All Home games to be streamed for ST Holders

[Lfhearts]

17 minutes ago, Dazo said:

Maybe they are unhappy because they didn’t understand the word access and looking to blame. Not sure how anyone expected the club to function without season ticket money. 

As usual maroon blinkers on.

[Gorgie Boot boy]

12 minutes ago, Dazo said:

I renewed to help the club and to keep my seats for when we get back to the premiership. I read the guarantee and assumed it would include streamed games. 

 I did not read guarantee. I have never watched Hearts play live on TV, have watched Hearts TV though for any videos i can get on the side and interviews etc. looking forward to watching the side play with a proper set up formation an idea of what they are meant to be doing and do it to their best ability

[Dazo]

1 minute ago, Lfhearts said:

As usual maroon blinkers on.

😂😂😂

 

Is that an insult ? I’m not offended. 👍

[leginten]

20 minutes ago, Dazo said:

Maybe they are unhappy because they didn’t understand the word access and looking to blame. Not sure how anyone expected the club to function without season ticket money. 

Where is the word “access” in the club’s guarantee? I may have missed this.

[davemclaren]

5 minutes ago, amadjambo said:

There’s other things the club could do to try and make amends. How about offering things to ST holders that used to be the norm, such as free entry for ST holders to home friendlies and cup games, for the next 5 years for example. Limit it to those ST holders from this season who renew in each of next 5 years. Spreads the cost hit to the club over a few years, and might stem the tide of refund requests. Still not sure it would be enough to satisfy me though.

Cup games are very expensive for the club to not charge for as half the receipts

( even notional ) less costs, are given to the opposing club. 

[Stone1992]

2 hours ago, scotty2442 said:

Exactly this 

 

Households with multiple season tickets have really been shafted with this and I hope the club rectify this 

 

The 18 game guarantee didn’t come with an asterisk saying some of those could be “virtual” 

 

We have 3 adult platinum 1 one child platinum season tickets in our house, at a cost of more than £1500....that means as a household to watch a stream will technically cost us around £85 per match. 

See that’s totally unfair. If they done something like I suggested wouldn’t mean 3 of your tickets going to waste as they could be used down the line at some point. 
 

They could even say only adult tickets can be used to redeem for streams which I don’t think people would have gripes about. 
 

I get they would have liked everyone to be back and maybe thought we would be so it wasn’t said in detail it might be virtual but could have handled it so much better and with far more common sense. 

[Paolo]

3 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

I think people hoping for refunds are going to find themselves disappointed.

 

If the matches take place and Hearts offered a means to watch them then I don't think you have a leg to stand on.

I would argue they do.   The T&Cs were very vague and were announced before any broadcasting deal was permitted and agreed.  
 

What is often also considered it such cases is what has happened before, all be in it we are in unique times.   Always in the past the access season tickets has got you is to the actual game.  That is the expectation, and historically always been the case, and it would carry some weight.  This together with the woolly guarantee, then I think any moderator or consumer body would side with the consumer.  

[Jodami]

Tin hat firmly on here. Slept on this yesterday and not any happier. I have emailed the club to ask for refunds on my tickets today. Will feed back the response I get. 

Edited September 17, 2020 by Jodami

[Dazo]

4 minutes ago, leginten said:

Where is the word “access” in the club’s guarantee? I may have missed this.

You did. 
 

“If season 20/21 cannot offer supporters access to a full complement of 18 home games then fans who renew their season ticket for the following season will be credited with the value of the outstanding number of matches for season 21/22. “

[Sooperstar]

5 minutes ago, leginten said:

 

 

Edited September 17, 2020 by Sooperstar

[amadjambo]

“It guarantees you 18 games at Tynecastle Park.”

 

Not 18 games in your living room on a laptop. Doesn’t say it guarantees you 18 games FROM Tynecastle Park.

 

AT is the key word IMO.

[leginten]

Just now, Dazo said:

You did. 
 

“If season 20/21 cannot offer supporters access to a full complement of 18 home games then fans who renew their season ticket for the following season will be credited with the value of the outstanding number of matches for season 21/22. “

Thank you.

[Dazo]

1 minute ago, amadjambo said:

“It guarantees you 18 games at Tynecastle Park.”

 

Not 18 games in your living room on a laptop. Doesn’t say it guarantees you 18 games FROM Tynecastle Park.

 

AT is the key word IMO.

We only have 14 at Tynecastle that’s why we are getting a 4 game refund next year. 

[Sooperstar]

2 minutes ago, Dazo said:

You did. 
 

“If season 20/21 cannot offer supporters access to a full complement of 18 home games then fans who renew their season ticket for the following season will be credited with the value of the outstanding number of matches for season 21/22. “

The guarantee wording was 'A 20/21 season ticket guarantees you 18 matches at Tynecastle Park, regardless of what league we play in or the duration of the campaign.'

 

The section you have quoted where access is mentioned in relation to the possible shortened campaig that we were subject to once we knew what league we would be playing in i.e. there are only a max of 14 games to be accessed in the Championship.

 

Anyway, as ever we are all going round in circles and nobody is going to change their mind on this. I'm out.

[Gorgie Boot boy]

3 minutes ago, Dazo said:

We only have 14 at Tynecastle that’s why we are getting a 4 game refund next year. 

Correct, remind people how many games will be played in the championship. Count the fingers then think how you been further robbed of the extra games through the out break of Covid 19. So the tickets were produced with no knowledge of what league we would be in and also how many league games were going to take place due to the late kick off for the season again due to Covid 19. What is really going on here ?

 

3 minutes ago, Dazo said:

We only have 14 at Tynecastle that’s why we are getting a 4 game refund next year. 

 

[Paolo]

6 minutes ago, amadjambo said:

“It guarantees you 18 games at Tynecastle Park.”

 

Not 18 games in your living room on a laptop. Doesn’t say it guarantees you 18 games FROM Tynecastle Park.

 

AT is the key word IMO.

I would say it is a key word.  AT and FROM are not the same thing.  
 

If you were promised access to the Orient Express, and paid for it on the basis you will get credit for a future trip if access was not possible, I am not dire you would accept a DVD or a live stream of it as meeting the guarantee.   
 

As it is Hearts, in most cases they will get away with it.  I do, though, think fans who do want or need a refund do have a case. 

[Gorgie Boot boy]

6 minutes ago, Sooperstar said:

The guarantee wording was 'A 20/21 season ticket guarantees you 18 matches at Tynecastle Park, regardless of what league we play in or the duration of the campaign.'

 

The section you have quoted where access is mentioned in relation to the possible shortened campaig that we were subject to once we knew what league we would be playing in i.e. there are only a max of 14 games to be accessed in the Championship.

 

Anyway, as ever we are all going round in circles and nobody is going to change their mind on this. I'm out.

Thank you for the information

[Saint Jambo]

1 hour ago, Dazo said:

Can people stop saying hearts haven’t been upfront. Here are posts from July where I thought streaming will be included. I wasn’t alone so can we stop making out anything was done underhandedly. 
 

 

 

Those posts are from 3 months after the pledge was made.

 

You also say that is what you suspect will happen which suggests you weren't sure, which suggests that Hearts weren't up front. If Hearts had been up front you would have been sure.

Edited September 17, 2020 by Saint Jambo

[Saint Jambo]

32 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

I think people hoping for refunds are going to find themselves disappointed.

 

If the matches take place and Hearts offered a means to watch them then I don't think you have a leg to stand on.

 

So if you bought a ticket for a festival and the ticket said something like "this ticket permits one adult access to the festival site" your standard interpretation of that would be that it might allow physical access to the site or that it might allow that adult to access a live stream of the festival?

[amadjambo]

12 minutes ago, Paolo said:

I would say it is a key word.  AT and FROM are not the same thing.  
 

If you were promised access to the Orient Express, and paid for it on the basis you will get credit for a future trip if access was not possible, I am not dire you would accept a DVD or a live stream of it as meeting the guarantee.   
 

As it is Hearts, in most cases they will get away with it.  I do, though, think fans who do want or need a refund do have a case. 

Yep, agree. The use of AT and not FROM are key here IMO. 
 

We have been mislead, that is clear. And the club have not come out and addressed this. I understand the club is in a difficult position financially, and in the past I’ve done more than my fair share to help, but I do not like being ripped off. 

[Jambo-Fox]

29 minutes ago, Jodami said:

Tin hat firmly on here. Slept on this yesterday and not any happier. I have emailed the club to ask for refunds on my tickets today. Will feed back the response I get. 

But (if you get a refund) what will you do with all that money?! Spend it on watching live streams of matches at Tynecastle or donate to the FOH or perhaps both?

[tokyowalnut]

3 hours ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

The multiple household ticket holders is the only area where I see a problem. Seemed clear to me when I bought mine that we might have to trade games for streams.

 

No-one else in my house has one so I’m not affected that way but I can’t argue with people who are a bit frustrated by that.

The multiple tickets per household situation surely was spoken about. It should have been mentioned in the follow up statement.

 

Although I'm happy, I do see why there is some frustration at this. 

[Newton51]

3 hours ago, davemclaren said:

I doubt the club will stream them in the UK if Premier have the rights. 

 

Rangers game on premier just now but rangers Tv were charging 9.99 ppv

[stevie]

Without the ST money the club would be ****ed!I’d have bought my ST regardless but given the current predicament we are all in (due to the global pandemic),I don’t think it’s too much to ask the club to be a lot more transparent in their decisions and actions.I think we have more than earned a wee bit more respect and openness from the club.

[upgotheheads]

2 hours ago, AndyNic said:

 

No I haven't yet but I will. Waiting on an official statement from the club before making a decision as I can tell you now I wouldn't have bought 4 season tickets for the 1 household if I knew I'd be paying for an online stream only (like many others)

 

Now if folk want to have a go at me for looking for a refund I genuinely could not give a ****. If they can afford to just gift Hearts over a grand for nothing then fair ****s to them but I've given Hearts enough of my money over the years.

 

Myname is on the FoH shirt and I still contribute to them every month but this is the biggest con I've seen from the club and I did not think th dynamic pricing fiasco could ever be topped. 

 

You make a very good point. Maybe Hearts could look at people in your situation again.

 

2 hours ago, Mort said:

14/05 - announcement about MacPhee and CL leaving. 
 

15/05 - season tickets announced with guarantee pledge. 
 

They did all they can to ensure as many signed up as possible. Apparently “ensure supporters get the full value of their season ticket”. How is me paying for a season ticket to then have access to a stream which is more expensive than a one off game payment, full value of my ticket?

 

So out of touch with the fans, as usual I’m afraid. 

 

Fair enough, but there have been many  occasions over the years when I couldn't get to a game when it would have suited me to have had access to a stream.

I don't think they're out of touch with the fans; the future of the club is at risk and I'll still be better of financially because of all the travelling and beer I consume on trips to Tynecastle. Over the piece I'll save the cost of my season ticket anyway, so between seeing games I wouldn't have seen and the improved condition of my wallet and liver there are some up-sides.

 

Edited September 17, 2020 by upgotheheads

[Pasquale for King]

1 hour ago, The Fonz said:

If Hearts had been up front about what was on offer from the beginning they'd have still got strong sales, I know I still would have renewed despite knowing the value for money wasn't going to be there.

 

As a support base we have shown time after time that we'll back the club to ridiculous lengths without asking for much in return.

What rankles is the complete lies the club published about 18 games "at Tynecastle" and "in your seat" where you'll have families buying multiple tickets where one would have sufficed or folk buying corporate packages for £1k plus a head for a stream that could have been accessed with the purchase of a single u12 season ticket. 

 

 

I think people will be more than entitled to ask for a refund if they feel like it. 

[Jodami]

3 minutes ago, Jambo-Fox said:

But (if you get a refund) what will you do with all that money?! Spend it on watching live streams of matches at Tynecastle or donate to the FOH or perhaps both?

I donate to the FoH, have done from the start. Although I think they are hopeless and out of touch I won't stop that. 

 

If I am being honest the thought of watching us on a stream has very little appeal. Games I have watched on TV in the lockdown have left me cold. 

 

In the end I am just tired of being treated like a cash cow and overwhelmingly taken for granted by people who have spunked all my money on shit anyway. 

 

Might buy a nice pair of shoes though. 

[Ethan Hunt]

5 hours ago, Wee Mikey said:

Your just having a gigantic moan!😁

*You’re

[davemclaren]

13 minutes ago, Newton51 said:

 

Rangers game on premier just now but rangers Tv were charging 9.99 ppv

Available in the UK? BbC think it’s only on premier sports. 
 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.radiotimes.com/news/sport/2020-09-17/lincoln-red-imps-rangers-watch-live-kick-off-time-tv-channel/amp/

[Dazo]

15 minutes ago, Saint Jambo said:

 

Those posts are from 3 months after the pledge was made.

 

You also say that is what you suspect will happen which suggests you weren't sure, which suggests that Hearts weren't up front. If Hearts had been up front you would have been sure.

Maths not your strong point ? The pledge was on the 10th of July. 
 

I say suspect on 1 post, plenty other posts interpreting exactly how it has turned out so yeah mate I wasn’t sure but completely expected it. 

[iainmac]

1 hour ago, BRY said:

 

You could take that to mean "18 games which are at Tynecastle Park" - it's ambiguous

 

I do wish people would actually read the "Guarantee" before jumping to the club's defence. 

[Paolo]

16 minutes ago, amadjambo said:

Yep, agree. The use of AT and not FROM are key here IMO. 
 

We have been mislead, that is clear. And the club have not come out and addressed this. I understand the club is in a difficult position financially, and in the past I’ve done more than my fair share to help, but I do not like being ripped off. 

I suspect I will accept the hit.  As for friends and family, I am not sure, especially those with multiple season ticket holders in the same home.  I do feel a little hoodwinked.   

The thing is, if they were transparent, and said any streamed games would count towards the guarantee, I may well have still renewed (though would have to have consider if I stuck with platinum or not). 

[The Fonz]

3 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

I think people will be more than entitled to ask for a refund if they feel like it. 

 

So they should be.

 

I am sure no one takes any pleasure in taking the money out of the club, but equally they have have every right to feel they have been deliberately misled. It's not just the club that will be effected by COVID, times will be tight for families as well.

Whether folk ask for refunds or more than likely if they decide to take it on the chin, the loss of goodwill (again...) caused by this is another huge own goal. 

[bajthejambo]

3 minutes ago, Jodami said:

I donate to the FoH, have done from the start. Although I think they are hopeless and out of touch I won't stop that. 

 

If I am being honest the thought of watching us on a stream has very little appeal. Games I have watched on TV in the lockdown have left me cold. 

 

In the end I am just tired of being treated like a cash cow and overwhelmingly taken for granted by people who have spunked all my money on shit anyway. 

 

Might buy a nice pair of shoes though. 

 

I'll not be asking for a refund, but I echo your sentiments otherwise. 

 

 

[GinRummy]

7 minutes ago, iainmac said:

 

I do wish people would actually read the "Guarantee" before jumping to the club's defence. 

Could easily mean securing the seat in your house. Maybe they’ll detach it and send it to you by courier. Why anybody assumed ‘18 games at tynecastle’ and ‘securing their seat‘ meant anything other than streaming matches from your house is a mystery 🤷🏻‍♀️

[Saint Jambo]

8 minutes ago, Dazo said:

Maths not your strong point ? The pledge was on the 10th of July. 
 

I say suspect on 1 post, plenty other posts interpreting exactly how it has turned out so yeah mate I wasn’t sure but completely expected it. 

 

Facts not your strong point. I received the email titled "Our Season Ticket pledge to you" on 6 May.

[frankblack]

32 minutes ago, Saint Jambo said:

 

So if you bought a ticket for a festival and the ticket said something like "this ticket permits one adult access to the festival site" your standard interpretation of that would be that it might allow physical access to the site or that it might allow that adult to access a live stream of the festival?

 

I would expect that to be cancelled or rescheduled, but the football won't be.

[Dazo]

3 minutes ago, Saint Jambo said:

 

Facts not your strong point. I received the email titled "Our Season Ticket pledge to you" on 6 May.

cool so I’ve commented after you knew on the 6th of May ? Still not 3 months. 😂

[frankblack]

1 hour ago, Paolo said:

I would argue they do.   The T&Cs were very vague and were announced before any broadcasting deal was permitted and agreed.  
 

What is often also considered it such cases is what has happened before, all be in it we are in unique times.   Always in the past the access season tickets has got you is to the actual game.  That is the expectation, and historically always been the case, and it would carry some weight.  This together with the woolly guarantee, then I think any moderator or consumer body would side with the consumer.  

 

So you have two choices:

• Go to court and prove you have a case and potentially see the club in serious financial trouble.  Might cost you a fair bit to finance legal action.
• Watch the football and support the club through the pandemic.

[AndyNic]

1 minute ago, frankblack said:

 

So you have two choices:

• Go to court and prove you have a case and potentially see the club in serious financial trouble.  Might cost you a fair bit to finance legal action.
• Watch the football and support the club through the pandemic.

 

Not true. This would be covered by the small claims court. 

 

[davemclaren]

1 minute ago, AndyNic said:

 

Not true. This would be covered by the small claims court. 

 

It would, costs about £100 to raise an action iirc.  You would need to have been refused a refund first though. 

[obua]

Anyone who bought a season ticket on a credit card could try and claim it back from card company. I don’t know how successful it would be.

[davemclaren]

Just now, obua said:

Anyone who bought a season ticket on a credit card could try and claim it back from card company. I don’t know how successful it would be.

Again, you would have to have been refused a refund first I imagine. 

[Saint Jambo]

6 minutes ago, Dazo said:

cool so I’ve commented after you knew on the 6th of May ? Still not 3 months. 😂

 

Unable just to hold your hands up and say you got it wrong. No surprise.

 

Don't think that describing 6th of May to 31st July as 3 months is accurate, but you do think that "A 20/21 season ticket guarantees you 18 matches at Tynecastle Park" is an accurate description of watching games at home. If I doubted you were full of shit before, I certainly don't now. 

[Don Dan]

So, where and how do you log in to watch a game? 

[iainmac]

23 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

Could easily mean securing the seat in your house. Maybe they’ll detach it and send it to you by courier. Why anybody assumed ‘18 games at tynecastle’ and ‘securing their seat‘ meant anything other than streaming matches from your house is a mystery 🤷🏻‍♀️

 

That's what's being defended on here.   😁

[Spellczech]

2 minutes ago, Boy Daniel said:

So, where and how do you log in to watch a game? 

Too soon buddy. People are still at the "pure ragin' " stage...I'd leave it another 25 pages

Edited September 17, 2020 by Spellczech

[frankblack]

Just now, Boy Daniel said:

So, where and how do you log in to watch a game? 

 

Have you not demanded a refund like most on here? 🤔

[Lfhearts]

9 minutes ago, Saint Jambo said:

 

Unable just to hold your hands up and say you got it wrong. No surprise.

 

Don't think that describing 6th of May to 31st July as 3 months is accurate, but you do think that "A 20/21 season ticket guarantees you 18 matches at Tynecastle Park" is an accurate description of watching games at home. If I doubted you were full of shit before, I certainly don't now. 

Is this the same geezer as in the transfer window, or is it another intheknow daza....

[iainmac]

10 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Again, you would have to have been refused a refund first I imagine. 

 

I used "Charge Back" on RyanAir via Barclaycard.

 

I had to prove to Barclaycard that I'd exhausted all avenues with RyanAir first (which I did), then Barclaycard took another 4 weeks to get my money back.