Meet the Management event

May 9, 2017

Oh boy is this thread a depressing read.

I've come to the conclusion that there are some Hearts fans who do not deserve to follow a good team. Some of our support is just toxic... Over the years I've wondered why it always seemed to be Hearts fans who did embarrassing stuff like throwing bananas at Mark Walters, booing dead Popes, Physically attacking an opposition manager in our own stadium; paying for planes to fly over Tynecastle. All excruciating stuff that has happened during my time as an Hearts fan...

People agitated for Robbie to leave and got their wish. He got fed up and left at first opportunity that came his way, trying to tell himself that it was the right move at the right time...Well it was the right time as far as he was concerned. Not so good for us, but I don't blame him...

We then got a new young, ambitious Head Coach. Everyone got on board and the support was finally united - for all of 1 game.

Now all I see is people directing their ire towards the new coach. They cannot look past the responsibility lying with the Head Coach and want his head. Why? We can all see that the players are clearly not doing what the manager is saying he wants them to do - it couldn't be more obvious. Why? To go back to being what we've always been - underachievers with a reputation for fielding big teams of hoofballers. Let's get a big physical number 9! Let's get Tommy fecking Wright! Let's get 1970s and 80s tactics and style of manager because this new fangled style of football where you play the ball on the deck hasn't bedded immediately...

Are Hearts a big club? No we are not!

People have expectations of winning the majority of games yet our silverware haul is 3 cups in 50+ years. The 2 do not marry up. We are only a big club in Edinburgh ie not even in Scottish terms! People say that Cathro is rubbish because football is a results game. Well in that case Hearts are rubbish! Our silverware record for a big club in this small pond is embarrassing - Newcastle and Spurs fans should laugh at us...

Changing a style of football is not easy. I know nothing about being a professional footballer. For years I've sat watching players in warm up "controlling" a ball by knocking it 3 yards to their left of right. It's not what I regard as close control, nor instant control...I've come to the conclusion that the sort of control you see from Messi in a game is not the sort that lesser players can do, so they are perhaps coached to direct/deflect the ball rather than cushion it and kill it's momentum? Thinking about it Messi doesn't kill the momentum of the ball either, he is just not 3 yards behind the ball after his first touch! However, there is no reason why, with the correct personnel Hearts cannot develop a possession game. Tynecastle is a small pitch but I've watched the OF, particularly Celtic, knocking the ball left to right and back along our 18 yard line whilst we stood off them or chased shadows. That is how better players tire out fit, but not so good players. It is not exclusive to Barcelona. It is just professional football as far as I can see.

Why have we only had 5 good strikers in the last 20 years? Macphee has identified it as per above. Precisely because there is a large element of our support who just want to watch professionals play kids football. They want blood and thunder - "Get the ball up the effing park!" then "FFS get it in the box Hertz". Unsophisticated football minds who would not dream of attending a tactical Q&A session with the manager but will sit here on a thread debating the output as if their opinion counts for more than the Club's management's. They see what Levein and Cathro and Macphee cannot! Sorry, but that's balls. Watching football doesn't make someone an expert on football. I've been doing it for 40 years but I would not dream of telling 30-year old Ian Cathro how to do his job! All I can do is try to interpret what he is trying to do.

I will nail my colours to the mast. Being an Hearts supporter is the weirdest thing - we had terrible teams in the 70s and won nothing, We had good teams in the 80s and won nothing. The reason the OF won stuff is that they control games. Yes, they can get a bit of help sometimes from officials, but OUR style of football ALWAYS gave the officials the opportunity to gift them late penalties etc. Our style of football DID NOT WORK for us. We simply have to move on, evolve on the park. Off the park, the Hearts fans need to give the management a chance, give the players support even when they mess up. What I perceive Cathro to be trying to do is not easy, and he's made mistakes but calling him an "experiment" and saying he has failed is frankly stupid. Currently his methods are not working, but let's give the guy a chance to turn it round. I have no problem with us training coaches on the job, we've got nothing to lose. We are only glorious in our own dreams. If they get it right then we could get something special, If not, then we can all go back to employing Tommy Wrights and get enthused about him signing tryers like Neil Macfarlane, Jamie MacAllister, John Millar etc and having motivated teams who come unstuck 99% of the time when it matters...Let's not be in such a hurry to revert to the same old "nearly men" ways...

I loved watching the team in the 80s.

Won nothing but were a prominent team at a time when easily 4,5 Scottish teams could be deemed decent quality and competing at a high level in Europe.

The current team is nowhere near, absolutely nowhere near the collective ability or desire of that team back then.

I suppose Alex MacDonald was a hoofball merchant in your eyes given the midgets of JR, JC and Crabbe populated his teams.

Honestly, the "modern" fan are so up their arse. If the current strategy gets us near even challenging for a league title I'll tip my hat.

Besotted with possession when we have players that can't do the key elements properly. Give me the cut and thrust of the 86, 98 and 06 teams any day. Players who could beat men, drive at defences from midfield and ultimately burst the net.

Defenders who could, well, defend too

And possession? You learn how to keep the ball at 8 years old playing for the school team.

May 9, 2017

Oh boy is this thread a depressing read.

I've come to the conclusion that there are some Hearts fans who do not deserve to follow a good team. Some of our support is just toxic... Over the years I've wondered why it always seemed to be Hearts fans who did embarrassing stuff like throwing bananas at Mark Walters, booing dead Popes, Physically attacking an opposition manager in our own stadium; paying for planes to fly over Tynecastle. All excruciating stuff that has happened during my time as an Hearts fan...

People agitated for Robbie to leave and got their wish. He got fed up and left at first opportunity that came his way, trying to tell himself that it was the right move at the right time...Well it was the right time as far as he was concerned. Not so good for us, but I don't blame him...

We then got a new young, ambitious Head Coach. Everyone got on board and the support was finally united - for all of 1 game.

Now all I see is people directing their ire towards the new coach. They cannot look past the responsibility lying with the Head Coach and want his head. Why? We can all see that the players are clearly not doing what the manager is saying he wants them to do - it couldn't be more obvious. Why? To go back to being what we've always been - underachievers with a reputation for fielding big teams of hoofballers. Let's get a big physical number 9! Let's get Tommy fecking Wright! Let's get 1970s and 80s tactics and style of manager because this new fangled style of football where you play the ball on the deck hasn't bedded immediately...

Are Hearts a big club? No we are not!

People have expectations of winning the majority of games yet our silverware haul is 3 cups in 50+ years. The 2 do not marry up. We are only a big club in Edinburgh ie not even in Scottish terms! People say that Cathro is rubbish because football is a results game. Well in that case Hearts are rubbish! Our silverware record for a big club in this small pond is embarrassing - Newcastle and Spurs fans should laugh at us...

Changing a style of football is not easy. I know nothing about being a professional footballer. For years I've sat watching players in warm up "controlling" a ball by knocking it 3 yards to their left of right. It's not what I regard as close control, nor instant control...I've come to the conclusion that the sort of control you see from Messi in a game is not the sort that lesser players can do, so they are perhaps coached to direct/deflect the ball rather than cushion it and kill it's momentum? Thinking about it Messi doesn't kill the momentum of the ball either, he is just not 3 yards behind the ball after his first touch! However, there is no reason why, with the correct personnel Hearts cannot develop a possession game. Tynecastle is a small pitch but I've watched the OF, particularly Celtic, knocking the ball left to right and back along our 18 yard line whilst we stood off them or chased shadows. That is how better players tire out fit, but not so good players. It is not exclusive to Barcelona. It is just professional football as far as I can see.

Why have we only had 5 good strikers in the last 20 years? Macphee has identified it as per above. Precisely because there is a large element of our support who just want to watch professionals play kids football. They want blood and thunder - "Get the ball up the effing park!" then "FFS get it in the box Hertz". Unsophisticated football minds who would not dream of attending a tactical Q&A session with the manager but will sit here on a thread debating the output as if their opinion counts for more than the Club's management's. They see what Levein and Cathro and Macphee cannot! Sorry, but that's balls. Watching football doesn't make someone an expert on football. I've been doing it for 40 years but I would not dream of telling 30-year old Ian Cathro how to do his job! All I can do is try to interpret what he is trying to do.

I will nail my colours to the mast. Being an Hearts supporter is the weirdest thing - we had terrible teams in the 70s and won nothing, We had good teams in the 80s and won nothing. The reason the OF won stuff is that they control games. Yes, they can get a bit of help sometimes from officials, but OUR style of football ALWAYS gave the officials the opportunity to gift them late penalties etc. Our style of football DID NOT WORK for us. We simply have to move on, evolve on the park. Off the park, the Hearts fans need to give the management a chance, give the players support even when they mess up. What I perceive Cathro to be trying to do is not easy, and he's made mistakes but calling him an "experiment" and saying he has failed is frankly stupid. Currently his methods are not working, but let's give the guy a chance to turn it round. I have no problem with us training coaches on the job, we've got nothing to lose. We are only glorious in our own dreams. If they get it right then we could get something special, If not, then we can all go back to employing Tommy Wrights and get enthused about him signing tryers like Neil Macfarlane, Jamie MacAllister, John Millar etc and having motivated teams who come unstuck 99% of the time when it matters...Let's not be in such a hurry to revert to the same old "nearly men" ways...

Luckily for you and me Levein is stubborn enough to see this through.

The only gripe I have with the club is that they are committed to young coaches. Its ageist and prohibitive. And the only reason it is that way is because Craig wants his role to be as is. He needs to be needed.

But as I say, maybe we need someone with his hide to see this through the pain.

May 9, 2017

MacPhee from reports sounds like a bit of a jerk. The fans pay their money and should be welcome to make comments, not convinced about him or Cathro

May 9, 2017

Oh boy is this thread a depressing read.

I've come to the conclusion that there are some Hearts fans who do not deserve to follow a good team. Some of our support is just toxic... Over the years I've wondered why it always seemed to be Hearts fans who did embarrassing stuff like throwing bananas at Mark Walters, booing dead Popes, Physically attacking an opposition manager in our own stadium; paying for planes to fly over Tynecastle. All excruciating stuff that has happened during my time as an Hearts fan...

People agitated for Robbie to leave and got their wish. He got fed up and left at first opportunity that came his way, trying to tell himself that it was the right move at the right time...Well it was the right time as far as he was concerned. Not so good for us, but I don't blame him...

We then got a new young, ambitious Head Coach. Everyone got on board and the support was finally united - for all of 1 game.

Now all I see is people directing their ire towards the new coach. They cannot look past the responsibility lying with the Head Coach and want his head. Why? We can all see that the players are clearly not doing what the manager is saying he wants them to do - it couldn't be more obvious. Why? To go back to being what we've always been - underachievers with a reputation for fielding big teams of hoofballers. Let's get a big physical number 9! Let's get Tommy fecking Wright! Let's get 1970s and 80s tactics and style of manager because this new fangled style of football where you play the ball on the deck hasn't bedded immediately...

Are Hearts a big club? No we are not!

People have expectations of winning the majority of games yet our silverware haul is 3 cups in 50+ years. The 2 do not marry up. We are only a big club in Edinburgh ie not even in Scottish terms! People say that Cathro is rubbish because football is a results game. Well in that case Hearts are rubbish! Our silverware record for a big club in this small pond is embarrassing - Newcastle and Spurs fans should laugh at us...

Changing a style of football is not easy. I know nothing about being a professional footballer. For years I've sat watching players in warm up "controlling" a ball by knocking it 3 yards to their left of right. It's not what I regard as close control, nor instant control...I've come to the conclusion that the sort of control you see from Messi in a game is not the sort that lesser players can do, so they are perhaps coached to direct/deflect the ball rather than cushion it and kill it's momentum? Thinking about it Messi doesn't kill the momentum of the ball either, he is just not 3 yards behind the ball after his first touch! However, there is no reason why, with the correct personnel Hearts cannot develop a possession game. Tynecastle is a small pitch but I've watched the OF, particularly Celtic, knocking the ball left to right and back along our 18 yard line whilst we stood off them or chased shadows. That is how better players tire out fit, but not so good players. It is not exclusive to Barcelona. It is just professional football as far as I can see.

Why have we only had 5 good strikers in the last 20 years? Macphee has identified it as per above. Precisely because there is a large element of our support who just want to watch professionals play kids football. They want blood and thunder - "Get the ball up the effing park!" then "FFS get it in the box Hertz". Unsophisticated football minds who would not dream of attending a tactical Q&A session with the manager but will sit here on a thread debating the output as if their opinion counts for more than the Club's management's. They see what Levein and Cathro and Macphee cannot! Sorry, but that's balls. Watching football doesn't make someone an expert on football. I've been doing it for 40 years but I would not dream of telling 30-year old Ian Cathro how to do his job! All I can do is try to interpret what he is trying to do.

I will nail my colours to the mast. Being an Hearts supporter is the weirdest thing - we had terrible teams in the 70s and won nothing, We had good teams in the 80s and won nothing. The reason the OF won stuff is that they control games. Yes, they can get a bit of help sometimes from officials, but OUR style of football ALWAYS gave the officials the opportunity to gift them late penalties etc. Our style of football DID NOT WORK for us. We simply have to move on, evolve on the park. Off the park, the Hearts fans need to give the management a chance, give the players support even when they mess up. What I perceive Cathro to be trying to do is not easy, and he's made mistakes but calling him an "experiment" and saying he has failed is frankly stupid. Currently his methods are not working, but let's give the guy a chance to turn it round. I have no problem with us training coaches on the job, we've got nothing to lose. We are only glorious in our own dreams. If they get it right then we could get something special, If not, then we can all go back to employing Tommy Wrights and get enthused about him signing tryers like Neil Macfarlane, Jamie MacAllister, John Millar etc and having motivated teams who come unstuck 99% of the time when it matters...Let's not be in such a hurry to revert to the same old "nearly men" ways...

I'm sorry but this is the kind of post that just grates upon the majority who think otherwise. And I'm not taking about the length of it either.

Cathro has had his chance and all the presentations in the world will not charge his abysmal real world record. 5 wins in 23 make him the worst manager in history and I remember the late 70s.

Whether you like it or not, it is posters like yourself who allow our DOF to stick two fingers up to the support and keep the incompetent and uncharismatic Cathro in place and know there will always be some people backing him.

Supporters must never again be forced to accept 2nd best or mediocrity and I for one can't wait until fan ownership, so we are never again dictated to. If you fail your objectives as a manager you should be moved on and Cathro had certainly failed his.

May 9, 2017

MacPhee from reports sounds like a bit of a jerk. The fans pay their money and should be welcome to make comments, not convinced about him or Cathro

What reports? What comments?

May 9, 2017

MacPhee from reports sounds like a bit of a jerk. The fans pay their money and should be welcome to make comments, not convinced about him or Cathro

Who reported this?

Were folk stopped from making comments?

May 9, 2017

Ok. Here's where I'm going to sit with the Cathro debate. He's talked the talk for long enough. So I'll see what the summer brings and the first round of games most telling will be the derby. If there's no improvement then my dummy's getting spat and I'll let someone else use my season ticket for fear of my own health until they replace him.

Show me what you can do Ian....

May 9, 2017

Oh boy is this thread a depressing read.

I've come to the conclusion that there are some Hearts fans who do not deserve to follow a good team. Some of our support is just toxic... Over the years I've wondered why it always seemed to be Hearts fans who did embarrassing stuff like throwing bananas at Mark Walters, booing dead Popes, Physically attacking an opposition manager in our own stadium; paying for planes to fly over Tynecastle. All excruciating stuff that has happened during my time as an Hearts fan...

People agitated for Robbie to leave and got their wish. He got fed up and left at first opportunity that came his way, trying to tell himself that it was the right move at the right time...Well it was the right time as far as he was concerned. Not so good for us, but I don't blame him...

We then got a new young, ambitious Head Coach. Everyone got on board and the support was finally united - for all of 1 game.

Now all I see is people directing their ire towards the new coach. They cannot look past the responsibility lying with the Head Coach and want his head. Why? We can all see that the players are clearly not doing what the manager is saying he wants them to do - it couldn't be more obvious. Why? To go back to being what we've always been - underachievers with a reputation for fielding big teams of hoofballers. Let's get a big physical number 9! Let's get Tommy fecking Wright! Let's get 1970s and 80s tactics and style of manager because this new fangled style of football where you play the ball on the deck hasn't bedded immediately...

Are Hearts a big club? No we are not!

People have expectations of winning the majority of games yet our silverware haul is 3 cups in 50+ years. The 2 do not marry up. We are only a big club in Edinburgh ie not even in Scottish terms! People say that Cathro is rubbish because football is a results game. Well in that case Hearts are rubbish! Our silverware record for a big club in this small pond is embarrassing - Newcastle and Spurs fans should laugh at us...

Changing a style of football is not easy. I know nothing about being a professional footballer. For years I've sat watching players in warm up "controlling" a ball by knocking it 3 yards to their left of right. It's not what I regard as close control, nor instant control...I've come to the conclusion that the sort of control you see from Messi in a game is not the sort that lesser players can do, so they are perhaps coached to direct/deflect the ball rather than cushion it and kill it's momentum? Thinking about it Messi doesn't kill the momentum of the ball either, he is just not 3 yards behind the ball after his first touch! However, there is no reason why, with the correct personnel Hearts cannot develop a possession game. Tynecastle is a small pitch but I've watched the OF, particularly Celtic, knocking the ball left to right and back along our 18 yard line whilst we stood off them or chased shadows. That is how better players tire out fit, but not so good players. It is not exclusive to Barcelona. It is just professional football as far as I can see.

Why have we only had 5 good strikers in the last 20 years? Macphee has identified it as per above. Precisely because there is a large element of our support who just want to watch professionals play kids football. They want blood and thunder - "Get the ball up the effing park!" then "FFS get it in the box Hertz". Unsophisticated football minds who would not dream of attending a tactical Q&A session with the manager but will sit here on a thread debating the output as if their opinion counts for more than the Club's management's. They see what Levein and Cathro and Macphee cannot! Sorry, but that's balls. Watching football doesn't make someone an expert on football. I've been doing it for 40 years but I would not dream of telling 30-year old Ian Cathro how to do his job! All I can do is try to interpret what he is trying to do.

I will nail my colours to the mast. Being an Hearts supporter is the weirdest thing - we had terrible teams in the 70s and won nothing, We had good teams in the 80s and won nothing. The reason the OF won stuff is that they control games. Yes, they can get a bit of help sometimes from officials, but OUR style of football ALWAYS gave the officials the opportunity to gift them late penalties etc. Our style of football DID NOT WORK for us. We simply have to move on, evolve on the park. Off the park, the Hearts fans need to give the management a chance, give the players support even when they mess up. What I perceive Cathro to be trying to do is not easy, and he's made mistakes but calling him an "experiment" and saying he has failed is frankly stupid. Currently his methods are not working, but let's give the guy a chance to turn it round. I have no problem with us training coaches on the job, we've got nothing to lose. We are only glorious in our own dreams. If they get it right then we could get something special, If not, then we can all go back to employing Tommy Wrights and get enthused about him signing tryers like Neil Macfarlane, Jamie MacAllister, John Millar etc and having motivated teams who come unstuck 99% of the time when it matters...Let's not be in such a hurry to revert to the same old "nearly men" ways...

That's an excellent post, Spellczech.

May 9, 2017

Oh boy is this thread a depressing read.

I've come to the conclusion that there are some Hearts fans who do not deserve to follow a good team. Some of our support is just toxic... Over the years I've wondered why it always seemed to be Hearts fans who did embarrassing stuff like throwing bananas at Mark Walters, booing dead Popes, Physically attacking an opposition manager in our own stadium; paying for planes to fly over Tynecastle. All excruciating stuff that has happened during my time as an Hearts fan...

People agitated for Robbie to leave and got their wish. He got fed up and left at first opportunity that came his way, trying to tell himself that it was the right move at the right time...Well it was the right time as far as he was concerned. Not so good for us, but I don't blame him...

We then got a new young, ambitious Head Coach. Everyone got on board and the support was finally united - for all of 1 game.

Now all I see is people directing their ire towards the new coach. They cannot look past the responsibility lying with the Head Coach and want his head. Why? We can all see that the players are clearly not doing what the manager is saying he wants them to do - it couldn't be more obvious. Why? To go back to being what we've always been - underachievers with a reputation for fielding big teams of hoofballers. Let's get a big physical number 9! Let's get Tommy fecking Wright! Let's get 1970s and 80s tactics and style of manager because this new fangled style of football where you play the ball on the deck hasn't bedded immediately...

Are Hearts a big club? No we are not!

People have expectations of winning the majority of games yet our silverware haul is 3 cups in 50+ years. The 2 do not marry up. We are only a big club in Edinburgh ie not even in Scottish terms! People say that Cathro is rubbish because football is a results game. Well in that case Hearts are rubbish! Our silverware record for a big club in this small pond is embarrassing - Newcastle and Spurs fans should laugh at us...

Changing a style of football is not easy. I know nothing about being a professional footballer. For years I've sat watching players in warm up "controlling" a ball by knocking it 3 yards to their left of right. It's not what I regard as close control, nor instant control...I've come to the conclusion that the sort of control you see from Messi in a game is not the sort that lesser players can do, so they are perhaps coached to direct/deflect the ball rather than cushion it and kill it's momentum? Thinking about it Messi doesn't kill the momentum of the ball either, he is just not 3 yards behind the ball after his first touch! However, there is no reason why, with the correct personnel Hearts cannot develop a possession game. Tynecastle is a small pitch but I've watched the OF, particularly Celtic, knocking the ball left to right and back along our 18 yard line whilst we stood off them or chased shadows. That is how better players tire out fit, but not so good players. It is not exclusive to Barcelona. It is just professional football as far as I can see.

Why have we only had 5 good strikers in the last 20 years? Macphee has identified it as per above. Precisely because there is a large element of our support who just want to watch professionals play kids football. They want blood and thunder - "Get the ball up the effing park!" then "FFS get it in the box Hertz". Unsophisticated football minds who would not dream of attending a tactical Q&A session with the manager but will sit here on a thread debating the output as if their opinion counts for more than the Club's management's. They see what Levein and Cathro and Macphee cannot! Sorry, but that's balls. Watching football doesn't make someone an expert on football. I've been doing it for 40 years but I would not dream of telling 30-year old Ian Cathro how to do his job! All I can do is try to interpret what he is trying to do.

I will nail my colours to the mast. Being an Hearts supporter is the weirdest thing - we had terrible teams in the 70s and won nothing, We had good teams in the 80s and won nothing. The reason the OF won stuff is that they control games. Yes, they can get a bit of help sometimes from officials, but OUR style of football ALWAYS gave the officials the opportunity to gift them late penalties etc. Our style of football DID NOT WORK for us. We simply have to move on, evolve on the park. Off the park, the Hearts fans need to give the management a chance, give the players support even when they mess up. What I perceive Cathro to be trying to do is not easy, and he's made mistakes but calling him an "experiment" and saying he has failed is frankly stupid. Currently his methods are not working, but let's give the guy a chance to turn it round. I have no problem with us training coaches on the job, we've got nothing to lose. We are only glorious in our own dreams. If they get it right then we could get something special, If not, then we can all go back to employing Tommy Wrights and get enthused about him signing tryers like Neil Macfarlane, Jamie MacAllister, John Millar etc and having motivated teams who come unstuck 99% of the time when it matters...Let's not be in such a hurry to revert to the same old "nearly men" ways...

A well thought out post.

But I don't like the insinuation that wanting Cathro to leave is on a par with sectarianism, racism or violence. I also want us to be a better team but I 99% doubt Cathro has the ability to transpose his ideas (that seem pretty much like every other coach, by the way) onto a team with our budget.

May 9, 2017

What reports? What comments?

just the crowd can break a striker, they should toughen him up then. And we shouldn't want hoofball, what's wrong with hoofball. Would beat the football at the moment, thinking they know best is arrogance more than confidence

May 9, 2017

just the crowd can break a striker, they should toughen him up then. And we shouldn't want hoofball, what's wrong with hoofball. Would beat the football at the moment, thinking they know best is arrogance more than confidence

I'm sure it was all contextual. Perhaps best not berating the guy if you weren't there.

May 9, 2017

just the crowd can break a striker, they should toughen him up then. And we shouldn't want hoofball, what's wrong with hoofball. Would beat the football at the moment, thinking they know best is arrogance more than confidence

Read the Scotsman article I pasted above.

The quote:

?A Tynecastle crowd can finish a striker. That person needs to be a robust, confident boy.?

May 9, 2017

I'm sorry but this is the kind of post that just grates upon the majority who think otherwise. And I'm not taking about the length of it either.

Cathro has had his chance and all the presentations in the world will not charge his abysmal real world record. 5 wins in 23 make him the worst manager in history and I remember the late 70s.

Whether you like it or not, it is posters like yourself who allow our DOF to stick two fingers up to the support and keep the incompetent and uncharismatic Cathro in place and know there will always be some people backing him.

Supporters must never again be forced to accept 2nd best or mediocrity and I for one can't wait until fan ownership, so we are never again dictated to. If you fail your objectives as a manager you should be moved on and Cathro had certainly failed his.

His chance is to have 6 months, no pre season and no summer window.

Which is why Spellczechs post was superb.

May 9, 2017

Ok. Here's where I'm going to sit with the Cathro debate. He's talked the talk for long enough. So I'll see what the summer brings and the first round of games most telling will be the derby. If there's no improvement then my dummy's getting spat and I'll let someone else use my season ticket for fear of my own health until they replace him.

Show me what you can do Ian....

I think that's a reasonable place to be. Cathro was heralded as some sort of messiah (though never by himself); turns out he isn't a messiah, he's just a very naughty boy. Reading between the lines of what we've heard from last night, I actually sense an awful lot of criticism of things that the DoF is responsible for. I'm not a Levein basher, and God knows we have more than enough of those around who will tell you so in every single post they make, but the failings appear to be in recruitment - not just the players we've recruited, but the lack of contingency for the inevitability that injuries happen.

Major improvement needs to be demonstrated early on in the new campaign.

May 9, 2017

Is John Murray still getting nudged out the door?

May 9, 2017

I loved watching the team in the 80s.

Won nothing but were a prominent team at a time when easily 4,5 Scottish teams could be deemed decent quality and competing at a high level in Europe.

The current team is nowhere near, absolutely nowhere near the collective ability or desire of that team back then.

I suppose Alex MacDonald was a hoofball merchant in your eyes given the midgets of JR, JC and Crabbe populated his teams.

Honestly, the "modern" fan are so up their arse. If the current strategy gets us near even challenging for a league title I'll tip my hat.

Besotted with possession when we have players that can't do the key elements properly. Give me the cut and thrust of the 86, 98 and 06 teams any day. Players who could beat men, drive at defences from midfield and ultimately burst the net.

Defenders who could, well, defend too

And possession? You learn how to keep the ball at 8 years old playing for the school team.

I agree with you. I won't use the superb post guff just because I agree though! Celtic and rangers win the league because of the better players they employ Celtic have pulled further away because they have an experienced manager of proven quality. There isn't a new system unique to Cathro that will narrow the gap and talk of "if he gets the type of player he was used to at bigger clubs" is frankly rhubarb as we won't come near to affording them plus he wasn't managing them either. Aberdeen remain a realistic level to aim at for the meantime (even St johnstone with their apparently farmer giles support and manager are a club we are chasing). In the meantime I will support the club, hope for the best but really just hope not for things to get any worse.

May 9, 2017

I'm sure it was all contextual. Perhaps best not berating the guy if you weren't there.

don't like either to be honest but hopefully they come good. I guess you don't have to be a nice guy or guys to do well in football, plenty of examples of that

May 9, 2017

I agree with you. I won't use the superb post guff just because I agree though! Celtic and rangers win the league because of the better players they employ Celtic have pulled further away because they have an experienced manager of proven quality. There isn't a new system unique to Cathro that will narrow the gap and talk of "if he gets the type of player he was used to at bigger clubs" is frankly rhubarb as we won't come near to affording them plus he wasn't managing them either. Aberdeen remain a realistic level to aim at for the meantime (even St johnstone with their apparently farmer giles support and manager are a club we are chasing). In the meantime I will support the club, hope for the best but really just hope not for things to get any worse.

Superb post :2thumbsup: :bandana:

May 9, 2017

MacPhee from reports sounds like a bit of a jerk. The fans pay their money and should be welcome to make comments, not convinced about him or Cathro

Well that's nonsense.

May 9, 2017

Been having a skim through a lot of the posts about last night it sounded like quite a good night wish I had gone to listen to the management talk.

I may have missed this covered as I did say I skimmed through the thread but did Cathro or McPhee touch on what sort of turnover of personnel will happen in the summer? How many outs? Ins? And did Cathro or even Jon Daly say about any 20s being promoted to the first team?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

May 9, 2017

MacPhee from reports sounds like a bit of a jerk. The fans pay their money and should be welcome to make comments, not convinced about him or Cathro

Virtually every individual I've seen on social media said he actually came across better than Cathro. However, they did say there's no doubt Cathro's an intelligent bloke.

May 9, 2017

Spellczech

That was JKB porn as far as I am concerned.

May 9, 2017

I loved watching the team in the 80s.

Won nothing but were a prominent team at a time when easily 4,5 Scottish teams could be deemed decent quality and competing at a high level in Europe.

The current team is nowhere near, absolutely nowhere near the collective ability or desire of that team back then.

I suppose Alex MacDonald was a hoofball merchant in your eyes given the midgets of JR, JC and Crabbe populated his teams.

Honestly, the "modern" fan are so up their arse. If the current strategy gets us near even challenging for a league title I'll tip my hat.

Besotted with possession when we have players that can't do the key elements properly. Give me the cut and thrust of the 86, 98 and 06 teams any day. Players who could beat men, drive at defences from midfield and ultimately burst the net.

Defenders who could, well, defend too

And possession? You learn how to keep the ball at 8 years old playing for the school team.

Modern fan? I'm 42. I loved the teams of the 80s more than any other Hearts teams - but I suffered with them and because of them too...We also had Jimmy Bone and Sandy Clark. 3 small front men was our style for only a couple of years of that decade.

You can try to pick apart bits of my post if you like. The simple truth is that we we won the Cup in '98 even though we almost let it slip...We were so under the cosh in the last few minutes that we couldn't even bring Robbo on for a swansong which was heart-breaking in itself. It was the one time we survived sitting deep and inviting Rangers onto us.

2006 we didn't play very well and invited Gretna to control the game. With 10 men we got it to penalties, thankfully.

2012 was the only one of the 3 that we won comfortably. We had total control.

Nobody is pretending that all is rosy at the moment, but if you remove the rose-tinted glasses you have for yesteryear, you may just recognize that we were actually quite fortunate to win 2 of the paltry 3 pieces of silverware we have won in the last >50 years, precisely because we were not able to do the things Cathro talks of - control, possession, hustle...

Nobody is denying that we are failing to implement what Cathro is talking about, but is that really reason to just give up and stop trying?

May 9, 2017

You don't like your arse being handed to you, do you?

Never by you son. Never by you.

May 9, 2017

A well thought out post.

But I don't like the insinuation that wanting Cathro to leave is on a par with sectarianism, racism or violence. I also want us to be a better team but I 99% doubt Cathro has the ability to transpose his ideas (that seem pretty much like every other coach, by the way) onto a team with our budget.

I wasn't insinuating that. You are.

May 9, 2017

Oh boy is this thread a depressing read.

I've come to the conclusion that there are some Hearts fans who do not deserve to follow a good team. Some of our support is just toxic... Over the years I've wondered why it always seemed to be Hearts fans who did embarrassing stuff like throwing bananas at Mark Walters, booing dead Popes, Physically attacking an opposition manager in our own stadium; paying for planes to fly over Tynecastle. All excruciating stuff that has happened during my time as an Hearts fan...

People agitated for Robbie to leave and got their wish. He got fed up and left at first opportunity that came his way, trying to tell himself that it was the right move at the right time...Well it was the right time as far as he was concerned. Not so good for us, but I don't blame him...

We then got a new young, ambitious Head Coach. Everyone got on board and the support was finally united - for all of 1 game.

Now all I see is people directing their ire towards the new coach. They cannot look past the responsibility lying with the Head Coach and want his head. Why? We can all see that the players are clearly not doing what the manager is saying he wants them to do - it couldn't be more obvious. Why? To go back to being what we've always been - underachievers with a reputation for fielding big teams of hoofballers. Let's get a big physical number 9! Let's get Tommy fecking Wright! Let's get 1970s and 80s tactics and style of manager because this new fangled style of football where you play the ball on the deck hasn't bedded immediately...

Are Hearts a big club? No we are not!

People have expectations of winning the majority of games yet our silverware haul is 3 cups in 50+ years. The 2 do not marry up. We are only a big club in Edinburgh ie not even in Scottish terms! People say that Cathro is rubbish because football is a results game. Well in that case Hearts are rubbish! Our silverware record for a big club in this small pond is embarrassing - Newcastle and Spurs fans should laugh at us...

Changing a style of football is not easy. I know nothing about being a professional footballer. For years I've sat watching players in warm up "controlling" a ball by knocking it 3 yards to their left of right. It's not what I regard as close control, nor instant control...I've come to the conclusion that the sort of control you see from Messi in a game is not the sort that lesser players can do, so they are perhaps coached to direct/deflect the ball rather than cushion it and kill it's momentum? Thinking about it Messi doesn't kill the momentum of the ball either, he is just not 3 yards behind the ball after his first touch! However, there is no reason why, with the correct personnel Hearts cannot develop a possession game. Tynecastle is a small pitch but I've watched the OF, particularly Celtic, knocking the ball left to right and back along our 18 yard line whilst we stood off them or chased shadows. That is how better players tire out fit, but not so good players. It is not exclusive to Barcelona. It is just professional football as far as I can see.

Why have we only had 5 good strikers in the last 20 years? Macphee has identified it as per above. Precisely because there is a large element of our support who just want to watch professionals play kids football. They want blood and thunder - "Get the ball up the effing park!" then "FFS get it in the box Hertz". Unsophisticated football minds who would not dream of attending a tactical Q&A session with the manager but will sit here on a thread debating the output as if their opinion counts for more than the Club's management's. They see what Levein and Cathro and Macphee cannot! Sorry, but that's balls. Watching football doesn't make someone an expert on football. I've been doing it for 40 years but I would not dream of telling 30-year old Ian Cathro how to do his job! All I can do is try to interpret what he is trying to do.

I will nail my colours to the mast. Being an Hearts supporter is the weirdest thing - we had terrible teams in the 70s and won nothing, We had good teams in the 80s and won nothing. The reason the OF won stuff is that they control games. Yes, they can get a bit of help sometimes from officials, but OUR style of football ALWAYS gave the officials the opportunity to gift them late penalties etc. Our style of football DID NOT WORK for us. We simply have to move on, evolve on the park. Off the park, the Hearts fans need to give the management a chance, give the players support even when they mess up. What I perceive Cathro to be trying to do is not easy, and he's made mistakes but calling him an "experiment" and saying he has failed is frankly stupid. Currently his methods are not working, but let's give the guy a chance to turn it round. I have no problem with us training coaches on the job, we've got nothing to lose. We are only glorious in our own dreams. If they get it right then we could get something special, If not, then we can all go back to employing Tommy Wrights and get enthused about him signing tryers like Neil Macfarlane, Jamie MacAllister, John Millar etc and having motivated teams who come unstuck 99% of the time when it matters...Let's not be in such a hurry to revert to the same old "nearly men" ways...

A really good post and the definitive argument for keeping the management team. I disagree with you though. Polarising the argument as Wright vs Cathro/Macphee is over simplification, there are obviously other alternatives as manager.

In many ways the biggest frustration is they are clearly intelligent individuals but we see no evidence if this on the park either in team selection or tactics. If there were, excuse me for saying this, green shoots, then I would be all for giving them more time but there is absolutely zero. We are consistently appalling. Theory and the practical application of theory are two very different things and there is no sign of the players putting their ideas into practice. A constant turnover of players is not a workable plan, you need to improve the players you have and add quality when it becomes available.

May 9, 2017

I wasn't insinuating that. You are.

Fair enough, mate.

Was a good post, even though I don't entirely agree with it.

May 9, 2017

Modern fan? I'm 42. I loved the teams of the 80s more than any other Hearts teams - but I suffered with them and because of them too...We also had Jimmy Bone and Sandy Clark. 3 small front men was our style for only a couple of years of that decade.

You can try to pick apart bits of my post if you like. The simple truth is that we we won the Cup in '98 even though we almost let it slip...We were so under the cosh in the last few minutes that we couldn't even bring Robbo on for a swansong which was heart-breaking in itself. It was the one time we survived sitting deep and inviting Rangers onto us.

2006 we didn't play very well and invited Gretna to control the game. With 10 men we got it to penalties, thankfully.

2012 was the only one of the 3 that we won comfortably. We had total control.

Nobody is pretending that all is rosy at the moment, but if you remove the rose-tinted glasses you have for yesteryear, you may just recognize that we were actually quite fortunate to win 2 of the paltry 3 pieces of silverware we have won in the last >50 years, precisely because we were not able to do the things Cathro talks of - control, possession, hustle...

Nobody is denying that we are failing to implement what Cathro is talking about, but is that really reason to just give up and stop trying?

You're other post was well thought-out and a great read. I agree with nearly all of it but can't agree that Cathro is the answer. He just doesn't the personality to be a manager and is too stubborn for his own good and it has cost us a European place. I would like to stick with the young progressive formula but I fear that it will all be scrapped due to just how bad Cathro is.

May 9, 2017

Oh boy is this thread a depressing read.

I've come to the conclusion that there are some Hearts fans who do not deserve to follow a good team. Some of our support is just toxic... Over the years I've wondered why it always seemed to be Hearts fans who did embarrassing stuff like throwing bananas at Mark Walters, booing dead Popes, Physically attacking an opposition manager in our own stadium; paying for planes to fly over Tynecastle. All excruciating stuff that has happened during my time as an Hearts fan...

People agitated for Robbie to leave and got their wish. He got fed up and left at first opportunity that came his way, trying to tell himself that it was the right move at the right time...Well it was the right time as far as he was concerned. Not so good for us, but I don't blame him...

We then got a new young, ambitious Head Coach. Everyone got on board and the support was finally united - for all of 1 game.

Now all I see is people directing their ire towards the new coach. They cannot look past the responsibility lying with the Head Coach and want his head. Why? We can all see that the players are clearly not doing what the manager is saying he wants them to do - it couldn't be more obvious. Why? To go back to being what we've always been - underachievers with a reputation for fielding big teams of hoofballers. Let's get a big physical number 9! Let's get Tommy fecking Wright! Let's get 1970s and 80s tactics and style of manager because this new fangled style of football where you play the ball on the deck hasn't bedded immediately...

Are Hearts a big club? No we are not!

People have expectations of winning the majority of games yet our silverware haul is 3 cups in 50+ years. The 2 do not marry up. We are only a big club in Edinburgh ie not even in Scottish terms! People say that Cathro is rubbish because football is a results game. Well in that case Hearts are rubbish! Our silverware record for a big club in this small pond is embarrassing - Newcastle and Spurs fans should laugh at us...

Changing a style of football is not easy. I know nothing about being a professional footballer. For years I've sat watching players in warm up "controlling" a ball by knocking it 3 yards to their left of right. It's not what I regard as close control, nor instant control...I've come to the conclusion that the sort of control you see from Messi in a game is not the sort that lesser players can do, so they are perhaps coached to direct/deflect the ball rather than cushion it and kill it's momentum? Thinking about it Messi doesn't kill the momentum of the ball either, he is just not 3 yards behind the ball after his first touch! However, there is no reason why, with the correct personnel Hearts cannot develop a possession game. Tynecastle is a small pitch but I've watched the OF, particularly Celtic, knocking the ball left to right and back along our 18 yard line whilst we stood off them or chased shadows. That is how better players tire out fit, but not so good players. It is not exclusive to Barcelona. It is just professional football as far as I can see.

Why have we only had 5 good strikers in the last 20 years? Macphee has identified it as per above. Precisely because there is a large element of our support who just want to watch professionals play kids football. They want blood and thunder - "Get the ball up the effing park!" then "FFS get it in the box Hertz". Unsophisticated football minds who would not dream of attending a tactical Q&A session with the manager but will sit here on a thread debating the output as if their opinion counts for more than the Club's management's. They see what Levein and Cathro and Macphee cannot! Sorry, but that's balls. Watching football doesn't make someone an expert on football. I've been doing it for 40 years but I would not dream of telling 30-year old Ian Cathro how to do his job! All I can do is try to interpret what he is trying to do.

I will nail my colours to the mast. Being an Hearts supporter is the weirdest thing - we had terrible teams in the 70s and won nothing, We had good teams in the 80s and won nothing. The reason the OF won stuff is that they control games. Yes, they can get a bit of help sometimes from officials, but OUR style of football ALWAYS gave the officials the opportunity to gift them late penalties etc. Our style of football DID NOT WORK for us. We simply have to move on, evolve on the park. Off the park, the Hearts fans need to give the management a chance, give the players support even when they mess up. What I perceive Cathro to be trying to do is not easy, and he's made mistakes but calling him an "experiment" and saying he has failed is frankly stupid. Currently his methods are not working, but let's give the guy a chance to turn it round. I have no problem with us training coaches on the job, we've got nothing to lose. We are only glorious in our own dreams. If they get it right then we could get something special, If not, then we can all go back to employing Tommy Wrights and get enthused about him signing tryers like Neil Macfarlane, Jamie MacAllister, John Millar etc and having motivated teams who come unstuck 99% of the time when it matters...Let's not be in such a hurry to revert to the same old "nearly men" ways...

Spellczech, I don't post very often on the forum and on the rare occasion I do, it's usually as i'm so p*ssed off at the lazy negative stuff that the same faces post about Cathro, Levein or the team. Can I just say, your post is first class and pretty much sums up my experience and observation from following the Hearts since the early 80's. I'm proud of the fact that we're trying something different and accept that there will be some major turbulence on the road. As a nation, we don't handle change very well and that mindset is even more marked in the goldfish bowl that is Scottish football.

Anyway, it's appreciated when I read posters who are prepared to look at the bigger picture and understand that whilst outcomes aren't great at the moment, there is a genuine opportunity to do something special. My hope, like my past experiences with Hearts are the the tough times will make the highs (whatever they may be), all the sweeter. Here's to the journey.

May 9, 2017

Oh boy is this thread a depressing read.

I've come to the conclusion that there are some Hearts fans who do not deserve to follow a good team. Some of our support is just toxic... Over the years I've wondered why it always seemed to be Hearts fans who did embarrassing stuff like throwing bananas at Mark Walters, booing dead Popes, Physically attacking an opposition manager in our own stadium; paying for planes to fly over Tynecastle. All excruciating stuff that has happened during my time as an Hearts fan...

People agitated for Robbie to leave and got their wish. He got fed up and left at first opportunity that came his way, trying to tell himself that it was the right move at the right time...Well it was the right time as far as he was concerned. Not so good for us, but I don't blame him...

We then got a new young, ambitious Head Coach. Everyone got on board and the support was finally united - for all of 1 game.

Now all I see is people directing their ire towards the new coach. They cannot look past the responsibility lying with the Head Coach and want his head. Why? We can all see that the players are clearly not doing what the manager is saying he wants them to do - it couldn't be more obvious. Why? To go back to being what we've always been - underachievers with a reputation for fielding big teams of hoofballers. Let's get a big physical number 9! Let's get Tommy fecking Wright! Let's get 1970s and 80s tactics and style of manager because this new fangled style of football where you play the ball on the deck hasn't bedded immediately...

Are Hearts a big club? No we are not!

People have expectations of winning the majority of games yet our silverware haul is 3 cups in 50+ years. The 2 do not marry up. We are only a big club in Edinburgh ie not even in Scottish terms! People say that Cathro is rubbish because football is a results game. Well in that case Hearts are rubbish! Our silverware record for a big club in this small pond is embarrassing - Newcastle and Spurs fans should laugh at us...

Changing a style of football is not easy. I know nothing about being a professional footballer. For years I've sat watching players in warm up "controlling" a ball by knocking it 3 yards to their left of right. It's not what I regard as close control, nor instant control...I've come to the conclusion that the sort of control you see from Messi in a game is not the sort that lesser players can do, so they are perhaps coached to direct/deflect the ball rather than cushion it and kill it's momentum? Thinking about it Messi doesn't kill the momentum of the ball either, he is just not 3 yards behind the ball after his first touch! However, there is no reason why, with the correct personnel Hearts cannot develop a possession game. Tynecastle is a small pitch but I've watched the OF, particularly Celtic, knocking the ball left to right and back along our 18 yard line whilst we stood off them or chased shadows. That is how better players tire out fit, but not so good players. It is not exclusive to Barcelona. It is just professional football as far as I can see.

Why have we only had 5 good strikers in the last 20 years? Macphee has identified it as per above. Precisely because there is a large element of our support who just want to watch professionals play kids football. They want blood and thunder - "Get the ball up the effing park!" then "FFS get it in the box Hertz". Unsophisticated football minds who would not dream of attending a tactical Q&A session with the manager but will sit here on a thread debating the output as if their opinion counts for more than the Club's management's. They see what Levein and Cathro and Macphee cannot! Sorry, but that's balls. Watching football doesn't make someone an expert on football. I've been doing it for 40 years but I would not dream of telling 30-year old Ian Cathro how to do his job! All I can do is try to interpret what he is trying to do.

I will nail my colours to the mast. Being an Hearts supporter is the weirdest thing - we had terrible teams in the 70s and won nothing, We had good teams in the 80s and won nothing. The reason the OF won stuff is that they control games. Yes, they can get a bit of help sometimes from officials, but OUR style of football ALWAYS gave the officials the opportunity to gift them late penalties etc. Our style of football DID NOT WORK for us. We simply have to move on, evolve on the park. Off the park, the Hearts fans need to give the management a chance, give the players support even when they mess up. What I perceive Cathro to be trying to do is not easy, and he's made mistakes but calling him an "experiment" and saying he has failed is frankly stupid. Currently his methods are not working, but let's give the guy a chance to turn it round. I have no problem with us training coaches on the job, we've got nothing to lose. We are only glorious in our own dreams. If they get it right then we could get something special, If not, then we can all go back to employing Tommy Wrights and get enthused about him signing tryers like Neil Macfarlane, Jamie MacAllister, John Millar etc and having motivated teams who come unstuck 99% of the time when it matters...Let's not be in such a hurry to revert to the same old "nearly men" ways...

Aye, what he said.

Bit unfair on johnny Millar tho

May 9, 2017

Well done to all those who took the trouble to go last night.

May 9, 2017

Good post spellczech, I don't agree entirely but some very fair points.

I totally get what you are saying but ultimately he is being judged on results here.

Perhaps he should be given time, perhaps we should just be patient and see what the summer brings. Maybe he tried to change the philosophy of how we play too quickly and the players that have been signed haven't worked. He could have just tweaked it but that's not his style and he had to change it which has resulted in the flak he has received, a lot of it just, some of it a bit over the top.

It may all be just talk, but he has to back it up and he will have to hit the ground running in his first 5 or 6 games next season to win support back. He has had more time than 90% of managers would get, his record speaks for itself so having faith that it will turn around is a step to far into the dark for most of us.

May 9, 2017

Oh boy is this thread a depressing read.

I've come to the conclusion that there are some Hearts fans who do not deserve to follow a good team. Some of our support is just toxic... Over the years I've wondered why it always seemed to be Hearts fans who did embarrassing stuff like throwing bananas at Mark Walters, booing dead Popes, Physically attacking an opposition manager in our own stadium; paying for planes to fly over Tynecastle. All excruciating stuff that has happened during my time as an Hearts fan...

People agitated for Robbie to leave and got their wish. He got fed up and left at first opportunity that came his way, trying to tell himself that it was the right move at the right time...Well it was the right time as far as he was concerned. Not so good for us, but I don't blame him...

We then got a new young, ambitious Head Coach. Everyone got on board and the support was finally united - for all of 1 game.

Now all I see is people directing their ire towards the new coach. They cannot look past the responsibility lying with the Head Coach and want his head. Why? We can all see that the players are clearly not doing what the manager is saying he wants them to do - it couldn't be more obvious. Why? To go back to being what we've always been - underachievers with a reputation for fielding big teams of hoofballers. Let's get a big physical number 9! Let's get Tommy fecking Wright! Let's get 1970s and 80s tactics and style of manager because this new fangled style of football where you play the ball on the deck hasn't bedded immediately...

Are Hearts a big club? No we are not!

People have expectations of winning the majority of games yet our silverware haul is 3 cups in 50+ years. The 2 do not marry up. We are only a big club in Edinburgh ie not even in Scottish terms! People say that Cathro is rubbish because football is a results game. Well in that case Hearts are rubbish! Our silverware record for a big club in this small pond is embarrassing - Newcastle and Spurs fans should laugh at us...

Changing a style of football is not easy. I know nothing about being a professional footballer. For years I've sat watching players in warm up "controlling" a ball by knocking it 3 yards to their left of right. It's not what I regard as close control, nor instant control...I've come to the conclusion that the sort of control you see from Messi in a game is not the sort that lesser players can do, so they are perhaps coached to direct/deflect the ball rather than cushion it and kill it's momentum? Thinking about it Messi doesn't kill the momentum of the ball either, he is just not 3 yards behind the ball after his first touch! However, there is no reason why, with the correct personnel Hearts cannot develop a possession game. Tynecastle is a small pitch but I've watched the OF, particularly Celtic, knocking the ball left to right and back along our 18 yard line whilst we stood off them or chased shadows. That is how better players tire out fit, but not so good players. It is not exclusive to Barcelona. It is just professional football as far as I can see.

Why have we only had 5 good strikers in the last 20 years? Macphee has identified it as per above. Precisely because there is a large element of our support who just want to watch professionals play kids football. They want blood and thunder - "Get the ball up the effing park!" then "FFS get it in the box Hertz". Unsophisticated football minds who would not dream of attending a tactical Q&A session with the manager but will sit here on a thread debating the output as if their opinion counts for more than the Club's management's. They see what Levein and Cathro and Macphee cannot! Sorry, but that's balls. Watching football doesn't make someone an expert on football. I've been doing it for 40 years but I would not dream of telling 30-year old Ian Cathro how to do his job! All I can do is try to interpret what he is trying to do.

I will nail my colours to the mast. Being an Hearts supporter is the weirdest thing - we had terrible teams in the 70s and won nothing, We had good teams in the 80s and won nothing. The reason the OF won stuff is that they control games. Yes, they can get a bit of help sometimes from officials, but OUR style of football ALWAYS gave the officials the opportunity to gift them late penalties etc. Our style of football DID NOT WORK for us. We simply have to move on, evolve on the park. Off the park, the Hearts fans need to give the management a chance, give the players support even when they mess up. What I perceive Cathro to be trying to do is not easy, and he's made mistakes but calling him an "experiment" and saying he has failed is frankly stupid. Currently his methods are not working, but let's give the guy a chance to turn it round. I have no problem with us training coaches on the job, we've got nothing to lose. We are only glorious in our own dreams. If they get it right then we could get something special, If not, then we can all go back to employing Tommy Wrights and get enthused about him signing tryers like Neil Macfarlane, Jamie MacAllister, John Millar etc and having motivated teams who come unstuck 99% of the time when it matters...Let's not be in such a hurry to revert to the same old "nearly men" ways...

*standing ovation*

May 9, 2017

A really good post and the definitive argument for keeping the management team. I disagree with you though. Polarising the argument as Wright vs Cathro/Macphee is over simplification, there are obviously other alternatives as manager.

In many ways the biggest frustration is they are clearly intelligent individuals but we see no evidence if this on the park either in team selection or tactics. If there were, excuse me for saying this, green shoots, then I would be all for giving them more time but there is absolutely zero. We are consistently appalling. Theory and the practical application of theory are two very different things and there is no sign of the players putting their ideas into practice. A constant turnover of players is not a workable plan, you need to improve the players you have and add quality when it becomes available.

"NOT A BIG CLUB"???

Police estimates of over 150,000 that lined the streets from the Tron to Gorgie on that Scottish cup winning Sunday parade in 1998 when we won the cup.

FTH.

May 9, 2017

Not sure I agree that the Tynecastle crowd breaks strikers. Contrary to what many say, we have had quite a few really good strikers in my lifetime who the crowd haven't broken.

In relatively recent years we've had:

Sow

Zeefuik

Keatings (not great but not broken by the crowd either)

Kyle (hardly prolific)

Elliott (hardly prolific)

Lee Miller

Beattie

Bednar

Jankauskas

Pospicil

The guys that have been utterly honking were not broken by the crowd but by the mgmt and coaches of the team, or they were already broken when they came to us.

Sutton being the prime example. Completely misused by the club. His strength has always been getting on the end of crosses, but we had him running the channels.

Yes, the fans can be demanding, but we don't demand perfection, just heart.

May 9, 2017

So you would have sacked Sir Alex after one season at Man U. Afterall that is your MO.

Sir Alex took over in November with United in 21st place and ended the season 11th. In his first full season they finished 2nd behind Liverpool. It's not really comparable.

May 9, 2017

I'm sorry but this is the kind of post that just grates upon the majority who think otherwise. And I'm not taking about the length of it either.

Cathro has had his chance and all the presentations in the world will not charge his abysmal real world record. 5 wins in 23 make him the worst manager in history and I remember the late 70s.

Whether you like it or not, it is posters like yourself who allow our DOF to stick two fingers up to the support and keep the incompetent and uncharismatic Cathro in place and know there will always be some people backing him.

Supporters must never again be forced to accept 2nd best or mediocrity and I for one can't wait until fan ownership, so we are never again dictated to. If you fail your objectives as a manager you should be moved on and Cathro had certainly failed his.

Fortunately fan ownership will not be as you hope it to be. We simply cannot have the lunatics taking over the asylum.

It is not about accepting second best or mediocrity - that is precisely what i don't want. But there is a difference between talking of being winners and actually winning. Cathro's critics talk as if they have a winner's mentality then when you ask how they'd go about it, the best they can do is offer usTommy Wright, who is a modern day Jim Jeffries in style and approach. We've done that, it worked for us on one occasion in 1998. That approach can only take you so far - in 99% of cases when it comes to the crunch you end up being cannon fodder for the OF because you cannot control the game...

Who is to say that trying to play football will work or not but there is no refuting that possession, control and controlled aggression are the best way forward! They simply ARE. As per the Scotsman it is nothing revolutionary. Apart from last winter the pitches are better than the 70s and 80s - they are there to have football played on them! Cathro and MacPhee are talking the talk. All we need to do is start walking the walk. Give them a chance before you bring JJ out of retirement or get in Tommy freaking "I deserve a chance at Ibrox" Wright as your "Master Plan"...

I might also add that I have absolutely no problem with what Craig Levein does at Hearts. His recruitment needs improved, but I'm sure he knows that. I do not subscribe to the underhand campaign that is being waged against him on here.

May 9, 2017

Good post spellczech, I don't agree entirely but some very fair points.

I totally get what you are saying but ultimately he is being judged on results here.

Perhaps he should be given time, perhaps we should just be patient and see what the summer brings. Maybe he tried to change the philosophy of how we play too quickly and the players that have been signed haven't worked. He could have just tweaked it but that's not his style and he had to change it which has resulted in the flak he has received, a lot of it just, some of it a bit over the top.

It may all be just talk, but he has to back it up and he will have to hit the ground running in his first 5 or 6 games next season to win support back. He has had more time than 90% of managers would get, his record speaks for itself so having faith that it will turn around is a step to far into the dark for most of us.

Cannot argue with any of this. Yes, Cathro needs to deliver. So far he hasn't and some of the football that has been put in front of us has had me wishing I was blind...

He talks the talk. He needs to walk the walk.

I've questioned on here whether the management team need someone who will put a rocket up the players? That person SHOULD be Levein, but there appears to be a campaign being waged against him on here and even given some representation by the media and by the likes of Gary MacKay and Allan Preston...

All I want for the club is improvement and success. I don't honestly know if Cathro will bring it, but I do know from 40 years of us coming close and seldom crossing the line, that going for a manager like Tommy Wright can only ever get you what we already get - the occasional cup success.

May 9, 2017

So you would have sacked Sir Alex after one season at Man U. Afterall that is your MO.

This comes up from time to time and anyways needs corrected.

Alex Ferguson was already an outstanding manager and had a track record which was better than any. It also included a European trophy with a provincial club like Aberdeen. He had a presence that was always there. People could see what he was doing which is why they stuck by him.

Comparing that to the embarrassing Cathro is simply ridiculous.

May 9, 2017

Modern fan? I'm 42. I loved the teams of the 80s more than any other Hearts teams - but I suffered with them and because of them too...We also had Jimmy Bone and Sandy Clark. 3 small front men was our style for only a couple of years of that decade.

You can try to pick apart bits of my post if you like. The simple truth is that we we won the Cup in '98 even though we almost let it slip...We were so under the cosh in the last few minutes that we couldn't even bring Robbo on for a swansong which was heart-breaking in itself. It was the one time we survived sitting deep and inviting Rangers onto us.

2006 we didn't play very well and invited Gretna to control the game. With 10 men we got it to penalties, thankfully.

2012 was the only one of the 3 that we won comfortably. We had total control.

Nobody is pretending that all is rosy at the moment, but if you remove the rose-tinted glasses you have for yesteryear, you may just recognize that we were actually quite fortunate to win 2 of the paltry 3 pieces of silverware we have won in the last >50 years, precisely because we were not able to do the things Cathro talks of - control, possession, hustle...

Nobody is denying that we are failing to implement what Cathro is talking about, but is that really reason to just give up and stop trying?

96 we were unlikely to control a cup final in Glasgow against one of the old firm.

06 we were against a team we underestimated playing out their dream and nearly suffered

12 we played against fenlon's losers and did control the game.

Most fans unhappy about Cathro are not expecting to win tons of trophies under him or anyone else. Sometimes it is cathro's fans that seem to see him as the one to break the old firm stranglehold on things. I'd be delighted if that happened but so far there is no evidence that it will happen and he does not have any proof from his career so far that it will. until he either succeds or gets the sack we are all waiting to see but if he gets the sack I would be happy to see an experienced manager make the most of our more competitive finances relative to most Scottish clubs. Back to work for me meantime.

May 9, 2017

"NOT A BIG CLUB"???

Police estimates of over 150,000 that lined the streets from the Tron to Gorgie on that Scottish cup winning Sunday parade in 1998 when we won the cup.

FTH.

Are you serious? 130k turned up because it was free...Supporters put their money into a club and don't just turn up to glory hunt on a sunny Sunday morning...

May 9, 2017

Fortunately fan ownership will not be as you hope it to be. We simply cannot have the lunatics taking over the asylum.

It is not about accepting second best or mediocrity - that is precisely what i don't want. But there is a difference between talking of being winners and actually winning. Cathro's critics talk as if they have a winner's mentality then when you ask how they'd go about it, the best they can do is offer usTommy Wright, who is a modern day Jim Jeffries in style and approach. We've done that, it worked for us on one occasion in 1998. That approach can only take you so far - in 99% of cases when it comes to the crunch you end up being cannon fodder for the OF because you cannot control the game...

Who is to say that trying to play football will work or not but there is no refuting that possession, control and controlled aggression are the best way forward! They simply ARE. As per the Scotsman it is nothing revolutionary. Apart from last winter the pitches are better than the 70s and 80s - they are there to have football played on them! Cathro and MacPhee are talking the talk. All we need to do is start walking the walk. Give them a chance before you bring JJ out of retirement or get in Tommy freaking "I deserve a chance at Ibrox" Wright as your "Master Plan"...

I might also add that I have absolutely no problem with what Craig Levein does at Hearts. His recruitment needs improved, but I'm sure he knows that. I do not subscribe to the underhand campaign that is being waged against him on here.

Why you are bang on the money, and I think in less than 3 weeks time you will have a glaring example, we actually already have had one this season.

Ask any Aberdeen fan about Derek McInnes or the pending Scottish Cup Final. Pretty much all will tell you, they cant play against the OF and worse still he doesn't know how to. Humped in the League Cup Final because he tried to change from hunter to passive, with a playmaker. It was alien to them, they were dry humped. Watch in a couple of weeks, he will go native and still get dry humped. Because they wont have control of the ball.

Control, control control. I am surprised you didn't use 2012 as an example. Though we struggled in matches against Celtic in 2012, in the second half of that semi, our players had the belief to pass the ball. In the final it was that passing that won us the game so comfortably.

With shit players it is a long uncomfortable road, but at the end of it you will have a better chance.

May 9, 2017

This comes up from time to time and anyways needs corrected.

Alex Ferguson was already an outstanding manager and had a track record which was better than any. It also included a European trophy with a provincial club like Aberdeen. He had a presence that was always there. People could see what he was doing which is why they stuck by him.

Comparing that to the embarrassing Cathro is simply ridiculous.

He wouldn't have got the time in today's modern football regardless of his previous record. Mourinho and Chelsea immediately spring to mind. So the comparison is fair with regard to today.

May 9, 2017

Modern fan? I'm 42. I loved the teams of the 80s more than any other Hearts teams - but I suffered with them and because of them too...We also had Jimmy Bone and Sandy Clark. 3 small front men was our style for only a couple of years of that decade.

You can try to pick apart bits of my post if you like. The simple truth is that we we won the Cup in '98 even though we almost let it slip...We were so under the cosh in the last few minutes that we couldn't even bring Robbo on for a swansong which was heart-breaking in itself. It was the one time we survived sitting deep and inviting Rangers onto us.

2006 we didn't play very well and invited Gretna to control the game. With 10 men we got it to penalties, thankfully.

2012 was the only one of the 3 that we won comfortably. We had total control.

Nobody is pretending that all is rosy at the moment, but if you remove the rose-tinted glasses you have for yesteryear, you may just recognize that we were actually quite fortunate to win 2 of the paltry 3 pieces of silverware we have won in the last >50 years, precisely because we were not able to do the things Cathro talks of - control, possession, hustle...

Nobody is denying that we are failing to implement what Cathro is talking about, but is that really reason to just give up and stop trying?

control, possession, hustle? Is that a new thing?

Not sure if you ever played or not but when I played youth level, under 21s and seniors 20 odd years ago we worked at all that. It's not new to football but people who go on about it come across as if they've never played.

It's about quality.

I find it sad, yourself being a Hearts fan , you want to find a way to belittle our cup wins just to justify a point.

Is football easy? No. Winning doesn't come easy, you have to fight tooth and nail just to get over the line sometimes...yes, even great , flowing football teams.

I suppose we can look forward to Hearts having 90% possession under IC in future finals as we waltz to trophy after trophy. It's so easy.

May 9, 2017

Fortunately fan ownership will not be as you hope it to be. We simply cannot have the lunatics taking over the asylum.

It is not about accepting second best or mediocrity - that is precisely what i don't want. But there is a difference between talking of being winners and actually winning. Cathro's critics talk as if they have a winner's mentality then when you ask how they'd go about it, the best they can do is offer usTommy Wright, who is a modern day Jim Jeffries in style and approach. We've done that, it worked for us on one occasion in 1998. That approach can only take you so far - in 99% of cases when it comes to the crunch you end up being cannon fodder for the OF because you cannot control the game...

Who is to say that trying to play football will work or not but there is no refuting that possession, control and controlled aggression are the best way forward! They simply ARE. As per the Scotsman it is nothing revolutionary. Apart from last winter the pitches are better than the 70s and 80s - they are there to have football played on them! Cathro and MacPhee are talking the talk. All we need to do is start walking the walk. Give them a chance before you bring JJ out of retirement or get in Tommy freaking "I deserve a chance at Ibrox" Wright as your "Master Plan"...

I might also add that I have absolutely no problem with what Craig Levein does at Hearts. His recruitment needs improved, but I'm sure he knows that. I do not subscribe to the underhand campaign that is being waged against him on here.

No one is waging any "underhand campaign" on here - it's just fans (some of whom are investing a lot of money in the club over past and present) expressing, very justifiably , their criticism of CL. Some do it more eloquently and less passionately than others. But to say there is a "campaign" is nonsense.

This debate isn't about accepting second best or mediocrity - we agree on that.

From what I can see it is most definiteley about a lack of accountability for abject failures in signing policy of players , recruitment policy (we didn't have a open recruitment for the head coach role ? why on earth not ? ) and the contracts handed out to absolute losers that will cost the club a fortune for years to come.

This isn't a knee-jerk reaction from fans - there are serious failures at the club and fans have a right to express their discontent. But we're talking about a football forum , not the Oxford Debating Society.

I haven't seen such a bunch of losers since the mass loan signing cup final of 2012. But apparently it's not a crisis.

Well we all know what happened after that game.

In any case I doubt AB is taking much account of this forum when it comes to CL. What does concern me after 3 years in the job is what she has been doing to get to know/understand the football side of the business.It clearly needs to be addressed. It's time she was getting some outside opinions on CL - and whoever else is responsible for the current farce.

Serious question - is there anyone IITK who can clarify , has the club bothered to speak to the players and get feedback as to why it's been so poor for so long.

May 9, 2017

Oh boy is this thread a depressing read.

I've come to the conclusion that there are some Hearts fans who do not deserve to follow a good team. Some of our support is just toxic... Over the years I've wondered why it always seemed to be Hearts fans who did embarrassing stuff like throwing bananas at Mark Walters, booing dead Popes, Physically attacking an opposition manager in our own stadium; paying for planes to fly over Tynecastle. All excruciating stuff that has happened during my time as an Hearts fan...

People agitated for Robbie to leave and got their wish. He got fed up and left at first opportunity that came his way, trying to tell himself that it was the right move at the right time...Well it was the right time as far as he was concerned. Not so good for us, but I don't blame him...

We then got a new young, ambitious Head Coach. Everyone got on board and the support was finally united - for all of 1 game.

Now all I see is people directing their ire towards the new coach. They cannot look past the responsibility lying with the Head Coach and want his head. Why? We can all see that the players are clearly not doing what the manager is saying he wants them to do - it couldn't be more obvious. Why? To go back to being what we've always been - underachievers with a reputation for fielding big teams of hoofballers. Let's get a big physical number 9! Let's get Tommy fecking Wright! Let's get 1970s and 80s tactics and style of manager because this new fangled style of football where you play the ball on the deck hasn't bedded immediately...

Are Hearts a big club? No we are not!

People have expectations of winning the majority of games yet our silverware haul is 3 cups in 50+ years. The 2 do not marry up. We are only a big club in Edinburgh ie not even in Scottish terms! People say that Cathro is rubbish because football is a results game. Well in that case Hearts are rubbish! Our silverware record for a big club in this small pond is embarrassing - Newcastle and Spurs fans should laugh at us...

Changing a style of football is not easy. I know nothing about being a professional footballer. For years I've sat watching players in warm up "controlling" a ball by knocking it 3 yards to their left of right. It's not what I regard as close control, nor instant control...I've come to the conclusion that the sort of control you see from Messi in a game is not the sort that lesser players can do, so they are perhaps coached to direct/deflect the ball rather than cushion it and kill it's momentum? Thinking about it Messi doesn't kill the momentum of the ball either, he is just not 3 yards behind the ball after his first touch! However, there is no reason why, with the correct personnel Hearts cannot develop a possession game. Tynecastle is a small pitch but I've watched the OF, particularly Celtic, knocking the ball left to right and back along our 18 yard line whilst we stood off them or chased shadows. That is how better players tire out fit, but not so good players. It is not exclusive to Barcelona. It is just professional football as far as I can see.

Why have we only had 5 good strikers in the last 20 years? Macphee has identified it as per above. Precisely because there is a large element of our support who just want to watch professionals play kids football. They want blood and thunder - "Get the ball up the effing park!" then "FFS get it in the box Hertz". Unsophisticated football minds who would not dream of attending a tactical Q&A session with the manager but will sit here on a thread debating the output as if their opinion counts for more than the Club's management's. They see what Levein and Cathro and Macphee cannot! Sorry, but that's balls. Watching football doesn't make someone an expert on football. I've been doing it for 40 years but I would not dream of telling 30-year old Ian Cathro how to do his job! All I can do is try to interpret what he is trying to do.

I will nail my colours to the mast. Being an Hearts supporter is the weirdest thing - we had terrible teams in the 70s and won nothing, We had good teams in the 80s and won nothing. The reason the OF won stuff is that they control games. Yes, they can get a bit of help sometimes from officials, but OUR style of football ALWAYS gave the officials the opportunity to gift them late penalties etc. Our style of football DID NOT WORK for us. We simply have to move on, evolve on the park. Off the park, the Hearts fans need to give the management a chance, give the players support even when they mess up. What I perceive Cathro to be trying to do is not easy, and he's made mistakes but calling him an "experiment" and saying he has failed is frankly stupid. Currently his methods are not working, but let's give the guy a chance to turn it round. I have no problem with us training coaches on the job, we've got nothing to lose. We are only glorious in our own dreams. If they get it right then we could get something special, If not, then we can all go back to employing Tommy Wrights and get enthused about him signing tryers like Neil Macfarlane, Jamie MacAllister, John Millar etc and having motivated teams who come unstuck 99% of the time when it matters...Let's not be in such a hurry to revert to the same old "nearly men" ways...

You have summed up everything in a manner I couldn't. bravo.

Cant say I enjoy our football just now but what the have we got to lose by taking another approach. We will never be more than we have been without taking risks.

Mods, any chance of making this Spellczech's post a sticky (or the banner) by itself??

May 9, 2017

96 we were unlikely to control a cup final in Glasgow against one of the old firm.

06 we were against a team we underestimated playing out their dream and nearly suffered

12 we played against fenlon's losers and did control the game.

Most fans unhappy about Cathro are not expecting to win tons of trophies under him or anyone else. Sometimes it is cathro's fans that seem to see him as the one to break the old firm stranglehold on things. I'd be delighted if that happened but so far there is no evidence that it will happen and he does not have any proof from his career so far that it will. until he either succeds or gets the sack we are all waiting to see but if he gets the sack I would be happy to see an experienced manager make the most of our more competitive finances relative to most Scottish clubs. Back to work for me meantime.

'96? Let's not discuss that one please..? Worst football supporting day of my life (apart from those 2 in '86)...I'm guessing you were meaning '98 anyway.

I don't see us winning tonnes of trophies with Cathro, but the one thing I can see is that IF (big "if") he can do what he says he wants to do then we could have a good crack at the league. What Leicester did without possession was amazing last year but I still think it was a case of all the usual big clubs in England being either a shambles or cutting each other's throats ie Chelsea doing for Spurs at the end being the most obvious example...In the end you started to wonder if clubs were trying to help Leicester!

May 9, 2017

control, possession, hustle? Is that a new thing?

Not sure if you ever played or not but when I played youth level, under 21s and seniors 20 odd years ago we worked at all that. It's not new to football but people who go on about it come across as if they've never played.

It's about quality.

I find it sad, yourself being a Hearts fan , you want to find a way to belittle our cup wins just to justify a point.

Is football easy? No. Winning doesn't come easy, you have to fight tooth and nail just to get over the line sometimes...yes, even great , flowing football teams.

I suppose we can look forward to Hearts having 90% possession under IC in future finals as we waltz to trophy after trophy. It's so easy.

I don't think it was belittling our wins but looking at them in the cold light of day. Though I do disagree with the 2006 assessment, Hearts just ran out of steam that day, we controlled and dominated many games that season. Our midfield was very brave.

May 9, 2017

'96? Let's not discuss that one please..? Worst football supporting day of my life (apart from those 2 in '86)...I'm guessing you were meaning '98 anyway.

I don't see us winning tonnes of trophies with Cathro, but the one thing I can see is that IF (big "if") he can do what he says he wants to do then we could have a good crack at the league. What Leicester did without possession was amazing last year but I still think it was a case of all the usual big clubs in England being either a shambles or cutting each other's throats ie Chelsea doing for Spurs at the end being the most obvious example...In the end you started to wonder if clubs were trying to help Leicester!

I could see us doing something akin to 2005/6 if we got it right, but Celtic I'm afraid are light light years ahead and only going further clear of us. Leicester was the perfect storm. Aberdeen probably had the best shot last year and ended up well beaten.

May 9, 2017

96 we were unlikely to control a cup final in Glasgow against one of the old firm.

06 we were against a team we underestimated playing out their dream and nearly suffered

12 we played against fenlon's losers and did control the game.

Most fans unhappy about Cathro are not expecting to win tons of trophies under him or anyone else. Sometimes it is cathro's fans that seem to see him as the one to break the old firm stranglehold on things. I'd be delighted if that happened but so far there is no evidence that it will happen and he does not have any proof from his career so far that it will. until he either succeds or gets the sack we are all waiting to see but if he gets the sack I would be happy to see an experienced manager make the most of our more competitive finances relative to most Scottish clubs. Back to work for me meantime.

Somebody's got break that strangle hold as it is suffocating the life out of Scottish football. How it's done I'm not sure but we've got to try (we nearly died trying) Is Cathro the answer nobody truthfully knows. I was and have been a pissed off and deflated by recent results under him. I feel we need to give him till Christmas and if it's not happening he needs changed. That will happen of that I have no doudt.

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