Was more thinking that people retire from the UK to non EU countries so surely there’d be a way. Not sure how it all works, residency visas and all that, but there’s maybe still a bit of hope. I’m 50 and the idea has been at the back of my mind as well, though nothing more than that.

It tends to work if you have a lot of money in your retirement pot.  Health insurance would be one of the critical issues due to the very nature of those wanting to retire who would be older and may have health issues.  Incredibly before the EU people did retire to European countries.  There will be ways and means. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

Sorry to be blunt here but some people are living in fantasy politics on this.  The EU do not want any other countries leaving the EU so they are highly unlikely to give favorable concessions to Brits wanting to retire to Spain and other countries.  They want to discourage countries from level by any means possible. LIke i said if you have plenty money in the bank and a decent pension that may count ( it always has ) Money talks.  But as others have also said Spain in particular needs it immigrants sorry " ex pats" apparently. Although Im not quite sure how much they add to the local economies in Spain as they always seem to be searching for the cheapest pint of San Miquel and cheap " Ingles" food.  

[Ulysses]

[Mikey1874]

10 hours ago, JamesM48 said:

Sorry to be blunt here but some people are living in fantasy politics on this.  The EU do not want any other countries leaving the EU so they are highly unlikely to give favorable concessions to Brits wanting to retire to Spain and other countries.  They want to discourage countries from level by any means possible. LIke i said if you have plenty money in the bank and a decent pension that may count ( it always has ) Money talks.  But as others have also said Spain in particular needs it immigrants sorry " ex pats" apparently. Although Im not quite sure how much they add to the local economies in Spain as they always seem to be searching for the cheapest pint of San Miquel and cheap " Ingles" food.  

 

So we're reliant on global warming then. 

[Mikey1874]

11 hours ago, NANOJAMBO said:

Anything on financial passports for London ? 

 

Gone. No more. 

 

Just need to set up your business in Europe. Bigger than the health service but might not be for long as European competition take a lot of the business.

 

 

Edited December 25, 2020 by Mikey1874

[Konrad von Carstein]

10 hours ago, JamesM48 said:

Sorry to be blunt here but some people are living in fantasy politics on this.  The EU do not want any other countries leaving the EU so they are highly unlikely to give favorable concessions to Brits wanting to retire to Spain and other countries.  They want to discourage countries from level by any means possible. LIke i said if you have plenty money in the bank and a decent pension that may count ( it always has ) Money talks.  But as others have also said Spain in particular needs it immigrants sorry " ex pats" apparently. Although Im not quite sure how much they add to the local economies in Spain as they always seem to be searching for the cheapest pint of San Miquel and cheap " Ingles" food.  

Decent summary of my thoughts and concerns.

[Seymour M Hersh]

12 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

Who knew Scotland was a world leader in seed potatoes. 

 

This is going to be educational. 

 

That'll be her new "it's Scoatlans Oil" mantra. They're Scoatlan's seed potatoes. Has a certain ring to tbh. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

24 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

Decent summary of my thoughts and concerns.

Cheers. Yes Brexit is a complete and utter cluster **** . We got into all this mess due to internal arguments within the Tory party for decades and now we are well and truly in the s*** due to that.  No one really had much of an interest in whether we were in the EU or out until it became an issue by them.  I suppose one positive it was the downfall of a few Tory trash PMs like Thatcher , Major ( although slightly more likeable) and Cameron and May.  Yes I do feel for young people who have lost the chance to study and work abroad without going through various loopholes.  Also for people who had planned in retiring to " their place in the sun". However no sympathy for the substantial amount of " ex pats" who live in Spain and actually voted for it !  That just didn't make any sense on any level.   Anyway have a good day today. 

[Konrad von Carstein]

8 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Cheers. Yes Brexit is a complete and utter cluster **** . We got into all this mess due to internal arguments within the Tory party for decades and now we are well and truly in the s*** due to that.  No one really had much of an interest in whether we were in the EU or out until it became an issue by them.  I suppose one positive it was the downfall of a few Tory trash PMs like Thatcher , Major ( although slightly more likeable) and Cameron and May.  Yes I do feel for young people who have lost the chance to study and work abroad without going through various loopholes.  Also for people who had planned in retiring to " their place in the sun". However no sympathy for the substantial amount of " ex pats" who live in Spain and actually voted for it !  That just didn't make any sense on any level.   Anyway have a good day today. 

My mate in Cyprus knows several of this type of selfish idiot!

 

Enjoy your day too...

[GinRummy]

56 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

That'll be her new "it's Scoatlans Oil" mantra. They're Scoatlan's seed potatoes. Has a certain ring to tbh. 

Joking aside, we do seem to have plenty stuff worth exporting. 

[Seymour M Hersh]

9 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

Joking aside, we do seem to have plenty stuff worth exporting. 

 

Your first name for one. 

[Lone Striker]

15 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

No  the dreaded EUCJ have no jurisdiction. Any dispute would go to independent arbitration.

What... like the SFA does ?   🙄  We all know how that usually ends up ......

[GinRummy]

8 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Your first name for one. 

Exactly. I wasn’t aware until recently that there were quite so many Scottish gins around. Looking forward to trying the Eden Mill one tomorrow while watching the game . An increasing number of countries seem to be producing vodka as well. Quite a few highly rated American ones these days. Wonder if there’ll be a Scottish vodka soon. 
 

edit. Scrap that, just googled it and there are already Scottish vodkas. Need to goggle first and post after. 

Edited December 25, 2020 by GinRummy

[Lone Striker]

13 hours ago, Ulysses said:

 

Apparently this is a bit specialised, and it's also climate-assisted, so it's something Scotland has some experts in doing - though Ireland can also step into the breach as can one or two other countries in the northern part of the EU.  I'd reckon that the farmers involved would prefer not to have to switch from a product where they have an inbuilt advantage to one where they don't.  This is a concession to the EU which is very small in London, but is a pretty big deal in Perthshire, Moray, Angus and West Aberdeenshire.  Most of the farmers affected are likely to be Tory voters as well.

 

Oh well...... Douglas Ross will have to be prepared to take some incoming  flak for that from fermers, some in his own constituency.  Apparently China is the world's biggest consumer of tatties and (strangely) rely a fair bit on  imported seed tatties to produce the crops.  Maybe the Scottish fermers are already exporting to China  ?       Lots of niche producers may have to bite the bullet and diversify if they can.

[Enzo Chiefo]

12 hours ago, JamesM48 said:

Sorry to be blunt here but some people are living in fantasy politics on this.  The EU do not want any other countries leaving the EU so they are highly unlikely to give favorable concessions to Brits wanting to retire to Spain and other countries.  They want to discourage countries from level by any means possible. LIke i said if you have plenty money in the bank and a decent pension that may count ( it always has ) Money talks.  But as others have also said Spain in particular needs it immigrants sorry " ex pats" apparently. Although Im not quite sure how much they add to the local economies in Spain as they always seem to be searching for the cheapest pint of San Miquel and cheap " Ingles" food.  

But this is where we conflate the EU, the political institutuon, and the individual countries. 20% of German cars exports go to the UK, for example and thousands of jobs depend on that trade. Probably part of the reason why Merkel intervened  late on to sideline Macron and Barnier, in order to smooth the path to a deal. Spain most certainly does rely on Btitish tourism as well as on the ex-pats. There are thousands of Norwegians, Chinese and Russians living and working, many with businesses, in mainland Spain. None of whom are EU citizens. Why would the EU make it difficult for UK citizens to do the same?? Spain would force the EU's hand if it came to the bit. We saw during Covid how toothless the EU are in a crisis. They were nowhere to be seen and the countries were closing their own borders and formulating their policies to suit their own interests.  Something that is anathema to what the EU stands for. 

[Mikey1874]

As well, this Deal is a beginning. 

 

Strangely the UK will most likely move closer to Europe. 

[Lone Striker]

20 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

By the way, well done to all the businesses, which seem to be the majority that didn't prepare at all for No Deal.  That didn't waste £millions on contingencies. 

Well ....not quite. A lot of these preparations were for extra documentation and checks on goods being exported to or imported from the EU (incl NI) - these will still be happening (from my understanding of the agreement). 

[pablo]

2 minutes ago, Lone Striker said:

Well ....not quite. A lot of these preparations were for extra documentation and checks on goods being exported to or imported from the EU (incl NI) - these will still be happening (from my understanding of the agreement). 

 

Absolutely correct. The renegotiation of incoterms and either appointing a customs House broker or bringing the ability to handle customs formalities has been essential for companies who import and export between the EU and UK.

[Ulysses]

1 hour ago, Lone Striker said:

Lots of niche producers may have to bite the bullet and diversify if they can.

 

Sounds like the best deal ever. 

[Lone Striker]

21 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Covid, Indy, EU.

You do realise the likelihood that Covid won't be "beaten" ?  Several Virologists now say we'll have to find a way of living with it (like flu) - it's a matter of finding an acceptable death rate (like flu) 

 

As Boris said, if it's good for Britain to go its own way on things, why not Scotland. 

IMO, main reason for both  is nationalistic power grab by power-crazed leaders and wannabe leaders. 

 

Tell me, why is the EU shite but the UK isn't, is that because England is top dog in the UK but just a wee rat in the EU. 

EU isn't sh1te  (IMO).   It's a union, just like the UK is a union.   EU at least appears to give equal voice to it's members concerns and views - gives each member a veto (or opt-out)  on proposals for change.  ALthough smaller nations might argue that France & Germany make sure they get the key influence.    In that respect, it's a fairer union than the UK - but the UK has lots of stuff devolved to the other 3 nations so that they can diverge within broad limits.   Even if you want full indy, would you not agree that devolution has given Scottish politicians the chance to organise laws/taxes/health etc to be more relevant and meaningful to the diverse needs of our country ?    

 

[Lone Striker]

10 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

Sounds like the best deal ever. 

It may well be the best deal which the EU were willing to give (other than full membership) - remember the "no cherry picking" ?  😉

Businesses have to be prepared to adapt/react/diversify in normal times anyway when trading conditions change (Covid, wars, price fluctuations, new competitors, new laws, etc) - Brexit is just anther (rather unfortunately self-inflicted) one.  

[GinRummy]

1 minute ago, Lone Striker said:

It may well be the best deal which the EU were willing to give (other than full membership) - remember the "no cherry picking" ?  😉

Businesses have to be prepared to adapt/react/diversify in normal times anyway when trading conditions change (Covid, wars, price fluctuations, new competitors, new laws, etc) - Brexit is just anther (rather unfortunately self-inflicted) one.  

The last paragraph is great in theory but in reality many businesses don’t survive the trading conditoms you mention. The banks won’t lend them money and they go down the tubes leaving large sections of the working population on the dole. SME’s are a major part of the UK economy and unlike major corporations can not just shrug these things off.

[WorldChampions1902]

18 hours ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

And those of us who have had long held retirement hopes and ideas destroyed due to English/Welsh exceptionalism and dislike of forriners coming to are country will also criticise it...

A colleague owns a villa in Spain and has reduced his hours to 3 days a week so that he can spend more time in the sun. Before COVID, he made regular trips covering long weekends throughout the year and he voted Leave. Now he is moaning his t**ts off as he realises what Brexit means to him, the restrictions it imposes on his trips and the additional costs.
 

Lots more reality to hit home on Quitters in the months ahead. But they knew what they voted for.

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

37 minutes ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

A colleague owns a villa in Spain and has reduced his hours to 3 days a week so that he can spend more time in the sun. Before COVID, he made regular trips covering long weekends throughout the year and he voted Leave. Now he is moaning his t**ts off as he realises what Brexit means to him, the restrictions it imposes on his trips and the additional costs.
 

Lots more reality to hit home on Quitters in the months ahead. But they knew what they voted for.

Every dark cloud, eh?

[frankblack]

2 hours ago, GinRummy said:

The last paragraph is great in theory but in reality many businesses don’t survive the trading conditoms you mention. The banks won’t lend them money and they go down the tubes leaving large sections of the working population on the dole. SME’s are a major part of the UK economy and unlike major corporations can not just shrug these things off.

 

Sadly we need positive news on Covid to stop a significant percentage of SMEs folding in the first two quarters of 21.

 

Brexit is a distraction just now when incompetent management of Covid is shutting down the economy again.

[GinRummy]

1 hour ago, frankblack said:

 

Sadly we need positive news on Covid to stop a significant percentage of SMEs folding in the first two quarters of 21.

 

Brexit is a distraction just now when incompetent management of Covid is shutting down the economy again.

I fear you’ll be right. I know of companies who will close permanently as soon as furlough ends. Supporting employees but ignoring the other obvious overheads of a limited company yet giving self employed handouts based on previous ‘profits’  is just madness. That’s not to mention the impending commercial property crash. 

[redjambo]

20 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

I fear you’ll be right. I know of companies who will close permanently as soon as furlough ends. Supporting employees but ignoring the other obvious overheads of a limited company yet giving self employed handouts based on previous ‘profits’  is just madness. That’s not to mention the impending commercial property crash. 

 

Oh well, maybe 2022 will be a good year.

[Konrad von Carstein]

2 hours ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

A colleague owns a villa in Spain and has reduced his hours to 3 days a week so that he can spend more time in the sun. Before COVID, he made regular trips covering long weekends throughout the year and he voted Leave. Now he is moaning his t**ts off as he realises what Brexit means to him, the restrictions it imposes on his trips and the additional costs.
 

Lots more reality to hit home on Quitters in the months ahead. But they knew what they voted for.

I can only wish the worst of outcomes for your colleague, the selfish arse!

[Mikey1874]

 

[Mikey1874]

 

[Lone Striker]

2 hours ago, GinRummy said:

I fear you’ll be right. I know of companies who will close permanently as soon as furlough ends. Supporting employees but ignoring the other obvious overheads of a limited company yet giving self employed handouts based on previous ‘profits’  is just madness. That’s not to mention the impending commercial property crash. 

And thats another perfect storm waiting to happen.    Empty commercial property is bad news for owners, many of which are pension funds.  Mind you, they've  enjoyed very healthy increasing rental incomes during the good times - which in turn has put considerable financial pressure on the businesses who operate from them. It's one reason why High Streets & shopping centres  were starting to see empty units even before Covid.

 

 

6 hours ago, GinRummy said:

The last paragraph is great in theory but in reality many businesses don’t survive the trading conditoms you mention. The banks won’t lend them money and they go down the tubes leaving large sections of the working population on the dole. SME’s are a major part of the UK economy and unlike major corporations can not just shrug these things off.

Indeed - and we've already seen considerable damage done to retail & others as a result of demand being choked by Covid restrictions.  As you say,  many business owners will feel unable to change their products or markets when something radical like Brexit or Covid hits

 

[Shanks said no]

Not convinced that Brexit will prevent a lot of us moving abroad. For example a Greek Golden visa requires a purchase of a real estate property worth at least €250,000. This appears to give you five-year residency, as well as your immediate family members, as well as free travel in the Schengen Zone.

 

If I am wrong then years of hopes, dreams and planning have just gone up in smoke in my household. 

 

 

[Konrad von Carstein]

7 minutes ago, The Frenchman Returns said:

Not convinced that Brexit will prevent a lot of us moving abroad. For example a Greek Golden visa requires a purchase of a real estate property worth at least €250,000. This appears to give you five-year residency, as well as your immediate family members, as well as free travel in the Schengen Zone.

 

If I am wrong then years of hopes, dreams and planning have just gone up in smoke in my household. 

 

 

I guess, at the end of the day, money will talk...schemes and variations thereof as you have described may become common place across the EU.

 

It may be wishful thinking on my part though...

[Mikey1874]

3 hours ago, GinRummy said:

I fear you’ll be right. I know of companies who will close permanently as soon as furlough ends. Supporting employees but ignoring the other obvious overheads of a limited company yet giving self employed handouts based on previous ‘profits’  is just madness. That’s not to mention the impending commercial property crash. 

 

It's a mixed picture. Self employed are among the 3 million  who have had nothing. 

 

Your madness is lifeline income for a lot of people.