Jammy T Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 Who kept his nerve in the last minute to keep us in the cup. Still a shite player and doesn't disprove the argument - Wittenveen scored against Rangers for example... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Beni of Gorgie Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 Some interesting stuff, they were more open than I expected. I think they made a foolish but brave move to rip the Neilson team apart, expecting the international players to be of a higher level. I think Neilson realised himself his team was end of line. Cathro has possibly made himself look a proper tit with impatience. I think I will know by August 31 how it's going to play out. The most important and interesting window awaits. Something of Burley proportion would be great. Wishful thinking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seymour M Hersh Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 Well it sold out so it raised maximum funds! Keep trying No please don't! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavydavy Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 If you want you can re-read the original post you responded to. The academy had a significant gap in youth players due to under investment by the previous regime. So in answer to your question, the reason the under 20's are not good enough is down to the previous owners. I'll also point out that Currie didn't come through the academy and was signed to fill one of the many gaps in the under 20's squad. I know Currie didn't come through our Academy but neither did Callum Paterson so what's the point? I am saying why have a couple of young lads in the squad and not give them a run out. I am well aware that Romanov underinvested in our youth set up and what Levein is doing particularly with the younger age groups. I know that next season we are going to have a very young under 20's squad which will be a good grounding hopefully for the future. Still doesn't expalin why these couple of youngs guys can't get a run out particularly Currie after scoring his hat trick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavydavy Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 Ffs, because we knew that about Sammon before he came to Tynecastle? Have a think about it. I have had a think about it have you? I don't have a problem with Goncalves I just think he needs the right support which hopefully we will get for next season. I may be wrong but I don't think that support will come from Sammon and I was questioning why we ever gave him a three year deal irrespective of who signed him or who else was at the club at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juho_Makela_Goal_Machine Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 On the difficulty of signing players in January, does anyone think our form since then would have been significantly worse if we hadn't signed anyone? This is where I'm at. We needed 4, left back, centre back, right back and a wide player. Bikey is a young player who showed potential at a lower level and was a completely risk-free signing as we signed him on an amateur deal, so he can get a pass on that. Goncalves has shown he is a good signing, the type of signing I hope we make this summer. Tziolis, Avlonitis and Martin on a 3-year deal are utterly bemusing signings that have been shown to be surplus to requirements already. So if we had not signed any players, it might have been worse but may have seen young players tried, and some might have shown they can play a role in future seasons. Regardless, the transfer window was a catastrophic failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 Yes but were they brought in during a January transfer window with the the manager in the door only a month. Knowing a bit of your background i am sure you have worked in situations where a manager leaves, a new manager comes in and the status quo flies out of the door. The things they perceive as not working, they change asap. Our management duo, or trio if you wish, can't do that because of transfer window regulations. What they appear to have done is to clear the decks of players whose contracts were nearing an end and who they thought were not suitable beyond then, and hoped to bridge the gap to next season with (mainly) temporary, I stress temporary, signings from what little was available in the January window, to see us through to the end of the season. With hindsight, despite impressive pedigrees, most (one in particular) haven't worked out. It was a risk strategy that failed but at least we got fees for some such as Muirhead, Rossi and maybe Ozturk (not sure) that we would not have got this month. We now proceed to this coming window and this will be a fairer and more realistic yardstick to pass judgment. We await with baited breath. Look, we all know Cathro is here for the near future at least. I've no confidence in him and I'm not the only one. I hope I'm wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oi oi Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 Seems many cant / wont take a reality check , if you think Cathro is the best we can do then you really have a low opinion of our club. The facts of the matter are in relative terms Cathro has been backed considerably in the January window, he had a winter break to get his metods across , he has a support network the envy of many clubs , and crucially we have players most teams below Celtic would love to have in their team But yet not one player looks better for his arrival , we have no clear team shape and relegation form since he has arrived . In 26 games he has failed ! we have failed as a club since his appointment week in week out ! his first excuse was the pitch, 200k later its the players are not of the right style meanwhile even Dundee have got more points than us since his arrival, So onto next season it will be more excuses first up no doubt will be the run of away games at the beginning of the season , Next year Hibs are back , Celtic, Rangers will improve ,St Johnstone and Aberdeen will be consistent however with a lack of leadership we will be left behind with bottom 6 form So please what exactly is the case for his defence ? What is one thing we can point to suggest he is a winner ? a leader ? a manager who gets the most out of players ? It seems many of the fans will accept defeats and passionless performance in the belief this really a reflection of his ability perhaps because he didn't get a pre season when in truth this is as good as it gets for him as next season all teams start on 0 points . this imposter is dragging us down with every week and decision he makes, time to make strong decisions and move on ! best post I have read here by miles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 Having just re-read some of my posts last night I would like to publically apologise to Jambo in Hamilton. I was way out of line and over the top and am genuinely appalled at some of the posts I made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mars plastic Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 Having just re-read some of my posts last night I would like to publically apologise to Jambo in Hamilton. I was way out of line and over the top and am genuinely appalled at some of the posts I made. Not a more insincere apology will you ever read. You've only apologised because umpteen folk pulled you for being a tube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomaso Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 How has Hughes improved the team he was a nightmare against Aberdeen and is finished. To give him and most of the 9 he signed in January new deals is nothing short of a disgrace. Got to agree with you Davy - Hughes is just not the dominant player we expected to see, and has been disappointing. Giving an injury prone 37 year old another. O Tracy is bordering on the farcical Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debut 4 Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 People thinking we just need to get the recruitment right in the summer is a bit naive. If only it was that easy. We need strong management. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydug Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 Do you not think we are putting are hand in our pockets enough already? Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk Are you familiar with the concept of 'fan ownership' ? Who is going to fund the cost if not the fans ? If you can't or won't help out that is your choice. The fundraisers are entirely voluntary no one is being forced to do anything. If you prefer we could always leave the stand unfinished. People like you remind me of those Hibs fans who demanded Farmer must put in more cash despite him saving them from extinction due to his goodwill to the community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Findlay Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 I judge Cathro on his results alone, which are pathetic. Giving him another season is a risk we can't afford. So you would have sacked Sir Alex after one season at Man U. Afterall that is your MO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 Not a more insincere apology will you ever read. You've only apologised because umpteen folk pulled you for being a tube. You're wrong mars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mars plastic Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 People thinking we just need to get the recruitment right in the summer is a bit naive. If only it was that easy. We need strong management. Correct. You can have the best players in the world but they still need to be managed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ1984 Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 So you would have sacked Sir Alex after one season at Man U. Afterall that is your MO. Sir Alex had a successful track record and didn't look utterly clueless as a football manager so it's not really the same is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboAl Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 Look, we all know Cathro is here for the near future at least. I've no confidence in him and I'm not the only one. I hope I'm wrong. I know you have no confidence in Cathro, nor Levein either for that matter, but whether you're right or wrong is irrelevant in this context. I put forward theories to you. If these are correct would that affect your confidence, or at least delay your unfavourable view until after the upcoming transfer window? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambovambo Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 He used the fact that Isma has a better goals to games ratio than Robbo had. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk If I recall correctly, so does Husref Musemic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mars plastic Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 You're wrong mars. No, I'm not. The boy from Hamilton was clearly at the event and you continued to besmirch the guy long after it wasn't even funny. However, everyone can see it for what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 So you would have sacked Sir Alex after one season at Man U. Afterall that is your MO.Actually, smart arse, he finished 2nd in his first full season. He also turned round a team in the relegation zone when he joined to finish mid-table. Your comparison is shite but that's to be expected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 I know you have no confidence in Cathro, nor Levein either for that matter, but whether you're right or wrong is irrelevant in this context. I put forward theories to you. If these are correct would that affect your confidence, or at least delay your unfavourable view until after the upcoming transfer window? You can theorise all you like. I prefer using evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mars plastic Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 Actually, smart arse, he finished 2nd in his first full season. He also turned round a team in the relegation zone when he joined to finish mid-table. Your comparison is shite but that's to be expected. That'll be the first set to the 'Patrick fellie. Train despatcher to serve.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 No, I'm not. The boy from Hamilton was clearly at the event and you continued to besmirch the guy long after it wasn't even funny. However, everyone can see it for what it is. You're right - I did continue for far too long. Hence the apology. Have you never got carried away with your posting style and later regretted it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy T Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 Got to agree with you Davy - Hughes is just not the dominant player we expected to see, and has been disappointing. Giving an injury prone 37 year old another. O Tracy is bordering on the farcical What's the stats re his injuries? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 I have had a think about it have you? I don't have a problem with Goncalves I just think he needs the right support which hopefully we will get for next season. I may be wrong but I don't think that support will come from Sammon and I was questioning why we ever gave him a three year deal irrespective of who signed him or who else was at the club at the time. Naw, you said, I summarise ofc, why offer a player a 3 year deal that can't handle the home fans at Tynecastle, with no thought to the fact in order for him to play for us at Tynecastle he would have to have signed the deal first. I agree reference Isma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavydavy Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 What's the stats re his injuries? Have a look at the number of games he has played shown on here although it doesn't say when he has been injured. http://www.soccerbase.com/players/player.sd?player_id=10516 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stirlingshirejambo Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 Got to agree with you Davy - Hughes is just not the dominant player we expected to see, and has been disappointing. Giving an injury prone 37 year old another. O Tracy is bordering on the farcical yet was absolutely outstanding against Rangers before his injury i won't judge him on one comeback game against the second strongest foerard line in our league Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 Having just re-read some of my posts last night I would like to publically apologise to Jambo in Hamilton. I was way out of line and over the top and am genuinely appalled at some of the posts I made. Take a bow. You were being a dick, you have appoligised. No doubt some will still have a go. Very few folk appoligise after getting personal. The Hamilton Jambo fellow doesn't help himself tho! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyJenkins Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 yet was absolutely outstanding against Rangers before his injury i won't judge him on one comeback game against the second strongest foerard line in our league Absolutely this. He was rusty which would be expected. Those saying he hasnt been good when playing are full of it, frankly. Probably rather have a McPake type, always on his arse making sliding challenges cos he's fcked up so badly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavydavy Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 Naw, you said, I summarise ofc, why offer a player a 3 year deal that can't handle the home fans at Tynecastle, with no thought to the fact in order for him to play for us at Tynecastle he would have to have signed the deal first. I agree reference Isma. Sorry Rudi, I just don't get what you are trying to say here. Unless a player signs on loan which still involves signing a contract then they would have to sign the deal to play. Don't think I ever said anything about that all I said was why did we give Sammon a 3 year deal in the first place!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mars plastic Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 You're right - I did continue for far too long. Hence the apology. Have you never got carried away with your posting style and later regretted it? That is your posting style tho. Having sly digs constantly and using those daft wee cartoons to try to convey your point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hearts007 Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 Rudi'sleftfoot, on 09 May 2017 - 12:45 PM, said: Take a bow. You were being a dick, you have appoligised. No doubt some will still have a go. Very few folk appoligise after getting personal. The Hamilton Jambo fellow doesn't help himself tho! Correct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 Macphee's comment on the 'Tynecastle crowd being able to break a striker' was telling, and clearly about Sammon. Oh boy is this thread a depressing read. I've come to the conclusion that there are some Hearts fans who do not deserve to follow a good team. Some of our support is just toxic... Over the years I've wondered why it always seemed to be Hearts fans who did embarrassing stuff like throwing bananas at Mark Walters, booing dead Popes, Physically attacking an opposition manager in our own stadium; paying for planes to fly over Tynecastle. All excruciating stuff that has happened during my time as an Hearts fan... People agitated for Robbie to leave and got their wish. He got fed up and left at first opportunity that came his way, trying to tell himself that it was the right move at the right time...Well it was the right time as far as he was concerned. Not so good for us, but I don't blame him... We then got a new young, ambitious Head Coach. Everyone got on board and the support was finally united - for all of 1 game. Now all I see is people directing their ire towards the new coach. They cannot look past the responsibility lying with the Head Coach and want his head. Why? We can all see that the players are clearly not doing what the manager is saying he wants them to do - it couldn't be more obvious. Why? To go back to being what we've always been - underachievers with a reputation for fielding big teams of hoofballers. Let's get a big physical number 9! Let's get Tommy fecking Wright! Let's get 1970s and 80s tactics and style of manager because this new fangled style of football where you play the ball on the deck hasn't bedded immediately... Are Hearts a big club? No we are not! People have expectations of winning the majority of games yet our silverware haul is 3 cups in 50+ years. The 2 do not marry up. We are only a big club in Edinburgh ie not even in Scottish terms! People say that Cathro is rubbish because football is a results game. Well in that case Hearts are rubbish! Our silverware record for a big club in this small pond is embarrassing - Newcastle and Spurs fans should laugh at us... Changing a style of football is not easy. I know nothing about being a professional footballer. For years I've sat watching players in warm up "controlling" a ball by knocking it 3 yards to their left of right. It's not what I regard as close control, nor instant control...I've come to the conclusion that the sort of control you see from Messi in a game is not the sort that lesser players can do, so they are perhaps coached to direct/deflect the ball rather than cushion it and kill it's momentum? Thinking about it Messi doesn't kill the momentum of the ball either, he is just not 3 yards behind the ball after his first touch! However, there is no reason why, with the correct personnel Hearts cannot develop a possession game. Tynecastle is a small pitch but I've watched the OF, particularly Celtic, knocking the ball left to right and back along our 18 yard line whilst we stood off them or chased shadows. That is how better players tire out fit, but not so good players. It is not exclusive to Barcelona. It is just professional football as far as I can see. Why have we only had 5 good strikers in the last 20 years? Macphee has identified it as per above. Precisely because there is a large element of our support who just want to watch professionals play kids football. They want blood and thunder - "Get the ball up the effing park!" then "FFS get it in the box Hertz". Unsophisticated football minds who would not dream of attending a tactical Q&A session with the manager but will sit here on a thread debating the output as if their opinion counts for more than the Club's management's. They see what Levein and Cathro and Macphee cannot! Sorry, but that's balls. Watching football doesn't make someone an expert on football. I've been doing it for 40 years but I would not dream of telling 30-year old Ian Cathro how to do his job! All I can do is try to interpret what he is trying to do. I will nail my colours to the mast. Being an Hearts supporter is the weirdest thing - we had terrible teams in the 70s and won nothing, We had good teams in the 80s and won nothing. The reason the OF won stuff is that they control games. Yes, they can get a bit of help sometimes from officials, but OUR style of football ALWAYS gave the officials the opportunity to gift them late penalties etc. Our style of football DID NOT WORK for us. We simply have to move on, evolve on the park. Off the park, the Hearts fans need to give the management a chance, give the players support even when they mess up. What I perceive Cathro to be trying to do is not easy, and he's made mistakes but calling him an "experiment" and saying he has failed is frankly stupid. Currently his methods are not working, but let's give the guy a chance to turn it round. I have no problem with us training coaches on the job, we've got nothing to lose. We are only glorious in our own dreams. If they get it right then we could get something special, If not, then we can all go back to employing Tommy Wrights and get enthused about him signing tryers like Neil Macfarlane, Jamie MacAllister, John Millar etc and having motivated teams who come unstuck 99% of the time when it matters...Let's not be in such a hurry to revert to the same old "nearly men" ways... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hall Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 People thinking we just need to get the recruitment right in the summer is a bit naive. If only it was that easy. We need strong management. Totally agree. We all saw how we can play with the current team (Rangers 4-1 an obvious one!) yet these same players are clearly not doing it for the current management. To me it's obvious they are not playing for Cathro! Amazed how many seem to have changed their opinion after last night. Admittedly I wasn't there last night but I have been to every home game this season and have listened to Cathro talk a great game in the media throughout his time here, nothing has shown me that he can turn things around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 That is your posting style tho. Having sly digs constantly and using those daft wee cartoons to try to convey your point. And what's your 'style' mars? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mars plastic Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 And what's your 'style' mars? I'll let other folk be the judge of that, Morgs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Findlay Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 Actually, smart arse, he finished 2nd in his first full season. He also turned round a team in the relegation zone when he joined to finish mid-table. Your comparison is shite but that's to be expected. No. You would have sacked him. Just admit it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ibpc Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 Oh boy is this thread a depressing read. I've come to the conclusion that there are some Hearts fans who do not deserve to follow a good team. Some of our support is just toxic... Over the years I've wondered why it always seemed to be Hearts fans who did embarrassing stuff like throwing bananas at Mark Walters, booing dead Popes, Physically attacking an opposition manager in our own stadium; paying for planes to fly over Tynecastle. All excruciating stuff that has happened during my time as an Hearts fan... People agitated for Robbie to leave and got their wish. He got fed up and left at first opportunity that came his way, trying to tell himself that it was the right move at the right time...Well it was the right time as far as he was concerned. Not so good for us, but I don't blame him... We then got a new young, ambitious Head Coach. Everyone got on board and the support was finally united - for all of 1 game. Now all I see is people directing their ire towards the new coach. They cannot look past the responsibility lying with the Head Coach and want his head. Why? We can all see that the players are clearly not doing what the manager is saying he wants them to do - it couldn't be more obvious. Why? To go back to being what we've always been - underachievers with a reputation for fielding big teams of hoofballers. Let's get a big physical number 9! Let's get Tommy fecking Wright! Let's get 1970s and 80s tactics and style of manager because this new fangled style of football where you play the ball on the deck hasn't bedded immediately... Are Hearts a big club? No we are not! People have expectations of winning the majority of games yet our silverware haul is 3 cups in 50+ years. The 2 do not marry up. We are only a big club in Edinburgh ie not even in Scottish terms! People say that Cathro is rubbish because football is a results game. Well in that case Hearts are rubbish! Our silverware record for a big club in this small pond is embarrassing - Newcastle and Spurs fans should laugh at us... Changing a style of football is not easy. I know nothing about being a professional footballer. For years I've sat watching players in warm up "controlling" a ball by knocking it 3 yards to their left of right. It's not what I regard as close control, nor instant control...I've come to the conclusion that the sort of control you see from Messi in a game is not the sort that lesser players can do, so they are perhaps coached to direct/deflect the ball rather than cushion it and kill it's momentum? Thinking about it Messi doesn't kill the momentum of the ball either, he is just not 3 yards behind the ball after his first touch! However, there is no reason why, with the correct personnel Hearts cannot develop a possession game. Tynecastle is a small pitch but I've watched the OF, particularly Celtic, knocking the ball left to right and back along our 18 yard line whilst we stood off them or chased shadows. That is how better players tire out fit, but not so good players. It is not exclusive to Barcelona. It is just professional football as far as I can see. Why have we only had 5 good strikers in the last 20 years? Macphee has identified it as per above. Precisely because there is a large element of our support who just want to watch professionals play kids football. They want blood and thunder - "Get the ball up the effing park!" then "FFS get it in the box Hertz". Unsophisticated football minds who would not dream of attending a tactical Q&A session with the manager but will sit here on a thread debating the output as if their opinion counts for more than the Club's management's. They see what Levein and Cathro and Macphee cannot! Sorry, but that's balls. Watching football doesn't make someone an expert on football. I've been doing it for 40 years but I would not dream of telling 30-year old Ian Cathro how to do his job! All I can do is try to interpret what he is trying to do. I will nail my colours to the mast. Being an Hearts supporter is the weirdest thing - we had terrible teams in the 70s and won nothing, We had good teams in the 80s and won nothing. The reason the OF won stuff is that they control games. Yes, they can get a bit of help sometimes from officials, but OUR style of football ALWAYS gave the officials the opportunity to gift them late penalties etc. Our style of football DID NOT WORK for us. We simply have to move on, evolve on the park. Off the park, the Hearts fans need to give the management a chance, give the players support even when they mess up. What I perceive Cathro to be trying to do is not easy, and he's made mistakes but calling him an "experiment" and saying he has failed is frankly stupid. Currently his methods are not working, but let's give the guy a chance to turn it round. I have no problem with us training coaches on the job, we've got nothing to lose. We are only glorious in our own dreams. If they get it right then we could get something special, If not, then we can all go back to employing Tommy Wrights and get enthused about him signing tryers like Neil Macfarlane, Jamie MacAllister, John Millar etc and having motivated teams who come unstuck 99% of the time when it matters...Let's not be in such a hurry to revert to the same old "nearly men" ways... Take a bow, sir. At last the voice of a reasonable man. Onwards and upwards - in the long run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboAl Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 You can theorise all you like. I prefer using evidence. So do I but I'm willing to take short term pain for long term gain. You could still have commented on the merits or otherwise of the theory. You have mentioned Tommy Wright to take over. Since that hasn't happened you have no evidence that he will do any better, or worse, than any previous incumbent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flogel14 Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 Oh boy is this thread a depressing read. I've come to the conclusion that there are some Hearts fans who do not deserve to follow a good team. Some of our support is just toxic... Over the years I've wondered why it always seemed to be Hearts fans who did embarrassing stuff like throwing bananas at Mark Walters, booing dead Popes, Physically attacking an opposition manager in our own stadium; paying for planes to fly over Tynecastle. All excruciating stuff that has happened during my time as an Hearts fan... People agitated for Robbie to leave and got their wish. He got fed up and left at first opportunity that came his way, trying to tell himself that it was the right move at the right time...Well it was the right time as far as he was concerned. Not so good for us, but I don't blame him... We then got a new young, ambitious Head Coach. Everyone got on board and the support was finally united - for all of 1 game. Now all I see is people directing their ire towards the new coach. They cannot look past the responsibility lying with the Head Coach and want his head. Why? We can all see that the players are clearly not doing what the manager is saying he wants them to do - it couldn't be more obvious. Why? To go back to being what we've always been - underachievers with a reputation for fielding big teams of hoofballers. Let's get a big physical number 9! Let's get Tommy fecking Wright! Let's get 1970s and 80s tactics and style of manager because this new fangled style of football where you play the ball on the deck hasn't bedded immediately... Are Hearts a big club? No we are not! People have expectations of winning the majority of games yet our silverware haul is 3 cups in 50+ years. The 2 do not marry up. We are only a big club in Edinburgh ie not even in Scottish terms! People say that Cathro is rubbish because football is a results game. Well in that case Hearts are rubbish! Our silverware record for a big club in this small pond is embarrassing - Newcastle and Spurs fans should laugh at us... Changing a style of football is not easy. I know nothing about being a professional footballer. For years I've sat watching players in warm up "controlling" a ball by knocking it 3 yards to their left of right. It's not what I regard as close control, nor instant control...I've come to the conclusion that the sort of control you see from Messi in a game is not the sort that lesser players can do, so they are perhaps coached to direct/deflect the ball rather than cushion it and kill it's momentum? Thinking about it Messi doesn't kill the momentum of the ball either, he is just not 3 yards behind the ball after his first touch! However, there is no reason why, with the correct personnel Hearts cannot develop a possession game. Tynecastle is a small pitch but I've watched the OF, particularly Celtic, knocking the ball left to right and back along our 18 yard line whilst we stood off them or chased shadows. That is how better players tire out fit, but not so good players. It is not exclusive to Barcelona. It is just professional football as far as I can see. Why have we only had 5 good strikers in the last 20 years? Macphee has identified it as per above. Precisely because there is a large element of our support who just want to watch professionals play kids football. They want blood and thunder - "Get the ball up the effing park!" then "FFS get it in the box Hertz". Unsophisticated football minds who would not dream of attending a tactical Q&A session with the manager but will sit here on a thread debating the output as if their opinion counts for more than the Club's management's. They see what Levein and Cathro and Macphee cannot! Sorry, but that's balls. Watching football doesn't make someone an expert on football. I've been doing it for 40 years but I would not dream of telling 30-year old Ian Cathro how to do his job! All I can do is try to interpret what he is trying to do. I will nail my colours to the mast. Being an Hearts supporter is the weirdest thing - we had terrible teams in the 70s and won nothing, We had good teams in the 80s and won nothing. The reason the OF won stuff is that they control games. Yes, they can get a bit of help sometimes from officials, but OUR style of football ALWAYS gave the officials the opportunity to gift them late penalties etc. Our style of football DID NOT WORK for us. We simply have to move on, evolve on the park. Off the park, the Hearts fans need to give the management a chance, give the players support even when they mess up. What I perceive Cathro to be trying to do is not easy, and he's made mistakes but calling him an "experiment" and saying he has failed is frankly stupid. Currently his methods are not working, but let's give the guy a chance to turn it round. I have no problem with us training coaches on the job, we've got nothing to lose. We are only glorious in our own dreams. If they get it right then we could get something special, If not, then we can all go back to employing Tommy Wrights and get enthused about him signing tryers like Neil Macfarlane, Jamie MacAllister, John Millar etc and having motivated teams who come unstuck 99% of the time when it matters...Let's not be in such a hurry to revert to the same old "nearly men" ways... Where did that come from? Tremendous post! But who's going to be first with the "but the results are shite and there's nae fight..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull's-eye Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 Oh boy is this thread a depressing read. I've come to the conclusion that there are some Hearts fans who do not deserve to follow a good team. Some of our support is just toxic... Over the years I've wondered why it always seemed to be Hearts fans who did embarrassing stuff like throwing bananas at Mark Walters, booing dead Popes, Physically attacking an opposition manager in our own stadium; paying for planes to fly over Tynecastle. All excruciating stuff that has happened during my time as an Hearts fan... People agitated for Robbie to leave and got their wish. He got fed up and left at first opportunity that came his way, trying to tell himself that it was the right move at the right time...Well it was the right time as far as he was concerned. Not so good for us, but I don't blame him... We then got a new young, ambitious Head Coach. Everyone got on board and the support was finally united - for all of 1 game. Now all I see is people directing their ire towards the new coach. They cannot look past the responsibility lying with the Head Coach and want his head. Why? We can all see that the players are clearly not doing what the manager is saying he wants them to do - it couldn't be more obvious. Why? To go back to being what we've always been - underachievers with a reputation for fielding big teams of hoofballers. Let's get a big physical number 9! Let's get Tommy fecking Wright! Let's get 1970s and 80s tactics and style of manager because this new fangled style of football where you play the ball on the deck hasn't bedded immediately... Are Hearts a big club? No we are not! People have expectations of winning the majority of games yet our silverware haul is 3 cups in 50+ years. The 2 do not marry up. We are only a big club in Edinburgh ie not even in Scottish terms! People say that Cathro is rubbish because football is a results game. Well in that case Hearts are rubbish! Our silverware record for a big club in this small pond is embarrassing - Newcastle and Spurs fans should laugh at us... Changing a style of football is not easy. I know nothing about being a professional footballer. For years I've sat watching players in warm up "controlling" a ball by knocking it 3 yards to their left of right. It's not what I regard as close control, nor instant control...I've come to the conclusion that the sort of control you see from Messi in a game is not the sort that lesser players can do, so they are perhaps coached to direct/deflect the ball rather than cushion it and kill it's momentum? Thinking about it Messi doesn't kill the momentum of the ball either, he is just not 3 yards behind the ball after his first touch! However, there is no reason why, with the correct personnel Hearts cannot develop a possession game. Tynecastle is a small pitch but I've watched the OF, particularly Celtic, knocking the ball left to right and back along our 18 yard line whilst we stood off them or chased shadows. That is how better players tire out fit, but not so good players. It is not exclusive to Barcelona. It is just professional football as far as I can see. Why have we only had 5 good strikers in the last 20 years? Macphee has identified it as per above. Precisely because there is a large element of our support who just want to watch professionals play kids football. They want blood and thunder - "Get the ball up the effing park!" then "FFS get it in the box Hertz". Unsophisticated football minds who would not dream of attending a tactical Q&A session with the manager but will sit here on a thread debating the output as if their opinion counts for more than the Club's management's. They see what Levein and Cathro and Macphee cannot! Sorry, but that's balls. Watching football doesn't make someone an expert on football. I've been doing it for 40 years but I would not dream of telling 30-year old Ian Cathro how to do his job! All I can do is try to interpret what he is trying to do. I will nail my colours to the mast. Being an Hearts supporter is the weirdest thing - we had terrible teams in the 70s and won nothing, We had good teams in the 80s and won nothing. The reason the OF won stuff is that they control games. Yes, they can get a bit of help sometimes from officials, but OUR style of football ALWAYS gave the officials the opportunity to gift them late penalties etc. Our style of football DID NOT WORK for us. We simply have to move on, evolve on the park. Off the park, the Hearts fans need to give the management a chance, give the players support even when they mess up. What I perceive Cathro to be trying to do is not easy, and he's made mistakes but calling him an "experiment" and saying he has failed is frankly stupid. Currently his methods are not working, but let's give the guy a chance to turn it round. I have no problem with us training coaches on the job, we've got nothing to lose. We are only glorious in our own dreams. If they get it right then we could get something special, If not, then we can all go back to employing Tommy Wrights and get enthused about him signing tryers like Neil Macfarlane, Jamie MacAllister, John Millar etc and having motivated teams who come unstuck 99% of the time when it matters...Let's not be in such a hurry to revert to the same old "nearly men" ways... Best post I've ever read on here. 10/10 nailed it bang on the cash. Cap doffed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kila Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/teams/hearts/11-things-we-learned-from-hearts-meet-the-management-event-1-4440923 11 things we learned from Hearts? Meet the Management event Ian Cathro and Austin MacPhee, along with a number of Hearts coaches, gave a presentation to fans in the Gorgie Suite on Monday evening. In attendance was Joel Sked, who gives his take on proceedings Cathro fronts up ?I am standing here to take it, I want to take it.? Despite all the criticism, the questions, the probing and the interest, Ian Cathro has continued to front up. Twenty four hours after defeat to Aberdeen the Hearts head coach was facing a room full of disgruntled fans. Lesser managers, lesser characters may have found a way to have the evening cancelled. At times, Cathro is to talking what roundabouts are to Livingston. He?s not as succinct as Austin MacPhee but what he tries to do is provide honesty. And he was honest in evaluating his time at the club. When asked about a ?reasonable time? to make a success of it, Cathro said, for him, that time has ?already surpassed?. And he?s had to reassess and learn. He spoke of preparing to take the step into management. His belief was always to take over at the club with a full pre-season ahead of him, but that went out the window when the opportunity presented itself at Hearts. ?I couldn?t not come here. It would have been the biggest mistake of my life (if I didn?t)... I think you can see someone sitting in front of you who is not going to get broken, and I tell you what, I?m not crumbling.? Cathro is no revolutionary The Hearts boss was unfairly painted by some as a Silicon Valley whizz-kid nerd here to reinvent football one spreadsheet and pie chart at a time. He professed to no such thing. Nor is he an ?experiment? as some prominent voices in the media have labelled him. At the time of his appointment he was a football coach with five years? experience at clubs in Portugal, Spain and England being handed his first role as a head coach. He presented his footballing ethos and there was nothing complex or revolutionary about it. It is a simplistic, idealistic model which focuses on four key areas: wanting the ball and building up to play; to stay, dominate and take risks in the opponent?s half; to press aggressively when the ball is lost; and to defend pro-actively with a high line. If it comes to fruition it?ll have Tynecastle rocking to cheers rather than jeers. Live by the sword, die by the sword ?There is nothing that can happen that can rock my belief in us doing what we are going to do and it being the right thing for this club to progress.? The phrase ?doth protest too much? comes to mind, yet Cathro seems to have a mantra. One which means he is not for shifting. The coach will live and die by his sword. The sword in this case is his football model. The 30-year-old used Newcastle as an example. In the season they were relegated they changed what they believed in, and opted for another route to their destination but ended up getting lost. That won?t happen at Tynecastle. Cathro believes in himself and how he sees football being played. They ?get it? Said by assistant Austin MacPhee: ?We want to find the right players on the sides of the pitch that not only excite you when they run down them but there is somebody in the box to head the ball in the goal. And they also have the capacity to defend the way we want to defend, which is high, which is aggressive, which is keeping them in their half. ?When they receive the ball you know they are going to be robust. They are going to be Hearts players. They are going to go into tackles that bring everyone to their feet. Because those things are important and they are a key identity to the club. ?The hurt in the Hibs defeat and the manner of the defeat has not been lost on us. It has not been lost on us. That lack of fight that was shown there has not been lost on our recruitment process. ?We need to make sure the team has an identity. ?If Plan A is not going well, Plan B is being robust enough not to lose a goal. Easter Road, Plan A is not going well, we weren?t robust enough to lose a goal in a derby in that way. There is an element there of knowing the league, knowing the country, knowing the environment and being equipped for that. ?It?s very important that core, that identity, that six, seven out of ten, will header out the box, stop the shot, foul at the right time, know the league, win the derby. It?s important that is in our team and we want to add that in the summer.? Changes are coming One area emphasised time and time again was recruitment. The management DO realise it wasn?t good enough in January. There will be changes. Players will leave and players will depart. The management team are looking to strengthen the centre of midfield and the centre of defence. They want more options on the flank and certainly another forward. It led to a moment which brought a collective question from the floor: ?GOALKEEPER?!?!? As uncertain as Jack Hamilton?s goalkeeping against Aberdeen, there was no definitive answer on that front. Recuitment I ?It?s one area of the club we are trying to modernise, for the reasons all of you know, probably not enough of it has been good,? said MacPhee. ?None of us are shying away from that; Ann Budge, Craig (Levein), myself, Ian. We?re looking to innovate with that. We?re trying to de-risk it.? While he reiterated that the January window is a difficult time to re-shape a squad, MacPhee recognised that the club are striving to better themselves in that aspect. One example given was the injury to John Souttar in late January at Celtic Park. There were little to no contingency plan in place. Players will be watched more often and by more people. The club have recently had a presentation from Brentford, one of the most innovative recruiters in world football, and will have others from both Manchester City and Manchester United. They want to gain an edge, to be ahead of Aberdeen, Celtic and Hibs for players. They want to learn, improve and make the structure more robust. Recruitment II There has been calls for, a want of a better phrase, more Britishness in the team. The management team understand and recognise the equilibrium is not correct within the squad. Cathro had said in an interview at the weekend that there will be a focus on the British market. One fan, however, made the point that foreign players have done extremely well at Tynecastle and are much-loved, fearful that the club will be cutting of its nose to spite their face. Cathro stated that their recruitment is ruling out no one but there will be an emphasis on players who have experience of Scottish or English football. Academy Another criticism thrown at the club of late is the lack of young talent from the academy emerging. This is somewhat harsh considering the likes of Rory Currie and Liam Smith joined a core of players already in the squad who emerged from the system. There has also been a lack of understanding from such critics. Dig a little deeper and they will discover that because of mismanagement by the previous owner the academy had been neglected and required a complete revamp, a task which has been undertaken expansively by academy director Roger Arnott and director of football Craig Levein. Players have had to be recruited from far and wide to plug holes and supplement a skeleton squad. However, the club took in its largest single intake of academy graduates. Those eight are seen as the next crop, the future. There is big hopes for them and the club are pushing them, having moved players on deemed not good enough to open space for them to get minutes playing in the under-20s. Goncalves will be a star Both Cathro and MacPhee were lavish in their praise of Esmael Goncalves despite concerns from the audience about his erratic finishing and tendency to drift to the periphery of games. His lifestyle and dedication to his craft was enthused by MacPhee as was his personality. ?A Tynecastle crowd can finish a striker. That person needs to be a robust, confident boy.? Cathro believes within six months he will be the name on the back of fans? shirts and there is a desire to find striker who complements him. Aaron Hughes was a fine catch At the end of MacPhee?s presentation he was fulsome in his praise of Aaron Hughes. Yet it was clearly and simply stated he wasn?t the future of the football club. After all he?s 37 years old. But he is here to help, educate and develop the future. His experience is there to rub off on the likes of John Souttar and Jack Hamilton, the latter he goes fishing with. The star of the show...almost The Q&A session brought one of the highlights of the evening, a moment when even MacPhee was upstaged. A young fan, barely in her teens maybe even younger, offered one of the most passionate, thought-provoking, analytical observations you will hear in a long time. At first she was reading the question she had written down from the paper handed to her. It seemed that maybe a relative had persuaded her to ask their question. But she soon discarded the bit of paper and allowed not only her passion but inquisitive mind to take over. ?Where is the link up play? I watch Jamie Walker standing in the middle of the park with the ball and he can?t go forward,? she said. ?We pass it back so much and we talk about ball possession but seriously there are no options to go forward and Isma?s on the wing. You get it up the park but who?s in the box? You can?t put a cross in, you?ve got to go back, back. So I?m asking where is the link-up play?? She wasn?t finished there. There were still more relevant points to come: ?Our players are constantly talking about fighting back when we lose the ball, where is the spirit. Scottish football is physical. Look at Aberdeen they have physical players.? You could hear, feel even, in her voice, the hurt of having to witness what she has witnessed in the last five months. What it means to her. But not only that, a question that had substance to it, something one or many of the media could learn something from. As soon as she discarded her bit of paper, ears started to pick up on what she was saying, momentum grew and she was soon being cheered on and backed by those in the room. She was expressing what everyone else was feeling. She had everyone behind her, until she queried why Bjorn Johnson wasn?t playing. A step too far for many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 No. You would have sacked him. Just admit it.You don't like your arse being handed to you, do you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboAl Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 Oh boy is this thread a depressing read. I've come to the conclusion that there are some Hearts fans who do not deserve to follow a good team. Some of our support is just toxic... Over the years I've wondered why it always seemed to be Hearts fans who did embarrassing stuff like throwing bananas at Mark Walters, booing dead Popes, Physically attacking an opposition manager in our own stadium; paying for planes to fly over Tynecastle. All excruciating stuff that has happened during my time as an Hearts fan... People agitated for Robbie to leave and got their wish. He got fed up and left at first opportunity that came his way, trying to tell himself that it was the right move at the right time...Well it was the right time as far as he was concerned. Not so good for us, but I don't blame him... We then got a new young, ambitious Head Coach. Everyone got on board and the support was finally united - for all of 1 game. Now all I see is people directing their ire towards the new coach. They cannot look past the responsibility lying with the Head Coach and want his head. Why? We can all see that the players are clearly not doing what the manager is saying he wants them to do - it couldn't be more obvious. Why? To go back to being what we've always been - underachievers with a reputation for fielding big teams of hoofballers. Let's get a big physical number 9! Let's get Tommy fecking Wright! Let's get 1970s and 80s tactics and style of manager because this new fangled style of football where you play the ball on the deck hasn't bedded immediately... Are Hearts a big club? No we are not! People have expectations of winning the majority of games yet our silverware haul is 3 cups in 50+ years. The 2 do not marry up. We are only a big club in Edinburgh ie not even in Scottish terms! People say that Cathro is rubbish because football is a results game. Well in that case Hearts are rubbish! Our silverware record for a big club in this small pond is embarrassing - Newcastle and Spurs fans should laugh at us... Changing a style of football is not easy. I know nothing about being a professional footballer. For years I've sat watching players in warm up "controlling" a ball by knocking it 3 yards to their left of right. It's not what I regard as close control, nor instant control...I've come to the conclusion that the sort of control you see from Messi in a game is not the sort that lesser players can do, so they are perhaps coached to direct/deflect the ball rather than cushion it and kill it's momentum? Thinking about it Messi doesn't kill the momentum of the ball either, he is just not 3 yards behind the ball after his first touch! However, there is no reason why, with the correct personnel Hearts cannot develop a possession game. Tynecastle is a small pitch but I've watched the OF, particularly Celtic, knocking the ball left to right and back along our 18 yard line whilst we stood off them or chased shadows. That is how better players tire out fit, but not so good players. It is not exclusive to Barcelona. It is just professional football as far as I can see. Why have we only had 5 good strikers in the last 20 years? Macphee has identified it as per above. Precisely because there is a large element of our support who just want to watch professionals play kids football. They want blood and thunder - "Get the ball up the effing park!" then "FFS get it in the box Hertz". Unsophisticated football minds who would not dream of attending a tactical Q&A session with the manager but will sit here on a thread debating the output as if their opinion counts for more than the Club's management's. They see what Levein and Cathro and Macphee cannot! Sorry, but that's balls. Watching football doesn't make someone an expert on football. I've been doing it for 40 years but I would not dream of telling 30-year old Ian Cathro how to do his job! All I can do is try to interpret what he is trying to do. I will nail my colours to the mast. Being an Hearts supporter is the weirdest thing - we had terrible teams in the 70s and won nothing, We had good teams in the 80s and won nothing. The reason the OF won stuff is that they control games. Yes, they can get a bit of help sometimes from officials, but OUR style of football ALWAYS gave the officials the opportunity to gift them late penalties etc. Our style of football DID NOT WORK for us. We simply have to move on, evolve on the park. Off the park, the Hearts fans need to give the management a chance, give the players support even when they mess up. What I perceive Cathro to be trying to do is not easy, and he's made mistakes but calling him an "experiment" and saying he has failed is frankly stupid. Currently his methods are not working, but let's give the guy a chance to turn it round. I have no problem with us training coaches on the job, we've got nothing to lose. We are only glorious in our own dreams. If they get it right then we could get something special, If not, then we can all go back to employing Tommy Wrights and get enthused about him signing tryers like Neil Macfarlane, Jamie MacAllister, John Millar etc and having motivated teams who come unstuck 99% of the time when it matters...Let's not be in such a hurry to revert to the same old "nearly men" ways... Absolutely brilliant realistic summary. I'll nit pick when I say you maybe shouldn't have mentioned Newcastle. Apart from the Championship, where they needn't have been anyway, they have not won a domestic trophy since the FA cup in 1955. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsnomarooned Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 Oh boy is this thread a depressing read. I've come to the conclusion that there are some Hearts fans who do not deserve to follow a good team. Some of our support is just toxic... Over the years I've wondered why it always seemed to be Hearts fans who did embarrassing stuff like throwing bananas at Mark Walters, booing dead Popes, Physically attacking an opposition manager in our own stadium; paying for planes to fly over Tynecastle. All excruciating stuff that has happened during my time as an Hearts fan... People agitated for Robbie to leave and got their wish. He got fed up and left at first opportunity that came his way, trying to tell himself that it was the right move at the right time...Well it was the right time as far as he was concerned. Not so good for us, but I don't blame him... We then got a new young, ambitious Head Coach. Everyone got on board and the support was finally united - for all of 1 game. Now all I see is people directing their ire towards the new coach. They cannot look past the responsibility lying with the Head Coach and want his head. Why? We can all see that the players are clearly not doing what the manager is saying he wants them to do - it couldn't be more obvious. Why? To go back to being what we've always been - underachievers with a reputation for fielding big teams of hoofballers. Let's get a big physical number 9! Let's get Tommy fecking Wright! Let's get 1970s and 80s tactics and style of manager because this new fangled style of football where you play the ball on the deck hasn't bedded immediately... Are Hearts a big club? No we are not! People have expectations of winning the majority of games yet our silverware haul is 3 cups in 50+ years. The 2 do not marry up. We are only a big club in Edinburgh ie not even in Scottish terms! People say that Cathro is rubbish because football is a results game. Well in that case Hearts are rubbish! Our silverware record for a big club in this small pond is embarrassing - Newcastle and Spurs fans should laugh at us... Changing a style of football is not easy. I know nothing about being a professional footballer. For years I've sat watching players in warm up "controlling" a ball by knocking it 3 yards to their left of right. It's not what I regard as close control, nor instant control...I've come to the conclusion that the sort of control you see from Messi in a game is not the sort that lesser players can do, so they are perhaps coached to direct/deflect the ball rather than cushion it and kill it's momentum? Thinking about it Messi doesn't kill the momentum of the ball either, he is just not 3 yards behind the ball after his first touch! However, there is no reason why, with the correct personnel Hearts cannot develop a possession game. Tynecastle is a small pitch but I've watched the OF, particularly Celtic, knocking the ball left to right and back along our 18 yard line whilst we stood off them or chased shadows. That is how better players tire out fit, but not so good players. It is not exclusive to Barcelona. It is just professional football as far as I can see. Why have we only had 5 good strikers in the last 20 years? Macphee has identified it as per above. Precisely because there is a large element of our support who just want to watch professionals play kids football. They want blood and thunder - "Get the ball up the effing park!" then "FFS get it in the box Hertz". Unsophisticated football minds who would not dream of attending a tactical Q&A session with the manager but will sit here on a thread debating the output as if their opinion counts for more than the Club's management's. They see what Levein and Cathro and Macphee cannot! Sorry, but that's balls. Watching football doesn't make someone an expert on football. I've been doing it for 40 years but I would not dream of telling 30-year old Ian Cathro how to do his job! All I can do is try to interpret what he is trying to do. I will nail my colours to the mast. Being an Hearts supporter is the weirdest thing - we had terrible teams in the 70s and won nothing, We had good teams in the 80s and won nothing. The reason the OF won stuff is that they control games. Yes, they can get a bit of help sometimes from officials, but OUR style of football ALWAYS gave the officials the opportunity to gift them late penalties etc. Our style of football DID NOT WORK for us. We simply have to move on, evolve on the park. Off the park, the Hearts fans need to give the management a chance, give the players support even when they mess up. What I perceive Cathro to be trying to do is not easy, and he's made mistakes but calling him an "experiment" and saying he has failed is frankly stupid. Currently his methods are not working, but let's give the guy a chance to turn it round. I have no problem with us training coaches on the job, we've got nothing to lose. We are only glorious in our own dreams. If they get it right then we could get something special, If not, then we can all go back to employing Tommy Wrights and get enthused about him signing tryers like Neil Macfarlane, Jamie MacAllister, John Millar etc and having motivated teams who come unstuck 99% of the time when it matters...Let's not be in such a hurry to revert to the same old "nearly men" ways... What he said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottg71 Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 Oh boy is this thread a depressing read. I've come to the conclusion that there are some Hearts fans who do not deserve to follow a good team. Some of our support is just toxic... Over the years I've wondered why it always seemed to be Hearts fans who did embarrassing stuff like throwing bananas at Mark Walters, booing dead Popes, Physically attacking an opposition manager in our own stadium; paying for planes to fly over Tynecastle. All excruciating stuff that has happened during my time as an Hearts fan... People agitated for Robbie to leave and got their wish. He got fed up and left at first opportunity that came his way, trying to tell himself that it was the right move at the right time...Well it was the right time as far as he was concerned. Not so good for us, but I don't blame him... We then got a new young, ambitious Head Coach. Everyone got on board and the support was finally united - for all of 1 game. Now all I see is people directing their ire towards the new coach. They cannot look past the responsibility lying with the Head Coach and want his head. Why? We can all see that the players are clearly not doing what the manager is saying he wants them to do - it couldn't be more obvious. Why? To go back to being what we've always been - underachievers with a reputation for fielding big teams of hoofballers. Let's get a big physical number 9! Let's get Tommy fecking Wright! Let's get 1970s and 80s tactics and style of manager because this new fangled style of football where you play the ball on the deck hasn't bedded immediately... Are Hearts a big club? No we are not! People have expectations of winning the majority of games yet our silverware haul is 3 cups in 50+ years. The 2 do not marry up. We are only a big club in Edinburgh ie not even in Scottish terms! People say that Cathro is rubbish because football is a results game. Well in that case Hearts are rubbish! Our silverware record for a big club in this small pond is embarrassing - Newcastle and Spurs fans should laugh at us... Changing a style of football is not easy. I know nothing about being a professional footballer. For years I've sat watching players in warm up "controlling" a ball by knocking it 3 yards to their left of right. It's not what I regard as close control, nor instant control...I've come to the conclusion that the sort of control you see from Messi in a game is not the sort that lesser players can do, so they are perhaps coached to direct/deflect the ball rather than cushion it and kill it's momentum? Thinking about it Messi doesn't kill the momentum of the ball either, he is just not 3 yards behind the ball after his first touch! However, there is no reason why, with the correct personnel Hearts cannot develop a possession game. Tynecastle is a small pitch but I've watched the OF, particularly Celtic, knocking the ball left to right and back along our 18 yard line whilst we stood off them or chased shadows. That is how better players tire out fit, but not so good players. It is not exclusive to Barcelona. It is just professional football as far as I can see. Why have we only had 5 good strikers in the last 20 years? Macphee has identified it as per above. Precisely because there is a large element of our support who just want to watch professionals play kids football. They want blood and thunder - "Get the ball up the effing park!" then "FFS get it in the box Hertz". Unsophisticated football minds who would not dream of attending a tactical Q&A session with the manager but will sit here on a thread debating the output as if their opinion counts for more than the Club's management's. They see what Levein and Cathro and Macphee cannot! Sorry, but that's balls. Watching football doesn't make someone an expert on football. I've been doing it for 40 years but I would not dream of telling 30-year old Ian Cathro how to do his job! All I can do is try to interpret what he is trying to do. I will nail my colours to the mast. Being an Hearts supporter is the weirdest thing - we had terrible teams in the 70s and won nothing, We had good teams in the 80s and won nothing. The reason the OF won stuff is that they control games. Yes, they can get a bit of help sometimes from officials, but OUR style of football ALWAYS gave the officials the opportunity to gift them late penalties etc. Our style of football DID NOT WORK for us. We simply have to move on, evolve on the park. Off the park, the Hearts fans need to give the management a chance, give the players support even when they mess up. What I perceive Cathro to be trying to do is not easy, and he's made mistakes but calling him an "experiment" and saying he has failed is frankly stupid. Currently his methods are not working, but let's give the guy a chance to turn it round. I have no problem with us training coaches on the job, we've got nothing to lose. We are only glorious in our own dreams. If they get it right then we could get something special, If not, then we can all go back to employing Tommy Wrights and get enthused about him signing tryers like Neil Macfarlane, Jamie MacAllister, John Millar etc and having motivated teams who come unstuck 99% of the time when it matters...Let's not be in such a hurry to revert to the same old "nearly men" ways... Superb post. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Bapswent Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 Oh boy is this thread a depressing read. I've come to the conclusion that there are some Hearts fans who do not deserve to follow a good team. Some of our support is just toxic... Over the years I've wondered why it always seemed to be Hearts fans who did embarrassing stuff like throwing bananas at Mark Walters, booing dead Popes, Physically attacking an opposition manager in our own stadium; paying for planes to fly over Tynecastle. All excruciating stuff that has happened during my time as an Hearts fan... People agitated for Robbie to leave and got their wish. He got fed up and left at first opportunity that came his way, trying to tell himself that it was the right move at the right time...Well it was the right time as far as he was concerned. Not so good for us, but I don't blame him... We then got a new young, ambitious Head Coach. Everyone got on board and the support was finally united - for all of 1 game. Now all I see is people directing their ire towards the new coach. They cannot look past the responsibility lying with the Head Coach and want his head. Why? We can all see that the players are clearly not doing what the manager is saying he wants them to do - it couldn't be more obvious. Why? To go back to being what we've always been - underachievers with a reputation for fielding big teams of hoofballers. Let's get a big physical number 9! Let's get Tommy fecking Wright! Let's get 1970s and 80s tactics and style of manager because this new fangled style of football where you play the ball on the deck hasn't bedded immediately... Are Hearts a big club? No we are not! People have expectations of winning the majority of games yet our silverware haul is 3 cups in 50+ years. The 2 do not marry up. We are only a big club in Edinburgh ie not even in Scottish terms! People say that Cathro is rubbish because football is a results game. Well in that case Hearts are rubbish! Our silverware record for a big club in this small pond is embarrassing - Newcastle and Spurs fans should laugh at us... Changing a style of football is not easy. I know nothing about being a professional footballer. For years I've sat watching players in warm up "controlling" a ball by knocking it 3 yards to their left of right. It's not what I regard as close control, nor instant control...I've come to the conclusion that the sort of control you see from Messi in a game is not the sort that lesser players can do, so they are perhaps coached to direct/deflect the ball rather than cushion it and kill it's momentum? Thinking about it Messi doesn't kill the momentum of the ball either, he is just not 3 yards behind the ball after his first touch! However, there is no reason why, with the correct personnel Hearts cannot develop a possession game. Tynecastle is a small pitch but I've watched the OF, particularly Celtic, knocking the ball left to right and back along our 18 yard line whilst we stood off them or chased shadows. That is how better players tire out fit, but not so good players. It is not exclusive to Barcelona. It is just professional football as far as I can see. Why have we only had 5 good strikers in the last 20 years? Macphee has identified it as per above. Precisely because there is a large element of our support who just want to watch professionals play kids football. They want blood and thunder - "Get the ball up the effing park!" then "FFS get it in the box Hertz". Unsophisticated football minds who would not dream of attending a tactical Q&A session with the manager but will sit here on a thread debating the output as if their opinion counts for more than the Club's management's. They see what Levein and Cathro and Macphee cannot! Sorry, but that's balls. Watching football doesn't make someone an expert on football. I've been doing it for 40 years but I would not dream of telling 30-year old Ian Cathro how to do his job! All I can do is try to interpret what he is trying to do. I will nail my colours to the mast. Being an Hearts supporter is the weirdest thing - we had terrible teams in the 70s and won nothing, We had good teams in the 80s and won nothing. The reason the OF won stuff is that they control games. Yes, they can get a bit of help sometimes from officials, but OUR style of football ALWAYS gave the officials the opportunity to gift them late penalties etc. Our style of football DID NOT WORK for us. We simply have to move on, evolve on the park. Off the park, the Hearts fans need to give the management a chance, give the players support even when they mess up. What I perceive Cathro to be trying to do is not easy, and he's made mistakes but calling him an "experiment" and saying he has failed is frankly stupid. Currently his methods are not working, but let's give the guy a chance to turn it round. I have no problem with us training coaches on the job, we've got nothing to lose. We are only glorious in our own dreams. If they get it right then we could get something special, If not, then we can all go back to employing Tommy Wrights and get enthused about him signing tryers like Neil Macfarlane, Jamie MacAllister, John Millar etc and having motivated teams who come unstuck 99% of the time when it matters...Let's not be in such a hurry to revert to the same old "nearly men" ways... The mods should delete most of the pathetic vitriolic crap on this forum and replace it with this post which speak sense and realism. Far to many fans think they are owed some false sense of status just by virtue of it being Hearts. Its a damming indictment of todays football culture that fans demand instant gratification and success otherwise the alternative is not just being sacked, its having your name and reputation slandered and dragged through the mud. I'm no great fan of Cathro, but while he is here and trying then I'll give him what support I can, or at worst, not boo his efforts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 I'll let other folk be the judge of that, Morgs. That would make interesting reading for sure. Anyway, I didn't come on here this afternoon to have a discussion with your good self. I came on to say 'sorry' for some of my over the top comments to another poster. I have done that and hope he reads it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Religion Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 Superb post. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Agreed, excellent measured post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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