Meet the Management event

[Spellczech]

Why you are bang on the money, and I think in less than 3 weeks time you will have a glaring example, we actually already have had one this season.

 

Ask any Aberdeen fan about Derek McInnes or the pending Scottish Cup Final. Pretty much  all will tell you, they cant play against the OF and worse still he doesn't know how to. Humped in the League Cup Final because he tried to change from hunter to passive, with a playmaker. It was alien to them, they were dry humped. Watch in a couple of weeks, he will go native and still get dry humped. Because they wont have control of the ball.

 

Control, control control. I am surprised you didn't use 2012 as an example. Though we struggled in matches against Celtic in 2012, in the second half of that semi, our players had the belief to pass the ball. In the final it was that passing that won us the game so comfortably.

 

With shit players it is a long uncomfortable road, but at the end of it you will have a better chance.

Yep - you cannot play a Plan A every week and then a Plan B just for the OF. Just as you cannot park the bus in the SPL and expect to do a Leicester as there are buses parked all over the place! Bus parking is what allows the OF to face the same sort of challenge every week. There have been seasons where they could get away with having pretty poor defences just because teams were setting up for a point before the whistle is blown.

 

IMO Cathro is saying that we need a Plan A, and we need a Plan B, but Plan B is only for when Plan A is not working. ie it is not just for Ibrox and Celtic Park. If a team plays football then the bigger pitches in Glasgow should not be a problem and require a bus...

 

Resources will always be a problem for us, which is why the Academy is vital. We need to produce our own players as we cannot buy better players than the OF can buy...Plan A has to be done right the way through the age groups. 

 

Hearts make mistakes - we always have. 10 years ago, the Academy was doing the Dutch method whereby players were played all over the park. For some reason we were still doing that with the young players when they were breaking into the first team - Jonsson, McGowan - or even worse we were trying to get young strikers to play on their own up top - Elliot, Mole - even where they were clearly floundering...

 

For the Cup Final, McInnes has to risk a tanking. The current Celtic team are too good to try to hold for an hour and hope their fans will get on their backs. They already have LC & League, the Celtic fans will not get on their team's back...

[Spellczech]

I could see us doing something akin to 2005/6 if we got it right, but Celtic I'm afraid are light light years ahead and only going further clear of us. Leicester was the perfect storm. Aberdeen probably had the best shot last year and ended up well beaten.

At the moment yes - But how long until Rodgers gets another chance in England? Where do they turn to next? 

[Francis Albert]

Most of sunday fans around me were not shouting get the ball forward. They were complaining about an endless succession of long balls punted to an isolated Goncalves who even if he got the ball had no options to do anything with it. Cathro said early on that he would never adopt a long ball tactic. Why is that so often our only attacking option. Why does our midfield rarely provide any other option for playing from the back?

[siegementality]

The difference between Tommy Wright and Cathro is Wright has his team playing to their strengths. Cathro has a vision of how he wants us to play and is unwilling to change. Maybe Wright wants St Johnstone to play nice possession football but he knows he doesn't and will never have that quality of player. He has them punching well above their weight and heading for Europe.

 

Cathro signed players that were seen as fitting his style and in fairness they probably should have. They haven't performed but neither have the players that were performing well before he arrived. Djoum, kitchen, Walker, hell even Johnson was player of the month for November.

 

Sorry but we're not in a financial position to keep making big changes to the team. Try playing to the strengths instead of chasing a vision we can't afford

Cathro admitted he always said he would never take a job mid season. It was clear he would have wanted a whole pre season to get players, build a system and play a certain style.

 

He was honest enough to say he broke that rule when he got the call from Hearts as it was too good a club to refuse. Because he was brought in - because Neilson jumped ship - mid season he didn't have the chance to have that pre season. In January they brought in players because the numbers were low. The amount of six month deals told you we got what we could rather than what we wanted. This close season we will see the type of player he really wants.

 

I was impressed with both Cathrine and McPhee. It is clear they both get Hearts and understand the history and the passion of the fans. They freely admitted results haven't been nearly good enough. Cathro admitted he thought we would have been better by now. It's clear they know what they are doing. They are two intelligent guys how have worked at some big clubs and in McPhees case a World Cup.

 

I have no doubt that they will succeed. My fear is they succeed elsewhere as they were driven away by a group of supporters only see the future as next weeks game. It'll take a bit longer than that and I await the backtracking when people see the quality/ type of player we sign.

[Ivan Drago]

This comes up from time to time and anyways needs corrected.

 

Alex Ferguson was already an outstanding manager and had a track record which was better than any. It also included a European trophy with a provincial club like Aberdeen. He had a presence that was always there. People could see what he was doing which is why they stuck by him.

 

Comparing that to the embarrassing Cathro is simply ridiculous.

Comparing Cathro's tenure to Alex Fergusons start at Man U is clearly the new "Mourinho couldn't do any better with these players" that always got trotted out when Locke was here

[siegementality]

This might have been discussed already, but the fan who tried to justify our past success in signing foreign players by mentioning Skacel and Fyssas. Yes these guys were great players and we would all love to have players of that calibre at the club nowadays, but getting players in like that on the wages they command nearly killed our club. Not their fault as individuals, but we can no longer recruit players outwith our means like that.

 

I couldn't believe someone would actually bring that up!

Given he nearly broke his neck to run up to ask the question I would have suggested he sat on his arse and looked up the word focus. Yes we will focus on signing players with British football experience, but that wasn't exclusively going to be our signing policy. Cathro made that clear, some people need to spend less time fuming and more time listening.

[Spellczech]

No one is waging any "underhand campaign" on here - it's just fans (some of whom are investing a lot of money in the club over past and present) expressing,  very  justifiably , their criticism of CL. Some do it more eloquently and less passionately than others. But to say there is a "campaign" is nonsense. 

 

This debate isn't about accepting second best or mediocrity  - we agree on that.

 

From what I can see it is most definiteley about a lack of accountability for abject failures in signing policy of players , recruitment policy (we didn't have a open recruitment for the head coach role ? why on earth not ?  ) and the contracts handed out to absolute losers that will cost the club a fortune for years to come.

 

This isn't a knee-jerk reaction from fans - there are serious failures at the club and fans have a right to express their discontent. But we're talking about a football forum , not the Oxford Debating Society. 

 

I haven't seen such a bunch of losers since the mass loan signing cup final of 2012. But apparently it's not a crisis. 

 

Well we all know what happened after that game. 

 

In any case I doubt AB is taking much account of this forum when it comes to CL. What does concern me after 3 years in the job is what she has been doing to get to know/understand the football side of the business.It clearly needs to be addressed. It's time she was getting some outside opinions on CL - and whoever else is responsible for the current farce. 

 

Serious question   - is there anyone IITK who can clarify , has the club bothered to speak to the players and get feedback as to why it's been so poor for so long. 

Oh come on - there are plenty of unjustified "ITK" allegations on here. Some are clearly just made up...Others hearsay...others exactly what a DOF should be doing! Haha

 

It is surprising that we did in January 2017 exactly what Vlad did in January 2006. Vlad did it as PR. I think the purpose was a little more laudable this time, but the result has been even more destructive...

 

Imagine we hadn't beaten Gretna in the Cup Final? - what a bum season 05/06 would be regarded as...That was the year we won the SC without having to knock out either of the OF. Does this observation belittle the achievement in your eyes? 

[siegementality]

That was me

 

Ok, Flogel, Bruno (Aguiar and Pascale), Rousset etc etc

 

Wyness, Sutton, Nelson etc etc

 

The point is "going British" guarantees **** all. Lazy lazy lazy argument that is wrong as much as it is lazy.

 

Any team that we have had over the last 20 years that has had any success at all and/or played any kind of attractive "non-eye bleeding" football has had foreigners in it.

It was a terrible question that Cathro took the whole of 20 seconds to dismiss. Yes we will focus on players with British football experience but not only that type of player. If you had actually thought about what his answer would be you might have saved yourself the Ministry of Funny Walks moment to go grab the mike.

[Mars plastic]

At the moment yes - But how long until Rodgers gets another chance in England? Where do they turn to next? 

At the moment? They had a clown in charge last season and we couldn't beat them in 5 attempts. We're absolutely miles behind Celtic and when Rodgers eventually leaves they'll turn to somebody else who will come for the 45 grand a week they currently pay him. 

[Spellczech]

I don't think it was belittling our wins but looking at them in the cold light of day. Though I do disagree with the 2006 assessment, Hearts just ran out of steam that day, we controlled and dominated many games that season. Our midfield was very brave.

However, we didn't have to beat either OF team in 2006. We almost fell to pieces when Hartley got himself sent off. Robbie Neilson won us the Cup more than anyone that day. A good, honest tryer of a player who made "the tackle" then slotted his penalty away, no problem. 

 

Effort counts for a lot. Robbie as a player was never technically brilliant but he ran up and down his side of the pitch all day every week. Strangely he was never that highly appreciated for his effort by Hearts fans. Yet all we see on here is people complaining of a lack of effort...Poor Robbie - could never win with the Hearts support. 

 

Craig Levein was a classy player- used to cruise through games. Wonder why he gets so much stick from Hearts fans too?

 

Getting back to my original post: WTF is wrong with us?

[Spellczech]

At the moment? They had a clown in charge last season and we couldn't beat them in 5 attempts. We're absolutely miles behind Celtic and when Rodgers eventually leaves they'll turn to somebody else who will come for the 45 grand a week they currently pay him. 

Maybe - We cannot influence what happens at Celtic. All we can do is try to create the environment for our coaches and players to improve, thrive and hopefully compete. Are we doing that?

[Thomaso]

However, we didn't have to beat either OF team in 2006. We almost fell to pieces when Hartley got himself sent off. Robbie Neilson won us the Cup more than anyone that day. A good, honest tryer of a player who made "the tackle" then slotted his penalty away, no problem. 

 

Effort counts for a lot. Robbie as a player was never technically brilliant but he ran up and down his side of the pitch all day every week. Strangely he was never that highly appreciated for his effort by Hearts fans. Yet all we see on here is people complaining of a lack of effort...Poor Robbie - could never win with the Hearts support. 

 

Craig Levein was a classy player- used to cruise through games. Wonder why he gets so much stick from Hearts fans too?

 

Getting back to my original post: WTF is wrong with us?

 

You are totally correct about Levein as a player - as a Dictator of Football he is turning our Club into a total shambles - that is why he is getting stick from so many Hearts fans!

[Bazzas right boot]

control, possession, hustle? Is that a new thing?

 

Not sure if you ever played or not but when I played youth level, under 21s and seniors 20 odd years ago we worked at all that. It's not new to football but people who go on about it come across as if they've never played.

 

It's about quality.

 

I find it sad, yourself being a Hearts fan , you want to find a way to belittle our cup wins just to justify a point.

 

Is football easy? No. Winning doesn't come easy, you have to fight tooth and nail just to get over the line sometimes...yes, even great , flowing football teams.

 

I suppose we can look forward to Hearts having 90% possession under IC in future finals as we waltz to trophy after trophy. It's so easy.

You've missed the point completely.

 

In order for a to do something different, we need to try something different.

 

The set up, DoF, Cathro, etc is trying something different.

 

06 s the only time I remember Celtic fearing us. Humped them a few times and even the 3-2 game we were well on top until the red card.

 

That's the first time I remember us dominating them.

 

Everyone has Thier spells, from what I get we are trying to build something longer term and hopefully stronger. So we are in about it every season.

 

We need a brave mgt set up, we need the players , we have the best financial clout we've ever had.

 

Why not get behind it?

 

If the summer goes poorly and therefore we have a poor start, then fair enough. But give the current set up at least one full transfer window to play Thier hand before judgment has passed.

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

However, we didn't have to beat either OF team in 2006. We almost fell to pieces when Hartley got himself sent off. Robbie Neilson won us the Cup more than anyone that day. A good, honest tryer of a player who made "the tackle" then slotted his penalty away, no problem.

 

Effort counts for a lot. Robbie as a player was never technically brilliant but he ran up and down his side of the pitch all day every week. Strangely he was never that highly appreciated for his effort by Hearts fans. Yet all we see on here is people complaining of a lack of effort...Poor Robbie - could never win with the Hearts support.

 

Craig Levein was a classy player- used to cruise through games. Wonder why he gets so much stick from Hearts fans too?

 

Getting back to my original post: WTF is wrong with us?

The tackle was over stated I thought in the context of the game. They scored a few minutes later anyhow.

We burned a lot of opportunities that day.

 

We didnt have to beat the OF no. But remember 1970 reincarnation of Brazil got a dry humping en route as did the Dandies despite a Vlad flu epidemic

[Bazzas right boot]

At the moment? They had a clown in charge last season and we couldn't beat them in 5 attempts. We're absolutely miles behind Celtic and when Rodgers eventually leaves they'll turn to somebody else who will come for the 45 grand a week they currently pay him.

Circle of concern- Celtic we can't really do much about what they do.

 

Hearts are our circle of influence, we should concentrate and get behind that, give us the best chance to succeed.

 

Celtic look uncatchable ATM, Football changes quickly, we can only improve ourselves and hopefully that will result in us getting better.

 

The limit, to dunno.

[siegementality]

 

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/teams/hearts/11-things-we-learned-from-hearts-meet-the-management-event-1-4440923

 

11 things we learned from Hearts? Meet the Management event

 

Ian Cathro and Austin MacPhee, along with a number of Hearts coaches, gave a presentation to fans in the Gorgie Suite on Monday evening. In attendance was Joel Sked, who gives his take on proceedings

 

 

Cathro fronts up

 

?I am standing here to take it, I want to take it.?

 

Despite all the criticism, the questions, the probing and the interest, Ian Cathro has continued to front up. Twenty four hours after defeat to Aberdeen the Hearts head coach was facing a room full of disgruntled fans. Lesser managers, lesser characters may have found a way to have the evening cancelled.

 

At times, Cathro is to talking what roundabouts are to Livingston. He?s not as succinct as Austin MacPhee but what he tries to do is provide honesty. And he was honest in evaluating his time at the club.

 

When asked about a ?reasonable time? to make a success of it, Cathro said, for him, that time has ?already surpassed?. And he?s had to reassess and learn.

 

He spoke of preparing to take the step into management. His belief was always to take over at the club with a full pre-season ahead of him, but that went out the window when the opportunity presented itself at Hearts.

 

?I couldn?t not come here. It would have been the biggest mistake of my life (if I didn?t)... I think you can see someone sitting in front of you who is not going to get broken, and I tell you what, I?m not crumbling.?

 

 

Cathro is no revolutionary

 

The Hearts boss was unfairly painted by some as a Silicon Valley whizz-kid nerd here to reinvent football one spreadsheet and pie chart at a time. He professed to no such thing.

 

Nor is he an ?experiment? as some prominent voices in the media have labelled him. At the time of his appointment he was a football coach with five years? experience at clubs in Portugal, Spain and England being handed his first role as a head coach.

 

He presented his footballing ethos and there was nothing complex or revolutionary about it. It is a simplistic, idealistic model which focuses on four key areas: wanting the ball and building up to play; to stay, dominate and take risks in the opponent?s half; to press aggressively when the ball is lost; and to defend pro-actively with a high line.

 

If it comes to fruition it?ll have Tynecastle rocking to cheers rather than jeers.

 

 

Live by the sword, die by the sword

 

?There is nothing that can happen that can rock my belief in us doing what we are going to do and it being the right thing for this club to progress.?

 

The phrase ?doth protest too much? comes to mind, yet Cathro seems to have a mantra. One which means he is not for shifting. The coach will live and die by his sword. The sword in this case is his football model.

 

The 30-year-old used Newcastle as an example. In the season they were relegated they changed what they believed in, and opted for another route to their destination but ended up getting lost. That won?t happen at Tynecastle. Cathro believes in himself and how he sees football being played.

 

 

They ?get it?

 

Said by assistant Austin MacPhee: ?We want to find the right players on the sides of the pitch that not only excite you when they run down them but there is somebody in the box to head the ball in the goal. And they also have the capacity to defend the way we want to defend, which is high, which is aggressive, which is keeping them in their half.

 

?When they receive the ball you know they are going to be robust. They are going to be Hearts players. They are going to go into tackles that bring everyone to their feet. Because those things are important and they are a key identity to the club.

 

?The hurt in the Hibs defeat and the manner of the defeat has not been lost on us. It has not been lost on us. That lack of fight that was shown there has not been lost on our recruitment process.

 

?We need to make sure the team has an identity.

 

?If Plan A is not going well, Plan B is being robust enough not to lose a goal. Easter Road, Plan A is not going well, we weren?t robust enough to lose a goal in a derby in that way. There is an element there of knowing the league, knowing the country, knowing the environment and being equipped for that.

 

?It?s very important that core, that identity, that six, seven out of ten, will header out the box, stop the shot, foul at the right time, know the league, win the derby. It?s important that is in our team and we want to add that in the summer.?

 

 

Changes are coming

 

One area emphasised time and time again was recruitment. The management DO realise it wasn?t good enough in January. There will be changes. Players will leave and players will depart.

 

The management team are looking to strengthen the centre of midfield and the centre of defence. They want more options on the flank and certainly another forward.

 

It led to a moment which brought a collective question from the floor: ?GOALKEEPER?!?!?

 

As uncertain as Jack Hamilton?s goalkeeping against Aberdeen, there was no definitive answer on that front.

 

 

Recuitment I

 

?It?s one area of the club we are trying to modernise, for the reasons all of you know, probably not enough of it has been good,? said MacPhee. ?None of us are shying away from that; Ann Budge, Craig (Levein), myself, Ian. We?re looking to innovate with that. We?re trying to de-risk it.?

 

While he reiterated that the January window is a difficult time to re-shape a squad, MacPhee recognised that the club are striving to better themselves in that aspect. One example given was the injury to John Souttar in late January at Celtic Park. There were little to no contingency plan in place.

 

Players will be watched more often and by more people.

 

The club have recently had a presentation from Brentford, one of the most innovative recruiters in world football, and will have others from both Manchester City and Manchester United.

 

They want to gain an edge, to be ahead of Aberdeen, Celtic and Hibs for players. They want to learn, improve and make the structure more robust.

 

 

Recruitment II

 

There has been calls for, a want of a better phrase, more Britishness in the team. The management team understand and recognise the equilibrium is not correct within the squad. Cathro had said in an interview at the weekend that there will be a focus on the British market.

 

One fan, however, made the point that foreign players have done extremely well at Tynecastle and are much-loved, fearful that the club will be cutting of its nose to spite their face.

 

Cathro stated that their recruitment is ruling out no one but there will be an emphasis on players who have experience of Scottish or English football.

 

 

Academy

 

Another criticism thrown at the club of late is the lack of young talent from the academy emerging. This is somewhat harsh considering the likes of Rory Currie and Liam Smith joined a core of players already in the squad who emerged from the system.

 

There has also been a lack of understanding from such critics. Dig a little deeper and they will discover that because of mismanagement by the previous owner the academy had been neglected and required a complete revamp, a task which has been undertaken expansively by academy director Roger Arnott and director of football Craig Levein.

 

Players have had to be recruited from far and wide to plug holes and supplement a skeleton squad. However, the club took in its largest single intake of academy graduates. Those eight are seen as the next crop, the future.

 

There is big hopes for them and the club are pushing them, having moved players on deemed not good enough to open space for them to get minutes playing in the under-20s.

 

 

Goncalves will be a star

 

Both Cathro and MacPhee were lavish in their praise of Esmael Goncalves despite concerns from the audience about his erratic finishing and tendency to drift to the periphery of games. His lifestyle and dedication to his craft was enthused by MacPhee as was his personality.

 

?A Tynecastle crowd can finish a striker. That person needs to be a robust, confident boy.?

 

Cathro believes within six months he will be the name on the back of fans? shirts and there is a desire to find striker who complements him.

 

 

Aaron Hughes was a fine catch

 

At the end of MacPhee?s presentation he was fulsome in his praise of Aaron Hughes. Yet it was clearly and simply stated he wasn?t the future of the football club. After all he?s 37 years old.

 

But he is here to help, educate and develop the future. His experience is there to rub off on the likes of John Souttar and Jack Hamilton, the latter he goes fishing with.

 

 

The star of the show...almost

 

The Q&A session brought one of the highlights of the evening, a moment when even MacPhee was upstaged. A young fan, barely in her teens maybe even younger, offered one of the most passionate, thought-provoking, analytical observations you will hear in a long time.

 

At first she was reading the question she had written down from the paper handed to her. It seemed that maybe a relative had persuaded her to ask their question. But she soon discarded the bit of paper and allowed not only her passion but inquisitive mind to take over.

 

?Where is the link up play? I watch Jamie Walker standing in the middle of the park with the ball and he can?t go forward,? she said. ?We pass it back so much and we talk about ball possession but seriously there are no options to go forward and Isma?s on the wing. You get it up the park but who?s in the box? You can?t put a cross in, you?ve got to go back, back. So I?m asking where is the link-up play??

 

She wasn?t finished there. There were still more relevant points to come: ?Our players are constantly talking about fighting back when we lose the ball, where is the spirit. Scottish football is physical. Look at Aberdeen they have physical players.?

 

You could hear, feel even, in her voice, the hurt of having to witness what she has witnessed in the last five months. What it means to her. But not only that, a question that had substance to it, something one or many of the media could learn something from.

 

As soon as she discarded her bit of paper, ears started to pick up on what she was saying, momentum grew and she was soon being cheered on and backed by those in the room. She was expressing what everyone else was feeling.

 

She had everyone behind her, until she queried why Bjorn Johnson wasn?t playing. A step too far for many.

A good summary of what went on. It would appear that honesty about mistakes made - not all of their making - and a coherent long term plan still isn't good enough for the JKB would be pilots.

[Bazzas right boot]

You are totally correct about Levein as a player - as a Dictator of Football he is turning our Club into a total shambles - that is why he is getting stick from so many Hearts fans!

Dictator of Football.

 

 

Deary, deary , deary me.

[Nookie Bear]

You've missed the point completely.

 

In order for a to do something different, we need to try something different.

 

The set up, DoF, Cathro, etc is trying something different.

 

06 s the only time I remember Celtic fearing us. Humped them a few times and even the 3-2 game we were well on top until the red card.

 

That's the first time I remember us dominating them.

 

Everyone has Thier spells, from what I get we are trying to build something longer term and hopefully stronger. So we are in about it every season.

 

We need a brave mgt set up, we need the players , we have the best financial clout we've ever had.

 

Why not get behind it?

 

If the summer goes poorly and therefore we have a poor start, then fair enough. But give the current set up at least one full transfer window to play Thier hand before judgment has passed.

 

Can't disagree with anything there, except we overlook the fact we have a Head Coach who seems to want to be a DoF and DoF who still wants to be a head Coach.

 

These are observations, of course, but the league table isn't and there is a difference between "settling in period" and "unable to run a football team".

[deejtee]

'96? Let's not discuss that one please..? Worst football supporting day of my life (apart from those 2 in '86)...I'm guessing you were meaning '98 anyway.

 

I don't see us winning tonnes of trophies with Cathro, but the one thing I can see is that IF (big "if") he can do what he says he wants to do then we could have a good crack at the league. What Leicester did without possession was amazing last year but I still think it was a case of all the usual big clubs in England being either a shambles or cutting each other's throats ie Chelsea doing for Spurs at the end being the most obvious example...In the end you started to wonder if clubs were trying to help Leicester!

Indeed!

I reckon league reconstruction may help us challenge in the league except we would then need to beat the "wee" teams and hold our own against the bigger teams. Failing that sneaking up on the rails when the old firm only have eyes for each other would help. The financial gap has been too big to close in Scottish football for a long time now and may continue to widen between us and Celtic.

[Bring Back Paulo Sergio]

A good summary of what went on. It would appear that honesty about mistakes made - not all of their making - and a coherent long term plan still isn't good enough for the JKB would be pilots.

Just a small hole in your 'logic'. We were battling for 2nd until Cathro became the worst manager in HMFC history.

[Mars plastic]

Maybe - We cannot influence what happens at Celtic. All we can do is try to create the environment for our coaches and players to improve, thrive and hopefully compete. Are we doing that?

Makes no odds whatsoever who we bring in, we aren't catching Celtic. Not now, not ever. They earn 6 million quid alone each year from that glamour tournament in America alone before you start adding up their CL dough monies.

[Spellczech]

Makes no odds whatsoever who we bring in, we aren't catching Celtic. Not now, not ever. They earn 6 million quid alone each year from that glamour tournament in America alone before you start adding up their CL dough monies.

Money isn't everything. If you want to worry about the financial disparity you'll get more sympathetic ears at Ibrox...We've always been battling against far greater budgets over in Glasgow. What we need is a model which gets us developing players who can compete as we will never manage to out-buy them. 

[Thomaso]

Dictator of Football.

 

 

Deary, deary , deary me.

 

 

You don't think that Levein is totally dictating policy with regards to the football side at Hearts??? 

 

Deary, deary, DEARY, me! 

[Bazzas right boot]

Can't disagree with anything there, except we overlook the fact we have a Head Coach who seems to want to be a DoF and DoF who still wants to be a head Coach.

 

These are observations, of course, but the league table isn't and there is a difference between "settling in period" and "unable to run a football team".

Fair enough, can't really comment on Levien, only know that recruitment must be better.

 

The Footballing side has gone worse than I think everyone expected, but n all honesty any Football team put together in January runs high risk of being " dodgy", I'll wait until after the Summer to judge, a good start will be required.

[Bazzas right boot]

You don't think that Levein is totally dictating policy with regards to the football side at Hearts???

 

Deary, deary, DEARY, me!

I think he's directing it....

[Mars plastic]

Money isn't everything. If you want to worry about the financial disparity you'll get more sympathetic ears at Ibrox...We've always been battling against far greater budgets over in Glasgow. What we need is a model which gets us developing players who can compete as we will never manage to out-buy them. 

Money is everything, actually. What you need when you have pots of cash are the people at the club who know how to spend it. What Lawwell and his board have done at Celtic is something else. Look at their scouting system, picked up Wanyama and Van Dijk and sold them for fortunes and made more fortunes from sell on clauses. Is it 5 mill they'll make from the sell on fee for VD? They picked up Gordon for nowt and how they got Dembele on a free is beyond me.

 

They're paying Rodgers 2.5 million quid a year, however, the value of having somebody like that as their manager who can attract the players he has pays that back in spades. you can guarantee there will be more big names arriving at Parkhead in the summer with the lure of CL on offer.

[combo74]

Oh boy is this thread a depressing read.

 

I've come to the conclusion that there are some Hearts fans who do not deserve to follow a good team. Some of our support is just toxic... Over the years I've wondered why it always seemed to be Hearts fans who did embarrassing stuff like throwing bananas at Mark Walters, booing dead Popes, Physically attacking an opposition manager in our own stadium; paying for planes to fly over Tynecastle. All excruciating stuff that has happened during my time as an Hearts fan...

 

People agitated for Robbie to leave and got their wish. He got fed up and left at first opportunity that came his way, trying to tell himself that it was the right move at the right time...Well it was the right time as far as he was concerned. Not so good for us, but I don't blame him...

 

We then got a new young, ambitious Head Coach. Everyone got on board and the support was finally united - for all of 1 game.

 

Now all I see is people directing their ire towards the new coach. They cannot look past the responsibility lying with the Head Coach and want his head. Why? We can all see that the players are clearly not doing what the manager is saying he wants them to do - it couldn't be more obvious. Why? To go back to being what we've always been - underachievers with a reputation for fielding big teams of hoofballers. Let's get a big physical number 9! Let's get Tommy fecking Wright! Let's get 1970s and 80s tactics and style of manager because this new fangled style of football where you play the ball on the deck hasn't bedded immediately...

 

Are Hearts a big club? No we are not!

 

People have expectations of winning the majority of games yet our silverware haul is 3 cups in 50+ years. The 2 do not marry up. We are only a big club in Edinburgh ie not even in Scottish terms! People say that Cathro is rubbish because football is a results game. Well in that case Hearts are rubbish! Our silverware record for a big club in this small pond is embarrassing - Newcastle and Spurs fans should laugh at us...

 

Changing a style of football is not easy. I know nothing about being a professional footballer. For years I've sat watching players in warm up "controlling" a ball by knocking it 3 yards to their left of right. It's not what I regard as close control, nor instant control...I've come to the conclusion that the sort of control you see from Messi in a game is not the sort that lesser players can do, so they are perhaps coached to direct/deflect the ball rather than cushion it and kill it's momentum? Thinking about it Messi doesn't kill the momentum of the ball either, he is just not 3 yards behind the ball after his first touch! However, there is no reason why, with the correct personnel Hearts cannot develop a possession game. Tynecastle is a small pitch but I've watched the OF, particularly Celtic, knocking the ball left to right and back along our 18 yard line whilst we stood off them or chased shadows. That is how better players tire out fit, but not so good players. It is not exclusive to Barcelona. It is just professional football as far as I can see.

 

Why have we only had 5 good strikers in the last 20 years? Macphee has identified it as per above. Precisely because there is a large element of our support who just want to watch professionals play kids football. They want blood and thunder - "Get the ball up the effing park!" then "FFS get it in the box Hertz". Unsophisticated football minds who would not dream of attending a tactical Q&A session with the manager but will sit here on a thread debating the output as if their opinion counts for more than the Club's management's. They see what Levein and Cathro and Macphee cannot! Sorry, but that's balls. Watching football doesn't make someone an expert on football. I've been doing it for 40 years but I would not dream of telling 30-year old Ian Cathro how to do his job! All I can do is try to interpret what he is trying to do.

 

I will nail my colours to the mast. Being an Hearts supporter is the weirdest thing - we had terrible teams in the 70s and won nothing, We had good teams in the 80s and won nothing. The reason the OF won stuff is that they control games. Yes, they can get a bit of help sometimes from officials, but OUR style of football ALWAYS gave the officials the opportunity to gift them late penalties etc. Our style of football DID NOT WORK for us. We simply have to move on, evolve on the park. Off the park, the Hearts fans need to give the management a chance, give the players support even when they mess up. What I perceive Cathro to be trying to do is not easy, and he's made mistakes but calling him an "experiment" and saying he has failed is frankly stupid. Currently his methods are not working, but let's give the guy a chance to turn it round. I have no problem with us training coaches on the job, we've got nothing to lose. We are only glorious in our own dreams. If they get it right then we could get something special, If not, then we can all go back to employing Tommy Wrights and get enthused about him signing tryers like Neil Macfarlane, Jamie MacAllister, John Millar etc and having motivated teams who come unstuck 99% of the time when it matters...Let's not be in such a hurry to revert to the same old "nearly men" ways...

Excellent post. Can we get this as a sticky or an automatic reply to 90% of the threads that get posted on JKB these days.

[Toxteth O'Grady]

They didn't really mention specific players that were not up to it, I don't suppose they could. They did reference our "stock-piling of left backs" and that the millionaire with 70+ caps for Greece hadn't exactly worked out as they'd hoped, specifically citing the game at Easter Road as one he just didn't have the attitude or desire for.

. Did anyone ask why they keep picking the lazy Greek?

[socrates82]

You don't think that Levein is totally dictating policy with regards to the football side at Hearts??? 

 

Deary, deary, DEARY, me! 

 

How many times do you need to be told how the football side of things work? Do you go on other forums and bang on for hours that people haven't landed on the moon and other conspiracy theories you've convinced yourself are true?

[Hendricks]

I've read it all now.

 

Its the Hearts fans fault we have had only "5 decent strikers in 20 years"!!!!

 

Deary deary me.

[Mr Sifter]

Spellczeck with the post of the year for me.

[eduardo.j]

Are you familiar with the concept of 'fan ownership' ?

Who is going to fund the cost if not the fans ?

If you can't or won't help out that is your choice. The fundraisers are entirely voluntary no one is being forced to do anything.

If you prefer we could always leave the stand unfinished.

People like you remind me of those Hibs fans who demanded Farmer must put in more cash despite him saving them from extinction due to his goodwill to the community.

Yes I'm fully aware of what fan ownership means, my point is that paying to question a manager who has plenty to answer for isn't my idea of a fun evening nor something I feel fans should've had to pay for under our current form.

 

Fair play to those that went along but that's not my idea of a fundraiser or even a fun evening.

 

 

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[Mars plastic]

I've read it all now.

 

Its the Hearts fans fault we have had only "5 decent strikers in 20 years"!!!!

 

Deary deary me.

I'm right liking this dearly deary me chat likes.

[Ivan Drago]

Spellczeck

[Morgan]

I'm right liking this dearly deary me chat likes.

Barry innit?

[Pilmuir]

Oh boy is this thread a depressing read. 

 

I've come to the conclusion that there are some Hearts fans who do not deserve to follow a good team. Some of our support is just toxic... Over the years I've wondered why it always seemed to be Hearts fans who did embarrassing stuff like throwing bananas at Mark Walters, booing dead Popes, Physically attacking an opposition manager in our own stadium; paying for planes to fly over Tynecastle. All excruciating stuff that has happened during my time as an Hearts fan...

 

People agitated for Robbie to leave and got their wish. He got fed up and left at first opportunity that came his way, trying to tell himself that it was the right move at the right time...Well it was the right time as far as he was concerned. Not so good for us, but I don't blame him...

 

We then got a new young, ambitious Head Coach. Everyone got on board and the support was finally united - for all of 1 game.

 

Now all I see is people directing their ire towards the new coach. They cannot look past the responsibility lying with the Head Coach and want his head. Why? We can all see that the players are clearly not doing what the manager is saying he wants them to do - it couldn't be more obvious. Why? To go back to being what we've always been - underachievers with a reputation for fielding big teams of hoofballers. Let's get a big physical number 9! Let's get Tommy fecking Wright! Let's get 1970s and 80s tactics and style of manager because this new fangled style of football where you play the ball on the deck hasn't bedded immediately...

 

Are Hearts a big club? No we are not!

 

People have expectations of winning the majority of games yet our silverware haul is 3 cups in 50+ years. The 2 do not marry up. We are only a big club in Edinburgh ie not even in Scottish terms! People say that Cathro is rubbish because football is a results game. Well in that case Hearts are rubbish! Our silverware record for a big club in this small pond is embarrassing - Newcastle and Spurs fans should laugh at us...

 

Changing a style of football is not easy. I know nothing about being a professional footballer. For years I've sat watching players in warm up "controlling" a ball by knocking it 3 yards to their left of right. It's not what I regard as close control, nor instant control...I've come to the conclusion that the sort of control you see from Messi in a game is not the sort that lesser players can do, so they are perhaps coached to direct/deflect the ball rather than cushion it and kill it's momentum? Thinking about it Messi doesn't kill the momentum of the ball either, he is just not 3 yards behind the ball after his first touch! However, there is no reason why, with the correct personnel Hearts cannot develop a possession game. Tynecastle is a small pitch but I've watched the OF, particularly Celtic, knocking the ball left to right and back along our 18 yard line whilst we stood off them or chased shadows. That is how better players tire out fit, but not so good players. It is not exclusive to Barcelona. It is just professional football as far as I can see. 

 

Why have we only had 5 good strikers in the last 20 years? Macphee has identified it as per above. Precisely because there is a large element of our support who just want to watch professionals play kids football. They want blood and thunder - "Get the ball up the effing park!"  then "FFS get it in the box Hertz". Unsophisticated football minds who would not dream of attending a tactical Q&A session with the manager but will sit here on a thread debating the output as if their opinion counts for more than the Club's management's. They see what Levein and Cathro and Macphee cannot! Sorry,  but that's balls. Watching football doesn't make someone an expert on football. I've been doing it for 40 years but I would not dream of telling 30-year old Ian Cathro how to do his job! All I can do is try to interpret what he is trying to do.

 

I will nail my colours to the mast. Being an Hearts supporter is the weirdest thing - we had terrible teams in the 70s and won nothing, We had good teams in the 80s and won nothing. The reason the OF won stuff is that they control games. Yes, they can get a bit of help sometimes from officials, but OUR style of football ALWAYS gave the officials the opportunity to gift them late penalties etc. Our style of football DID NOT WORK for us.  We simply have to move on, evolve on the park. Off the park, the Hearts fans need to give the management a chance, give the players support even when they mess up. What I perceive Cathro to be trying to do is not easy, and he's made mistakes but calling him an "experiment" and saying he has failed is frankly stupid. Currently his methods are not working, but let's give the guy a chance to turn it round. I have no problem with us training coaches on the job, we've got nothing to lose. We are only glorious in our own dreams. If they get it right then we could get something special, If not, then we can all go back to employing Tommy Wrights and get enthused about him signing tryers like Neil Macfarlane, Jamie MacAllister, John Millar etc and having motivated teams who come unstuck 99% of the time when it matters...Let's not be in such a hurry to revert to the same old  "nearly men" ways...

Well said sir.

[Mars plastic]

Barry innit?

Aah, the playground bully has arrived. Your contrition evaporated already has it?

[Francis Albert]

Well said sir.

I won't quote the Spellczech analysis again but

- Hearts fans always seem to be the ones who do embarrassing things? Yes we are always rioting in Manchester and invading the pitch and stopping the presentation after a cup final win, we always have thousands belting out sectarian and pro-terrorist crap.

- Hearts are not a big club? Obviously not in world, European or UK terms They have certainly underperformed over many years but in Scottish terms they are a big club. They are a certainly a big enough club to be comfortably ahead of Partick Thistle and St. Johnstone. I don't find ambition and impatience with failure "depressing". I find lack of ambition depressing (as in the "we don't want to qualify for Europe because we will just get beat" attitude of some)

- Who were these five good strikers? We've not had a good striker since Robbo. And even Robbo would have struggled with the lack of support up front that our potentially good strikers have suffered from in most of the post-Robbo era.

- Cathro is not an experiment that so far has failed? Even he more or less said that he was last night. I hope the failure is not sustained and he succeeds. So far there is little evidence from the experiment to suggest he will. All we can do is hope.

[Nookie Bear]

May have missed the answer to my question earlier but did he single out Tziolis for his derby performance?

[Cupar Jambo]

They're probably not the worst management we've ever had to be fair.

 

Not even close

[Unknown user]

Aah, the playground bully has arrived. Your contrition evaporated already has it?

So now you're hounding a poster for hounding a poster?

Wind your neck in, the boy's apologised and the universe doesn't care if you believe him or not.

[William H. Bonney]

May have missed the answer to my question earlier but did he single out Tziolis for his derby performance?

I think someone said he thought tziolis showed a lack of effort and desire to compete.

Something along those lines.

[Bazzas right boot]

I won't quote the Spellczech analysis again but

- Hearts fans always seem to be the ones who do embarrassing things? Yes we are always rioting in Manchester and invading the pitch and stopping the presentation after a cup final win, we always have thousands belting out sectarian and pro-terrorist crap.

- Hearts are not a big club? Obviously not in world, European or UK terms They have certainly underperformed over many years but in Scottish terms they are a big club. They are a certainly a big enough club to be comfortably ahead of Partick Thistle and St. Johnstone. I don't find ambition and impatience with failure "depressing". I find lack of ambition depressing (as in the "we don't want to qualify for Europe because we will just get beat" attitude of some)

- Who were these five good strikers? We've not had a good striker since Robbo. And even Robbo would have struggled with the lack of support up front that our potentially good strikers have suffered from in most of the post-Robbo era.

- Cathro is not an experiment that so far has failed? Even he more or less said that he was last night. I hope the failure is not sustained and he succeeds. So far there is little evidence from the experiment to suggest he will. All we can do is hope.

We have still done embarrassing things. The plane and the attack on Lennon is embarrassing.

 

Just because it's not as bad as others have done, doesn't make it ok. His points are still valid.

 

We have been underperforming, hence us trying something different.

 

We should be comfortably above partick and saints, but remember a look back over the last 5 years would indicate that as above we have underperformed and certainly we have no right to be better than teams like these, we need to earn it again, hence the change of approach.

 

Yip, all we can do is hope!

[Nookie Bear]

I think someone said he thought tziolis showed a lack of effort and desire to compete.

Something along those lines.

McPhee, possibly?

[Rudy T]

I won't quote the Spellczech analysis again but

- Hearts fans always seem to be the ones who do embarrassing things? Yes we are always rioting in Manchester and invading the pitch and stopping the presentation after a cup final win, we always have thousands belting out sectarian and pro-terrorist crap.

- Hearts are not a big club? Obviously not in world, European or UK terms They have certainly underperformed over many years but in Scottish terms they are a big club. They are a certainly a big enough club to be comfortably ahead of Partick Thistle and St. Johnstone. I don't find ambition and impatience with failure "depressing". I find lack of ambition depressing (as in the "we don't want to qualify for Europe because we will just get beat" attitude of some)

- Who were these five good strikers? We've not had a good striker since Robbo. And even Robbo would have struggled with the lack of support up front that our potentially good strikers have suffered from in most of the post-Robbo era.

- Cathro is not an experiment that so far has failed? Even he more or less said that he was last night. I hope the failure is not sustained and he succeeds. So far there is little evidence from the experiment to suggest he will. All we can do is hope.

It's a rare thing but I feel myself agreeing with you.

 

If we accept mediocrity that's what we'll get. To say we've always been shit so trying something new to still be shit is not progress.

 

The only way to get success is to demand it. I hear nothing coming out of the club that suggests we are hell bent on challenging the Celtic never mind just catching Rangers and Aberdeen. It's all process and plans and acceptance.

 

Whether those players were good enough or not there's certainly been no pressure put on them to perform. Levein has been in the game long enough to know short term signings don't work never mind the farce of giving 3 year deals to Sammon Oshiwina and Martin.

 

You can only pee with the nob you have so don't try and get players to play a way they simply can't. Find a way they can that's what managers do.

 

We have to demand success and make sure everyone at the club knows it so they strive to achieve it. We really have become a real soft touch of a club.

[269miles]

Oh come on - there are plenty of unjustified "ITK" allegations on here. Some are clearly just made up...Others hearsay...others exactly what a DOF should be doing! Haha

 

It is surprising that we did in January 2017 exactly what Vlad did in January 2006. Vlad did it as PR. I think the purpose was a little more laudable this time, but the result has been even more destructive...

 

Imagine we hadn't beaten Gretna in the Cup Final? - what a bum season 05/06 would be regarded as...That was the year we won the SC without having to knock out either of the OF. Does this observation belittle the achievement in your eyes? 

Aside from his (non) interference in first team affairs - depending on your point of view - I don't recall any of note. In any case, whatever folks say on here won't cut any ice with AB. However I think the post match display of disaffection will have got the message across.  Hopefully.

 

You seem to be on a bit of a rant - I don't get the last bit of your post.  

 "Allegations"/rumour/innuendo/whatever - yup, that's what happens when people have free reign to express their dissatisfaction relatively anonymously. 

 

It's time to get off our knees , so to speak, admin was a long time ago , we HAVE come a long way but it is right and proper that fans ask serious questions about what is going on behind the scenes. Hopefully it will be turned around , we will sign better players (who maybe actually give a shit) and IC will become the messiah that CL told AB he was/is. 

[Jamboelite]

Aah, the playground bully has arrived. Your contrition evaporated already has it?

Says the man who tries to act as if they are superior to other Hearts fans or they just troll.

 

Give it a rest have a prawn sandwich.

[Nookie Bear]

 

We have been underperforming, hence us trying something different.

 

We should be comfortably above partick and saints, but remember a look back over the last 5 years would indicate that as above we have underperformed and certainly we have no right to be better than teams like these, we need to earn it again, hence the change of approach.

 

Yip, all we can do is hope!

From what I read, our management saw that one player didn't show the necessary desire at easter road...

 

...and promptly picked him to start the next game at Partick.

 

If that's the "change of approach" you mean then count me out because all the talk in the world will not make up for such weakness.

[Mr Sifter]

Ken. Knew it was somethin like that, couldnae be ****ed checking back tho.

 

Bit ironic I suppose tho :-)

[Bazzas right boot]

From what I read, our management saw that one player didn't show the necessary desire at easter road...

 

...and promptly picked him to start the next game at Partick.

 

If that's the "change of approach" you mean then count me out because all the talk in the world will not make up for such weakness.

If that's what you taken from last night, then fair enough.