Meet the Management event

[Spellczech]

I support all Hearts managers. Shite question.

No you don't. You don't support Cathro. You didn't support Neilson...You didn't support Locke. I cannot recall prior to that. Did you support Sergio? JJ? 

 

Is it a "shite" question, because it is an awkward one for you to try to answer?

[sac]

Really interesting discussion on Radio 5 Live tonight with Steve McLaren. Not about Hearts (obviously) but about overseas coaches, and the need for our coaches to go abroad and learn. Well worth a listen, particularly when he talks about trying to implement different styles when he came back to the UK.

Listened to the programe too, they talked a lot about the 29 year old Hoffenheim coach who has never kicked a ball(sound familiar) but has them 3rd in the league.

 

Also had a laugh when McLaren said he was travelling down by train to sign his contract as the Villa coach until the Villa equivalent of JKB got wind & bombarded their forum in disgust. Chairman was informed & Mclaren got a call to say sorry but it's not happening.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

No you don't. You don't support Cathro. You didn't support Neilson...You didn't support Locke. I cannot recall prior to that. Did you support Sergio? JJ?

 

Is it a "shite" question, because it is an awkward one for you to try to answer?

I support managers but criticise them for underperformance. Trust this clarifies.

[Spellczech]

I support managers but criticise them for underperformance. Trust this clarifies.

You haven't answered the question yet. Stop wriggling and just answer -  Who was the last one you were happy with the performance of? 

[heatonjambo]

Oh boy is this thread a depressing read. 

 

I've come to the conclusion that there are some Hearts fans who do not deserve to follow a good team. Some of our support is just toxic... Over the years I've wondered why it always seemed to be Hearts fans who did embarrassing stuff like throwing bananas at Mark Walters, booing dead Popes, Physically attacking an opposition manager in our own stadium; paying for planes to fly over Tynecastle. All excruciating stuff that has happened during my time as an Hearts fan...

 

People agitated for Robbie to leave and got their wish. He got fed up and left at first opportunity that came his way, trying to tell himself that it was the right move at the right time...Well it was the right time as far as he was concerned. Not so good for us, but I don't blame him...

 

We then got a new young, ambitious Head Coach. Everyone got on board and the support was finally united - for all of 1 game.

 

Now all I see is people directing their ire towards the new coach. They cannot look past the responsibility lying with the Head Coach and want his head. Why? We can all see that the players are clearly not doing what the manager is saying he wants them to do - it couldn't be more obvious. Why? To go back to being what we've always been - underachievers with a reputation for fielding big teams of hoofballers. Let's get a big physical number 9! Let's get Tommy fecking Wright! Let's get 1970s and 80s tactics and style of manager because this new fangled style of football where you play the ball on the deck hasn't bedded immediately...

 

Are Hearts a big club? No we are not!

 

People have expectations of winning the majority of games yet our silverware haul is 3 cups in 50+ years. The 2 do not marry up. We are only a big club in Edinburgh ie not even in Scottish terms! People say that Cathro is rubbish because football is a results game. Well in that case Hearts are rubbish! Our silverware record for a big club in this small pond is embarrassing - Newcastle and Spurs fans should laugh at us...

 

Changing a style of football is not easy. I know nothing about being a professional footballer. For years I've sat watching players in warm up "controlling" a ball by knocking it 3 yards to their left of right. It's not what I regard as close control, nor instant control...I've come to the conclusion that the sort of control you see from Messi in a game is not the sort that lesser players can do, so they are perhaps coached to direct/deflect the ball rather than cushion it and kill it's momentum? Thinking about it Messi doesn't kill the momentum of the ball either, he is just not 3 yards behind the ball after his first touch! However, there is no reason why, with the correct personnel Hearts cannot develop a possession game. Tynecastle is a small pitch but I've watched the OF, particularly Celtic, knocking the ball left to right and back along our 18 yard line whilst we stood off them or chased shadows. That is how better players tire out fit, but not so good players. It is not exclusive to Barcelona. It is just professional football as far as I can see. 

 

Why have we only had 5 good strikers in the last 20 years? Macphee has identified it as per above. Precisely because there is a large element of our support who just want to watch professionals play kids football. They want blood and thunder - "Get the ball up the effing park!"  then "FFS get it in the box Hertz". Unsophisticated football minds who would not dream of attending a tactical Q&A session with the manager but will sit here on a thread debating the output as if their opinion counts for more than the Club's management's. They see what Levein and Cathro and Macphee cannot! Sorry,  but that's balls. Watching football doesn't make someone an expert on football. I've been doing it for 40 years but I would not dream of telling 30-year old Ian Cathro how to do his job! All I can do is try to interpret what he is trying to do.

 

I will nail my colours to the mast. Being an Hearts supporter is the weirdest thing - we had terrible teams in the 70s and won nothing, We had good teams in the 80s and won nothing. The reason the OF won stuff is that they control games. Yes, they can get a bit of help sometimes from officials, but OUR style of football ALWAYS gave the officials the opportunity to gift them late penalties etc. Our style of football DID NOT WORK for us.  We simply have to move on, evolve on the park. Off the park, the Hearts fans need to give the management a chance, give the players support even when they mess up. What I perceive Cathro to be trying to do is not easy, and he's made mistakes but calling him an "experiment" and saying he has failed is frankly stupid. Currently his methods are not working, but let's give the guy a chance to turn it round. I have no problem with us training coaches on the job, we've got nothing to lose. We are only glorious in our own dreams. If they get it right then we could get something special, If not, then we can all go back to employing Tommy Wrights and get enthused about him signing tryers like Neil Macfarlane, Jamie MacAllister, John Millar etc and having motivated teams who come unstuck 99% of the time when it matters...Let's not be in such a hurry to revert to the same old  "nearly men" ways...

Oh boy is this thread a depressing read. 

 

I've come to the conclusion that there are some Hearts fans who do not deserve to follow a good team. Some of our support is just toxic... Over the years I've wondered why it always seemed to be Hearts fans who did embarrassing stuff like throwing bananas at Mark Walters, booing dead Popes, Physically attacking an opposition manager in our own stadium; paying for planes to fly over Tynecastle. All excruciating stuff that has happened during my time as an Hearts fan...

 

People agitated for Robbie to leave and got their wish. He got fed up and left at first opportunity that came his way, trying to tell himself that it was the right move at the right time...Well it was the right time as far as he was concerned. Not so good for us, but I don't blame him...

 

We then got a new young, ambitious Head Coach. Everyone got on board and the support was finally united - for all of 1 game.

 

Now all I see is people directing their ire towards the new coach. They cannot look past the responsibility lying with the Head Coach and want his head. Why? We can all see that the players are clearly not doing what the manager is saying he wants them to do - it couldn't be more obvious. Why? To go back to being what we've always been - underachievers with a reputation for fielding big teams of hoofballers. Let's get a big physical number 9! Let's get Tommy fecking Wright! Let's get 1970s and 80s tactics and style of manager because this new fangled style of football where you play the ball on the deck hasn't bedded immediately...

 

Are Hearts a big club? No we are not!

 

People have expectations of winning the majority of games yet our silverware haul is 3 cups in 50+ years. The 2 do not marry up. We are only a big club in Edinburgh ie not even in Scottish terms! People say that Cathro is rubbish because football is a results game. Well in that case Hearts are rubbish! Our silverware record for a big club in this small pond is embarrassing - Newcastle and Spurs fans should laugh at us...

 

Changing a style of football is not easy. I know nothing about being a professional footballer. For years I've sat watching players in warm up "controlling" a ball by knocking it 3 yards to their left of right. It's not what I regard as close control, nor instant control...I've come to the conclusion that the sort of control you see from Messi in a game is not the sort that lesser players can do, so they are perhaps coached to direct/deflect the ball rather than cushion it and kill it's momentum? Thinking about it Messi doesn't kill the momentum of the ball either, he is just not 3 yards behind the ball after his first touch! However, there is no reason why, with the correct personnel Hearts cannot develop a possession game. Tynecastle is a small pitch but I've watched the OF, particularly Celtic, knocking the ball left to right and back along our 18 yard line whilst we stood off them or chased shadows. That is how better players tire out fit, but not so good players. It is not exclusive to Barcelona. It is just professional football as far as I can see. 

 

Why have we only had 5 good strikers in the last 20 years? Macphee has identified it as per above. Precisely because there is a large element of our support who just want to watch professionals play kids football. They want blood and thunder - "Get the ball up the effing park!"  then "FFS get it in the box Hertz". Unsophisticated football minds who would not dream of attending a tactical Q&A session with the manager but will sit here on a thread debating the output as if their opinion counts for more than the Club's management's. They see what Levein and Cathro and Macphee cannot! Sorry,  but that's balls. Watching football doesn't make someone an expert on football. I've been doing it for 40 years but I would not dream of telling 30-year old Ian Cathro how to do his job! All I can do is try to interpret what he is trying to do.

 

I will nail my colours to the mast. Being an Hearts supporter is the weirdest thing - we had terrible teams in the 70s and won nothing, We had good teams in the 80s and won nothing. The reason the OF won stuff is that they control games. Yes, they can get a bit of help sometimes from officials, but OUR style of football ALWAYS gave the officials the opportunity to gift them late penalties etc. Our style of football DID NOT WORK for us.  We simply have to move on, evolve on the park. Off the park, the Hearts fans need to give the management a chance, give the players support even when they mess up. What I perceive Cathro to be trying to do is not easy, and he's made mistakes but calling him an "experiment" and saying he has failed is frankly stupid. Currently his methods are not working, but let's give the guy a chance to turn it round. I have no problem with us training coaches on the job, we've got nothing to lose. We are only glorious in our own dreams. If they get it right then we could get something special, If not, then we can all go back to employing Tommy Wrights and get enthused about him signing tryers like Neil Macfarlane, Jamie MacAllister, John Millar etc and having motivated teams who come unstuck 99% of the time when it matters...Let's not be in such a hurry to revert to the same old  "nearly men" ways...

A late response i know. But a supburb post

[Spellczech]

You haven't answered the question yet. Stop wriggling and just answer -  Who was the last one you were happy with the performance of? 

Come on Geoff - we've had no shortages of managers. Remember the year of the 4 emperors   managers 2006? Was it Burley? Alex MacDonald? Tommy Walker? Give us a name - so we can see when our last good manager was?

[davemclaren]

We?

 

The attack on Lennon was one individual. The plane was organised by a handful of individuals.

 

And although we have underperformed historically we have almost always been better than St. Johnstone and Partick Thistle. We don't have a right to be better but we have a reasonable expectation to be so. If we don't then I repeat - lack of ambition (and acceptance of mediocrity and worse that goes with that lack) is what I find depressing. 

 

Along with the hair shirt claim that we as a support are uniquely embarrassing.

But some seasons we weren't better than Partick or St Johnstone. On average we have been better than them and every other team in the league, apart from Rangers and Celtic ( probably ), reflecting our status in the game. One season below them is indeed a poor league season and that needs to improve.

 

I don't agree we we are uniquely embarrassing. Every team has a proportion of neds so teams with bigger supports tend to have more.

[deejtee]

I don't "support" managers. I support the club and if the manager does his job I will back him. Same with a player. I reserve the right to think some players are not good enough for the club. Surely that applies to most fans? We are allowed as Hearts fans to express negative thoughts about players or coaches where we feel they could be replaced by better? All of us will never agree all the time, or even most of the time it seems.

[the big show]

I agree. I believe Hearts are trying to do the right things. It is indisputable that we are not doing everything successfully at the moment though. However, only fools throw the baby out with the bathwater...

 

Undoubtedly we have some problems at the moment, but I cannot accept that ALL of the following are problems:

 

- The Club's strategy

- The Director of Football's capabilities

- The Head Coach's capabilities

- The Assistant Head Coach's capabilities

- The recruitment policy

- The recruitment practice

- The tactics of the Head Coach

- The motivation of the outfield players

- The application of the outfield players

- The goalkeeping coach's capabilities

- The goalkeeper's ability

 

 

And I just don't believe that employing Tommy Wright would fix any of the above that are problems...If that is all people have got to offer then I say "Go away and come back to me when you have a better plan?"

There has been quite a few other managers mentioned though one being ALEX NEIL .. for what it is costing for Cathro , McPhee , and the DOF etc etc ... i for one believe we could get in a quality manager and his side kicks for much of the same money or maybe even cheaper .... This strategy we have got makes sure it keeps our DOF in a job even though he can make mistakes time and again and regardless of how his rookies are performing and he answers to nothing and it's the rookies that take ball the flak ... it;s like he is sitting there with a get out jail free card . Now regards to list which ones would you say are not problems ? ..

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

Wee bit disappointed that a post claiming Hearts aren't even a big club in Scotland has got more praise than pretty much any post I've ever seen on here. I think we are a big club in Scotland. We should be thinking and acting like billy big baws to every club outside Celtic and probably still Rangers unfortunately.

[Morgan]

I take it you haven't been reading Kickback much today?

[Morgan]

I take it you haven't been reading Kickback much today?

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Come on Geoff - we've had no shortages of managers. Remember the year of the 4 emperors managers 2006? Was it Burley? Alex MacDonald? Tommy Walker? Give us a name - so we can see when our last good manager was?

I'm driving.

[Morgan]

I take it you haven't been reading Kickback much today?

I know you 'two' have.

[Bungalow Bill]

Cathro and Macphee want us to be Europa League group stages club, I was encouraged by this. Would a 'Tommy Wright' have his sort of ambition for our club?

[Zibi]

Another silly cartoon. This time one of a guy with a bandage on who looks like he has just been smacked in the puss.

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

Cathro and Macphee want us to be Europa League group stages club, I was encouraged by this. Would a 'Tommy Wright' have his sort of ambition for our club?

Good to hear. We should be thinking like that.

[deejtee]

Wee bit disappointed that a post claiming Hearts aren't even a big club in Scotland has got more praise than pretty much any post I've ever seen on here. I think we are a big club in Scotland. We should be thinking and acting like billy big baws to every club outside Celtic and probably still Rangers unfortunately.

Indeed a strange view. I remember being told by a previous owner of Hibs that there were two or three times the number of people with allegiance to Hearts for every one with leanings to his club. The  bigger club in the capital has to be a big club in the relative context of Scottish football. We are however sadly dwarfed by the dread old firm.

[deejtee]

Cathro and Macphee want us to be Europa League group stages club, I was encouraged by this. Would a 'Tommy Wright' have his sort of ambition for our club?

A bit of a gap before we can get there but why would a "Tommy Wright" not have that ambition when he can get St johnstone into the qualifying stages??

[Martin_T]

Wee bit disappointed that a post claiming Hearts aren't even a big club in Scotland has got more praise than pretty much any post I've ever seen on here. I think we are a big club in Scotland. We should be thinking and acting like billy big baws to every club outside Celtic and probably still Rangers unfortunately.

Good to see I'm not alone in thinking this. Hearts are a big club in Scottish terms, jeezo even Hugh Keevins on Radio Clyde the other week described as one of the 5 institutions in Scottish football. Yes we are much smaller than the Old Firm, but then like or not those two clubs have fanbases that are probably in the top 50 clubs in world football.

 

I think it's also perfectly acceptable to expect to win the majority of games, our fanbase and the resources it generates means we dwarf most of our competitors. I'd much rather be an expectant winner than a hopeful loser. I also don't see the parallel being drawn between winning most games and winning trophies. A doesn't necessarily lead to B.

 

There's some decent stuff in SpellCzech's post, but in no way does it deserve the plaudits it's been getting.

[Zibi]

Indeed a strange view. I remember being told by a previous owner of Hibs that there were two or three times the number of people with allegiance to Hearts for every one with leanings to his club. The bigger club in the capital has to be a big club in the relative context of Scottish football. We are however sadly dwarfed by the dread old firm.

The only thing that will ever change that is a lot of cash. It would probably still only get us 2nd though as Celtic would just start bidding 2-3 million each for our good players.

[Spellczech]

I don't "support" managers. I support the club and if the manager does his job I will back him. Same with a player. I reserve the right to think some players are not good enough for the club. Surely that applies to most fans? We are allowed as Hearts fans to express negative thoughts about players or coaches where we feel they could be replaced by better? All of us will never agree all the time, or even most of the time it seems.

Ok fine. Now you've split the hairs, why not tell us who the last Hearts manager you were happy with the performance of was? I won't bite. I'm not going to sit there saying he was "shite because...". I may judge you on your answer but I promise not to say anything on here about it.

 

In my opinion it is easy to complain, easy to find fault when all you have to do is identify problems, not solutions. It's easy to sit in front of computer screen saying "This is shite, he is shite". The harder bit on JKB is what JamboInGlasgow does - interpreting or even formulating strategy- he is absolutely right that he spoke of DOF model and the Academy being the only strategy that could have any hope of taking on the might of the Gruesomes before Levein arrived back at the club. Christ, Vlad also spoke of involving kids from under-privileged backgrounds in football etc The difficult bit in practice is what the club employees have to do - making it work, putting plans into action. Plan implementation often does not go smoothly in any field. I've been involved in many system changes and implementations in business and very,very rarely do they go perfectly and sometimes they are utter disasters - the ones that don't work seldom just get someone else brought in to start all over again. Usually you just end up with a compromise. Starting afresh is not practical in the real world, so why should it be the way that things get done in football? Cathro is having some problems implementing his system. That is all. To use his own words, he has to learn, adapt, etc etc. He was given a 3 year contract 6 months ago. Everyone with more than 2 brain cells knew it might take time...  

[amadjambo]

Listened to the programe too, they talked a lot about the 29 year old Hoffenheim coach who has never kicked a ball(sound familiar) but has them 3rd in the league.

 

Also had a laugh when McLaren said he was travelling down by train to sign his contract as the Villa coach until the Villa equivalent of JKB got wind & bombarded their forum in disgust. Chairman was informed & Mclaren got a call to say sorry but it's not happening.

It was a really interesting discussion. I'd thoroughly recommend everyone downloads it to listen to later. I'm no fan of Cathro, as I think despite possibly being a forward thinking and innovative coach, he doesn't strike me as being a leader. But it is possible that he has faced resistance to his ideas from the current squad, thus causing this mess we are in.

 

Maybe a summer of astute recruitment can resolve this. I'd feel a lot more confident if he wasn't the main man but the no2, but I'm prepare to hopefully be proven wrong.

[Mars plastic]

Another silly cartoon. This time one of a guy with a bandage on who looks like he has just been smacked in the puss.

:lol:

 

I think Morgan was ignored as a child and the only way he can convey his feelings is by way of cartoons.

[Morgan]

Another silly cartoon. This time one of a guy with a bandage on who looks like he has just been smacked in the puss.

Someone else used the word 'cartoon' today.

 

Guess who?

[JamboAl]

You don't believe in Tommy Wright which is fair enough. Likewise, all people can offer us to defend Cathro is faith. You can choose what to believe. As I said to Mr Theories, I'll continue to look at evidence.

Are these theories the ones you have steadfastly avoided considering?  I'm not claiming they are right (without a "W") but they are a possibility.

You think Tommy Wright will be a more successful Hearts manager but you have no evidence only a theory/hunch.  If he's that good why did Newcastle not consider him before Benitez - after all he is an ex Newcastle player.

[Nookie Bear]

Cathro and Macphee want us to be Europa League group stages club, I was encouraged by this. Would a 'Tommy Wright' have his sort of ambition for our club?

While Cathro and Macphee talk, Wright does.

[Morgan]

:lol:

I think Morgan was ignored as a child and the only way he can convey his feelings is by way of cartoons.

Why did you use two cartoons then?

[Spellczech]

There has been quite a few other managers mentioned though one being ALEX NEIL .. for what it is costing for Cathro , McPhee , and the DOF etc etc ... i for one believe we could get in a quality manager and his side kicks for much of the same money or maybe even cheaper .... This strategy we have got makes sure it keeps our DOF in a job even though he can make mistakes time and again and regardless of how his rookies are performing and he answers to nothing and it's the rookies that take ball the flak ... it;s like he is sitting there with a get out jail free card . Now regards to list which ones would you say are not problems ? ..

Alex Neil? Was that serious? I only ask because he has stated that he wants to continue working in England. Would you tear up our whole corporate strategy, sack Levein, Cathro and McPhee on the chance that Alex Neil might fancy coming north where he'll get 6 months to put a whole new strategy into operation (by himself) or else he'll also get the "Oot" treatment? 

 

You were joking right?

[amadjambo]

Indeed a strange view. I remember being told by a previous owner of Hibs that there were two or three times the number of people with allegiance to Hearts for every one with leanings to his club. The bigger club in the capital has to be a big club in the relative context of Scottish football. We are however sadly dwarfed by the dread old firm.

I commented on this today to a colleague. I was trying to explain to him (a Leeds Utd fan) that his team are in a 1 club city, we are effectively in a 4 club city when you account for all the OF fans.

[Spellczech]

While Cathro and Macphee talk, Wright does.

Would you accept him flashing his knickers at the directors at Ibrox in the same way as he did in January?

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

Actually pretty encouraged by stuff they said and thanks to those who shared. What I'm clinging to is that they simply got January horribly wrong and they'll learn from it quickly. They're smart guys, they got cocky, were probably so sure of their methods they thought you could almost play anyone, signed some total dross but will now devote far more time and concentration into the players we sign. That's my hope anyway.

[John Findlay]

So you think judging someone over 3.5 years is the same as judging them over 6 months?

 

 

Never too old to learn to be taught a lesson.

I am not judging over 6 months. You are.

It would only be fair of you to give Cathro 3.5 years. No that wouldn't suit your argument.

[Zibi]

Someone else used the word 'cartoon' today.

 

Guess who?

Who?

[amadjambo]

Actually pretty encouraged by stuff they said and thanks to those who shared. What I'm clinging to is that they simply got January horribly wrong and they'll learn from it quickly. They're smart guys, they got cocky, were probably so sure of their methods they thought you could almost play anyone, signed some total dross but will now devote far more time and concentration into the players we sign. That's my hope anyway.

Yep. Let's hope that January has taught everyone a valuable lesson. There's no doubt they've been let down by the players, many of whom simply aren't playing to their ability for whatever reason.

[Nookie Bear]

Would you accept him flashing his knickers at the directors at Ibrox in the same way as he did in January?

Would irritate me but means he is doing well and our DoF model ensures a smooth transition between Wright and the next man.

 

Anyway, Wright is being used as an example. The point is that people seem impressed by Cathros words, but other managers are proving it on the pitch.

[amadjambo]

I am not judging over 6 months. You are.

It would only be fair of you to give Cathro 3.5 years. No that wouldn't suit your argument.

Seriously, are you happy to give him 3.5 yrs if we don't show any dramatic improvement next season?

 

He desperately needs to get off to a good start next season. At the very least demonstrating that significant progress has been made. If our current form continues he'll be gone by Xmas, and rightly so.

[siegementality]

Yep. Let's hope that January has taught everyone a valuable lesson. There's no doubt they've been let down by the players, many of whom simply aren't playing to their ability for whatever reason.

Austin McPhee talked about players having the right mentality. They will be looking to sign low maintenance (in terms of their character), high output players. They know exactly what type of player needs to be signed. Those type of players simply weren't available in January hence we ended up with what we got. I am confident Cathro and McPhee will get it right.

[Bungalow Bill]

Would you accept him flashing his knickers at the directors at Ibrox in the same way as he did in January?

Agreed. For this reason I don't want him anywhere near our club.

[Mars plastic]

Why did you use two cartoons then?

Probably used them in 1% of my total posts.

[Morgan]

Probably used them in 1% of my total posts.

Wait 'til I do the math.

[portobellojambo1]

Criticism of poor performance, which Cathro admits to, isn't an insult.

 

 

That is undoubtedly true Geoff. I have to be honest and say I do find it difficult when you have a coach, who himself, at outset said HMFC shouldn't be just willing to accept poor results, but there are a number of HMFC fans who seem willing to accept them, because that is the way it has always been with HMFC. I, personally have never believed we have a god given right to win every game, but I do think there is nothing wrong with having an expectation we will win a large percentage of them. I also have no objection whatsoever to people asking questions and trying to gain an understanding of what is happening in the background. I didn't attend the management meeting at Tynecastle, but I was in at a meeting with Ann and Craig on Saturday morning, and a lot of questions were asked and answered. There was an admission that the last two transfer windows have not gone well, and an additional source are being employed to help make sure that players coming in from overseas clubs will be much better vetted to make sure the style of play here suits them and they will suit playing in Scotland. Although not brought up we were aware that the injury to Callum Paterson did play a huge part in what effectively became a sense of panic buying in January of this year. It does appear Callum was due to move to West Ham in the New Year transfer window, for a 7 figure sum, and the club were making plans around that, for new players coming in.

 

When Callum then injured himself in the match against Kilmarnock on 27 December it threw everything that was being planned out of the window. I have a feeling, although we didn't ask, but I suspect that decisions on the likes of Rossi and Ozturk leaving, for example, had been based on suitable players coming in. Again, rethinking was needed. Were they right players, I tend to think probably not, but they were players that were available, and we needed to add to the squad. It doesn't help when you are aware the players are very enthusiastic about what Cathro and McPhee have brought to the club, bit it just wasn't gelling on the park. Everyone is still very enthusiastic that they do have what it takes to build the sort of team that can be challenging at the top end of the league, even if that is something that even some Hearts fans don't really care about, there are some fans who don't seem to care if we are not in a challenging position. It was said we are away behind Celtic, and there is absolutely no denying that, but there is no reason why we shouldn't be winning against the other sides in the league, once the ideas in hand translate to the style of play wanted on the field.

 

I am one who has voiced concern about how we have been playing, not just recently but certainly across parts of the last two seasons, but I am willing to wait and see how we start next season. The club are aware we will be starting our league fixtures away from home, and that the purchase of players for the start of the season coming has to be right. They also have confidence in Cathro, and I am willing to give him the opportunity to look to build something over the close season break. I spoke to a few people at work who were at last night's meeting and they too were please with what they were hearing last night. I think we were, in the main pissed off to a certain extent, this season. Craig Levein himself said that (in a game we actually lost due to two daft mistakes, which no coach could pre-plan for) the best football we have played since coming out of administration was in the game up at Dens Park just before Christmas, and that it was frustrating that we could play as well as that but also look so awful at times.

 

I will be renewing my ST, I will be following on every week home and away again next season, I do have high hopes for my team (I actually thought that would be the norm for any HMFC fan, but sometimes when I read this site I'm just not so sure) but at this point in time we can only hope that what the coaching staff want to do with the team does transpire and we can begin to enjoy what we watch again, and punish those teams we are capable of punishing, and cement a position much closer to Celtic in the coming season.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Come on Geoff - we've had no shortages of managers. Remember the year of the 4 emperors managers 2006? Was it Burley? Alex MacDonald? Tommy Walker? Give us a name - so we can see when our last good manager was?

In answer to your question, managers have a shelf life. The last season where a manager met and surpassed all expectations was Robbie in the second tier.

 

I would say the last manager who left before his time was up was Sergio if your question is directed in that fashion.

[deejtee]

Ok fine. Now you've split the hairs, why not tell us who the last Hearts manager you were happy with the performance of was? I won't bite. I'm not going to sit there saying he was "shite because...". I may judge you on your answer but I promise not to say anything on here about it.

 

In my opinion it is easy to complain, easy to find fault when all you have to do is identify problems, not solutions. It's easy to sit in front of computer screen saying "This is shite, he is shite". The harder bit on JKB is what JamboInGlasgow does - interpreting or even formulating strategy- he is absolutely right that he spoke of DOF model and the Academy being the only strategy that could have any hope of taking on the might of the Gruesomes before Levein arrived back at the club. Christ, Vlad also spoke of involving kids from under-privileged backgrounds in football etc The difficult bit in practice is what the club employees have to do - making it work, putting plans into action. Plan implementation often does not go smoothly in any field. I've been involved in many system changes and implementations in business and very,very rarely do they go perfectly and sometimes they are utter disasters - the ones that don't work seldom just get someone else brought in to start all over again. Usually you just end up with a compromise. Starting afresh is not practical in the real world, so why should it be the way that things get done in football? Cathro is having some problems implementing his system. That is all. To use his own words, he has to learn, adapt, etc etc. He was given a 3 year contract 6 months ago. Everyone with more than 2 brain cells knew it might take time...  

I was happy with Neilson.

As regards the more than 2 brain cells bit I am happy that I have more than enough thanks and I don't actually think that time will make Cathro a success but it isn't impossible. As regards starting afresh it sometimes needs to happen when the conclusion is reached that the model is broken. Ours is closer to broken than on course. We all have experiences in our careers and few of them parallel a football club. It would not be a huge thing to change to go back to an experienced manager with rookie coach rather than our model. In that model you could actually still promote from within if you wanted. You amongst others talk about Cathro's system as if he actually has something new and innovative to offer. Where is the evidence for this? Box soccer? Lesser coaching roles in bigger clubs? His appointment was and remains a risky one. I hope in six months he has succeeded but if not there may be great difficulty in defending him.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

I am not judging over 6 months. You are.

It would only be fair of you to give Cathro 3.5 years. No that wouldn't suit your argument.

 

Bent out of shape or what when your Fergie argument was blown out of the water!

 

Go and look up Fergie's first 25 games at United and get back to us.

[Mr Sifter]

Wee bit disappointed that a post claiming Hearts aren't even a big club in Scotland has got more praise than pretty much any post I've ever seen on here. I think we are a big club in Scotland. We should be thinking and acting like billy big baws to every club outside Celtic and probably still Rangers unfortunately.

I actually disagreed with a couple of parts of spellczechs post (the big club being one) but in general I thought the sentiment was almost spot on.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Are these theories the ones you have steadfastly avoided considering? I'm not claiming they are right (without a "W") but they are a possibility.

You think Tommy Wright will be a more successful Hearts manager but you have no evidence only a theory/hunch. If he's that good why did Newcastle not consider him before Benitez - after all he is an ex Newcastle player.

I'm basing my projection of Wright on his overachievement at one of the smallest clubs in the top tier. Based on that evidence, I project that he would do a better job at Hearts than Ian Cathro. Undoubtedly, that could be wrong but at least I have evidence to support it unlike your suppositions based on hope.

[Elias Henry Furst]

Wait 'til I do the math.

You had to come on and apologise earlier for last night.

 

Yet here you are again doing similar.

 

It makes the thread hard to read and that's a pity because there has been some great posts and discussion on it.

[Nookie Bear]

Agreed. For this reason I don't want him anywhere near our club.

No stress...gives us a good couple of years and our model allows a seamless transition to the next man.

 

And you dont think Cathro will be flashing his knickers if he ever manages to string a couple of wins together?

[Spellczech]

Indeed a strange view. I remember being told by a previous owner of Hibs that there were two or three times the number of people with allegiance to Hearts for every one with leanings to his club. The  bigger club in the capital has to be a big club in the relative context of Scottish football. We are however sadly dwarfed by the dread old firm.

Unless these people are putting money into the club then their supposed allegiance is utterly irrelevant - at least for the moment. You may as well call us a "sleeping giant" if that cliche suits? At least glory hunters turn up and help pay the overheads!

 

Currenlty, regarding Hearts as a big club can only be done if you are totally parochial in the way you make the judgement. We are big in Edinburgh terms, of that there is no doubt. We are not big in Scottish terms for precisely the reasons you say yourself. We are tiny in UK terms and we are miniscule in World terms. 

 

I never "get" why people get so excited by Hearts being the "Best of the Rest" - woo-hoo 3rd place again! It's a nonsense - being "bigger than Hibs and Aberdeen" doesn't really excite me. Especially when the self-same people then tell me they have "winner's mentality" and we should be destroying all the "wee teams". It's all bollocks, utterly contradictory bollocks. I don't accept it and I don't settle for it. i think Hearts CAN beat the Old Firm, but the only way we can do this is to build organically. We have no billionaire supporters.

 

People are very despondent about Scottish football at the moment, but if Hearts actually succeed in implementing our current strategy then this is the right time! 

 

In a few years time Celtic will get 10 in a row and they will cease to be so parochial and self-seeking. By all likelihood Rangers could still be a basket case. Celtic will want some competition, in fact they will NEED competition, as CL is not enough to keep their STs at 60k...If we can bring through youth and sell them to England in 3-4 years time, and reinvest in more youth and QUALITY senior foreign/UK players whose footballing ambition is not to end up at Rangers or Celtic, then it could become cyclical. We HAVE to get and retain a reputation for excellence at youth level & importantly giving youth a chance to progress. This is the thing that Celtic by and large still cannot afford the risk of doing and Rangers just seem to have no interest in doing... Then you get all the peripheral stuff like community work and kids wanting to be Hearts fans not Celtic, Man City or Chelsea fans. It is the stuff Vlad wanted to do but didn't... The one thing we don't bloody need though is all the negative, whinging short-termist moaners.

 

Honestly, moaning is the easiest thing in the World to do. Hearts fans do far too much of it. (It annoys me that I feel like I'm moaning about others moaning!)