Coronavirus Super Thread ( merged )

[ri Alban]

2 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Busy guy. Hard hats to wear, fridges to hide in. Give him a break.

Funny, coz it's true. 

[ri Alban]

12 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

I wasn't talking about people in hospital. The asymptomatic people - who are not actually cases, despite being recorded as such - have beaten the virus with their immune system,  if indeed they even had the virus. The vast majority of "positive" results therefore cure themselves as do those with mild symptoms. A small minority, most of whom are either in hospital anyway or have underlying conditions , require hospital treatment.  Stop spreading fear snd hysteria through ignorance of the facts.

Enzo! Please stop talking. 

 

 

 

[ri Alban]

1 hour ago, Bongo 1874 said:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/fresh-hope-scots-health-chiefs-22938369.amp&ved=2ahUKEwjFw4XJqOHsAhVuQUEAHR2PCoEQ0PADegQICxAQ&usg=AOvVaw2Hpuz9f9yQa-2b-7wKAuQa&ampcf=1

 

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.thenational.scot/news/18838123.covid-scotland-nhs-chiefs-planning-vaccine-roll-out-six-weeks/&ved=2ahUKEwjFw4XJqOHsAhVuQUEAHR2PCoEQ0PADegQICxAX&usg=AOvVaw3kmdCszwnUn3QjyeVnSapy

 

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/leaked-emails-reveal-nhs-lothian-19201701.amp&ved=2ahUKEwjFw4XJqOHsAhVuQUEAHR2PCoEQ0PADegQICxAe&usg=AOvVaw2ixgXk2zIpI6k1hS5qyF-Y

 

👍 

[Weakened Offender]

47 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

The hysterical virus fear on this thread is poison PAL. Facts trump hysteria though. Frothing at the mouth is a symptom of being unable to challenge the facts that I laid out in my post. Bye.

 

You're not laying out any facts. You're just posting drivel. Constant drivel. 

[redjambo]

Scottish numbers: 1 November 2020

Summary

• 1,148 new cases of COVID-19 reported [+47]
• 6 new reported death(s) of people who have tested positive [-18]
• 81 people were in intensive care yesterday with recently confirmed COVID-19 [+1]
• 1,193 people were in hospital yesterday with recently confirmed COVID-19 [+44]
• 18,565 new tests for COVID-19 that reported results – 7.0% of these were positive

[redjambo]

Per-board per-100,000 case stats:

 

Scotland 21 [+1]

 

Lanarkshire 38 [-10], Greater Glasgow 37 [+5], Ayrshire 22 [-1], Forth Valley 18 [+6], Lothian 15 [+2], Tayside 13 [+3], Fife 10 [-3].

 

All others: less than 10.

[Taffin]

As long as people are allowed to travel, mix and stay overnight for work in different areas, along with schools staying open I can't see how lockdown 2.0 will achieve much.

 

I've lost faith entirely. I can go and stay in a hotel in a tier 3 (for now) region, work there all week with a mix of people and then travel home at the weekend but I can't have a mate round to watch the football and have a beer from Friday, yet I was able to 5 round last night 🤷🏻‍♂️

Edited November 1, 2020 by Taffin

[JudyJudyJudy]

10 minutes ago, redjambo said:

Scottish numbers: 1 November 2020

Summary

• 1,148 new cases of COVID-19 reported [+47]
• 6 new reported death(s) of people who have tested positive [-18]
• 81 people were in intensive care yesterday with recently confirmed COVID-19 [+1]
• 1,193 people were in hospital yesterday with recently confirmed COVID-19 [+44]
• 18,565 new tests for COVID-19 that reported results – 7.0% of these were positive

The good news if one can say it’s good news is ICU numbers seem to be plateauing ? 

[Bongo 1874]

People last night in hotels with friends, getting pissed watching the game, so whether lockdowns will make a massive difference i don't know. 

 

 

[coconut doug]

56 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

That's been the normal throughout most of this, the complete lack of communication from WM to the devolved nations, yet at the very start they were all in unison, now however....................

 

If i remember correctly, NS was accused of being different just for the sake of it and now that we (Scotland) have what appears to be a favourable outcome, as a result of the sacrifices we have made,  it seems we are to be disadvantaged for it. England is abandoning the localised response and not inviting other devolved nations to join their response. They must consider a whole UK approach to be inappropriate but a whole England approach to be necessary. 

 

       You are quite correct to say that communication has been poor. The FMs in devolved nations have claimed to have tried to produce as consistent an approach as possible with England but have not been entertained. I think they have been bounced into this lockdown by the advisors who are being compromised by the government's incompetence.

[Bull's-eye]

7 minutes ago, Taffin said:

As long as people are allowed to travel, mix and stay overnight for work in different areas, along with schools staying open I can't see how lockdown 2.0 will achieve much.

 

I've lost faith entirely. I can go and stay in a hotel in a tier 3 (for now) region, work there all week with a mix of people and then travel home at the weekend but I can't have a mate round to watch the football and have a beer from Friday, yet I was able to 5 round last night 🤷🏻‍♂️

 

The only thing lockdown is meant to achieve is that the NHS isn't overrun.

Nothing more, nothing less.

Due to the moronic selfish element in our population this will just keep happening and happening.

 

 

[redjambo]

14 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

The good news if one can say it’s good news is ICU numbers seem to be plateauing ? 

 

The new infections stat has, reporting incident aside, been on a plateau for a couple of weeks now, which is very good news.

 

The ICU figure is a bit "dodgier" in that you could have 10 people going straight into ICU every day and 10 people dying who were in ICU and the figure would look stable. You could also have the ICU figure reduce by 5, all due to deaths, and the change would look "good". One of the problems with statistics not painting the entire picture. What would be preferable to have is a report which entails all the movements from one status to another (maybe that exists and I don't know about it), but we have what we have. It would be nice, for a period, to see the ICU and hospital stats both plateau with deaths close to zero over that period. Sorry if this appears negative, James, I'm not intentionally being so.

Edited November 1, 2020 by redjambo

[coconut doug]

57 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Perhaps for another thread, but this particular scenario doesn't half underline the absurdity of the constitutional set up in the UK. Either a) whole hog indy, b) proper federalism like in the US or c) straight up central government and an end to devolution is needed.

 

I'm no fan of devolved government but this pandemic has been primarily mismanaged from Westminster. What we have now is a form of federalism so that for me is a non starter. I have considered these points over many years and keep coming back to the same conclusion. The best option for Scotland is to have complete control over what happens in our country. Anybody who thinks our precious union has been beneficial to us in this pandemic is not thinking it through.

[Taffin]

13 minutes ago, Bull's-eye said:

 

The only thing lockdown is meant to achieve is that the NHS isn't overrun.

Nothing more, nothing less.

Due to the moronic selfish element in our population this will just keep happening and happening.

 

 

 

It will keep happening and happening because whilst people move around the country for work they'll continue to spread it. It will continue to spread via schools too.

These measures won't change that imo.

 

I don't see people who just want to live a normal life as moronic if I'm honest either. Selfish? Yeh. 99.9% of people are selfish it's human nature. Those at risk don't want to die so they want measures to protect them, selfish. Those in power want those people's votes so put measures in place to protect them, selfish. Those in support/not in support of the measures support/don't support them because they believe them to be the right/wrong approach and therefore want others to do/think/behave the same way, selfish.

 

Selfish is used with such negative connotations. I'm not sure it really is particularly negative. 

 

Edited November 1, 2020 by Taffin

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

The teacher’s Union can **** right off with their appeal to close schools again

[Enzo Chiefo]

44 minutes ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

You're not laying out any facts. You're just posting drivel. Constant drivel. 

What do you add to this thread?  Again, which of the FACTS that I posted do you disagree with? 7 out of 9 over 90s survive Covid?  Or was it the fact that the overwhelming majority of deaths occur in those with existing conditions?  Or are you just dribbling at the mouth for the sake of it?

[redjambo]

Australia has zero cases nationally for the first time in 5 months.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-54768038

 

Illustrates that suppressing this virus is more than possible.

[steve123]

Once again Edinburgh & East Lothian numbers looking good, the Lanarkshire & Glasgow numbers are still really high though from what I can see 

[JudyJudyJudy]

35 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

The new infections stat has, reporting incident aside, been on a plateau for a couple of weeks now, which is very good news.

 

The ICU figure is a bit "dodgier" in that you could have 10 people going straight into ICU every day and 10 people dying who were in ICU and the figure would look stable. You could also have the ICU figure reduce by 5, all due to deaths, and the change would look "good". One of the problems with statistics not painting the entire picture. What would be preferable to have is a report which entails all the movements from one status to another (maybe that exists and I don't know about it), but we have what we have. It would be nice, for a period, to see the ICU and hospital stats both plateau with deaths close to zero over that period. Sorry if this appears negative, James, I'm not intentionally being so.

Agreed . Never view u as negative at all . Painfully realistic I think and knowledgable . Yes it would be good to see  the movements Around ICU and normal admissions . 

[redjambo]

Meanwhile, in the UK:

 

Bristol illegal rave attended by 700 people

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-54769055

 

And we wonder why we've had problems combatting coronavirus in this country...

[AlimOzturk]

10 minutes ago, redjambo said:

Australia has zero cases nationally for the first time in 5 months.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-54768038

 

Illustrates that suppressing this virus is more than possible.

Haven't they been even more draconian with their policies than we have?

[redjambo]

1 minute ago, JamesM48 said:

Agreed . Never view u as negative at all . Painfully realistic I think and knowledgable . Yes it would be good to see  the movements Around ICU and normal admissions . 

 

I wish I were more knowledgeable. In any case, we all have to live through this on a micro, personal level, just doing what we can to keep ourselves and our loved ones safe. There is virtually nothing we can do to influence the overall picture, although I do think that encouraging people to break the rules, even where common sense says that the rules serve a useful purpose, is very irresponsible. But there you go, that's just the way that many people are these days - selfish as feck. It has surprised me, to be honest, that so many people on here fall into this category. I didn't think that would be the case. Of course, much of that I hope is just an attempt to counter JiH's incessantly provoking posting style by going over the top in the other direction.

[redjambo]

7 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

Haven't they been even more draconian with their policies than we have?

 

Yes, far more.

 

One woman even locked away for 6 months for breaking quarantine rules: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-53903498

[Footballfirst]

7 day per 100k rates for the week to 29 October

 

S Lanarkshire		313.5
Glasgow		293.2
N Lanarkshire		278.6
Renfrewshire		230.0
E Renfrewshire		223.0
E Dumbarton		221.8
E Ayrshire		219.7
W Dumbarton		208.0
W Lothian		180.2
N Ayrshire		178.1
Dundee		176.8
S Ayrshire		151.9
Clackmannan		131.9
Falkirk		118.1
Midlothian		97.3
E Lothian		91.5
Edinburgh		86.3
Fife		81.6
Stirling		77.5
Perth & Kin		73.7
Inverclyde		72.0
Dumfries & G		61.1
Argyle & Bute		57.1
Angus		51.6
Aberdeen		44.6
Borders		39.8
Aberdeenshire		29.1
Highland		19.9
Orkney		14.6
Shetland		8.7
Eileen Siar		3.7

[Weakened Offender]

40 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

What do you add to this thread?  Again, which of the FACTS that I posted do you disagree with? 7 out of 9 over 90s survive Covid?  Or was it the fact that the overwhelming majority of deaths occur in those with existing conditions?  Or are you just dribbling at the mouth for the sake of it?

 

I'm quite happy policing the drivel, thanks. 

[The Real Maroonblood]

1 minute ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

I'm quite happy policing the drivel, thanks. 

[The Real Maroonblood]

2 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

7 day per 100k rates for the week to 29 October

 

S Lanarkshire		313.5
Glasgow		293.2
N Lanarkshire		278.6
Renfrewshire		230.0
E Renfrewshire		223.0
E Dumbarton		221.8
E Ayrshire		219.7
W Dumbarton		208.0
W Lothian		180.2
N Ayrshire		178.1
Dundee		176.8
S Ayrshire		151.9
Clackmannan		131.9
Falkirk		118.1
Midlothian		97.3
E Lothian		91.5
Edinburgh		86.3
Fife		81.6
Stirling		77.5
Perth & Kin		73.7
Inverclyde		72.0
Dumfries & G		61.1
Argyle & Bute		57.1
Angus		51.6
Aberdeen		44.6
Borders		39.8
Aberdeenshire		29.1
Highland		19.9
Orkney		14.6
Shetland		8.7
Eileen Siar		3.7

Thanks for that.

[Footballfirst]

I missed Moray from the last list

 

S Lanarkshire		313.5
Glasgow		293.2
N Lanarkshire		278.6
Renfrewshire		230.0
E Renfrewshire		223.0
E Dumbarton		221.8
E Ayrshire		219.7
W Dumbarton		208.0
W Lothian		180.2
N Ayrshire		178.1
Dundee		176.8
S Ayrshire		151.9
Clackmannan		131.9
Falkirk		118.1
Midlothian		97.3
E Lothian		91.5
Edinburgh		86.3
Fife		81.6
Stirling		77.5
Perth & Kinross		73.7
Inverclyde		72.0
Dumfries & Galloway		61.1
Argyle & Bute		57.1
Angus		51.6
Aberdeen		44.6
Borders		39.8
Aberdeenshire		29.1
Highland		19.9
Moray		14.6
Orkney		9.0
Shetland		8.7
Eileen Siar		3.7

Edited November 1, 2020 by Footballfirst

[OBE]

45 minutes ago, redjambo said:

Meanwhile, in the UK:

 

Bristol illegal rave attended by 700 people

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-54769055

 

And we wonder why we've had problems combatting coronavirus in this country...

 

Fine everyone 10k, 7 mill to NHS...

[CavySlaveJambo]

50 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

Haven't they been even more draconian with their policies than we have?

 

Yes, 

Melbourne had 112 day lockdown and they closed their borders completely except for essential travel by residents and citizens

 

[Seymour M Hersh]

1 hour ago, redjambo said:

Australia has zero cases nationally for the first time in 5 months.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-54768038

 

Illustrates that suppressing this virus is more than possible.

 

And yet the WHO is asking world leaders not use lockdowns as a method. So why are SAGE demanding it? 

[Victorian]

3 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

And yet the WHO is asking world leaders not use lockdowns as a method. So why are SAGE demanding it? 

 

The WHO rightly advocate mass,  fast result testing + effective trace & isolate.  The type of systems that work,  not your typical Tory gravy train,  £12bn clown show we have here.

[Seymour M Hersh]

4 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

The WHO rightly advocate mass,  fast result testing + effective trace & isolate.  The type of systems that work,  not your typical Tory gravy train,  £12bn clown show we have here.

 

But not lockdowns.

[Victorian]

Just now, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

But not lockdowns.

 

No.  I think they would view lockdowns as detrimental in other ways.  They probably see adequate test, trace & isolate as a better option.  They're probably labouring under the delusion that the UK gvt and others can deliver the type of systems that work.  

 

Any test, trace & isolate system only works well when prevalence is under control.  We have a clown show effort that didn't even work when our prevalence was under control.  They would be as well to scrap it and have a big money bonfire now.  The £12bn wouldn't go to any less use.

 

The government knows it's test, trace & isolate system will never work.  But the main objective has already been met.  The contracts found their way into the right hands.  All we're doing now is to fall over the line of vaccines coming on stream.

[Francis Albert]

4 hours ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

You're commitment to spouting this nonsense is truly marvellous. 

If you are going to dismiss something as "utter nonsense" shouldn't you at least give some explanation for your opinion?

Edited November 1, 2020 by Francis Albert

[Francis Albert]

1 hour ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

I'm quite happy policing the drivel, thanks. 

Policing the drivel? Policing?

[The Internet]

19 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

But not lockdowns.

 

https://www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/herd-immunity-lockdowns-and-covid-19

 

 

Large scale physical distancing measures and movement restrictions, often referred to as ‘lockdowns’, can slow COVID‑19 transmission by limiting contact between people.

However, these measures can have a profound negative impact on individuals, communities, and societies by bringing social and economic life to a near stop. Such measures disproportionately affect disadvantaged groups, including people in poverty, migrants, internally displaced people and refugees, who most often live in overcrowded and under resourced settings, and depend on daily labour for subsistence.

WHO recognizes that at certain points, some countries have had no choice but to issue stay-at-home orders and other measures, to buy time.

Governments must make the most of the extra time granted by ‘lockdown’ measures by doing all they can to build their capacities to detect, isolate, test and care for all cases; trace and quarantine all contacts; engage, empower and enable populations to drive the societal response and more.

WHO is hopeful that countries will use targeted interventions where and when needed, based on the local situation.

 

 

Would you say our government have done what was needed as described by the WHO to avoid lockdowns? I wouldn't. 

[Seymour M Hersh]

2 minutes ago, Mauricio Pinilla said:

 

https://www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/herd-immunity-lockdowns-and-covid-19

 

 

 

 

Would you say our government have done what was needed as described by the WHO to avoid lockdowns? I wouldn't. 

 

Dr David Nabarro, a WHO special envoy for Covid-19, has said, "We in the WHO do not advocate lockdowns as the primary means of control of this virus ... we really do appeal to all world leaders: stop using lockdown as your primary control method."

[Enzo Chiefo]

9 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Policing the drivel? Policing?

😂

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

12 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

If you are going to dismiss something as "utter nonsense" shouldn't you at least give some explanation for your opinion?

 

i don’t think they have the confidence to engage in a proper debate - even a relatively low level football forum one

[The Internet]

1 minute ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Dr David Nabarro, a WHO special envoy for Covid-19, has said, "We in the WHO do not advocate lockdowns as the primary means of control of this virus ... we really do appeal to all world leaders: stop using lockdown as your primary control method."

 

What did he say that was replaced by the ...? 

[Ray Gin]

41 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

And yet the WHO is asking world leaders not use lockdowns as a method. So why are SAGE demanding it? 

 

Because there is no effective test and trace strategy in place.

 

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

there’s clearly a wide range of opinions but probably something we all agree on is that as we head into winter the death numbers could get fairly horrible - that will be 1000s of families not having a great Christmas digital or otherwise

 

for a bit of perspective could one of the numbers people pull up some previous years for comparison?

 

respiratory deaths (flu pneumonia etc) in the last 10 years - heaviest year and lightest year as opposed to the average as the many many mathematicians on here will know that comparing to the average can lead to a misleading conclusion 

 

 

[Victorian]

 

[felix]

Prof Sunetra Gupta - professor of epidemiology at Oxford, thinks lockdowns just delay the process - and don't solve the problem.

Learn to live with it is her advice.

 

[Weakened Offender]

20 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

If you are going to dismiss something as "utter nonsense" shouldn't you at least give some explanation for your opinion?

 

Ok, I don't think it's a cool look to trivialise tens of thousands of deaths and to contemptuously ridicule and sneer at  people who are following public health restrictions as much as they can to prevent further deaths. 

 

Is that OK? 

[SectionFJambo]

Very easy for these experts to say such stuff. They aren't the ones who get held to account for the deaths.

It may well be inevitable but I don't think we are there yet. People are still hoping for a cure and whilst that is a hope I cannot see anyone rushing to subject tens of thousands of over 65's to a premature death or the resultant increase in people dying prematurely from cancer and other deaths neglected to nurse the said OAPS'

 

If in 18 months there is still no vaccine or cure then that conversation may be relevant. At the moment we are 7 months into this .

[The Internet]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2020/10/13/who-warning-about-covid-19-coronavirus-lockdowns-is-taken-out-of-context/

 

Uh huh. 

[Francis Albert]

2 hours ago, Bull's-eye said:

 

The only thing lockdown is meant to achieve is that the NHS isn't overrun.

Nothing more, nothing less.

Due to the moronic selfish element in our population this will just keep happening and happening.

 

 

If that is the only reason shouldn't we be given more information on how stretched hospitals are and the level of occupation and trend in levels of occupation compared to similar time periods in previous years?

Last figures I saw referred to were for the Manchester "hot spot" a couple of weeks ago where levels of hospital occupancy were below those of the same period last year. Figures seem to be used primarily to scare people into obeying the rules rather than explaining clearly why the rules are needed (accepting for the moment that the rules will have the intended impact).

 

In the first wave the focus was very much on deaths. In the second wave it is on infections, with no explanation of how the vastly increased rates of testing influence the comparison betweeen measured rates on infection in March/Aril compared to now. Clearer understanding and explanation would help to legitimise the lock down measures.

 

And can we please stop singling our population as being uniquely irresponsible and moronic. Riots in Italy against  lockdown are reported in the papers today. Protests and mass gatherings have occurred in much of Western Europe. 

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

14 minutes ago, felix said:

Prof Sunetra Gupta - professor of epidemiology at Oxford, thinks lockdowns just delay the process - and don't solve the problem.

Learn to live with it is her advice.

 

 

flat earther clearly

 

this lady appears to be a scientist but not part of “the science”.