National rail strikes planned by RMT

[AlimOzturk]

This is going to run and run and eventually I can see the government using this as an excuse to ban striking and make unions illegal. 
 

That “deal” above is utterly pathetic and rightly rejected. 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Hard to see how this is going to end. Starting to wonder now if the government will simply let it ride until RMT can no longer afford strike pay and the loss of wages starts to bite. Doesn’t seem to be any other strategy

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

56 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

This is going to run and run and eventually I can see the government using this as an excuse to ban striking and make unions illegal. 
 

That “deal” above is utterly pathetic and rightly rejected. 

The government would love to do that but they won’t be able to. I think what they’ll do is tighten the rules (unfairly) to make legal strikes harder to call.

 

The railways are the worst service in the UK bar none and the only people to blame for that are governments and the corporate companies who run rail services. I heard someone say the other day, there can’t be another business in the world which sells so many things that don’t actually exist (ie cancelled trains). They deserve to go bust and they only exist because a national infrastructure needs passenger trains 

[AlimOzturk]

1 hour ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Hard to see how this is going to end. Starting to wonder now if the government will simply let it ride until RMT can no longer afford strike pay and the loss of wages starts to bite. Doesn’t seem to be any other strategy

 

1 hour ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

The government would love to do that but they won’t be able to. I think what they’ll do is tighten the rules (unfairly) to make legal strikes harder to call.

 

The railways are the worst service in the UK bar none and the only people to blame for that are governments and the corporate companies who run rail services. I heard someone say the other day, there can’t be another business in the world which sells so many things that don’t actually exist (ie cancelled trains). They deserve to go bust and they only exist because a national infrastructure needs passenger trains 

This is the problem. The government kinda have them in a corner - they can afford to ride it out but can the unions and ordinary folk keep affording the sticker action as you say. The strikes will only be supported by the public for so long. The headlines read they reject pay increase but make no mention of the conditions of said pay increase. 
 

I have been hugely disappointed in Labours silence in these disputes. They have not supported the strikes nor said they are against them. They should be rallying behind them but this incarnation of Labour are trying to appeal to the middle ground and can’t be seen to support strikers. 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

12 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

 

This is the problem. The government kinda have them in a corner - they can afford to ride it out but can the unions and ordinary folk keep affording the sticker action as you say. The strikes will only be supported by the public for so long. The headlines read they reject pay increase but make no mention of the conditions of said pay increase. 
 

I have been hugely disappointed in Labours silence in these disputes. They have not supported the strikes nor said they are against them. They should be rallying behind them but this incarnation of Labour are trying to appeal to the middle ground and can’t be seen to support strikers. 

Labour don’t really represent anyone. They just want people to vote for them but unfortunately, trying to satisfy everyone usually involves committing to nothing. It’s a lame strategy and while they’ll win the next election, they’re winning support via the default of not being the worst Tory government ever.

 

We rapidly need to move away from the idea that supporting strikes means supporting unions. It’s more a case of supporting employees who feel they deserve better (and in these cases, it’s very difficult to argue). 
 

Get the feeling though that the government’s attitude is - so many things are completely ****ed so why try to fix any of it? What’s the difference between three strikes and 10 strikes? 

[theshed]

1 hour ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Hard to see how this is going to end. Starting to wonder now if the government will simply let it ride until RMT can no longer afford strike pay and the loss of wages starts to bite. Doesn’t seem to be any other strategy

Trying to starve the workers back by looks of things. Government don’t care how much this is costing them so look like they want to hang it out till rail workers have to go back as they are skint 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

3 hours ago, theshed said:

Trying to starve the workers back by looks of things. Government don’t care how much this is costing them so look like they want to hang it out till rail workers have to go back as they are skint 

It won’t be costing the government much. They pick up the tab for shambolic rail firms but it all gets lost in the mess of the public finances. No skin off their nose if people’s travel is disrupted 

[IronJambo]

The union have forwarded Network Rails offer to it's members with a recommendation to reject.

 

They've also just announced more strike days for Network rail staff. They've been instructed not to work for book ons between:

 

24th December at 18:00 and 05:59 on 27th December. 

[William H. Bonney]

10 minutes ago, IronJambo said:

The union have forwarded Network Rails offer to it's members with a recommendation to reject.

 

They've also just announced more strike days for Network rail staff. They've been instructed not to work for book ons between:

 

24th December at 18:00 and 05:59 on 27th December. 

 

My union(TSSA) have sent out ballot papers too. 

[IronJambo]

1 minute ago, William H. Bonney said:

 

My union(TSSA) have sent out ballot papers too. 

Is that a new one or a re-ballot?

[William H. Bonney]

4 minutes ago, IronJambo said:

Is that a new one or a re-ballot?

 

Yeah, first one was back in June. We haven't had more than 2 strike days since I think. Probably won't happen til early next year as papers have to be in by 22nd December.  

No overtime though starting on 13th December.  

However,  in my department, I'm only one of 2 members of TSSA.  Everyone else is RMT.  

[Dennis Reynolds]

 

 

[frankblack]

4 minutes ago, Dennis Reynolds said:

 

 

 

Its a vindictive way of shafting your customers.  If the unions are making unacceptable demands then there will come a stage where jobs will go and anti-strike legislation is drafted.

[IronJambo]

8 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Its a vindictive way of shafting your customers.  If the unions are making unacceptable demands then there will come a stage where jobs will go and anti-strike legislation is drafted.

It's the government that's shafting everyone. Not the union or striking staff.

[Dennis Reynolds]

9 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Its a vindictive way of shafting your customers.  If the unions are making unacceptable demands then there will come a stage where jobs will go and anti-strike legislation is drafted.

 

I don't think there's many passenger trains running Christmas day or boxing day so not sure how they are shafting customers tbh.

[IronJambo]

40 minutes ago, Dennis Reynolds said:

 

I don't think there's many passenger trains running Christmas day or boxing day so not sure how they are shafting customers tbh.

It's Christmas Eve services and those on the 27th it'll effect. Eg. I'm scheduled to work from Paddington to Swansea and back (returning around 8pm). This is impossible with that strike.

 

Passenger services will need to stop running by 4pm or thereabouts on the 24th now and it will be a slow start up on the 27th as most of the trains will be displaced.

[Guest]

Mick Grinch

[Dennis Reynolds]

8 minutes ago, IronJambo said:

It's Christmas Eve services and those on the 27th it'll effect. Eg. I'm scheduled to work from Paddington to Swansea and back (returning around 8pm). This is impossible with that strike.

 

Passenger services will need to stop running by 4pm or thereabouts on the 24th now and it will be a slow start up on the 27th as most of the trains will be displaced.

 

Do they not wind down fairly early on Christmas Eve anyway? It's been a while since I've travelled that close to Christmas.

[IronJambo]

14 minutes ago, Dennis Reynolds said:

 

Do they not wind down fairly early on Christmas Eve anyway? It's been a while since I've travelled that close to Christmas.

Yeah they do but 10pm early, not 4pm.

 

I already mentioned Swansea so I'll stick with that as an example.

 

The latest Paddington - Swansea on the 24th is scheduled at 19:48, arriving at 22:31.

 

With the strike that and the 7 or 8 services beforehand to that location won't/can't run and the last one to make it would be leaving Paddington at around 13:00/14:00

[Dennis Reynolds]

16 minutes ago, IronJambo said:

Yeah they do but 10pm early, not 4pm.

 

I already mentioned Swansea so I'll stick with that as an example.

 

The latest Paddington - Swansea on the 24th is scheduled at 19:48, arriving at 22:31.

 

With the strike that and the 7 or 8 services beforehand to that location won't/can't run and the last one to make it would be leaving Paddington at around 13:00/14:00

 

 

 

Now I'm confused?

[IronJambo]

20 minutes ago, Dennis Reynolds said:

 

 

 

Now I'm confused?

It's the same as any other strike from network rail staff. Signalling is effected. No signallers means no trains.

 

Only management taking over the signalling will keep trains running. Trains would still be effected.

[Dennis Reynolds]

25 minutes ago, IronJambo said:

It's the same as any other strike from network rail staff. Signalling is effected. No signallers means no trains.

 

Only management taking over the signalling will keep trains running. Trains would still be effected.

 

 

 

 

🤷‍♂️

 

I'll be sitting in the pub Christmas Eve so won't effect me, I'm more just trying to work out if the media are making this out as some sort of armageddon like scenario when it isn't in fact like that. Which it seems they are.

[frankblack]

3 hours ago, Dennis Reynolds said:

 

I don't think there's many passenger trains running Christmas day or boxing day so not sure how they are shafting customers tbh.

 

Those travelling to stay with family over Christmas won't be able to do so with no public transport.

 

Many might find existing bookings cancelled.  I'm sure they will be sympathetic to the unions. 🤔

Edited December 6, 2022 by frankblack

[AlimOzturk]

2 hours ago, frankblack said:

 

Those travelling to stay with family over Christmas won't be able to do so with no public transport.

 

Many might find existing bookings cancelled.  I'm sure they will be sympathetic to the unions. 🤔

The unions aren’t to blame.  The pathetic offer from network rail/government is what the problem is. 
 

Unions ballot their members, they give them a recommendation but ultimately if their members vote to accept then they have to accept. 
 

How can the unions and members be blamed for not accepting redundancy and real term pay cuts?  **** them. And whilst it is a pain in the arse for the public, this is about survival for the lowest paid and those at risk of losing their jobs. 
 

There will be a small minority of the public who will be unhappy but ultimately the majority will support the strikes. 

[IronJambo]

5 hours ago, frankblack said:

 

Those travelling to stay with family over Christmas won't be able to do so with no public transport.

 

Many might find existing bookings cancelled.  I'm sure they will be sympathetic to the unions. 🤔

It's the government to blame, not the unions. 

[IronJambo]

7 hours ago, Dennis Reynolds said:

 

 

 

 

🤷‍♂️

 

I'll be sitting in the pub Christmas Eve so won't effect me, I'm more just trying to work out if the media are making this out as some sort of armageddon like scenario when it isn't in fact like that. Which it seems they are.

The RMT tweeter is both right and wrong. I only just got my head around it. Reading between the lines the strike is primarily aimed at messing up track maintenance over the period. It's lost on whoever is tweeting that it's going to effect services either side.

 

People just like a moan though 🤷. I'm going to be driving into London for work on the 24th or I risk being stranded and I'll need to drive in on the 27th to get their on time as well. I don't see the drama when people have time to make other arrangements.

 

Edit: another thought is their shift patterns. It may not effect trains if those signallers booking on for late shifts are doing so before 18:00. A shift starting at 17:30 for example, would be worked through by that union member in its entirety. 

Edited December 6, 2022 by IronJambo

[Dazo]

57 minutes ago, IronJambo said:

The RMT tweeter is both right and wrong. I only just got my head around it. Reading between the lines the strike is primarily aimed at messing up track maintenance over the period. It's lost on whoever is tweeting that it's going to effect services either side.

 

People just like a moan though 🤷. I'm going to be driving into London for work on the 24th or I risk being stranded and I'll need to drive in on the 27th to get their on time as well. I don't see the drama when people have time to make other arrangements.

 

Edit: another thought is their shift patterns. It may not effect trains if those signallers booking on for late shifts are doing so before 18:00. A shift starting at 17:30 for example, would be worked through by that union member in its entirety. 

Striking messing up planned maintenance/improvement works, who gives a shit eh. Not like these things were planned well in advance to the benefit of all involved. A striker that doesn’t see the drama striking causes for other people. I’m shocked IJ. 😂

 

 

[Nucky Thompson]

10 hours ago, Jonkel Hoon said:

Mick Grinch

Another prick who loves to get his face on the tv.

 

 

[Dboy]

Directly affected with outward journey before the strike and return on strike day.  Not overjoyed, but accept the workers right to strike.   Will drive instead.  Now to try and get money back for both journeys.

[Shooter McGavin]

Why won’t people just accept their working conditions being decimated, and their wages being slashed, during the worst cost of living crisis in half a century?

 

[The Real Maroonblood]

39 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

Another prick who loves to get his face on the tv.

 

 

[IronJambo]

1 hour ago, Dazo said:

Striking messing up planned maintenance/improvement works, who gives a shit eh. Not like these things were planned well in advance to the benefit of all involved. A striker that doesn’t see the drama striking causes for other people. I’m shocked IJ. 😂

 

 

It's my colleagues and I that are out of pocket pal. Cycle, take a bus, drive, get a cab.  Use a hoverboard for all it matters to me. 

 

If striking didn't cause any sort of inconvenience there would be no point in doing so. You can thank your Tory pals.

 

[The Real Maroonblood]

3 minutes ago, IronJambo said:

It's my colleagues and I that are out of pocket pal. Cycle, take a bus, drive, get a cab.  Use a hoverboard for all it matters to me. 

 

If striking didn't cause any sort of inconvenience there would be no point in doing so. You can thank your Tory pals.

 

[Pans Jambo]

1 hour ago, Nucky Thompson said:

Another prick who loves to get his face on the tv.

 

 

Not sure its him who's the "prick" TBH.

[Pans Jambo]

12 minutes ago, IronJambo said:

It's my colleagues and I that are out of pocket pal. Cycle, take a bus, drive, get a cab.  Use a hoverboard for all it matters to me. 

 

If striking didn't cause any sort of inconvenience there would be no point in doing so. You can thank your Tory pals.

 

THIS!!!

[Pans Jambo]

1 hour ago, Shooter McGavin said:

Why won’t people just accept their working conditions being decimated, and their wages being slashed, during the worst cost of living crisis in half a century?

 

Aye, get the workers who create the wealth back in their box and accept the dross they're getting dished out whilst the CEO, the board and the stock holders get nice big fat dividends!

 

What did unions and strikes ever do for us?

 

[Pans Jambo]

The usual lapdug tory tossers are on here with their deviant viewpoints about workers versus their masters and how the people just need to bend to their overlords will, and everything will be fine. Same as they do.

 

Bet they would be the first to greet if they lost:

 

Health and Safety at work

Right to refuse unsafe work

Pension provision

Minimum wage

Holiday pay

Sickness Pay

Working hours

Maternity pay

redundancy rights

 

Etc. etc. etc.

 

All hard fought and won by unions and strikers.

 

But auld Mary cant get the train to Preston to see her grandson at Christmas though eh! That's what's important to the lapdugs!

 

Theyre not even asking for an "inflation busting" (Daily Mail headline) pay rise! Just a reasonable one, some job security and to work safely.

 

Too much to ask? Is if you're a lapdug tory!

 

Mon the workers!

Edited December 6, 2022 by Pans Jambo

[il Duce McTarkin]

All the lefties just seem so angry all of the time. Can't be good for them.

[Pans Jambo]

33 minutes ago, Dirk McTarkin said:

All the lefties just seem so angry all of the time. Can't be good for them.

Deflect, deflect, deflect...

[Japan Jambo]

54 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

The usual lapdug tory tossers are on here with their deviant viewpoints about workers versus their masters and how the people just need to bend to their overlords will, and everything will be fine. Same as they do.

 

Bet they would be the first to greet if they lost:

 

Health and Safety at work

Right to refuse unsafe work

Pension provision

Minimum wage

Holiday pay

Sickness Pay

Working hours

Maternity pay

redundancy rights

 

Etc. etc. etc.

 

All hard fought and won by unions and strikers.

 

But auld Mary cant get the train to Preston to see her grandson at Christmas though eh! That's what's important to the lapdugs!

 

Theyre not even asking for an "inflation busting" (Daily Mail headline) pay rise! Just a reasonable one, some job security and to work safely.

 

Too much to ask? Is if you're a lapdug tory!

 

Mon the workers!

 

Should also be important for anyone with one iota of compassion for Mary and her ilk and for those with even a modicum of perspective with regards to customer service. The trains exist because they carry out a vital service, namely to get folks around, tis for that reason that they are heavily subsidised from the public purse. Their primarily function is not as a job creation scheme.

 

All that said as per my earlier exchange with IJ there is a hell of a lot wrong with that offer and all stakeholders need considered. I really don't think foaming at the mouth and rounding on the customer helps anyone.🤷‍♂️

 

As an aside my mum has also cancelled her trip to see her grandson a week Friday. While Mrs JJ would like to extend her warmest thanks to Mick and the squad for sparing her a 'royal' visit I'm left picking up the pieces as she is pretty distraught that yet again festive plans are nixed.

 

[Pans Jambo]

24 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

Should also be important for anyone with one iota of compassion for Mary and her ilk and for those with even a modicum of perspective with regards to customer service. The trains exist because they carry out a vital service, namely to get folks around, tis for that reason that they are heavily subsidised from the public purse. Their primarily function is not as a job creation scheme.

 

All that said as per my earlier exchange with IJ there is a hell of a lot wrong with that offer and all stakeholders need considered. I really don't think foaming at the mouth and rounding on the customer helps anyone.🤷‍♂️

 

As an aside my mum has also cancelled her trip to see her grandson a week Friday. While Mrs JJ would like to extend her warmest thanks to Mick and the squad for sparing her a 'royal' visit I'm left picking up the pieces as she is pretty distraught that yet again festive plans are nixed.

 

The workers don't exist to be wage slaves for the share holders though. Mary and her ilk would be better served if the owners were more reasonable and the government were less obstinate.

 

The workers are not the blame here. At all.

[Fxxx the SPFL]

6 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

The workers don't exist to be wage slaves for the share holders though. Mary and her ilk would be better served if the owners were more reasonable and the government were less obstinate.

 

The workers are not the blame here. At all.

you should have auditioned for the Wolfie Smith role. The Pans Popular Front

 

tongue in cheek by the way.

 

Edited December 6, 2022 by Fxxx the SPFL

[Pans Jambo]

1 minute ago, **** the SPFL said:

you should have auditioned for the Wolfie Smith role. The Pans Popular Front

 

tongue in cheek by the way

Thanks comrade

[frankblack]

6 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

The workers don't exist to be wage slaves for the share holders though. Mary and her ilk would be better served if the owners were more reasonable and the government were less obstinate.

 

The workers are not the blame here. At all.

 

Those train drivers on £50k+ are really suffering.

[Dennis Reynolds]

1 minute ago, frankblack said:

 

Those train drivers on £50k+ are really suffering.

 

The RMT doesn't represent train drivers. It's mental how often this needs to be said.

[Pans Jambo]

1 minute ago, frankblack said:

 

Those train drivers on £50k+ are really suffering.

Are they ALL train drivers Frank? All of them on £50K+?

 

What if they were on £50K+ 6 years ago and still on the same now? Inflation not an issue then?

 

And then there's the threat of redundancies and unsafe working practices etc.

 

the £50K+ headline is just a Daily Mail type headline to deflect the attention away from the issue.

[il Duce McTarkin]

50 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

Deflect, deflect, deflect...

 

If you can explain how what I posted was deflection, I'll bow to your superior knowledge. Otherwise, I'll continue to assume that you're just another perma-seething lefty bashing his keyboard with his forehead.

[Thunder and Lightning]

1 hour ago, Pans Jambo said:

The usual lapdug tory tossers are on here with their deviant viewpoints about workers versus their masters and how the people just need to bend to their overlords will, and everything will be fine. Same as they do.

 

Bet they would be the first to greet if they lost:

 

Health and Safety at work

Right to refuse unsafe work

Pension provision

Minimum wage

Holiday pay

Sickness Pay

Working hours

Maternity pay

redundancy rights

 

Etc. etc. etc.

 

All hard fought and won by unions and strikers.

 

But auld Mary cant get the train to Preston to see her grandson at Christmas though eh! That's what's important to the lapdugs!

 

Theyre not even asking for an "inflation busting" (Daily Mail headline) pay rise! Just a reasonable one, some job security and to work safely.

 

Too much to ask? Is if you're a lapdug tory!

 

Mon the workers!

 

Are you permanently seething about everything?

 

 

[frankblack]

4 minutes ago, Dennis Reynolds said:

 

The RMT doesn't represent train drivers. It's mental how often this needs to be said.

 

So those guys aren't striking this time.  Makes a change.

 

While I appreciate the Tories have ****ed the economy, you need to pay wage rises from profits.  I'd be interested to see the min and max salary range of those on strike over cost of living.

[Pans Jambo]

Just now, Dirk McTarkin said:

 

If you can explain how what I posted was deflection, I'll bow to your superior knowledge. Otherwise, I'll continue to assume that you're just another perma-seething lefty bashing his keyboard with his forehead.

If you cant see how your post was a deflection attempt from the issue of the strikes to try and move it to attack "the lefties" instead, then I will assume you are a dumb tory lapdug who will swallow anything the tory party says or the Daily Mail prints.

 

See how that works?