Sturgeon shelves plan for quick second Scottish independence referendum

[SwindonJambo]

Who says that everyone who voted for independence is going to vote for the SNP after?

Considering the party is made up of left and right leaning members already.

I said in the post that it would be a tough situation to manage regardless of whether them or anyone else who might be elected. Hammering out and executing a plan for a new state with difficult public finances. Tough and unpopular decisions would be required. if it happens I just hope it's done competently.

[Space Mackerel]

You posted a meme a few days ago about Scotland's deficit only being ?2bn that was completely bollocks and made up. You can't have a go at MSM for circulating lies and then do the exact same yourself. Do you just share any old thing if it is pro-Indy no matter whether it is true or not?

So the GERS figures are true? Created by Ian Lang of the Tory Party to try and stem Devolution in Scotland.

Do you ever ever ever question anything put before your eyes and ears? Anything?

[Space Mackerel]

I said in the post that it would be a tough situation to manage regardless of whether them or anyone else who might be elected. Hammering out and executing a plan for a new state with difficult public finances. Tough and unpopular decisions would be required. if it happens I just hope it's done competently.

 

Mind them Baltic States that broke from the old USSR had a right tough time sure? All now doing alright I believe. No one saying they should rejoin Russia and I'm sure their populace hasn't any plans too either

 

Just us here in Scotland that's too stupid. We need someone to hold our hand.

[SwindonJambo]

You see the SNP might not be in government say after full Independence because we would have to hold new elections so I could for example then choose to vote very unlikely Labour- Conservative- Libdem - Green or new party that was the SNP?

 

Brexit will be tough as well.

 

I know Swindon really well so I hope Brexit doesn't have too much a impact on the town some big companies like Honda and Zurich Insurance in Swindon and it's a place I like.

 

Honda took a real sore one in the 2008/9 recession and had a production shutdown for a few months. I think they've been struggling as a company relative to the rest of the motor industry for a while. Zurich is surviving. Strangely Swindon locally voted 55% in favour of Brexit. That may be due to the mass immigration into the town, not all legal either and there's certainly local discontent. I work in Swindon but live in a village nearby, where the local authority was overwhelmingly remain.

 

The town will always be fine due to being a cut price alternative 80 miles West of looney expensive London with a fast rail link that's soon to be made even faster.

[SwindonJambo]

Mind them Baltic States that broke from the old USSR had a right tough time sure? All now doing alright I believe. No one saying they should rejoin Russia and I'm sure their populace hasn't any plans too either

Just us here in Scotland that's too stupid. We need someone to hold our hand.

I've never said and never would say we're too wee and stupid to go our own way The Baltic states, all of which I've visited were under a brutal authoritarian Communist dictatorship when they left. No one in their right mind would want to rejoin a bent state like Russia. Bad and invalid comparison to Scotland's. Since joining the EU, Latvia and Lithuania have suffered massive population losses. Estonia have done quite well.

[Space Mackerel]

Honda took a real sore one in the 2008/9 recession and had a production shutdown for a few months. I think they've been struggling as a company relative to the rest of the motor industry for a while. Zurich is surviving. Strangely Swindon locally voted 55% in favour of Brexit. That may be due to the mass immigration into the town, not all legal either and there's certainly local discontent. I work in Swindon but live in a village nearby, where the local authority was overwhelmingly remain.

 

The town will always be fine due to being a cut price alternative 80 miles West of looney expensive London with a fast rail link that's soon to be made even faster.

I know, we could do with HS2 up here but hey ho.

 

Suppose we'll just get on with eventually duelling the A9 after being neglected for so long after successive Tory and Labour governments.

[Space Mackerel]

I've never said and never would say we're too wee and stupid to go our own way The Baltic states, all of which I've visited were under a brutal authoritarian Communist dictatorship when they left. No one in their right mind would want to rejoin a bent state like Russia. Bad and invalid comparison to Scotland's. Since joining the EU, Latvia and Lithuania have suffered massive population losses. Estonia have done quite well.

Some might say we are under a brutal right wing dictator now?

[Hasselhoff]

So the GERS figures are true? Created by Ian Lang of the Tory Party to try and stem Devolution in Scotland.

Do you ever ever ever question anything put before your eyes and ears? Anything?

That's entirely why I know your meme is nonsense. I have seen the figures and the meme gets them all wrong.

 

Yes, GERS started out by a Tory but are now, after many years of alteration, acknowledged, even by the Cuthberts (the only people who nationalists trust) as being the best possible picture of how Scotland performs. It formed the base of the White Paper which was the key to independence not even two years ago but now it can be ignored? SNP's claim of Scotland being one of the richest countries in the world came from GERS figures - were you dismissing them then?

 

You need to ask yourself the same question about believing everything you read on Wings and the National. They are pulling the wool over your eyes and you have been brainwashed to not trust any other source of information.

 

I read Wings daily, including the sycophantic comments section. He picks on easy targets such as the Daily Express - that's like critiquing the Sun every day for quality journalism. He must love having people like you drooling over his every word and keeping him in a salary for just winding up the ignorant masses.

 

I also read many other sources of information from both sides and the pro-Indy side are far more deceitful in their lies and grievance hunting. I take everything I read with a pinch of salt and know which sources can be ignored, eg the Express and the Mail. If an independent Scotland is to happen, they need to be a bit more honest about the costs of such a decision.

 

Are you ok with taking 3 generations until we can grow our way back to the state of living we enjoy right now? That isn't a price worth paying just to wave a saltire and yell "Freedom!"

[SwindonJambo]

I know, we could do with HS2 up here but hey ho.

Suppose we'll just get on with eventually duelling the A9 after being neglected for so long after successive Tory and Labour governments.

Check the map. Swindon is nowhere near HS2. All they're doing is electrifying an existing conventional railway line.

 

The cost or duelling the A9 is ?3bn. There is consensus amongst Scottish business that the money would have been far better spent elsewhere such as improving capacity at Glasgow Queen Street Rail Station and electrifying and improving more lines in the Central Belt.

[SwindonJambo]

Some might say we are under a brutal right wing dictator now?

Absolute nonsense. We are free to vote them out every 5 years. There were no elections under the Soviet Communists. Theresa May is absolutely nowhere near as right wing as the dreaded Maggie T. I've never voted for that lot.

[Space Mackerel]

Check the map. Swindon is nowhere near HS2. All they're doing is electrifying an existing conventional railway line.

 

The cost or duelling the A9 is ?3bn. There is consensus amongst Scottish business that the money would have been far better spent elsewhere such as improving capacity at Glasgow Queen Street Rail Station and electrifying and improving more lines in the Central Belt.

See this is the problem, people who live down South who have no idea what infrastructure improvements have went on since the SNP came to power.

 

We have the dialling of the A9, the M8 is going through major improvements at Raith and Coatbridge plus the much needed new crossing over the Forth.

[Space Mackerel]

Absolute nonsense. We are free to vote them out every 5 years. There were no elections under the Soviet Communists. Theresa May is absolutely nowhere near as right wing as the dreaded Maggie T. I've never voted for that lot.

Thersea May is nowhere as right wing as Thatcher? That's a good yin!

 

I suppose Boris and David Davies aren't too? [emoji23][emoji23]

 

Jeez, that's how much the MSM have shifted the train of thought to vast majority now. It's frightening

[Space Mackerel]

Absolute nonsense. We are free to vote them out every 5 years. There were no elections under the Soviet Communists. Theresa May is absolutely nowhere near as right wing as the dreaded Maggie T. I've never voted for that lot.

And just how many times has Scotland got the PM it voted for in my lifetime. Once under Tony Blair.

[SwindonJambo]

See this is the problem, people who live down South who have no idea what infrastructure improvements have went on since the SNP came to power.

We have the dialling of the A9, the M8 is going through major improvements at Raith and Coatbridge plus the much needed new crossing over the Forth.

I knew about all of these improvements and I'm very pleased about them. I agree that the SNP are a far more competent devolved administration than the previous Labour one which is why they win so many votes from people who don't necessarily want full independence. I'm originally from Hamilton and I'm well aware of the Coatbridge and Raith works. I was born in Bellshill, halfway between the latter 2 and see the work in progress every time I'm up.

 

The improvement works on the railways on Queen Street and electrification of the routes into it are much scaled back on the original plan. If they had spent the ?3bn on fulfilling the original plan instead of dualling the A9, many more people would have benefited making the A9 decision a poor one. Impressive as it will be when finished, the number of people the new A9 benefits will be quite small really.

[SwindonJambo]

Thersea May is nowhere as right wing as Thatcher? That's a good yin!

I suppose Boris and David Davies aren't too? [emoji23][emoji23]

Jeez, that's how much the MSM have shifted the train of thought to vast majority now. It's frightening

Boris and David Davis ARE as right wing as Thatcher. If they don't get a good deal on Europe, they'll be gone.

[Space Mackerel]

I knew about all of these improvements and I'm very pleased about them. I agree that the SNP are a far more competent devolved administration than the previous Labour one which is why they win so many votes from people who don't necessarily want full independence. I'm originally from Hamilton and I'm well aware of the Coatbridge and Raith works. I was born in Bellshill, halfway between the latter 2 and see the work in progress every time I'm up.

 

The improvement works on the railways on Queen Street and electrification of the routes into it are much scaled back on the original plan. If they had spent the ?3bn on fulfilling the original plan instead of dualling the A9, many more people would have benefited making the A9 decision a poor one. Impressive as it will be when finished, the number of people the new A9 benefits will be quite small really.

Guess you don't use the A9 as much as me. To say that is frankly nonsense. The road is crammed with lorries and tourists, I could write a small novel based on the things I've witnessed on it including some of my own driving ****** ups, unintentional of course [emoji56]

[Space Mackerel]

Boris and David Davis ARE as right wing as Thatcher. If they don't get a good deal on Europe, they'll be gone.

They won't be getting a good deal on Europe, that's a given. Every man and their dug knows that.

[jambo lodge]

The Conservative Unionist Party were very popular in the 50's and 60's prior to the rise of the SNP, in fact. Edinburgh Council was dominated by Conservatives. Is there a link between SNP and the Tories, better believe it, its called Nationalism. The SNP are now, for the first time since devolution was introduced having to justify their income/expenditure plans. That 's a whole new ball game for them , their popularity has survived on the politics of grievance for too long.. 

[SwindonJambo]

Guess you don't use the A9 as much as me. To say that is frankly nonsense. The road is crammed with lorries and tourists, I could write a small novel based on the things I've witnessed on it including some of my own driving ****** ups, unintentional of course [emoji56]

I was last on it a couple of years ago. It will be good once it's done and definitely a lot safer. But ?3bn is a lot of money. I just hope the benefits justify the costs.

[Space Mackerel]

I was last on it a couple of years ago. It will be good once it's done and definitely a lot safer. But ?3bn is a lot of money. I just hope the benefits justify the costs.

How much is getting spent on the local train line upgrade you're on about?

[Jambos_1874]

Sturgeon  

[Space Mackerel]

For those genuinely interested in the oil projections, here they are.

 

Oil is in terminal decline and production is nowhere near previous levels.

 

The number of fields that have applied for abandonment is increasing week-on-week.

 

There are a few residual WOS fields being developed at extremely high cost to the Operators that will, when on production,raise hardly any income to the exchequer due to the favourable tax terms given to allow development.

 

Oil revenues are finished.

 

"Oil production is in terminal decline"

 

http://www.oilandgaspeople.com/news/9747/despite-cuts-big-oil-to-expand-production-into-the-20s/

[Thunderstruck]

How much is getting spent on the local train line upgrade you're on about?

I'm sure you know and I'm sure you know how the Scottish Government is funding its capital expenditure, who will reap the financial rewards and who will be paying the significant ongoing costs for the next 30+ years. Clue: it's no longer "PFI" as they changed the name

[Space Mackerel]

I'm sure you know and I'm sure you know how the Scottish Government is funding its capital expenditure, who will reap the financial rewards and who will be paying the significant ongoing costs for the next 30+ years. Clue: it's no longer "PFI" as they changed the name

I'm fairly sure they cancelled PFI and replaced it with something else a bit more "lite"

 

Mind you, the populace are more interested in the next gen TV and consumerism rather than their healthcare and public services. Thatchers alright jack lives on.

[deesidejambo]

"Oil production is in terminal decline"

 

http://www.oilandgaspeople.com/news/9747/despite-cuts-big-oil-to-expand-production-into-the-20s/

Indeed it is. The link I posted shows the actual data. I encourage all to look at it. You however don't bother.

[Space Mackerel]

Indeed it is. The link I posted shows the actual data. I encourage all to look at it. You however don't bother.

China, the US and the Former USSR/Russia have expanded their own economies through fossil fuels. Nothing to suggest is going to change in the next few years. Whatever you say.

[Space Mackerel]

Absolute nonsense. We are free to vote them out every 5 years. There were no elections under the Soviet Communists. Theresa May is absolutely nowhere near as right wing as the dreaded Maggie T. I've never voted for that lot.

Food for thought

 

 

http://evolvepolitics.com/theresa-mays-masterclass-spin-progressive-rhetoric-regressive-policies/

[deesidejambo]

China, the US and the Former USSR/Russia have expanded their own economies through fossil fuels. Nothing to suggest is going to change in the next few years. Whatever you say.

For normal people -

 

The SNP forecast of over $110 per barrel was wrong. It is currently below $50.

 

The official treasury forecast of NS oil production is In my link and is matched to actual data.

 

The unit operating costs in the NS make many fields currently uneconomic to produce, hence many fields, like Brent, are currently being abandoned.

 

The Govt is giving massive tax breaks to the oil Companies to try and keep things going, but that means income to the treasury is reduced to almost zero.

 

The Govt forecast is correct. The SNP forecast is fantasy and not grounded in reality.

 

The US and Chinese can increase production due to their massive resources of shale and coal gas which Scotland does not have.

 

SM. - keep dreaming. Aussie will believe you.

[Space Mackerel]

For normal people -

 

The SNP forecast of over $110 per barrel was wrong. It is currently below $50.

 

The official treasury forecast of NS oil production is In my link and is matched to actual data.

 

The unit operating costs in the NS make many fields currently uneconomic to produce, hence many fields, like Brent, are currently being abandoned.

 

The Govt is giving massive tax breaks to the oil Companies to try and keep things going, but that means income to the treasury is reduced to almost zero.

 

The Govt forecast is correct. The SNP forecast is fantasy and not grounded in reality.

 

The US and Chinese can increase production due to their massive resources of shale and coal gas which Scotland does not have.

 

SM. - keep dreaming. Aussie will believe you.

No doubt $113 a barrel was oil at a peak price.

 

Mind you, here's DC saying otherwise pre referendum 2014.

 

 

 

Just to show it works both ways of course.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[deesidejambo]

No doubt $113 a barrel was oil at a peak price.

 

Mind you, here's DC saying otherwise pre referendum 2014.

 

 

 

Just to show it works both ways of course.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Yes one think I can agree with you is both sides will exaggerate the benefits to their own ends.

 

However the production is what it is, the oil price is what it is, and the treasury income is what it is, and all are supported by actual data.

 

The biggest field in the NS, the flagship field, Brent, is currently being abandoned.

[Space Mackerel]

Yes one think I can agree with you is both sides will exaggerate the benefits to their own ends.

 

However the production is what it is, the oil price is what it is, and the treasury income is what it is, and all are supported by actual data.

 

The biggest field in the NS, the flagship field, Brent, is currently being abandoned.

Im assuming to live in the relatively wealthy Deeside and work in the industry?

 

Never seen a pothole there due to the proximity of Balmoral

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[JamboX2]

Decent post but I'm off the persuasion that the smaller the state then the easier it is to manage for the government.

 

Especially when Scotland has a wealth of natural resources, talent and a highly educated workforce now.

That may be so, but if as some predict there'd be cuts to spending and tax rises to transition Scotland to independence then you could see a brain drain as many young, highly mobile and capable Scots leave to find a more stable and financially stable environment. Not everyone wants to be a nation builder.

 

Equally, oil is in decline, coal is dead and fracking is almost banned. To add to that we still import energy rather than export it. I'm not so sure about that boast at the moment.

 

I actually think one area Scotland can hugely benefit from with Brexit in the UK is to set in motion a new rural economy based on localism and sustainability. A new funding mechanism and model could transform rural economic fortunes. Brexit needn't be a dead end and the EU isn't always right for small nations.

 

The argument on governance is probably true. But Scotland since 1707 has had powerful local government and now a powerful parliament and it's still blighted by the issues of generational inequalities in life chances, education and health.

[Space Mackerel]

 

Pwoud, vewy, wewy pwoud [emoji41]

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Space Mackerel]

Another excellent article from the wee ginger dug:

 

 

The law of double standards #FreeWings

by weegingerdug

Stu Campbell of Wings Over Scotland is in many ways the Marmite of Scottish politics. He's got a legion of fans, and he's got a legion of haters. I don't always agree with him, but what can't be denied is that single handedly he does considerably more for the cause of Scottish media accountability than the Independent Press Standards Organisation, the BBC Trust, and the combined complaints departments of every single Scottish newspaper. Now Stu's Wing's account has been suspended from Twitter. The suspension was allegedly after complaints from a so-called journalist who was upset that she'd been called out on insulting inaccuracies in an article she'd written for a gutter rag that passes itself off for a newspaper, and that Stu had described to her in a Tweet as "an utter disgrace".

 

Stu Campbell is rude, opinionated, loud mouthed, and often insulting, but's he's right about the Express. The article he was complaining about was a travesty of reporting which bore no relationship to the reality of the independence campaign and which was a blatant attempt to stir up the more atavistic supporters of Unionism. It was irresponsible journalism at its very worst which was a bawhair short of an incitement to violence. Stu Campbell was right to call the newspaper and the reporter who penned it out for it. He'd have been failing in his core mission if he hadn't. If Twitter is going to suspend everyone on their platform for expressing a perfectly valid opinion in a non-abusive manner, they'd be as well just to close the entire thing down.

 

What the entire episode smacks of is abuse of power by the mainstream media. Because Stu's comments were directed against a journalist who writes for a national print publication her complaints were given more attention by the heid bummers of Twitter than a complaint by a random punter. Well I say complaint. Greetin like a wee spoiled wean who's been told off for unacceptable behaviour is a more accurate description. Getting your critics removed from Twitter simply for daring to criticise you is exactly what the phrase "an utter disgrace" describes.

 

So far we've yet to see the Scottish mainstream media come to his aid. There is a marked double standard in the Scottish mainstream media when it comes to abuse. The practictioners of Unionist media are free to say what they like in print or elsewhere about the independence movement, unconstrained by anything that approaches good taste, common decency, or even reality, but any push back from independence supporters who feel that they've been traduced and insulted counts as abuse. It makes no difference how justified it may be.

 

In recent weeks we've seen allegations that STV's digital editor Stephen Daisley, who spent his online time on Twitter trolling independence supporters, was bullied and silenced by an SNP MP. Daisley was well known for making repeated unfounded accusations that the independence movement is motivated by anti-English racism, for his hauf-airsed ignorance about Scottish languages, for general snarkiness, for promoting the notorious misogynistic troll who goes by the pseudonym Brian Spanner, and for displaying a blatant right wing bias that might be acceptable in the print media but which isn't in a broadcaster with a statutory obligation to balance.

 

Daisley seemed to interpret his role as being to provoke some individual independence supporters into verbal overreactions, and then he could claim how appalling the independence movement as a whole was. Funnily enough he never does this with the more extreme and unpleasant supporters of Unionism. Poor Stephen got articles of support written in assorted newspapers and media outlets because an SNP MP complained about him, and we were all invited to sympathise with the poor dear and his struggle against the one party state tendencies of the SNP. All this transpired even though there was and is no hard evidence at all that Daisley has been sanctioned by his employers in any way at all. What his supporters were objecting to was the mere fact that one of their own had been criticised by an SNP MP.

 

We had a similar outbreak of officially sanctioned sympathy when the Conservative Unionist commentator David Torrance flounced off of Twitter in a huff. Davie is the man who is famous for being able to turn every subject into an SNPbad story. He's one of the people who propagate the insulting notion that Scottish politics have been Ulsterised. Even his report on a Donald Trump rally in the USA was turned into an attack on the SNP. It's quite a remarkable talent really. Wee Davie had made a clumsy attempt on a telly interview to fend off a Scottish Six news programme, which independence supporters immediately leapt on and ripped the pish out of in a typically Scottish way, ridiculing the idea that Scottish people can't have a telly news programme because we cannae operate cameras. David went into a beardy sulk and announced he was leaving Twitter. He got a piece in the Times to breathlessly describe the abuse he'd suffered as a Christlike martyr to the cause Scottish Unionism. But on the third day his Twitter account rose again.

 

We saw double standards in the Daily Mail's shameful "outing" of so-called cybernats and doorstepping ordinary members of the public for daring to support Scottish independence on social media. We've yet to see the same amount of attention given to the legion of foul mouthed trolls who spend their online time traducing and insulting and abusing in support of the Union. Just yesterday I blocked a troll on Twitter who claimed that the Spanish dictator Franco was more liberal than Nicola Sturgeon, a gross insult to Nicola Sturgeon, but more importantly also to the hundreds of thousands of victims of Franco's death squads and concentration camps. That was just an everyday and unremarkable occurance of a not very witty insult - but remember the paroxysms of outrage from Unionist politicians in the mainstream media when some independence supporters referred to them as quislings. Quisling was a Nazi, they pouted in horrified disgust. It's the same sort of behaviour, yet only one side is to be castigated for it.

 

As long as the double standards exist we need people like Stu Campbell. As long as the independence movement is held by the mainstream Unionist media to standards which the mainstream Unionist media refused to abide by itself, or which it doesn't expect of Unionist supporters, we need people like Stu Campbell who will fearlessly prick the bubble of their arrogance and entitlement. Get your act together Twitter. #FreeWings

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[argyjambo]

Another excellent article from the wee ginger dug:

 

 

The law of double standards #FreeWings

by weegingerdug

Stu Campbell of Wings Over Scotland is in many ways the Marmite of Scottish politics. He's got a legion of fans, and he's got a legion of haters. I don't always agree with him, but what can't be denied is that single handedly he does considerably more for the cause of Scottish media accountability than the Independent Press Standards Organisation, the BBC Trust, and the combined complaints departments of every single Scottish newspaper. Now Stu's Wing's account has been suspended from Twitter. The suspension was allegedly after complaints from a so-called journalist who was upset that she'd been called out on insulting inaccuracies in an article she'd written for a gutter rag that passes itself off for a newspaper, and that Stu had described to her in a Tweet as "an utter disgrace".

 

Stu Campbell is rude, opinionated, loud mouthed, and often insulting, but's he's right about the Express. The article he was complaining about was a travesty of reporting which bore no relationship to the reality of the independence campaign and which was a blatant attempt to stir up the more atavistic supporters of Unionism. It was irresponsible journalism at its very worst which was a bawhair short of an incitement to violence. Stu Campbell was right to call the newspaper and the reporter who penned it out for it. He'd have been failing in his core mission if he hadn't. If Twitter is going to suspend everyone on their platform for expressing a perfectly valid opinion in a non-abusive manner, they'd be as well just to close the entire thing down.

 

What the entire episode smacks of is abuse of power by the mainstream media. Because Stu's comments were directed against a journalist who writes for a national print publication her complaints were given more attention by the heid bummers of Twitter than a complaint by a random punter. Well I say complaint. Greetin like a wee spoiled wean who's been told off for unacceptable behaviour is a more accurate description. Getting your critics removed from Twitter simply for daring to criticise you is exactly what the phrase "an utter disgrace" describes.

 

So far we've yet to see the Scottish mainstream media come to his aid. There is a marked double standard in the Scottish mainstream media when it comes to abuse. The practictioners of Unionist media are free to say what they like in print or elsewhere about the independence movement, unconstrained by anything that approaches good taste, common decency, or even reality, but any push back from independence supporters who feel that they've been traduced and insulted counts as abuse. It makes no difference how justified it may be.

 

In recent weeks we've seen allegations that STV's digital editor Stephen Daisley, who spent his online time on Twitter trolling independence supporters, was bullied and silenced by an SNP MP. Daisley was well known for making repeated unfounded accusations that the independence movement is motivated by anti-English racism, for his hauf-airsed ignorance about Scottish languages, for general snarkiness, for promoting the notorious misogynistic troll who goes by the pseudonym Brian Spanner, and for displaying a blatant right wing bias that might be acceptable in the print media but which isn't in a broadcaster with a statutory obligation to balance.

 

Daisley seemed to interpret his role as being to provoke some individual independence supporters into verbal overreactions, and then he could claim how appalling the independence movement as a whole was. Funnily enough he never does this with the more extreme and unpleasant supporters of Unionism. Poor Stephen got articles of support written in assorted newspapers and media outlets because an SNP MP complained about him, and we were all invited to sympathise with the poor dear and his struggle against the one party state tendencies of the SNP. All this transpired even though there was and is no hard evidence at all that Daisley has been sanctioned by his employers in any way at all. What his supporters were objecting to was the mere fact that one of their own had been criticised by an SNP MP.

 

We had a similar outbreak of officially sanctioned sympathy when the Conservative Unionist commentator David Torrance flounced off of Twitter in a huff. Davie is the man who is famous for being able to turn every subject into an SNPbad story. He's one of the people who propagate the insulting notion that Scottish politics have been Ulsterised. Even his report on a Donald Trump rally in the USA was turned into an attack on the SNP. It's quite a remarkable talent really. Wee Davie had made a clumsy attempt on a telly interview to fend off a Scottish Six news programme, which independence supporters immediately leapt on and ripped the pish out of in a typically Scottish way, ridiculing the idea that Scottish people can't have a telly news programme because we cannae operate cameras. David went into a beardy sulk and announced he was leaving Twitter. He got a piece in the Times to breathlessly describe the abuse he'd suffered as a Christlike martyr to the cause Scottish Unionism. But on the third day his Twitter account rose again.

 

We saw double standards in the Daily Mail's shameful "outing" of so-called cybernats and doorstepping ordinary members of the public for daring to support Scottish independence on social media. We've yet to see the same amount of attention given to the legion of foul mouthed trolls who spend their online time traducing and insulting and abusing in support of the Union. Just yesterday I blocked a troll on Twitter who claimed that the Spanish dictator Franco was more liberal than Nicola Sturgeon, a gross insult to Nicola Sturgeon, but more importantly also to the hundreds of thousands of victims of Franco's death squads and concentration camps. That was just an everyday and unremarkable occurance of a not very witty insult - but remember the paroxysms of outrage from Unionist politicians in the mainstream media when some independence supporters referred to them as quislings. Quisling was a Nazi, they pouted in horrified disgust. It's the same sort of behaviour, yet only one side is to be castigated for it.

 

As long as the double standards exist we need people like Stu Campbell. As long as the independence movement is held by the mainstream Unionist media to standards which the mainstream Unionist media refused to abide by itself, or which it doesn't expect of Unionist supporters, we need people like Stu Campbell who will fearlessly prick the bubble of their arrogance and entitlement. Get your act together Twitter. #FreeWings

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Well well well, whoulda thunk it eh! Unionist trolling bad, Nat trolling good, so much for the snowflake generation who get all hissy & precious about any perceived slight or insult. I care not a shit about what is posted on twitter, I'm not on it or many other social networking sites, you might ask why.

 

IMO they are populated by the most hateful,l vicious nasty, cowardly  &useless inadequates who, had they the balls to step away from a keyboard every once in a while, might just get a sense of perspective on what ordinary people think and care about .A wee clue, most are uninterested in the cry baby reactions of the twitterati.

 

Politics is & always has been a dirty business, populated by devious  self-centred people of all political persuasions. Seems like our snowflake generation have neither the balls nor the pragmatism to inhabit the real world.

 

Far too many airy-fairy idealists in our parochial politics, wee need a lot of tough pragmatic people with a some life & business experience outside of the usual parade of party apparatchiks, researchers, lawyers etc. People who can plan ahead, foresee problems and run a country sensibly without pandering to party dogmas.

[aussieh]

Are you ok with taking 3 generations until we can grow our way back to the state of living we enjoy right now? That isn't a price worth paying just to wave a saltire and yell "Freedom!"

Utter nonsense.

 

Seriously is that all you think people want independence for, aye?

[aussieh]

That may be so, but if as some predict there'd be cuts to spending and tax rises to transition Scotland to independence then you could see a brain drain as many young, highly mobile and capable Scots leave to find a more stable and financially stable environment. Not everyone wants to be a nation builder.

Equally, oil is in decline, coal is dead and fracking is almost banned. To add to that we still import energy rather than export it. I'm not so sure about that boast at the moment.

I actually think one area Scotland can hugely benefit from with Brexit in the UK is to set in motion a new rural economy based on localism and sustainability. A new funding mechanism and model could transform rural economic fortunes. Brexit needn't be a dead end and the EU isn't always right for small nations.

The argument on governance is probably true. But Scotland since 1707 has had powerful local government and now a powerful parliament and it's still blighted by the issues of generational inequalities in life chances, education and health.

Still talking pish about oil. Saudi and Uncle Sam suffocating Russia doesn't mean our oil is in decline.

[SwindonJambo]

Well well well, whoulda thunk it eh! Unionist trolling bad, Nat trolling good, so much for the snowflake generation who get all hissy & precious about any perceived slight or insult. I care not a shit about what is posted on twitter, I'm not on it or many other social networking sites, you might ask why.

 

IMO they are populated by the most hateful,l vicious nasty, cowardly  &useless inadequates who, had they the balls to step away from a keyboard every once in a while, might just get a sense of perspective on what ordinary people think and care about .A wee clue, most are uninterested in the cry baby reactions of the twitterati.

 

Politics is & always has been a dirty business, populated by devious  self-centred people of all political persuasions. Seems like our snowflake generation have neither the balls nor the pragmatism to inhabit the real world.

 

Far too many airy-fairy idealists in our parochial politics, wee need a lot of tough pragmatic people with a some life & business experience outside of the usual parade of party apparatchiks, researchers, lawyers etc. People who can plan ahead, foresee problems and run a country sensibly without pandering to party dogmas.

Excellent post. And your point applies equally to both sides of the debate. The tough pragmatic people with real life and business experience are sorely needed, whether we're a part of the UK or not. There are a lot of flag waving idiots on both sides with no real idea of the issues. I am in no doubt that Scotland could go it alone and make a go of it. We're not too wee or too stupid. I just don't want us to. The 1st 5 years after independence if it happened would be very tough as we transitioned to our independence economy and as Jambo x 2 said above, we'd run a huge risk that the young upwardly mobile and talented would leave in droves. Not everyone is a nation builder. Life is short and people are ultimately loyal to themselves and will go where the best opportunities are.

[deesidejambo]

Still talking pish about oil. Saudi and Uncle Sam suffocating Russia doesn't mean our oil is in decline.

It's you who is talking pish. The oil forecasts show a continued production decline which is normal for a finite resource.

 

Keep spouting your nonsense though.

[JamboX2]

Still talking pish about oil. Saudi and Uncle Sam suffocating Russia doesn't mean our oil is in decline.

America has huge shale gas deposits. Its effectively self sufficient. Saudi Arabia is facing financial collapse in the next 20 years. Russia is a basket case economy being sanctioned for interventions in Europe.

 

Oil is soon going to become Scotland's past. Much like coal. It will become more expensive to extract and the revenues will slump by attempting to support it through the state.

 

Renewable sources and fracking are Scotland's industrial future. We'd be well advised as a nation to begin investing for that change sooner rather than later.

[Thunderstruck]

Still talking pish about oil. Saudi and Uncle Sam suffocating Russia doesn't mean our oil is in decline.

Did you see today's news? There is a new "oil boom" but this time it is in decommissioning the hardware in the North Sea. Hardly symptomatic of a buoyant North Sea Oil Industry.

 

Trouble is that Teeside and Norway are ahead of that game and will likely win the decommissioning contracts.

[robroy1874]

Sturgeon - worst thing to happen to Scotland since Longshanks

[Space Mackerel]

Well well well, whoulda thunk it eh! Unionist trolling bad, Nat trolling good, so much for the snowflake generation who get all hissy & precious about any perceived slight or insult. I care not a shit about what is posted on twitter, I'm not on it or many other social networking sites, you might ask why.

 

IMO they are populated by the most hateful,l vicious nasty, cowardly &useless inadequates who, had they the balls to step away from a keyboard every once in a while, might just get a sense of perspective on what ordinary people think and care about .A wee clue, most are uninterested in the cry baby reactions of the twitterati.

 

Politics is & always has been a dirty business, populated by devious self-centred people of all political persuasions. Seems like our snowflake generation have neither the balls nor the pragmatism to inhabit the real world.

 

Far too many airy-fairy idealists in our parochial politics, wee need a lot of tough pragmatic people with a some life & business experience outside of the usual parade of party apparatchiks, researchers, lawyers etc. People who can plan ahead, foresee problems and run a country sensibly without pandering to party dogmas.

The issue isn't about trolling though, it's about newspapers and their content.

[Space Mackerel]

Excellent post. And your point applies equally to both sides of the debate. The tough pragmatic people with real life and business experience are sorely needed, whether we're a part of the UK or not. There are a lot of flag waving idiots on both sides with no real idea of the issues. I am in no doubt that Scotland could go it alone and make a go of it. We're not too wee or too stupid. I just don't want us to. The 1st 5 years after independence if it happened would be very tough as we transitioned to our independence economy and as Jambo x 2 said above, we'd run a huge risk that the young upwardly mobile and talented would leave in droves. Not everyone is a nation builder. Life is short and people are ultimately loyal to themselves and will go where the best opportunities are.

You started off all sensible then finished up that everyone under 30 would desert Scotland like a sinking dingy in the med.

 

We know what kind of media you read now.

[Space Mackerel]

Did you see today's news? There is a new "oil boom" but this time it is in decommissioning the hardware in the North Sea. Hardly symptomatic of a buoyant North Sea Oil Industry.

 

Trouble is that Teeside and Norway are ahead of that game and will likely win the decommissioning contracts.

In other words...

 

Too wee and too stupid to be the North Sea scrap merchants. [emoji23]

[SwindonJambo]

You started off all sensible then finished up that everyone under 30 would desert Scotland like a sinking dingy in the med.

We know what kind of media you read now.

I didn't say definitey would, I said there was a big risk many might do. Hopefully not. Throughout Scotland's history, people have left in tough times and that's an indesputable fact. It's nothing new. I stopped buying papers years ago. I'm suspicious of all media tbqh.

[Space Mackerel]

I didn't say definitey would, I said there was a big risk many might do. Hopefully not. Throughout Scotland's history, people have left in tough times and that's an indesputable fact. It's nothing new. I stopped buying papers years ago. I'm suspicious of all media tbqh.

Funny like. I know plenty mates that have ****ed off to Oz, that must mean Britain is shite and going down the tubes for the last 40 years.

[SwindonJambo]

In other words...

Too wee and too stupid to be the North Sea scrap merchants. [emoji23]

It's not just as simple as that. Teeside and Norway both have well established facilities and capacity for breaking up obsolete vessels and have done so for a long time so are far better placed to win the work. Horses for courses. Scotland would have to build up similar facilities from virtually a standing start.

[Space Mackerel]

It's not just as simple as that. Teeside and Norway both have well established facilities and capacity for breaking up obsolete vessels and have done so for a long time so are far better placed to win the work. Horses for courses. Scotland would have to build up similar facilities from virtually a standing start.

Ken, that's why theres loads mothballed in the Cromarty Firth right now.

 

Been near there recently? ***, Invergordon? Do these places mean anything to you?

[SwindonJambo]

Ken, that's why theres loads mothballed in the Cromarty Firth right now.

Been near there recently? ***, Invergordon? Do these places mean anything to you?

Yes of course they do and I knew that! The rigs are sitting there mothballed awaiting their fate. If oil has a resurgence they'll be reused. If not they'll be taken elsewhere to be scrapped.