National rail strikes planned by RMT

[Doctor FinnBarr]

33 minutes ago, Harry Potter said:

Better avoiding works nights oot, 😬, chance of making a clown of ones self lol

 

Been there.

[Dazo]

35 minutes ago, Harry Potter said:

Better avoiding works nights oot, 😬, chance of making a clown of ones self lol

I don’t need a works night out for that HP. 😀

[Shooter McGavin]

Expecting people to give up their working conditions and accept a paycut = reasonable.

 

Expecting people to cancel their Xmas night out = NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES WHATSOEVER 😂

[Dazo]

3 minutes ago, Shooter McGavin said:

Expecting people to give up their working conditions and accept a paycut = reasonable.

 

Expecting people to cancel their Xmas night out = NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES WHATSOEVER 😂

Said no one ever. 
 

Shooter misses again. 😂

 

[Nucky Thompson]

1 minute ago, Shooter McGavin said:

Expecting people to give up their working conditions and accept a paycut = reasonable.

 

Expecting people to cancel their Xmas night out = NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES WHATSOEVER 😂

Except that those are innocent people caught up in the crossfire after 2 years of cancellations due to Covid

 

Bosses aren't playing ball, so make joe public suffer.

 

Could easily have waited until January 

[Shooter McGavin]

Just now, Dazo said:

Said no one ever. 
 

Shooter misses again. 😂

 

Certainly seems like yourself and Ol’ Nucky have more sympathy for those having their xmas doo’s cancelled.
 

I’m sure they’ll survive the terror of having to have a drink in the house, or a virtual party on Zoom 😂

[Shooter McGavin]

Just now, Nucky Thompson said:

Except that those are innocent people caught up in the crossfire after 2 years of cancellations due to Covid

 

Bosses aren't playing ball, so make joe public suffer.

 

Could easily have waited until January 

That’s ironic 😂

[Dazo]

1 minute ago, Shooter McGavin said:

Certainly seems like yourself and Ol’ Nucky have more sympathy for those having their xmas doo’s cancelled.
 

I’m sure they’ll survive the terror of having to have a drink in the house, or a virtual party on Zoom 😂

Not more just acknowledging another impact of striking Shooter. Not judging either way. 

[The Real Maroonblood]

1 minute ago, Shooter McGavin said:

Certainly seems like yourself and Ol’ Nucky have more sympathy for those having their xmas doo’s cancelled.
 

I’m sure they’ll survive the terror of having to have a drink in the house, or a virtual party on Zoom 😂

Thoughts and prayers to those missing their Works Xmas parties. 

[Harry Potter]

53 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

Thoughts and prayers to those missing their Works Xmas parties. 

Ach well, no hangover, no memory loss, guilt ha ha.

[The Real Maroonblood]

11 minutes ago, Harry Potter said:

Ach well, no hangover, no memory loss, guilt ha ha.

😄👍

[IronJambo]

2 hours ago, Dazo said:

Not more just acknowledging another impact of striking Shooter. Not judging either way. 

I'd be surprised if it had that big an impact in Edinburgh. It's not like there isn't a great bus service. 

 

If someone's taking a train home they're probably not out very late either.

[fabienleclerq]

11 hours ago, Dazo said:

Not more just acknowledging another impact of striking Shooter. Not judging either way. 

 

Of course there's impact on the punters, the service they get isn't good enough. It wasn't good enough before the strikes, I was at scotrail and they cancel trains saying no staff while we were on the train ready to go etc.

 

 

[Unknown user]

15 hours ago, Nucky Thompson said:

Except that those are innocent people caught up in the crossfire after 2 years of cancellations due to Covid

 

Bosses aren't playing ball, so make joe public suffer.

 

Could easily have waited until January 

 

It's always fascinating to see who needs to put their own interests aside, and for whom, in your world nuckers.

[Nucky Thompson]

4 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

It's always fascinating to see who needs to put their own interests aside, and for whom, in your world nuckers.

I don't use the train Smithee, so it's not self interest on my part.

 

I just don't see why members of the public need to be punished at this time of the year.

 

Any support they had from the public will be well and truly eroded 

[ArcticJambo]

I'd like to use the train but it's generally too expensive. Can't see it getting any cheaper, ergo ohh well!

[Unknown user]

42 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

I don't use the train Smithee, so it's not self interest on my part.

 

I just don't see why members of the public need to be punished at this time of the year.

 

Any support they had from the public will be well and truly eroded 

 

I didn't say it was self interest, just that it's fascinating to see who you expect to be selfless and who can't be expected to put self interest aside.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

Unite & Unison members of NHS Scotland have accepted an average pay rise of 7.5%, this ends the prospect of strike action from members of these two unions.  Ballots involving the GMB, Royal College of Nursing & the Chartered Society of Physiotherapy are still ongoing.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-63947246

[Maroon Sailor]

 

[Notts1874]

I'm not being sentimental..... spends the next five minutes being sentimental. 

[ri Alban]

6 minutes ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

Richard Madeley was his usual pouncie self. In fact he was a total arsehole, who thinks he's the news, instead of letting the folk know what the person has to say. 

 

Lynch should have just walked away.

[Japan Jambo]

8 minutes ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

 

Heard him knocking about Michelle on the Radio 4 Today program this morning too. When will these journo's understand that they need to do some homework before they engage with him? You can agree or disagree with him all you want but at this stage the very least that should be obvious is that he is 100% across his subject and belligerent in his execution. 

[Maroon Sailor]

3 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

Heard him knocking about Michelle on the Radio 4 Today program this morning too. When will these journo's understand that they need to do some homework before they engage with him? You can agree or disagree with him all you want but at this stage the very least that should be obvious is that he is 100% across his subject and belligerent in his execution. 

 

Richard Madeley is a waste of time when it comes to these type of interviews. He gets rattled too easily, same with Susanna Reid who tries to act like she is a Morgan or Paxman.

[Shooter McGavin]

20 minutes ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

Why don’t the rail bosses show some Christmas kindness and give their staff a much needed pay rise, and not strip away their working conditions?

 

Maybe the CEO could show some Christmas kindness and donate some of his £590,000 salary to the workers who generate that level of wealth?

[Maroon Sailor]

Can someone tell me when Christmas starts ?

[maroondevo52]

The 12 days of Christmas start on Christmas Day.

[theshed]

42 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Richard Madeley was his usual pouncie self. In fact he was a total arsehole, who thinks he's the news, instead of letting the folk know what the person has to say. 

 

Lynch should have just walked away.

Did I hear Madeley tell Lynch to jog on 😂😂

[The Real Maroonblood]

1 hour ago, Maroon Sailor said:

Can someone tell me when Christmas starts ?

The quicker it's over the better. 

[Japan Jambo]

1 hour ago, Maroon Sailor said:

Can someone tell me when Christmas starts ?

 

lol. Businesses are being impacted now and it is fair to say that for the hospitality sector December is hugely important. Churlish to argue the semantics, peoples livelihoods are being impacted.

[The Hogfather]

Richard Madeley is a rubber faced Tory shill. I don't imagine it's too hard to take someone with his ego and lack of self awareness down a few pegs. 

[Maroon Sailor]

1 hour ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

lol. Businesses are being impacted now and it is fair to say that for the hospitality sector December is hugely important. Churlish to argue the semantics, peoples livelihoods are being impacted.

 

Who's arguing? 

 

Does it start when Richard Madeley says so?

[Japan Jambo]

37 minutes ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

Who's arguing? 

 

Does it start when Richard Madeley says so?

 

Don't give two shits for his view 😁

[Notts1874]

Just listened to the interview on the Today programme. These interviewers really should do their homework 😂😂😂

[ri Alban]

3 hours ago, Shooter McGavin said:

Why don’t the rail bosses show some Christmas kindness and give their staff a much needed pay rise, and not strip away their working conditions?

 

Maybe the CEO could show some Christmas kindness and donate some of his £590,000 salary to the workers who generate that level of wealth?

He denied what ML said when he was interviewed after ML. No such ranting from the government lackeys at GMB/BBC breakfast/Sky News .

[ri Alban]

3 hours ago, theshed said:

Did I hear Madeley tell Lynch to jog on 😂😂

Yes 🤣 He doesn't know what it means.

 

He also called Andrew (Pearce), Neil. He's lost his faculties, he should run for PM. 

[Homme]

I'm getting quite bored of the bi-daily emails from Andrew Haines, Alex Hynes and their little puppy Tim Shoveller. 

 

The latest is that staff have turned down more than what nurses accepted. No mention of terms and conditions for this lot, they think it's all about pay.

[ri Alban]

The media keep telling folk the lie, that the RMT workers were offered 9% pay rise. No they weren't, it was 4.5 %.  And as Kevin (Mirror) said," if they want to say it's 9%, inflation is 22% or 28%"

[Victorian]

Alan Sugar can **** right off anaw.  Making arsey personal comments about Mick Lynch contributes nothing whatsoever.

 

The government continues to conduct a bad faith,  bogus campaign to a valid and solvable dispute.  It chooses to act in bad faith as a political choice.

[Shooter McGavin]

39 minutes ago, Victorian said:

Alan Sugar can **** right off anaw.  Making arsey personal comments about Mick Lynch contributes nothing whatsoever.

 

The government continues to conduct a bad faith,  bogus campaign to a valid and solvable dispute.  It chooses to act in bad faith as a political choice.

You know you’ve made the right choice supporting Mick Lynch when gaslighting c**** like Piers Morgan , Richard Madeley and Alan Sugar are in the opposite corner corner.

[IronJambo]

1 hour ago, ri Alban said:

The media keep telling folk the lie, that the RMT workers were offered 9% pay rise. No they weren't, it was 4.5 %.  And as Kevin (Mirror) said," if they want to say it's 9%, inflation is 22% or 28%"

It was 4% for this year and 4% for next year they offered the TOCS. What our transport wally fails to mention were the impossible conditions attached:

 

 

[Victorian]

10 minutes ago, Shooter McGavin said:

You know you’ve made the right choice supporting Mick Lynch when gaslighting c**** like Piers Morgan , Richard Madeley and Alan Sugar are in the opposite corner corner.

 

You expect utter bags of shite like Morgan and Madeley to be oblivious to the basic concept of wages and the rising cost of living.  Alan Sugar should know better than to demean the working person and their representatives.

[Notts1874]

5 minutes ago, IronJambo said:

It was 4% for this year and 4% for next year they offered the TOCS. What our transport wally fails to mention were the impossible conditions attached:

 

 

The thought of driver only trains is absurd. 

 

I was on a train back, it was actually the Monday, after the Cup Final, that had somebody jump in front of the train. 

 

The train staff were amazing. Comforting people, handing out free water etc. Imagine the driver having to do that after an incident like that. 

[The Hogfather]

1 hour ago, Victorian said:

Alan Sugar can **** right off anaw.  Making arsey personal comments about Mick Lynch contributes nothing whatsoever.

 

The government continues to conduct a bad faith,  bogus campaign to a valid and solvable dispute.  It chooses to act in bad faith as a political choice.

 

Another Tory shill. 

[Japan Jambo]

21 minutes ago, IronJambo said:

It was 4% for this year and 4% for next year they offered the TOCS. What our transport wally fails to mention were the impossible conditions attached:

 

 

 

presume that's the same one we chatted about the other day IJ. Is there a link to a public document, I'd like to share it?

[IronJambo]

1 hour ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

presume that's the same one we chatted about the other day IJ. Is there a link to a public document, I'd like to share it?

It is yes, there's been no other offer since then.

 

Here's a link to RDG's public statement https://media.raildeliverygroup.com/news/employers-offer-rmt-a-framework-agreement-to-end-national-dispute-and-save-christmas

 

And here's a full copy and paste of what was sent out to RMT members with details of the Network Rail offer also. This is the same text as the email I've previously partially posted screenshots of but it does look slightly different as it was much simpler to rip it from WhatsApp:

 

Dear RMT Members

 

DEFEND JOBS, PAY AND CONDITIONS - TRAIN OPERATING COMPANIES & NETWORK RAIL

 

Offers have been tabled by both the Rail Delivery Group - which represents the 14 Train Operating Companies - and Network Rail over the weekend with the aim to resolve the ongoing and long-running national rail dispute. A summary of both sets of proposals are as follows:

 

TRAIN OPERATORS

A number of meetings have taken place between RMT and the Rail Delivery Group (RDG) in order to develop a proposal that we could put to our members as a potential way of resolving the current dispute.

 

This process has culminated with the RDG finally being given a mandate by the DfT, that was presented to RMT today (Sunday 4th December 2022). The proposals followed extensive discussions with the RDG including at Government Ministerial level. The mandate provided by the DfT is the basis of the RDG proposals.

 

These proposals set out a two-year pay package which provides 4% increases for years 2022 & 2023. These are way below the current and predicted future rates of inflation and equate to a 20% pay cut.

A conditional no compulsory redundancy commitment is set out, but only until 1st April 2024.

 

The proposals are also conditional on your union accepting the following:

1.         That all Workforce Changes are accepted without reservation or industrial action;

2.         Closure of all ticket offices and displacement of all retail staff;

3.         Creation of a new multi-skilled station grades;

4.         A mass job severance programme;

5.         Driver-Only Operation of trains in all companies and on all passenger services;

6.         New arrangements for mandatory Sunday working;

7.         A review of all On-Train Catering services leading to cutbacks in provision and jobs;

8.         Review of Fleet grades' working practices and depot driving;

9.         Flexible working contracts, working and rosters;

10.       Mandatory adoption of new technology with no payment;

11.       New Attendance Management scheme;

12.       Review of Stood Off arrangements;

13.       New annual leave and sick pay arrangements.

 

Your union's National Executive Committee is of the view that these proposals are not acceptable and believe that the RDG knew this was the case when they made the proposals. Therefore, your NEC has instructed me to immediately inform the RDG of this Union's rejection of the proposals and to demand an urgent meeting with the RDG tomorrow (Monday 5th December), with this matter to be placed back before this NEC immediately following that meeting.

 

NETWORK RAIL

Proposals

 

PAY 2022

·         A minimum uplift of a consolidated £1,750 or a 5% increase (whichever is greater) up to a maximum uplift of £3,500 to the annual base rates of pay effective from 01 January 2022

·         Back pay for annual base pay, shift, and overtime, will be paid on the first possible pay day following acceptance of this offer

Pay 2023

·         4% increase to the annual base rates of pay effective from 01 January 2023

No Compulsory Redundancy

·         No compulsory redundancies for general grades and bands 5-8 until 31 January 2025

·         Voluntary redundancy scheme to be opened to Section Planners and Section Admin before 31 March 2023

Privileged Staff Travel

·         Discretionary privileged leisure travel which provides a 75% discount on all leisure travel and includes family members.

Season ticket subsidy

·         The season ticket subsidy cap of £2,750 will be removed and a discount of 75% uncapped will be applied for the total cost of the season ticket

Colleagues on Role Clarity contracts:

·         The usual practice of using performance ratings to distribute pay increases will not be applied for 2022 or 2023

·         We will revise the top and bottom of the salary bands by the percentage increases offered

·         For colleagues who have reached the maximum of the revised salary band, salary increases will be made as a one-off, non-consolidated payment

Maintenance & Works Delivery (Construction Services) Standard Contract

·         For colleagues employed on a contract other than IMC 25 Carillion/GTRM: o One-off voluntary opt-in window (dates to be confirmed) for Operatives/Technicians/Team Leaders to transfer to the equivalent standard (IMC 25 GTRM/Carillion) contract

·         On promotion, current Operatives/Technicians to be offered choice of the standard (IMC 025 GTRM/Carillion) contract or next grade IMC contract applicable to them.

 

There are further conditions relating to our consultation with the members and the scheduled industrial action.

 

In summary, the Government has forced the RDG to make a proposal that everyone in the industry knows is not going to be acceptable. Your union is now demanding an urgent meeting tomorrow to address the issues.

 

The scheduled industrial action remains in place and the RMT National Executive Committee will consider both offers tomorrow afternoon following the meeting with RDG.

 

I will of course update you with any further developments.

Yours sincerely 

Mick Lynch

 

 

[IronJambo]

1 hour ago, Notts1874 said:

The thought of driver only trains is absurd. 

 

I was on a train back, it was actually the Monday, after the Cup Final, that had somebody jump in front of the train. 

 

The train staff were amazing. Comforting people, handing out free water etc. Imagine the driver having to do that after an incident like that. 

A great point which is overlooked by many. I've usually got anywhere between 1 & 4 customer hosts on my train and they can look after customers in such a situation. The driver is my priority along with just making regular announcements. Every driver reacts differently to a fatality but they really should have someone by their side ASAP if it's possible. 

 

I've seen too many safety videos with customers decanting themselves from broken down trains onto running lines because of the lack of information or anyone to keep them calm. Any increase in DOO just means that will happen more often with more people dying on the railways as a result. 

[ri Alban]

2 hours ago, IronJambo said:

It was 4% for this year and 4% for next year they offered the TOCS. What our transport wally fails to mention were the impossible conditions attached:

 

 

The guy from Network rail? Denied that was happening, this morning.

[ri Alban]

According to the network rail? guy this morning, the trains have had one driver since the 80s and that's proof that it's safe. He's a real tosser.

[IronJambo]

9 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

The guy from Network rail? Denied that was happening, this morning.

The 9% you mentioned earlier is in here for the network rail staff. 4% + 5% or the other way around. The offer went to a ballot and was rejected by the members with around two thirds of staff voting against.

[IronJambo]

21 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

According to the network rail? guy this morning, the trains have had one driver since the 80s and that's proof that it's safe. He's a real tosser.

There are many driver only services and usually it's fine. I'm not going to say it's unsafe. 

 

Extension of driver only services is a dangerous road to go down though. Trap and drag incidents where someone gets their hand/coat/bag caught in a door and they get pulled down the platform (or further) are more common in this method of working (almost nullified with a guard).

Little or no communication from a driver during disruption or after an accident can cause panic emergency evacuations onto running lines where they've a risk of being hit by an oncoming train unawares and there may also be electricity powering 3rd rails (750 volts DC) or overhead wires (25,000 volts AC). If you imagine your by a straight part of track, it takes something like 25 or 30 seconds for a train travelling at 125mph to come into sight and disappear out of sight. I guess that's 12-15 seconds to get out the way if you even see it coming.

 

Common assault and sexual assault are also much more prevalent on driver only services. People feel and generally are safer on trains with staff on them.