National rail strikes planned by RMT

[Unknown user]

1 hour ago, frankblack said:

 

Nationalising it doesn't get around the lack of revenue.

 

I don't use trains but I don't see why profit should be a key driver for public transport.

Run it at a loss for me, what are taxes meant for if not public benefit?

[Doctor FinnBarr]

3 hours ago, ri Alban said:

It does, if the ticket money goes back to the infrastructure and our taxes go into the running of the railways, not the bank accounts of the shareholders. Nationalising it makes us the shareholders.

If all transport was nationalised and everything connected, bus, train, taxi, trams, ferries, we could run the country so much better. 

BT, RM/PO, BP, BR/SR etc... being fully privatised has cost the people of this country (GB) so much in income , jobs, tax revenue and subsidies. Yet their top brass are earning a fortune . But, but these workers  

 

 

People need to stop allowing the right-wing newspapers and the government to fill their brain with this pish. If government made the country more successful for all, instead of the few , it would be a better place.

 

Can see the taxi drivers being awfy chuffed you want to nationalise them. Where does that leave Uber?

[ri Alban]

3 hours ago, FinnBarr Saunders said:

 

Can see the taxi drivers being awfy chuffed you want to nationalise them. Where does that leave Uber?

Feck Uber! 

 

 

Seriously tho, it would be great if we could public transport running 24/7. The economy should be 24/7 and peoples safety would be so much better with fleets of taxi drivers at night, instead of the few. And if they are full time, they are guaranteed their wages. 

 

Sorry just thinking out loud. GB is so slow and I think it's deliberate. Keep is plebs from traveling in case we do something good, that threatens the elite.

 

 

 

And we could help save the environment and clean up our cities.

Edited December 4, 2022 by ri Alban

[IronJambo]

11 hours ago, frankblack said:

 

If passengers are down to a fraction of pre-pandemic where is the money coming from for these wage rises?

 

In the public sector losing money costs jobs let alone bonuses and pay rises.

Passenger numbers are barely down. In some cases passenger numbers are up.

[IronJambo]

10 hours ago, fabienleclerq said:

 

At the moment companies are basically guaranteed their profit. The government basically paying them if they don't make a profit normally. 

 

So by Nationalising it instantly stops these companies taking millions out the system for shareholders which can be reinvested in the railway. 

 

There's no lack of footfall, peak trains in the morning are quite but overall I think it's busier than it was pre pandemic and the park and rides near me are full again. 

 

 

There seem to be regional differences in this. Some are at 70% of pre pandemic levels and others are over 95% of that. Where I am is at the higher end and what we've also seen is leisure travel increase to a higher level than it was before. We've trains leaving early and mid afternoon every day that are full and standing everyday to the extent we fight to take stops off the board to stem the numbers. Weekend trains are insane here.

 

We get constant emails from the MD about the "missing passengers". It's quite ironic when he gets on my train and has to stand in a vestibule in my declassified first class.

 

As for revenue. Every day we're seeing gatelines open in our busiest stations at all times of the day. People can just walk on and off our trains without even having to pass through a barrier. The company isn't even making an effort to collect revenue!

[Shooter McGavin]

13 hours ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

Exactly.

Poor wee souls being inconvenienced.

I’m going to play their game and give them some Tory advice,

 

if you’re trains are being cancelled and it’s inconvenient, stop being so lazy and just uproot your entire family, leave all your friends behind and move closer to the location you’re trying to get to?
 

It’s not hard is it?

[Shooter McGavin]

*

Edited December 4, 2022 by Shooter McGavin

[The Real Maroonblood]

5 minutes ago, Shooter McGavin said:

I’m going to play their game and give them some Tory advice,

 

if you’re trains are being cancelled and it’s inconvenient, stop being so lazy and just uproot your entire family, leave all your friends behind and move closer to the location you’re trying to get to?
 

It’s not hard is it?

👍

[Dazo]

14 hours ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

Exactly.

Poor wee souls being inconvenienced.

Poor we souls are customers, without them no one has a job. 

[John Findlay]

12 hours ago, ri Alban said:

It does, if the ticket money goes back to the infrastructure and our taxes go into the running of the railways, not the bank accounts of the shareholders. Nationalising it makes us the shareholders.

If all transport was nationalised and everything connected, bus, train, taxi, trams, ferries, we could run the country so much better. 

BT, RM/PO, BP, BR/SR etc... being fully privatised has cost the people of this country (GB) so much in income , jobs, tax revenue and subsidies. Yet their top brass are earning a fortune . But, but these workers  

 

 

People need to stop allowing the right-wing newspapers and the government to fill their brain with this pish. If government made the country more successful for all, instead of the few , it would be a better place.

It really doesn't. We tried nationalisation from 1948-1996, during those times we still had worse and least modernised railway system in Western Union.

Governments will not plough in the money required to modernise the railway infrastructure. If they did they would have to Rob the NHS and the welfare  state money to do so.

All I repeat all governments have been guilty of underfunding the rail network, and will remain being so.

[Japan Jambo]

8 minutes ago, Dazo said:

Poor we souls are customers, without them no one has a job. 

 

Note that Curry's have just dropped Royal Mail, for the moment at least.

[Dazo]

1 minute ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

Note that Curry's have just dropped Royal Mail, for the moment at least.

A lot of businesses will be doing the same. 

[Shooter McGavin]

8 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

Note that Curry's have just dropped Royal Mail, for the moment at least.

Good, the more pressure on RM, the better 👍🏻

[Japan Jambo]

2 minutes ago, Shooter McGavin said:

Good, the more pressure on RM, the better 👍🏻

 

The Royal Mail isn't in the same position as the railways. It faces plenty competition, it should be using it's preeminent position to reform and evolve before others eat it's lunch.

 

[Shooter McGavin]

11 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

The Royal Mail isn't in the same position as the railways. It faces plenty competition, it should be using it's preeminent position to reform and evolve before others eat it's lunch.

 

True, although a lot of other couriers are bandits and treat their workers worse than RM.

 

The RM CEO really needs to start justifying his £500k+ annual salary.

[fabienleclerq]

2 hours ago, IronJambo said:

There seem to be regional differences in this. Some are at 70% of pre pandemic levels and others are over 95% of that. Where I am is at the higher end and what we've also seen is leisure travel increase to a higher level than it was before. We've trains leaving early and mid afternoon every day that are full and standing everyday to the extent we fight to take stops off the board to stem the numbers. Weekend trains are insane here.

 

We get constant emails from the MD about the "missing passengers". It's quite ironic when he gets on my train and has to stand in a vestibule in my declassified first class.

 

As for revenue. Every day we're seeing gatelines open in our busiest stations at all times of the day. People can just walk on and off our trains without even having to pass through a barrier. The company isn't even making an effort to collect revenue!

 

Good point r.e revenue. Edinburgh the longer carriers come in and they just open the barriers. Newcastle don't have barriers on a lot of the time either.

[Carl Fredrickson]

On 03/12/2022 at 09:48, Shooter McGavin said:

If you think your train getting cancelled, or your mail being undelivered, is inconvenient,

 

try taking a pay cut and having your working conditions decimated and see how you feel then 👍🏻

 

15 hours ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

Exactly.

Poor wee souls being inconvenienced.

 

If either of these were aimed at my post then I would have appreciated being quoted. 

 

I was only asking for advice and cast no views on whether I am for or against strike action. Coming from a mining background and having been on strike myself on more than a few occasions with my own career, I have seen effective but also ineffective action by unions. 

 

 

[Japan Jambo]

51 minutes ago, Shooter McGavin said:

True, although a lot of other couriers are bandits and treat their workers worse than RM.

 

The RM CEO really needs to start justifying his £500k+ annual salary.

 

On this we can break bread, the pretense that Yodel/UBER/Deliveroo workers are really self employed is a joke and ought to be called out. If a job is worth doing it's worth at least a living wage.

[Shooter McGavin]

1 hour ago, Carl Fredrickson said:

 

 

If either of these were aimed at my post then I would have appreciated being quoted. 

 

I was only asking for advice and cast no views on whether I am for or against strike action. Coming from a mining background and having been on strike myself on more than a few occasions with my own career, I have seen effective but also ineffective action by unions. 

 

 

Not necessarily aimed at you, mate

 

If you look across the board, there’s lots of people moaning about the strikes, and whilst I understand that to an extent, people need to step back and look at the bigger picture.

 

If people can’t accept a bit of inconvenience, or show solidarity with those striking, them we might as well all just rollover and watch as our living standards crumble in front of us. A world where everybody only cares about themselves and no-one else, is a cheap and miserable world where we all lose.

 

The media in this country especially, you’ll see a lot of headlines such as “Mick Grinch”, “Ruining Christmas” etc, all trying to turn the general public on their own. My hope is that people aren’t thick enough to buy into that, but I’m afraid many will.

[Carl Fredrickson]

16 minutes ago, Shooter McGavin said:

Not necessarily aimed at you, mate

 

If you look across the board, there’s lots of people moaning about the strikes, and whilst I understand that to an extent, people need to step back and look at the bigger picture.

 

If people can’t accept a bit of inconvenience, or show solidarity with those striking, them we might as well all just rollover and watch as our living standards crumble in front of us. A world where everybody only cares about themselves and no-one else, is a cheap and miserable world where we all lose.

 

The media in this country especially, you’ll see a lot of headlines such as “Mick Grinch”, “Ruining Christmas” etc, all trying to turn the general public on their own. My hope is that people aren’t thick enough to buy into that, but I’m afraid many will.

 

I appreciate your post and the explanation. I have no issues with the rail or mail strikes - everyone has the right to a decent wage for their effort and decent working conditions. 

 

My post was trying to plan a trip with kids and if we are inconvenience I can make other plans. Only asking a question as I am not up to date on the situation on rail cancellations outwith strike days. 

[The Real Maroonblood]

7 hours ago, Carl Fredrickson said:

 

 

If either of these were aimed at my post then I would have appreciated being quoted. 

 

I was only asking for advice and cast no views on whether I am for or against strike action. Coming from a mining background and having been on strike myself on more than a few occasions with my own career, I have seen effective but also ineffective action by unions. 

 

 

My post wasn't aimed at you.

Just a generalisation of he situation. 

 

[Carl Fredrickson]

1 minute ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

My post wasn't aimed at you.

Just a generalisation of he situation. 

 

[Unknown user]

9 hours ago, John Findlay said:

It really doesn't. We tried nationalisation from 1948-1996, during those times we still had worse and least modernised railway system in Western Union.

Governments will not plough in the money required to modernise the railway infrastructure. If they did they would have to Rob the NHS and the welfare  state money to do so.

All I repeat all governments have been guilty of underfunding the rail network, and will remain being so.

 

What benefits do you see to pumping millions into the pockets of shareholders?

[IronJambo]

32 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

What benefits do you see to pumping millions into the pockets of shareholders?

I agree with John. Nationalisation isn't the answer.

[IronJambo]

Just got this in an email from RMT. This is their "offer". No chance of strikes being canned!

 

 

[Unknown user]

2 minutes ago, IronJambo said:

I agree with John. Nationalisation isn't the answer.

 

What benefits do you see to pumping millions into shareholder pockets?

[IronJambo]

2 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

What benefits do you see to pumping millions into shareholder pockets?

Have a look at my post above. That's what the beginning of nationalisation would look like. A much less safe railway with hardly any staff. 

[Unknown user]

2 minutes ago, IronJambo said:

Have a look at my post above. That's what the beginning of nationalisation would look like. A much less safe railway with hardly any staff. 

 

Certainly, if done shittily.

[milky_26]

4 minutes ago, IronJambo said:

Have a look at my post above. That's what the beginning of nationalisation would look like. A much less safe railway with hardly any staff. 

you would also have the fact that you would be brought into the public sector (civil servants) pay which for this year i think it limited to 3% rise at most. Then you have the fact that lots of government run/funded sectors/industries are so poorly ran that it is a black hole for money and would make the PPE scandal during covid look like a great deal

[IronJambo]

Just now, Smithee said:

 

Certainly, if done shittily.

The above is what they want. Shitty for everyone. Every bit as shitty, or even shitter than pre privatisation. 

[IronJambo]

12 minutes ago, milky_26 said:

you would also have the fact that you would be brought into the public sector (civil servants) pay which for this year i think it limited to 3% rise at most. Then you have the fact that lots of government run/funded sectors/industries are so poorly ran that it is a black hole for money and would make the PPE scandal during covid look like a great deal

Absolutely. Pensions would also soon be raided.

[Unknown user]

13 minutes ago, IronJambo said:

The above is what they want. Shitty for everyone. Every bit as shitty, or even shitter than pre privatisation. 

They?

[IronJambo]

5 minutes ago, Smithee said:

They?

The government.

[Unknown user]

Just now, IronJambo said:

The government.

 

Exactly, the Tories are historical specialists in making nationalised industry look like a terrible idea. That doesn't mean it's a terrible idea, and it doesn't mean pumping millions into their shareholder mates is a good idea.

[IronJambo]

1 minute ago, Smithee said:

 

Exactly, the Tories are historical specialists in making nationalised industry look like a terrible idea. That doesn't mean it's a terrible idea, and it doesn't mean pumping millions into their shareholder mates is a good idea.

I think there has to be a solution somewhere in the middle. Going all socialist on it isn't going to work (it's been proven in the past that it doesn't) and the system we've had clearly wasn't working. 

 

Being against nationalising the rail network doesn't mean I think it's OK to keep throwing money at private companies for just existing. The current management contracts are worse than what we had a few years ago for that. First group can't even be bothered to collect revenue because they're guaranteed to be paid tens of millions without bothering. 

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, IronJambo said:

I think there has to be a solution somewhere in the middle. Going all socialist on it isn't going to work (it's been proven in the past that it doesn't) and the system we've had clearly wasn't working. 

 

Being against nationalising the rail network doesn't mean I think it's OK to keep throwing money at private companies for just existing. The current management contracts are worse than what we had a few years ago for that. First group can't even be bothered to collect revenue because they're guaranteed to be paid tens of millions without bothering. 

 

I've seen nationalisation of the railways with my own eyes, in Holland. I find it hard to accept that it just isn't possible here.

[ri Alban]

53 minutes ago, IronJambo said:

I agree with John. Nationalisation isn't the answer.

What exactly does giving companies money whether they succeed or fail do for the people. And why should we through the government, foot the bill for private companies?

Edited December 4, 2022 by ri Alban

[IronJambo]

3 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

What exactly does giving companies money whether they succeed or fail do for the people. And why should we through the government, foot the bill for private companies?

A privatised rail network doesn't need to look like that.

We also have to accept that there are parts of the network that need to be subsidised. Some lines will never ever make money but it would be disadvantaging already impoverished communities to close them. 

A nationalised network would make a loss on those lines. A private company would never get it past their accountant to run trains on those lines. Why is it so bad for the government to subsidise those lines to keep them open when they'd be losing money if they ran it themselves anyway? 

[IronJambo]

16 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

I've seen nationalisation of the railways with my own eyes, in Holland. I find it hard to accept that it just isn't possible here.

Of course it's possible. It would just wouldn't be done very well. The ticket prices wouldn't drop either, which is what a lot of people seem to think would happen.

[The Real Maroonblood]

Definitely Nationalise the Railways.

Edited December 4, 2022 by The Real Maroonblood

[jamboy1982]

Think we’ll very quickly see curry’s return to Royal Mail. Just like the many other companies who have moved to couriers. Royal Mail have a far better record of successful deliveries than any other courier company. Most businesses that have left Royal Mail have come back very quickly once they see how awful these courier companies are 

[The Real Maroonblood]

1 minute ago, jamboy1982 said:

Think we’ll very quickly see curry’s return to Royal Mail. Just like the many other companies who have moved to couriers. Royal Mail have a far better record of successful deliveries than any other courier company. Most businesses that have left Royal Mail have come back very quickly once they see how awful these courier companies are 

Fair comment.

[Japan Jambo]

2 hours ago, IronJambo said:

Just got this in an email from RMT. This is their "offer". No chance of strikes being canned!

 

 

 

Which of these are sensible and which are misguided, be interesting to have a better perspective?

[IronJambo]

7 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

Which of these are sensible and which are misguided, be interesting to have a better perspective?

1, 2, 4, and 5 are completely unacceptable for obvious reasons. 1 - accept all changes unconditionally? 😂

 

3 can only be product in the event of 2, 4, and 5.

 

7 can only lead to somewhere between no catering and very little catering and huge job losses. Basically, you could be on a train for 6 hours without being able to buy as much as a bottle of water or a cup of tea. 

 

9 is ridiculous. This means they want to be able change staffs booking on/off times within 48 hours of their shift. It would basically mean staff would be a slave to their working hours and unable to plan their life properly around their work. Work/life balance gone. 

 

8 - I don't know anything about it so I don't have an opinion

 

10 - no issue with this at all and it literally only effects one grade in the toc I work for. It's a piss take that the company has to pay someone extra because they provided them with an Android tablet. 

 

11 - It's worrying that they think they can make this worse.

 

13 - I'd rather they left this alone. We don't even get public holidays as it is.

 

They knew fine that this wasn't an acceptable offer. It doesn't even read like an offer to me. 

 

 

 

 

[Sooperstar]

Are the strikes on the weekend of the 16th cancelled @John Findlay?

[fabienleclerq]

4 hours ago, IronJambo said:

Just got this in an email from RMT. This is their "offer". No chance of strikes being canned!

 

 

🤣

Chances of that getting accepted...

 

Surely Doo would require Aslef to agree first and I don't know a single driver who would. Everyone I know who starts on doo can't wait to get away from it, not to mention it just isn't safe imo especially for vulnerable passengers. 

[benny]

8 hours ago, Sooperstar said:

Are the strikes on the weekend of the 16th cancelled @John Findlay?

Still on so far.

It's the signallers that are on strike up here so there will be a much reduced service that will finish a lot earlier than normal.

[Japan Jambo]

10 hours ago, IronJambo said:

1, 2, 4, and 5 are completely unacceptable for obvious reasons. 1 - accept all changes unconditionally? 😂

 

3 can only be product in the event of 2, 4, and 5.

 

7 can only lead to somewhere between no catering and very little catering and huge job losses. Basically, you could be on a train for 6 hours without being able to buy as much as a bottle of water or a cup of tea. 

 

9 is ridiculous. This means they want to be able change staffs booking on/off times within 48 hours of their shift. It would basically mean staff would be a slave to their working hours and unable to plan their life properly around their work. Work/life balance gone. 

 

8 - I don't know anything about it so I don't have an opinion

 

10 - no issue with this at all and it literally only effects one grade in the toc I work for. It's a piss take that the company has to pay someone extra because they provided them with an Android tablet. 

 

11 - It's worrying that they think they can make this worse.

 

13 - I'd rather they left this alone. We don't even get public holidays as it is.

 

They knew fine that this wasn't an acceptable offer. It doesn't even read like an offer to me. 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks - appreciate the tweet was from a union perspective but it's interesting how much wood there is clearly left to chop in terms of finding solutions. Any hope that the unions and the employers could sit down together and work out what is best for all the stakeholders is clearly a pipe dream, both sides are clearly still at each others throats. Can appreciate why you aren't happy here!

[IronJambo]

35 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

Thanks - appreciate the tweet was from a union perspective but it's interesting how much wood there is clearly left to chop in terms of finding solutions. Any hope that the unions and the employers could sit down together and work out what is best for all the stakeholders is clearly a pipe dream, both sides are clearly still at each others throats. Can appreciate why you aren't happy here!

It was a screenshot from an email. It wasn't a perspective, that's literally the offer with the attached conditions that government gave us on Sunday. 

[Shanks]

That ‘offer’ is shocking.  
 

Just a shame the staff have to take a financial hit whilst on strike, when my work organised strike action the union agreed to pay us a rate whilst on strike.