Hearts transfers (Cochrane goes on loan to Montrose)

[Gav M]

we were told it would be AT LEAST 5 years before we saw any benefit of the academy due to the state it was in after the Romanov years.

we are now starting to see a few of the younger lads progress and looking like they could make an impact on the 1st team in the next year or 2.

the fact that we have a few players before then who may yet still turn out to be useful 1st team squad players is a bonus.

if, over the next few years, we are still seeing no benefit coming from the academy, maybe THEN we should be looking at an overhaul.

[Gulf Jambo]

2 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

He left Hearts academy. I have no idea why. Perhaps you do.Got improved at another academy. Came Back to get first team football he wasn’t going to get at Celtic. hardly a glowing reference for Hearts academy is it.

 

His family are all big Celtic fans and live in a Glasgow. 

Why would he not go there if they offered it at that age. 

The fact he came back to Hearts is a glowing reference on our academy in my opinion as he saw it as a better route to make the professional grade

[JimmyCant]

1 minute ago, Notts1874 said:

Let's face it. You didn't know Hickey started at Hearts and are now trying to twist your narrative to fit your ridiculous point. 

 

You do have an opinion. It's a shite opinion and you will just need to find a way of people telling you that. 

I’ve accepted that you think my opinion is shite. You’re a mere name on a forum. Frankly I couldn’t give a shit about your opinion of me personally.

 

Yes I knew Hickey was at Hearts first. I don’t know why he left or when. Perhaps you can fill in the time frames of his youth career ?

[DH1986]

Youth Academies takes years and years of comings and goings until you see regular results.

 

Man Utd had the biggest academy in England when SAF arrived there in 1986 yet it wasn’t until the Class of ‘92 until a clutch of players came through into the team together.

 

 

[wavydavy]

2 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

He left Hearts academy. I have no idea why. Perhaps you do.Got improved at another academy. Came Back to get first team football he wasn’t going to get at Celtic. hardly a glowing reference for Hearts academy is it.

 

His father is a Celtic supporter so there is every chance that when an opportunity came along to join Celtic that his father suggested he moves.

 

He then moves and thinks I was happier at Hearts and I will have more chance of first team football there and would like to return.

 

You are freely admitting that you don't know why he left so neither do I but this is a possibility, don't you think?

[Vlad the impaler]

I’d like to see Connor Smith get more game time this season,was really impressed with him when

he was thrown into the team against that lot. Showed a lot of composure for a young lad

[Notts1874]

Just now, JimmyCant said:

I’ve accepted that you think my opinion is shite. You’re a mere name on a forum. Frankly I couldn’t give a shit about your opinion of me personally.

 

Yes I knew Hickey was at Hearts first. I don’t know why he left or when. Perhaps you can fill in the time frames of his youth career ?

You didn't know otherwise you would have said so in the first place. 

 

 

[JimmyCant]

Just now, Notts1874 said:

You didn't know otherwise you would have said so in the first place. 

 

 

I clearly opined that he wasn’t fully a product of our academy. That’s a fact you can’t escape from no matter what you think I know or don’t know.

[Heartsofgold]

24 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

He left Hearts academy. I have no idea why. Perhaps you do.Got improved at another academy. Came Back to get first team football he wasn’t going to get at Celtic. hardly a glowing reference for Hearts academy is it.

He was with Celtic for less than a year I believe then his father pulled him from their academy as he didn't feel he was learning as well as he did previously with our academy.  He progressed to the 1st team at Hearts within 18 months.  In total he has had 5 years with us and a year with them (give or take) so I would say we have been the fundamental driver in his professional development.

[LarrysRightFoot]

25 minutes ago, Vlad the impaler said:

I’d like to see Connor Smith get more game time this season,was really impressed with him when

he was thrown into the team against that lot. Showed a lot of composure for a young lad

I’d second that 

[fast_blood]

44 minutes ago, Vlad the impaler said:

I’d like to see Connor Smith get more game time this season,was really impressed with him when

he was thrown into the team against that lot. Showed a lot of composure for a young lad

 

Agree with this. He's looked good on some of the wee training clips too. 

[Naisysback]

1 hour ago, JimmyCant said:

I want us to test if they are good enough. If they’re not good enough by now they need to go. I said that quite clearly and I don’t see the problem you have with it.

 

If you’ve got an academy that isnt

producing much over a lengthy period, then you fix it or you chuck the towel in and do all your recruitment external. Loads of clubs have binned academies in favour of ramping up scouting and affiliating. They are cost heavy and if they’re not working your wasting money

Both those boys hung out to dry by Levein and his bunch of 2nd rate coaches. They were the best 2 young players in the country by a country mile, we should have built around them, playing them regularly, resting them, and continually developing them and we would have had another 2 top assets on our books. These 2 were playing 1st team football before Turnbull\Hastie at Motherwell and at the same time as Ferguson came through at Hamilton. The difference is the manager stuck with them, gave them games, a run of games and they are now reaping the rewards either on the pitch or financially. 

 

They are more than good enough, they are better than most of the dross that was brought in that blocked their path, now theire is a chance to rectify that...

[BackOfTheNet]

Anyhoo, any incomings, outgoing in the pipeline today or this week (apart from Hickey)? Any new rumours that haven’t been debunked already?

[Leveins Battalion]

54 minutes ago, Gav M said:

we were told it would be AT LEAST 5 years before we saw any benefit of the academy due to the state it was in after the Romanov years.

we are now starting to see a few of the younger lads progress and looking like they could make an impact on the 1st team in the next year or 2.

the fact that we have a few players before then who may yet still turn out to be useful 1st team squad players is a bonus.

if, over the next few years, we are still seeing no benefit coming from the academy, maybe THEN we should be looking at an overhaul.

Aye but who told us?😂

[Chimp]

50 minutes ago, Notts1874 said:

Let's face it. You didn't know Hickey started at Hearts and are now trying to twist your narrative to fit your ridiculous point. 

 

You do have an opinion. It's a shite opinion and you will just need to find a way of people telling you that. 

 

Notts, you do come across as bit of an erse tbh. Seem to post in quite a patronising manner. Telling people they have "shite opinions" just because you don't agree with them 🤷‍♂️ 

[Notts1874]

1 minute ago, BackOfTheNet said:

Anyhoo, any incomings, outgoing in the pipeline today or this week (apart from Hickey)? Any new rumours that haven’t been debunked already?

You need to ask Lee Mcgregar. 

[johnking123]

Think Hickey deal is almost done. We will wait to see how much cash we get before going into transfer market. 

[brux]

1 hour ago, Smithee said:

I'm pretty sure Hickey was at celtic a lot longer than a year, I have in mind it was 4 years but I could be wrong.

A common misconception 

[jamboinglasgow]

18 minutes ago, Heartsofgold said:

He was with Celtic for less than a year I believe then his father pulled him from their academy as he didn't feel he was learning as well as he did previously with our academy.  He progressed to the 1st team at Hearts within 18 months.  In total he has had 5 years with us and a year with them (give or take) so I would say we have been the fundamental driver in his professional development.

 

That to me suggests that his Dad is looking out for the best for his son. I do wonder if at the time of contract negotiations, hey may have thought that Celtic were best for Hickey as they wanted him in the first team and Man City were just wanting him in the youth ranks. But Bayern have since come in and the opportunity offers much more than Celtic, especially regular competitive football (admittedly at third tier German football) but Bayern give the Bayern II players chances in the first team for odd matches. I think it has been overdone here the idea that his Dad is pushing his son to Celtic just because their Celtic. 

[Notts1874]

Just now, Chimp said:

 

Notts, you do come across as bit of an erse tbh. Seem to post in quite a patronising manner. Telling people they have "shite opinions" just because you don't agree with them 🤷‍♂️ 

It was a shite opinion. I'm not going to sugar coat it. If someone is talking nonsense then they need to be told. 

 

[gorgieheart]

So, apart from the spit tossing about Hickey, are we any closer to anyone else being signed  ?

[Sertse]

I'd love if we had given Hickey to Bayern for 100k with a 50% sell on clause just to **** over septic

[Gav M]

6 minutes ago, Leveins Battalion said:

Aye but who told us?😂

haha, true, on that account he was most likely right as it had to be rebuilt from the bottom up.

whether he was the right man to do it on the other hand, we will have to see what the next couple of years bring but from what those who know the youth set up well have been saying, there is a lot of good being done with the younger generations that will stand us in good stead. unfortunately we have to be patient and not make any rash decisions because we haven't managed to produce any super stars (or stars, but that may be because of the coaching post academy) so far.

[soonbe110]

Can we move the debates about Hickeys career to date to the Hickey thread please mods. This is a transfer window thread. 

[Unknown user]

1 hour ago, Flaps_98 said:

"Aaron began his footballing career at Hearts before a brief spell with Celtic."

 

From his page on the hearts website.

 

12 minutes ago, brux said:

A common misconception 

 

Direct quote from Aaron:

"I was with Hearts when I was younger but went to Celtic for four years before returning to Tynecastle."

 

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aaron-hickey-reveals-lessons-karamoko-16202268

[Famous 1874]

1 hour ago, Vlad the impaler said:

I’d like to see Connor Smith get more game time this season,was really impressed with him when

he was thrown into the team against that lot. Showed a lot of composure for a young lad

Agreed. Not to bash Levein further but how random was he with youth players, Connor Smith making his second start for the club at Easter Road, put in a decent performance and never seen again. Just seemed so random.

[lou]

1 minute ago, Famous 1874 said:

Agreed. Not to bash Levein further but how random was he with youth players, Connor Smith making his second start for the club at Easter Road, put in a decent performance and never seen again. Just seemed so random.

It seems a stormer in a debt at Easter  Road was a cue to be dropped, the same thing happened to Dikamona

[Notts1874]

1 minute ago, Famous 1874 said:

Agreed. Not to bash Levein further but how random was he with youth players, Connor Smith making his second start for the club at Easter Road, put in a decent performance and never seen again. Just seemed so random.

That is considered to be the best way to bring youngsters through but Levein was extreme with it🤣🤣🤣

 

[Boris]

1 hour ago, JimmyCant said:

One regular first team player produced in 5 years, and even he is very debatable. I rest my case. Fix it or disband it.

 

Biggest club in Scotland, outwith the OF, and you think that we should scrap having a youth set up?

 

Visionary!

[Hearts1975]

The Reality is that AH won’t renew his contract with us. It’s too far gone and his head is already turned. 

No ones fault - it happens. Hopefully he moves abroad. If we get say 1.5 - 2 million for him then we can re invest in the 1st team. That’s the best outcome we can hope for. Oh, and get a sell on fee percentage. That’s a must as he has the potential to go on and have a great career and playing at a higher level 

 

We should reject, outright, any approach made from septic. They shouldn’t be allowed the opportunity to take him. We are in direct competition with septic but not with the likes of BM, Lyon or Bolonga ... hope we have already made this crystal clear 

[AllyjamboDerbyshire]

57 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

Hickey came to Hearts for a better chance of first team football imo. 

 

Celtic have good facilities as well. 

 Which only serves to strengthen the point I was making when backing a post that was contradicting the assertion that we'd be better off without our academy. In my opinion, Hickey would not gave come to us if he wasn't completely happy with our set up, including the academy facilities. 

[Hearts1975]

It’s nuts to even consider binning the academy. That said, I agree with those who are looking at the amount of 1st team regulars, certainly in more recent times, and who have came through the ranks 

 

Nothing wrong with looking at it from top to bottom, making a few tweaks here and there and further radical changes where required - Would much rather we work at getting it right rather than disbanding it. 

 

We need to have the best youth facilities and more importantly a pathway to the 1st team so we can continue to attract the best talent. If for whatever reason we aren’t getting these players into the 1st team we need to identify what’s wrong, and work on sorting it 

[soonbe110]

25 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

 

Direct quote from Aaron:

"I was with Hearts when I was younger but went to Celtic for four years before returning to Tynecastle."

 

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aaron-hickey-reveals-lessons-karamoko-16202268

Pretty sure he signed for Celtic on 1 July 2017 just after his 15th birthday. Start of his pro-youth contract. 

[tian447]

People are aware that an academy could realistically take 8 to 10 years before seeing the real benefits, right?  It's not a case of magically find some 16 year old prodigy, stick him in the academy for 6 weeks, and then sell him on for millions.

 

A lot of work will go into it from a very young age.  In fact, from the Hearts Academy Website (https://www.heartsfc.co.uk/squads/academy/overview):
 

Quote

We work with players from as young as six years of age and the curriculum becomes progressively more demanding as the players advance through the Academy.

 

So realistically, some of the youngest entrants into the academy could be in it for 10 to 12 years before getting a sniff of the first team.

 

And people want to bin it  

[Vlad the impaler]

43 minutes ago, Famous 1874 said:

Agreed. Not to bash Levein further but how random was he with youth players, Connor Smith making his second start for the club at Easter Road, put in a decent performance and never seen again. Just seemed so random.

Levein seemed to like pulling a rabbit out the hat, in big game’s especially. Probably thought he was being clever but give him his due 9/10 times he got away with it

[Spellczech]

1 hour ago, jambonian said:

 

This is the chance to see if any of them cut it or not. We will need a few of the younger players throughout the season so we should  hang on for a bit yet.

I don't want rid of the academy but to be honest, it's becoming a bit of a drag and costly. We are producing next to nothing for the time it's been in place so questions need to be asked. Either we are not scouting the best young boys or we are and their development is being held back by poor coaching. Said at the time that a few that came through the last time (Mackay, McGhee, McHattie, Smith and others) will probably make a career for themselves but not at the top level and i'll say the same for current ones (Henderson, Morrison etc) so something is not right, or just not happening at the academy. It's a big season for these guys.

In the last few years we have been experts at both building revenue growth and wasting those increased funds! Say what you like about Levein but Budge has done a sterling job of bringing money into the club. It is a shame that we've wasted loads of money on wages, however, I'm not sure of the transfer in/out fees net position. As far as the Academy goes, it washes its face every time we sell a graduate for money, however, too many have chosen or had to leave on Bosmans/free transfers...To get rid of the Academy would mean we under-utilise the superb facilities at Oriam.

 

The key things for me that that you have to get a reputation as the best academy in the East, to attract the best local talent, but also have a reputation for blooding young players and giving them their chance to make it so that you can also attract players from further afield...

[Mikey1874]

1 hour ago, Heartsofgold said:

He was with Celtic for less than a year I believe then his father pulled him from their academy as he didn't feel he was learning as well as he did previously with our academy.  He progressed to the 1st team at Hearts within 18 months.  In total he has had 5 years with us and a year with them (give or take) so I would say we have been the fundamental driver in his professional development.

 

Aaron Hickey was at Celtic from ages 12 to 16.

 

4 years. 

[Batistuta87]

19 minutes ago, tian447 said:

People are aware that an academy could realistically take 8 to 10 years before seeing the real benefits, right?  It's not a case of magically find some 16 year old prodigy, stick him in the academy for 6 weeks, and then sell him on for millions.

 

A lot of work will go into it from a very young age.  In fact, from the Hearts Academy Website (https://www.heartsfc.co.uk/squads/academy/overview😞
 

 

So realistically, some of the youngest entrants into the academy could be in it for 10 to 12 years before getting a sniff of the first team.

 

And people want to bin it  

Spot on. 

 

In all seriousness, I'm expecting it to take about 5yrs for the first team to recover from all of this, never mind the Academy. I have high hopes for our youngsters and every faith that we'll be back where we should be in time, and that soon enough we will be back to not only attracting Scotland's top players, but producing them too. 

 

Edited August 18, 2020 by Batistuta87

[Jumper]

1 hour ago, BackOfTheNet said:

Anyhoo, any incomings, outgoing in the pipeline today or this week (apart from Hickey)? Any new rumours that haven’t been debunked already?

There is a rumour this was the transfer rumour thread.

[Raymond Reddington]

2 hours ago, Vlad the impaler said:

I’d like to see Connor Smith get more game time this season,was really impressed with him when

he was thrown into the team against that lot. Showed a lot of composure for a young lad

 

Yeah I woukd like to see Connor given some game time also. Looked good in the limited chances he's had. I also believe he impressed on his loan at cowdenbeth last season.

[Notts1874]

1 minute ago, Raymond Reddington said:

 

Yeah I woukd like to see Connor given some game time also. Looked good in the limited chances he's had. I also believe he impressed on his loan at cowdenbeth last season.

The folk that watch academy games etc say Connor is the biggest talent. 

[TheBigO]

5 minutes ago, Raymond Reddington said:

 

Yeah I woukd like to see Connor given some game time also. Looked good in the limited chances he's had. I also believe he impressed on his loan at cowdenbeth last season.

Yeah, I'm the same - thought he looked superb.  Love to see him get some proper time in a winning, confident team and then carry that on to prem the next season.  Same with all our kids, obv, but Smith seems quite exciting indeed!

[Glamorgan Jambo]

5 hours ago, kingantti1874 said:

I think you should link this interview.. 

 

not sure how you send a link to your imagination right enough 

 

You'll have to work out for yourself whether I'm not linking it because it doesn't exist, I'm technically incapable of such a task, or your snidey and fly dig doesn't deserve an answer. In any case it's easy enough to find (they've even pulled the bit about Cummings out to a shortened section) and it's been referred to further up the thread by another user. Meantime do enjoy the company of numerous Lochend interlopers on my ignore list.

[Big Slim Stylee]

19 hours ago, GinRummy said:

Hope so. I’ve been very enthusiastic about all three previous managers when they were appointed. 

 

I'm relentlessly enthusiastic at every appointment. But safe in the knowledge that disillusionment is just around the corner.

[A Shoreditch Heart]

6 minutes ago, TheBigO said:

Yeah, I'm the same - thought he looked superb.  Love to see him get some proper time in a winning, confident team and then carry that on to prem the next season.  Same with all our kids, obv, but Smith seems quite exciting indeed!

totally agree - Smith really looked the part in that game at easter road last year - lets hope we see a lot more of him this season

[GinRummy]

I don’t know what people expect from the academy. It’s producing professional footballers but not at the level we would maybe like. Is there anything that can be done or help them make the extra step up from a future in lower league football or is it just luck what happens after you get them to a certain level?

[GinRummy]

2 minutes ago, Big Slim Stylee said:

 

I'm relentlessly enthusiastic at every appointment. But safe in the knowledge that disillusionment is just around the corner.

Sounds familiar 😀

[davemclaren]

9 minutes ago, Big Slim Stylee said:

 

I'm relentlessly enthusiastic at every appointment. But safe in the knowledge that disillusionment is just around the corner.

I’ve been following Hearts for over 50 years and that’s always been the way.  😄

[Jumper]

9 minutes ago, Big Slim Stylee said:

 

I'm relentlessly enthusiastic at every appointment. But safe in the knowledge that disillusionment is just around the corner.

In a nutshell. It takes us many years of experience to reach this level wisdom.

[Jumper]

1 minute ago, davemclaren said:

I’ve been following Hearts for over 50 years and that’s always been the way.  😄

You just gotta find a way to escape that echo chamber you've found yourself in mate.