Coronavirus Super Thread ( merged )

[InternationalJambo]

1 minute ago, JamesM48 said:

“ mind myself “ came to mind when I read that . 

Mask has definitely slipped the last few months from what I’ve picked up. 

[Footballfirst]

19 minutes ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

 for further perspective those flu or pneumonia numbers how do they look compared to pre-covid years ?

I've managed to find ONS figures from 2015-2019 for the corresponding (England & Wales) deaths with Influenza or Pneumonia as the underlying cause 

2015	29,847
2016	27,464
2017	27,595
2018	29,451
2019	26,342

 

While there were only 16,079 similarly recoded deaths in 2020, my take on the reduction is that those who were vulnerable to dying from flu or pneumonia, were equally or more vulnerable to dying from Covid, so perhaps maybe 10,000 of the deaths attributed to Covid may have happened anyway. 

 

Note, that's just my personal view, which is not based on any scientific study or data. 

[Footballfirst]

15 minutes ago, InternationalJambo said:

Oh dear..

"Oh dear" what?

[Footballfirst]

7 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

“ mind myself “ came to mind when I read that . 

You will have to explain what you mean by that, because I haven't a clue what you are on about.

[InternationalJambo]

2 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

"Oh dear" what?

Nothing. As long as you're okay. 

Edited January 19, 2022 by InternationalJambo

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

You will have to explain what you mean by that, because I haven't a clue what you are on about.

The restrictions  not unduly impacting  on you comment . 

[JudyJudyJudy]

9 minutes ago, InternationalJambo said:

Mask has definitely slipped the last few months from what I’ve picked up. 

Yes I would agree . The readyness to accepting restrictions , vaccine passports etc without any concern on the impact on others has been very concerning . 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

This is a tragic story.

Hana Horka a Czech folk singer has died after deliberately catching covid.

She caught if from her husband & son who both had covid and were both vaccinated, however Ms Horka wasn't vaccinated and decided that by catching the virus, she would get her covid recovery pass instead of a vaccine pass.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60050996

 

[InternationalJambo]

2 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Yes I would agree . The readyness to accepting restrictions , vaccine passports etc without any concern on the impact on others has been very concerning . 

What done it for me was 4-5 posters jumping on a comment i made when i first posted on this thread around vaccines being made compulsory in EU countries. FootballFirst was one of them, you could probably guess the other few...

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

19 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

I've managed to find ONS figures from 2015-2019 for the corresponding (England & Wales) deaths with Influenza or Pneumonia as the underlying cause 

2015	29,847
2016	27,464
2017	27,595
2018	29,451
2019	26,342

 

While there were only 16,079 similarly recoded deaths in 2020, my take on the reduction is that those who were vulnerable to dying from flu or pneumonia, were equally or more vulnerable to dying from Covid, so perhaps maybe 10,000 of the deaths attributed to Covid may have happened anyway. 

 

Note, that's just my personal view, which is not based on any scientific study or data. 

Cheers

[JudyJudyJudy]

7 minutes ago, InternationalJambo said:

What done it for me was 4-5 posters jumping on a comment i made when i first posted on this thread around vaccines being made compulsory in EU countries. FootballFirst was one of them, you could probably guess the other few...

Yes unfortunately there seems to be distinct lack of people advocating against pro choice about one’s body . It’s quite alarming .where will it end ? 

[Footballfirst]

5 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Yes I would agree . The readyness to accepting restrictions , vaccine passports etc without any concern on the impact on others has been very concerning . 

Now I understand what you are getting at.  I think you have misinterpreted my comment, although I find your assertion about my readiness to accept restrictions a bit odd.  I know that you have openly admitted not adhering to the restrictions. To me, that is selfish and when repeated over and over by like minded people will undoubtedly add to the spread of the virus, e.g. had you been adhering to the restrictions when you became infected yourself.

 

Now let me clarify the comment about not being "unduly impacted".

Wearing a mask going round the supermarket - not an issue for me and I'm reassured that almost all others do likewise, protecting me and protecting others.

Getting on a bus - as above

Pubs - put a mask on until I'm at a table or going to the toilet - not an issue. I'm happy to be provided with table service and to be supporting the business which seems to be a particular concern to you.

Restaurants - meet my daughter for lunch, asked to check-in - not an issue

Football - I've been to six Lowland League and East of Scotland games since boxing day and a couple of youth games too, just as I would have done regardless of restrictions.

 

Going by your comments, it seems that it's YOU who appears to be put out by the restrictions because it affects YOUR lifestyle and choices.

[NANOJAMBO]

36 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

I've managed to find ONS figures from 2015-2019 for the corresponding (England & Wales) deaths with Influenza or Pneumonia as the underlying cause 

2015	29,847
2016	27,464
2017	27,595
2018	29,451
2019	26,342

 

While there were only 16,079 similarly recoded deaths in 2020, my take on the reduction is that those who were vulnerable to dying from flu or pneumonia, were equally or more vulnerable to dying from Covid, so perhaps maybe 10,000 of the deaths attributed to Covid may have happened anyway. 

 

Note, that's just my personal view, which is not based on any scientific study or data. 

Or mask wearing, social distancing and just not going out etc reduced transmission rates. 

Not that I'm disagreeing with you. 

[NANOJAMBO]

1 minute ago, Footballfirst said:

Now I understand what you are getting at.  I think you have misinterpreted my comment, although I find your assertion about my readiness to accept restrictions a bit odd.  I know that you have openly admitted not adhering to the restrictions. To me, that is selfish and when repeated over and over by like minded people will undoubtedly add to the spread of the virus, e.g. had you been adhering to the restrictions when you became infected yourself.

 

Now let me clarify the comment about not being "unduly impacted".

Wearing a mask going round the supermarket - not an issue for me and I'm reassured that almost all others do likewise, protecting me and protecting others.

Getting on a bus - as above

Pubs - put a mask on until I'm at a table or going to the toilet - not an issue. I'm happy to be provided with table service and to be supporting the business which seems to be a particular concern to you.

Restaurants - meet my daughter for lunch, asked to check-in - not an issue

Football - I've been to six Lowland League and East of Scotland games since boxing day and a couple of youth games too, just as I would have done regardless of restrictions.

 

Going by your comments, it seems that it's YOU who appears to be put out by the restrictions because it affects YOUR lifestyle and choices.

[Footballfirst]

24 minutes ago, InternationalJambo said:

What done it for me was 4-5 posters jumping on a comment i made when i first posted on this thread around vaccines being made compulsory in EU countries. FootballFirst was one of them, you could probably guess the other few...

Could you point me to the post where I "jumped on" a comment by you about compulsory vaccines 

[Victorian]

Humbling performance of patience and inner calm and contentment by FF.  Above and beyond the call of duty in the face of the usual snash.  Lad deserves a rest and a medal.  

[InternationalJambo]

12 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

Could you point me to the post where I "jumped on" a comment by you about compulsory vaccines 

You can look yourself and quote it here. Condescending comments regarding if my parents got me vaccinated as a child when the point of my post was to exclaim people should have the choice to decide if they want to be vaccinated or not was way below the belt & quite frankly diminished what credibility i held towards you as a poster. 

 

6 minutes ago, Victorian said:

Humbling performance of patience and inner calm and contentment by FF.  Above and beyond the call of duty in the face of the usual snash.  Lad deserves a rest and a medal.  

Are the few weeks up yet?

Edited January 19, 2022 by InternationalJambo

[JudyJudyJudy]

11 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

Now I understand what you are getting at.  I think you have misinterpreted my comment, although I find your assertion about my readiness to accept restrictions a bit odd.  I know that you have openly admitted not adhering to the restrictions. To me, that is selfish and when repeated over and over by like minded people will undoubtedly add to the spread of the virus, e.g. had you been adhering to the restrictions when you became infected yourself.

 

Now let me clarify the comment about not being "unduly impacted".

Wearing a mask going round the supermarket - not an issue for me and I'm reassured that almost all others do likewise, protecting me and protecting others.

Getting on a bus - as above

Pubs - put a mask on until I'm at a table or going to the toilet - not an issue. I'm happy to be provided with table service and to be supporting the business which seems to be a particular concern to you.

Restaurants - meet my daughter for lunch, asked to check-in - not an issue

Football - I've been to six Lowland League and East of Scotland games since boxing day and a couple of youth games too, just as I would have done regardless of restrictions.

 

Going by your comments, it seems that it's YOU who appears to be put out by the restrictions because it affects YOUR lifestyle and choices.

I think losing one’s business is a major impact on a person . It’s not all about you or I having minor inconveniences . Mine was not havin my family Xmas night out before Xmas as the venue cancelled it . As for most pubs I won’t go in then until I’m free to wonder as I please in them . 

[Victorian]

2 minutes ago, InternationalJambo said:

 

 

Are the few weeks up yet?

 

As it happens... aye.

 

You'll be one of these people who tend to be too busy wailing about getting on with it to notice that that's what's actually happening.  

 

What will you wail about when you do notice?  Looks like you'll miss the pandemic.  

[InternationalJambo]

Just now, Victorian said:

 

As it happens... aye.

 

You'll be one of these people who tend to be too busy wailing about getting on with it to notice that that's what's actually happening.  

 

What will you wail about when you do notice?  Looks like you'll miss the pandemic.  

 

[Victorian]

1 minute ago, InternationalJambo said:

 

 

Yeah but some of us are getting on with it.  Ready to live with it.  In truth I've been getting on with it for ages.

 

You seem to be oblivious to what's happening.  You must need something to squeal about.  Let it go.

[InternationalJambo]

Just now, Victorian said:

 

Yeah but some of us are getting on with it.  Ready to live with it.  In truth I've been getting on with it for ages.

 

You seem to be oblivious to what's happening.  You must need something to squeal about.  Let it go.

On average over 10 posts a day...

[Victorian]

1 minute ago, InternationalJambo said:

On average over 10 posts a day...

 

So?  Do you have a point because I'm trying to watch my football bets and Star Trek?

[Footballfirst]

13 minutes ago, InternationalJambo said:

You can look yourself and quote it here. Condescending comments regarding if my parents got me vaccinated as a child when the point of my post was to exclaim people should have the choice to decide if they want to be vaccinated or not was way below the belt & quite frankly diminished what credibility i held towards you as a poster. 

I now recall that post. If you feel that I was condescending towards you, then I apologise unreservedly.  It was not intended in that way.

[InternationalJambo]

9 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

So?  Do you have a point because I'm trying to watch my football bets and Star Trek?

 

6 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

I now recall that post. If you feel that I was condescending towards you, then I apologise unreservedly.  It was not intended in that way.

And there it is hook line and sinker… Anyone on here or commenting please realise these posters think they are above you and will jump on anything (even false posting) to try seem above you. Take everything with a grain of salt. 

Edited January 19, 2022 by InternationalJambo

[Nucky Thompson]

5 minutes ago, InternationalJambo said:

 

And there it is hook line and sinker… Anyone on here or commenting please realise these posters think they are above you and will jump on anything (even false posting) to try seem above you. Take everything with a grain of salt. 

That's pretty shite patter considering FF apologised. 

 

[InternationalJambo]

3 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

That's pretty shite patter considering FF apologised. 

 

The fact the poster never engaged in debate when i replied to his original post in regard to the other conversation makes me believe the above post was sent in a patronising manner. 

Edited January 19, 2022 by InternationalJambo

[Footballfirst]

6 minutes ago, InternationalJambo said:

 

And there it is hook line and sinker… Anyone on here or commenting please realise these posters think they are above you and will jump on anything (even false posting) to try seem above you. Take everything with a grain of salt. 

"these posters" - there are all types of posters, particularly on a long running thread like this, conspiracy theorists, toys out the pram types, outlier views, trolls, "critical thinkers", pragmatists, debaters, fact checkers, subject qualified experts.  They all add something. You might not agree with everyone, but they all have a place.

 

Personally I do not see myself as above anyone else, and that has never been my intention, but I will challenge those who spout opinions as fact or make assertions that I know to be wrong. 

[Captain Slog]

41 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Yes unfortunately there seems to be distinct lack of people advocating against pro choice about one’s body . It’s quite alarming .where will it end ? 

James,

 

May I say, without rancour, that i have a completely different take on it from you,

 

I find it alarming that there is a sizeable percentage of the population that refuse to follow guidelines - wear masks, get vaccinated, self isolate,   Over one hundred and fifty thousand people have died in this country from this thing, and i have personally followed all the government guidelines to the letter to try and do my bit to try to stop its further advance by following guidelines set by those whom, although i may despise them politically, will have much better advice than i can get on a forum such as this in order to stop the spread and potentially save even one life.

 

Now i didn't care to have my jabs - i dislike needles but i did.  Don't like my mask, it makes it harder to breath with my asthma.  Hate my social life has dwindled to almost nothing in lockdowns.  Am distraught that people lose their businesses.  Am appalled that other ill people are neglected and die, and that mental health, loneliness must have skyrocketed.

 

But this think is slaughtering so many people, more than anything else, i do what i can to help stop it, with the rest of the population.  I'm at the stage, opposite to you, that i think those that didn't adhere to such measures are truly selfish individuals.  If i can give analogy. i lost a grandfather and great grandfather to two world wars.  They didn't have to go - one came back from Aussie, but they did, for the greater good to protect others.  Little restrictions aren't too great an ask compared to what they did.

 

James, I like your posts, You've educated me on other topics with them.  Love to go for a pint  - with mask.  I'm a bit scared to post here as some other posters are going to jump on and rip me as they disagree with my views, and it all feels very partisan, black or white.   But I'd ask you to just to reflect there are other views, probably neither of us is right, and urge people to come to a consensus rather than the fallout.

 

And by the way, I do understand you do your bit guideline wise, even though i disagree with your views, i do feel you should continue your posting as healthy debate is good, just don;t like the polarisation on here.

[InternationalJambo]

6 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

"these posters" - there are all types of posters, particularly on a long running thread like this, conspiracy theorists, toys out the pram types, outlier views, trolls, "critical thinkers", pragmatists, debaters, fact checkers, subject qualified experts.  They all add something. You might not agree with everyone, but they all have a place.

 

Personally I do not see myself as above anyone else, and that has never been my intention, but I will challenge those who spout opinions as fact or make assertions that I know to be wrong. 

Indeed there is and i understand posters have different points of view towards the situations that arise, but that isn't my point. My point is, as you well know, this thread has been hijacked to suit a certain narrative. Anyone with a different viewpoint is lambasted, spoke down to & labelled whatever. 

 

Personally, i think you do. What you've also seemed to be doing is jumping on posters who have opinions opposite to yours with "facts", but not reciprocating it the other way. But i'll leave it there. 

Edited January 19, 2022 by InternationalJambo

[Victorian]

43 minutes ago, InternationalJambo said:

You can look yourself and quote it here. Condescending comments regarding if my parents got me vaccinated as a child when the point of my post was to exclaim people should have the choice to decide if they want to be vaccinated or not was way below the belt & quite frankly diminished what credibility i held towards you as a poster. 

 

Are the few weeks up yet?

 

15 minutes ago, InternationalJambo said:

The fact the poster never engaged in debate when i replied to his original post in regard to the other conversation makes me believe the above post was sent in a patronising manner. 

 

Erm,  you yourself jumped in trying to be arsey with your few weeks quip.  You didn't exactly invite friendly engagement.

 

Try not being arsey in the first place because you're more likely to get a better response.

 

Amirite?

Edited January 19, 2022 by Victorian

[Footballfirst]

1 minute ago, InternationalJambo said:

Indeed there is and i understand posters have different points of view towards the situations that arise, but that isn't my point. My point is, as you well know, this thread has been hijacked to suit a certain narrative. Anyone with a different viewpoint is lambasted, spoke down to & labelled whatever. 

 

Personally, i think you do. What you've also seemed to be doing is jumping on posters who have opinions opposite to yours, but not reciprocating it the other way. But i'll leave it there. 

Re your first paragraph, I don't think it has been hijacked, but as Captain Slog pointed out above the debate has become polarised.

 

Re your second paragraph, I disagree with you, but I'm happy to leave it there too. 👍

[InternationalJambo]

1 minute ago, Victorian said:

 

 

Erm,  you yourself jumped in trying to be arsey with your few weeks quip.  You didn't exactly invite friendly engagement.

 

Try not being arsey in the first place because you're more likely to get a better response.

 

Amirite?

Oh wow. You are getting worse with each post you send to me. I am talking about in November when I posted on here looking for a debate as to why it was acceptable for governments to introduce fines for citizens not getting their vaccine. I wasn't 'arsey'. But you continue to blow smoke up his arse. 

[Victorian]

Just now, InternationalJambo said:

Oh wow. You are getting worse with each post you send to me. I am talking about in November when I posted on here looking for a debate as to why it was acceptable for governments to introduce fines for citizens not getting their vaccine. I wasn't 'arsey'. But you continue to blow smoke up his arse. 

 

You got arsey with your reply to me.  

 

Anyway,  it's a good idea to think about your own standard of conduct when demanding standards of conduct from others.  Another poster on this thread does the same as a routine.  It's the ovewhelming reason he has to field lots of critical posts.  Nobody likes a rank hypocrite.

[InternationalJambo]

5 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

You got arsey with your reply to me.  

 

Anyway,  it's a good idea to think about your own standard of conduct when demanding standards of conduct from others.  Another poster on this thread does the same as a routine.  It's the ovewhelming reason he has to field lots of critical posts.  Nobody likes a rank hypocrite.

The post you quoted had nothing to do with my reply to you. 

 

You have just literally confirmed my above post for me. So thanks for that. 

 

Just for clarity. 

 

12 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

 

Erm,  you yourself jumped in trying to be arsey with your few weeks quip.  You didn't exactly invite friendly engagement.

 

Try not being arsey in the first place because you're more likely to get a better response.

 

Amirite?

Posters trying to seem above everyone else.

 

Amirite? 

Edited January 19, 2022 by InternationalJambo

[Victorian]

2 minutes ago, InternationalJambo said:

You have just literally confirmed my above post for me. So thanks for that. 

 

Just for clarity. 

 

Posters trying to seem better than everyone else.

 

Amirite? 

 

Just your perception.  I certainly don't have any sense of superiority.  Genuine suggestion though.  Match your own expectations with your own conduct to yield best faith results.  👍

[InternationalJambo]

6 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Just your perception.  I certainly don't have any sense of superiority.  Genuine suggestion though.  Match your own expectations with your own conduct to yield best faith results.  👍

Will do thanks for the life advice 👍

Edited January 19, 2022 by InternationalJambo

[Victorian]

Anyway,  on the subject of getting on with it.  It very much looks like a accelerating shift towards that very thing.  Restrictions and even guidance being swept away and plans being drawn up to install a framework of measures to maintain / sustain the progression back to 'normal'.  Whatever that ends up being.  There's no doubt that the wave is in rapid retreat.  It will be interesting to see where the downward side of this wave settles out at.  Will it keep on declining to the numbers pre-omicron?  Decline further?  Only decline to a level of equilibrium that can't be improved on?  It could be argued that a natural ebbing and flowing of ongoing spread is better than trying to drive it to micro levels and ending up with another wave later on.  

 

Getting on with it is going to have a wide range of meanings to different people.  People should be granted the dignity of dealing with it at their own pace.  For some it's probably going to take an incremental toe in the water to condition themselves back to their previous routines.  Some people wont feel comfortable until they perceive they have placed themselves to exposure of infection.  Others may not feel comfortable until they've actually been infected and recovered.

 

We've all been conditioned to an unnatural state.  It's not going to be all that easy for some people to shake it off.  I wont feel completely normal until I perceive the old spontaneity of life has fully returned.

Edited January 19, 2022 by Victorian

[Ulysses]

3 minutes ago, Victorian said:

We've all been conditioned to an unnatural state.  It's not going to be all that easy for some people to shake it off.  I wont feel completely normal until I perceive the old spontaneity of life has fully returned.

 

Speak for yourself.  I won't feel completely normal until this thread has ****ed off to page 7 or higher.

[Victorian]

1 minute ago, Ulysses said:

 

Speak for yourself.  I won't feel completely normal until this thread has ****ed off to page 7 or higher.

 

That as well. 

 

Maybe falls within the orbit of a natural state or spontaneity.  I wonder how long it would take for such a low and sporadic interest in the topic to facilitate the thread doing that.  

[Roxy Hearts]

1 hour ago, Footballfirst said:

Now I understand what you are getting at.  I think you have misinterpreted my comment, although I find your assertion about my readiness to accept restrictions a bit odd.  I know that you have openly admitted not adhering to the restrictions. To me, that is selfish and when repeated over and over by like minded people will undoubtedly add to the spread of the virus, e.g. had you been adhering to the restrictions when you became infected yourself.

 

Now let me clarify the comment about not being "unduly impacted".

Wearing a mask going round the supermarket - not an issue for me and I'm reassured that almost all others do likewise, protecting me and protecting others.

Getting on a bus - as above

Pubs - put a mask on until I'm at a table or going to the toilet - not an issue. I'm happy to be provided with table service and to be supporting the business which seems to be a particular concern to you.

Restaurants - meet my daughter for lunch, asked to check-in - not an issue

Football - I've been to six Lowland League and East of Scotland games since boxing day and a couple of youth games too, just as I would have done regardless of restrictions.

 

Going by your comments, it seems that it's YOU who appears to be put out by the restrictions because it affects YOUR lifestyle and choices.

Same as me FF apart from the football. I just got on with it also lost my job! I had tickets for the Ross County game and was meant to be taking my eldest grandson to his first Hearts game but couldn't. No probs just have to be another game. 

 

Thanks for all the stats etc. 

[Ulysses]

3 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

That as well. 

 

Maybe falls within the orbit of a natural state or spontaneity.  I wonder how long it would take for such a low and sporadic interest in the topic to facilitate the thread doing that.  

 

We'll see.  It could be reasonably quick; people tend to get bored with a news item once it settles down, and in any case the Vladimir Putin/Russian invasion megathread might be more exciting.

 

I read something somewhere suggesting that we could be heading for a regular series of Covid waves, where things will go "quiet" for a lot of the year but intensify in the winter from around November to February.  How big a wave would be would depend on factors like variants and levels of vaccination; in a good winter Covid would be no more than the subject of a few reliable media headlines, but in a bad winter the level of worry would go up, even to the point of having some restrictions re-introduced for a while. 

 

I've no idea if that will or won't happen, but I think it sounds more plausible than the idea that Covid will quietly go away and things will be normal permanently after that.

[Victorian]

1 minute ago, Ulysses said:

 

We'll see.  It could be reasonably quick; people tend to get bored with a news item once it settles down, and in any case the Vladimir Putin/Russian invasion megathread might be more exciting.

 

I read something somewhere suggesting that we could be heading for a regular series of Covid waves, where things will go "quiet" for a lot of the year but intensify in the winter from around November to February.  How big a wave would be would depend on factors like variants and levels of vaccination; in a good winter Covid would be no more than the subject of a few reliable media headlines, but in a bad winter the level of worry would go up, even to the point of having some restrictions re-introduced for a while. 

 

I've no idea if that will or won't happen, but I think it sounds more plausible than the idea that Covid will quietly go away and things will be normal permanently after that.

 

I tend to think what you suggest is inevitable but perhaps not for years.  As long as infection waves aren't causing clinical crises then I suppose infection waves become more or less irrelevant.  

 

Fairly soon, all things remaining calm,  the requirement to isolate is going to end.  One implication arising from that would be an end to contact tracing.  Another implication is that routine testing will end at some point.  Some targetted testing will remain and surveillance will certainly remain.  

 

It's worth keeping an eye on the forthcoming frameworks of living with it.  What is now incorrectly termed the endemic state.  It will inevitably include some kind of playbook or protocols whereby restrictions are considered and presented to parliamentary decision making.  A hell of a lot of coherent thought is going to have to be put into how best to capture the consideration of people to adhere to things that may be asked of them again.  The kind of (sometimes) political ideology led science anarchy that has gone on is a terrible,  awful and irresponsible obstacle that may come back to bite us.  People seem hell bent on destroying the value of scientific endeavour.  A climate where science is discarded by default in favour of pre-conceived notions is the road to a bad place.  Let's hope that can be be averted.

[Taffin]

1 hour ago, InternationalJambo said:

Indeed there is and i understand posters have different points of view towards the situations that arise, but that isn't my point. My point is, as you well know, this thread has been hijacked to suit a certain narrative. Anyone with a different viewpoint is lambasted, spoke down to & labelled whatever. 

 

Personally, i think you do. What you've also seemed to be doing is jumping on posters who have opinions opposite to yours with "facts", but not reciprocating it the other way. But i'll leave it there. 

 

What your describing has certainly gone on imo, but not from FF. They're an excellent poster and have apologised to you. I'd take it as genuine as he (or she) comes across as a genuine poster. I've asked FF many a question from my opposing standpoint and have always had an informative, respectful and engaging reply despite me evidently having a different opinion.

[InternationalJambo]

3 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

What your describing has certainly gone on imo, but not from FF. They're an excellent poster and have apologised to you. I'd take it as genuine as he (or she) comes across as a genuine poster. I've asked FF many a question from my opposing standpoint and have always had an informative, respectful and engaging reply despite me evidently having a different opinion.

Having had time to process the conversation i'm inclined to agree with you. I did jump the gun on what i imagine to be my preconceived opinion of the poster. 

 

So for that @Footballfirst i do apologise (even though we disagree on a lot of points 😄). You're a poster i watch with interest but i imagine my opinions in relation to yourself have been skewed due to my predetermined view.

[Adam_the_legend]

Devi the doom-monger has changed her tune I see. Unfortunately, those she’s spent the last 2 years radicalising aren’t best pleased 😂😂 

 

 

[XB52]

3 hours ago, Victorian said:

Humbling performance of patience and inner calm and contentment by FF.  Above and beyond the call of duty in the face of the usual snash.  Lad deserves a rest and a medal.  

He is a much better man than me when it comes to arguing with some posters on here. The patience of a saint

[XB52]

2 hours ago, Nucky Thompson said:

That's pretty shite patter considering FF apologised. 

 

Well said. I know we've not exactly agreed on this thread much but the lunatics (on both sides) need called out 

[manaliveits105]

[Unknown user]

1 hour ago, Taffin said:

 

What your describing has certainly gone on imo, but not from FF. They're an excellent poster and have apologised to you. I'd take it as genuine as he (or she) comes across as a genuine poster. I've asked FF many a question from my opposing standpoint and have always had an informative, respectful and engaging reply despite me evidently having a different opinion.

 

I'd suggest that complaining that the narrative of the thread has been hijacked really means no more than the poster liked when one view was dominant and doesn't care for things the other way round.