Coronavirus Super Thread ( merged )

[Taffin]

1 minute ago, Gizmo said:

Not how I'm reading this at all. Last time I'm explaining my own thoughts on the S Govt's proportionate response.

1) Limited data when Omicron hit SA as it was only starting to emerge here. You can't hammer them for having limited data and then complain that they used moderate restrictions to allow them to ingather the required data! Where's that cake...
2) SA scientists Omicron paper urged caution in assuming their findings would be applicable to other countries.
3) S Govt - and most countries, applied limited restrictions and ingathered data. They've now acted on that data. 

 

 

I'm not hammering them. I asked why it makes sense to people to say we don't have enough data to form a relaxed approach but then argue it makes sense to use that same limited data to take action.

 

There's either enough data, or there isn't. If there isn't, then the status quo should continue imo.

 

It certainly wasn't a proportionate response as you put it. Sensible? Cautious? Risk averse? Yes, and whether that was right to gamble on is personal opinion. The reality shows it most certainly wasn't proportionate though in how it actually played out.

 

 

1 minute ago, Gizmo said:

 

No, I don't agree at all. It was a short period of limited restrictions. It stinged, but not as much as the horrendous lockdown last year. 

A full lockdown like last year that lasted months would have been draconian. A short one, not so much. 
Restrictions are probably lifted on day X to allow for whatever framework is required including, I expec,t formally instructing the Police & emergency services, issuing bulletins to affected business sectors, any parliamentary or legal paperwork etc etc.You'd perhaps need to work in civil service or in parliament if you don't feel the speed of government/administration is fast enough. 
 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

12 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

You didn't answer what was entailed within Plan B.  Let me help you with that.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/prime-minister-confirms-move-to-plan-b-in-england

 

Some extracts.

As a result of this concerning data the Prime Minister has acted quickly and with caution, confirming Plan B measures will come into force while more data on vaccine efficacy and disease severity is assessed. Plan B was set out in September and will help to slow the spread of the variant and reduce the chances of the NHS coming under unsustainable pressure, while buying time to deliver more boosters.

 

While it is likely there is some level of reduced vaccine effectiveness against Omicron, it is still too early to determine the extent of this.

 

Everyone should test using a lateral flow device, particularly before entering a high-risk setting involving people you wouldn’t normally come into contact with, or when visiting a vulnerable person. Lateral flow devices remain free of charge and can be collected from local pharmacies.

From Friday 10 December, face coverings will become compulsory in most public indoor venues, such as cinemas, theatres and places of worship. There will be exemptions in venues where it is not practical to wear one, such as when you are eating, drinking or exercising. For that reason, face masks will not be required in hospitality settings.

From Monday 13 December, those who can will be advised to work from home.

From Wednesday 15 December, and subject to parliamentary approval, the NHS Covid Pass on the NHS App will become mandatory for entry into nightclubs and settings where large crowds gather – including unseated indoor events with 500 or more attendees, unseated outdoor events with 4,000 or more attendees and any event with 10,000 or more attendees.

People will be able to demonstrate proof of two vaccine doses via the app. Having considered the evidence since the emergence of Omicron, proof of a negative lateral flow test will also be accepted.

Introducing Covid-status certification from next Wednesday will give businesses a week’s notice, as promised in the government’s proposals for introducing mandatory certification published in September.

 

Those measures were little different from those in Scotland. From boxing day Scotland took additional measures with regard to crowds and nightclubs, which are in the process of being undone.

 

Would I prefer that all restrictions were removed?  .... Yes.

Do I understand why the measures were introduced?  ..... Yes.

Do I feel that I have been unduly put out by those restrictions? ..... No.

I think the businesses which lost revenue well before Xmas and until now might disagree with your unduly not being put out comment . They were . In fact some are to the wall now . 

[JudyJudyJudy]

8 minutes ago, Dazo said:

😂😂😂

 

All those words trying to make the restrictions similar with a nice little paragraph at the end pointing out the glaring difference that caused businesses to close and people to lose jobs. I don’t get why it’s so hard to admit rather than spending so much time trying to pretend the differences, no matter how small were significant in there impact. 

Exactly . 

6 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

I'm not hammering them. I asked why it makes sense to people to say we don't have enough data to form a relaxed approach but then argue it makes sense to use that same limited data to take action.

 

There's either enough data, or there isn't. If there isn't, then the status quo should continue imo.

 

It certainly wasn't a proportionate response as you put it. Sensible? Cautious? Risk averse? Yes, and whether that was right to gamble on is personal opinion. The reality shows it most certainly wasn't proportionate though in how it actually played out.

 

 

 

It Wasn’t a proportionate response . That’s now clear . 

[Dennis Denuto]

7 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

I think the businesses which lost revenue well before Xmas and until now might disagree with your unduly not being put out comment . They were . In fact some are to the wall now . 

Restrictions didn't start until 27th of December, I am pretty sure (willing to be corrected if wrong) but the guidelines before Christmas were the same in England and Scotland.

[JudyJudyJudy]

7 minutes ago, Dennis Denuto said:

Restrictions didn't start until 27th of December, I am pretty sure (willing to be corrected if wrong) but the guidelines before Christmas were the same in England and Scotland.

No NS and her govt urged people not to go out to Xmas parties etc . It was  a hammer blow to Xmas bookings 

[Footballfirst]

14 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

I think the businesses which lost revenue well before Xmas and until now might disagree with your unduly not being put out comment . They were . In fact some are to the wall now . 

The point that I would make is that the guidance/rules in Scotland prior to boxing day were similar to those in England. 

 

Your posts in that regard suggest that only businesses in Scotland were going to the wall and that businesses were flourishing in England. I think that you will find that all the lost business in hospitality settings, as a result of parties being cancelled or people choosing not to risk their Christmas day plans, was felt equally across all parts of the UK. 

[Footballfirst]

7 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

No NS and her govt urged people not to go out to Xmas parties etc . It was  a hammer blow to Xmas bookings 

15 December - The Independent

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/covid-omicron-christmas-boris-johnson-b1976863.html

 

Boris Johnson has urged people to cut back on Christmas partying and “think carefully” before going out during the festive season, as omicron cases hit record levels

[Konrad von Carstein]

Truth bullets being fired... James is dodging like Neo in The Matrix.

 

[Boab]

Meme incoming...!

[Dagger Is Back]

[Dennis Denuto]

40 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

The point that I would make is that the guidance/rules in Scotland prior to boxing day were similar to those in England. 

 

Your posts in that regard suggest that only businesses in Scotland were going to the wall and that businesses were flourishing in England. I think that you will find that all the lost business in hospitality settings, as a result of parties being cancelled or people choosing not to risk their Christmas day plans, was felt equally across all parts of the UK. 

I think the grants available to hospitality were/are higher in Scotland for the Omicron wave as well.

[GBJambo]

On 17/01/2022 at 16:19, GBJambo said:

Yep that’s true , my partner is a mid wife and is going on a course for vaccinations . 

She mentioned £50 Per vaccination

Just had it confirmed it’s £60

per hour 👍

Still pretty decent 

[JudyJudyJudy]

54 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

15 December - The Independent

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/covid-omicron-christmas-boris-johnson-b1976863.html

 

Boris Johnson has urged people to cut back on Christmas partying and “think carefully” before going out during the festive season, as omicron cases hit record levels

Did they close night clubs ? 

[JudyJudyJudy]

16 minutes ago, Dennis Denuto said:

I think the grants available to hospitality were/are higher in Scotland for the Omicron wave as well.

If u could jump through the hoops to get any of it , a friend is still waiting on his. The money seems to be squirrelled away . Quelle surprise 

[JudyJudyJudy]

17 minutes ago, Dennis Denuto said:

I think the grants available to hospitality were/are higher in Scotland for the Omicron wave as well.

You “ think” ? 

[Roxy Hearts]

38 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

Truth bullets being fired... James is dodging like Neo in The Matrix.

 

🤣

[Footballfirst]

4 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

You “ think” ? 

England:

Businesses occupying hereditaments appearing on the local rating list with a rateable value of exactly £15,000 or under on 30 December 2021 will receive a payment of £2,667.

Businesses occupying hereditaments appearing on the local rating list with a rateable value over £15,000 and less than £51,000 on 30 December 2021 will receive a payment of £4,000.

Businesses occupying hereditaments appearing on the local rating list with a rateable value of exactly £51,000 or over on 30 December 2021 will receive a payment of £6,000.

 

Scotland:

£4,500 for premises which have a rateable value of up to and including £51,000, or.

£6,800 for premises have a rateable value of £51,001 or above.

[Boab]

1 minute ago, Footballfirst said:

England:

Businesses occupying hereditaments appearing on the local rating list with a rateable value of exactly £15,000 or under on 30 December 2021 will receive a payment of £2,667.

Businesses occupying hereditaments appearing on the local rating list with a rateable value over £15,000 and less than £51,000 on 30 December 2021 will receive a payment of £4,000.

Businesses occupying hereditaments appearing on the local rating list with a rateable value of exactly £51,000 or over on 30 December 2021 will receive a payment of £6,000.

 

Scotland:

£4,500 for premises which have a rateable value of up to and including £51,000, or.

£6,800 for premises have a rateable value of £51,001 or above.

👍

[Footballfirst]

Sorry I missed the top up announced for Scotland, that you can add to the figures above.

• £1,400 for premises which have a rateable value of up to and including £51,000 or

• £2,100 for premises have a rateable value of £51,001 or above

[Dennis Denuto]

6 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

England:

Businesses occupying hereditaments appearing on the local rating list with a rateable value of exactly £15,000 or under on 30 December 2021 will receive a payment of £2,667.

Businesses occupying hereditaments appearing on the local rating list with a rateable value over £15,000 and less than £51,000 on 30 December 2021 will receive a payment of £4,000.

Businesses occupying hereditaments appearing on the local rating list with a rateable value of exactly £51,000 or over on 30 December 2021 will receive a payment of £6,000.

 

Scotland:

£4,500 for premises which have a rateable value of up to and including £51,000, or.

£6,800 for premises have a rateable value of £51,001 or above.

And there is an extra January top up in Scotland due to the extra level of restrictions

 

Edit - which you have now posted.

Edited January 19, 2022 by Dennis Denuto

[Dennis Denuto]

11 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

If u could jump through the hoops to get any of it , a friend is still waiting on his. The money seems to be squirrelled away . Quelle surprise 

 

11 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

You “ think” ? 

The money is being distributed by local councils in both England and Scotland, the process is no different.

 

Yeah I knew rather than thought it but I don't like to be so black and white in my posts - there is always someone who knows more than you out there.......

[Ex member of the SaS]

21 minutes ago, GBJambo said:

Just had it confirmed it’s £60

per hour 👍

Still pretty decent 

Careful now , you might need a psychiatric nurse according to some on here. You post what you get told from an informed source yet still the covid feardies try to put you down.

[JudyJudyJudy]

51 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

Truth bullets being fired... James is dodging like Neo in The Matrix.

 

No I’m chilled now after dodging  covid . 👍👍  well dodging serious effects of it . Top of the World now 😎

[Nucky Thompson]

14 minutes ago, Dennis Denuto said:

And there is an extra January top up in Scotland due to the extra level of restrictions

 

Edit - which you have now posted.

Pity that a lot of the businesses asked to close after Boxing day are still waiting for any kind of payment 

[Dennis Denuto]

1 minute ago, Nucky Thompson said:

Pity that a lot of the businesses asked to close after Boxing day are still waiting for any kind of payment 

Yes it is, hopefully this is resolved quickly.

 

Maybe if they had used the same systems deployed throughout the Pandemic this wouldn't have been an issue though.

[Nucky Thompson]

UK press conference at 5pm. Probably just confirmation that almost all restrictions will end in England and hopefully an announcement that all tests for foreign travel will be scraped too.

[JudyJudyJudy]

31 minutes ago, Dennis Denuto said:

 

The money is being distributed by local councils in both England and Scotland, the process is no different.

 

Yeah I knew rather than thought it but I don't like to be so black and white in my posts - there is always someone who knows more than you out there.......

Yes Edinburgh has an snp council so that explains it lol 

17 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

Pity that a lot of the businesses asked to close after Boxing day are still waiting for any kind of payment 

I know 

[1874robbo]

3 hours ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

Can you at least agree the restrictions were over the top? No need to destroy companies with such draconian measures when the majority of the population was vaccinated. Had they wanted restrictions as a precaution, then why did they go over board and having decided to lift restrictions why wait until Money to do so? Why not allow the game on Friday night to have fans? What difference does it make to their agenda if restrictions were lifted early? Pubs and night clubs could have had this weekend to make money but now have to wait until next weekend.

Because coronavirus is clever and knows it’s the weekend and would be out trawling then nightclubs for victims.

Don’t ask silly questions mate 

[milky_26]

26 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

UK press conference at 5pm. Probably just confirmation that almost all restrictions will end in England and hopefully an announcement that all tests for foreign travel will be scraped too.

I am expecting it will be the travel restrictions that are removed/relaxed that SJ announces

[dobmisterdobster]

These restrictions must not return at a later date.

 

Tory Rebels must keep up the pressure on Boris.

[PapaShango]

2 hours ago, JamesM48 said:

No NS and her govt urged people not to go out to Xmas parties etc . It was  a hammer blow to Xmas bookings 

Exactly, most workplaces cancelled on the back of this, which would be a hammer blow for hospitality and the supply chain. The restrictions were no way proportionate and were political in the extreme. She should be held to account, quite clear that yet again she gets money from UK Government that isn't being passed on but stashed away for something else. An absolute shambles of a political party and corrupt to the core. 

[PapaShango]

45 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

UK press conference at 5pm. Probably just confirmation that almost all restrictions will end in England and hopefully an announcement that all tests for foreign travel will be scraped too.

No chance of Scotland following suit though, we are going to be landed with face masks and other restrictions for months, keeps them on the tv and try and stay relevant. The masks need to go, especially in schools. These clowns in Parliament swan around mask less while asking school kids to wear them all day. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, PapaShango said:

Exactly, most workplaces cancelled on the back of this, which would be a hammer blow for hospitality and the supply chain. The restrictions were no way proportionate and were political in the extreme. She should be held to account, quite clear that yet again she gets money from UK Government that isn't being passed on but stashed away for something else. An absolute shambles of a political party and corrupt to the core. 

 

[Footballfirst]

48 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

UK press conference at 5pm. Probably just confirmation that almost all restrictions will end in England and hopefully an announcement that all tests for foreign travel will be scraped too.

The BBC is reporting that arrival testing will remain for the moment.

[Ex member of the SaS]

45 minutes ago, 1874robbo said:

Because coronavirus is clever and knows it’s the weekend and would be out trawling then nightclubs for victims.

Don’t ask silly questions mate 

Sorry I forgot that it also know how to tell the time and only comes out after 10 pm. 

[Ex member of the SaS]

6 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

The BBC is reporting that arrival testing will remain for the moment.

I would say arrival tests should stay, had they introduced them earlier we could have avoided a lot of what went wrong.

[Ex member of the SaS]

With the increase in bird flu how long before they claim a hybrid virus and we are all back to square one?

[The Real Maroonblood]

4 minutes ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

With the increase in bird flu how long before they claim a hybrid virus and we are all back to square one?

Keep your pecker up.

[Taffin]

Freedom day 2.0 inbound.

 

Delightful.

[milky_26]

nothing different from what was said earlier in house of commons

[theshed]

53 minutes ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

I would say arrival tests should stay, had they introduced them earlier we could have avoided a lot of what went wrong.

 

It’s a total waste of time and nothing more than money making exercise.

More than half the people don’t even do the test and if they do they never get the results 

 

 

[Captain Slog]

6 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

Once again you fail to comprehend the figures.  I supplied you with the figures for Scotland the other day.

 

Here are the figures for England and Wales.

2021 - Covid deaths reported daily (28 day measure) - 68,177

 

..... and what the ONS reports

2021 - Covid mentioned on death certificates (ONS) - 76,094

2021 - Covid deemed the underlying cause (ONS) - 66,073 (87%)

 

Which part of 66,073 with an "underlying cause" of Covid don't you understand? 

 

And just for perspective, 2021 - Influenza or pneumonia deemed the underlying cause (ONS) - 16,079

May I ask a question, because I genuinely don't know

 

When I look here,https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/

it states last 7 days Coronavirus deaths are 1.865 (uk not england like your figures).  That would be 96.980 per year.

 

Even if I knock of 10 per cent to allow for Scotland and NI, still seems the trend is higher than last year.  What am I missing that makes things so much better that they wont have restrictions in England anymore?  Figs seem higher to me

 

Edited January 19, 2022 by Captain Slog

[Taffin]

5 minutes ago, Captain Slog said:

May I ask a question, because I genuinely don't know

 

When I look here,https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/

it states last 7 days Coronavirus deaths are 1.865 (uk not england like your figures).  That would be 96.980 per year.

 

Even if I knock of 10 per cent to allow for Scotland and NI, still seems the trend is higher than last year.  What am I missing that makes things so much better that they wont have restrictions in England anymore?  Figs seem higher to me

 

 

It was nearly that amount per DAY this time last year iirc.

[JudyJudyJudy]

Wee Macron was boosting about their lockdowns and vaccine passports too

 

COVID-19 in Europe: Record case numbers in France and Germany as Omicron spreads (msn.com)

[Dennis Denuto]

6 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Wee Macron was boosting about their lockdowns and vaccine passports too

 

COVID-19 in Europe: Record case numbers in France and Germany as Omicron spreads (msn.com)

 

6 hours ago, JamesM48 said:

I am interested in Scotland and our cousins down south . Not any other countries responses. Both their responses may have impacted on me. Whatever Sweden et al  did or didn't do didn't impact on me. 

Within the space of a few hours James!!

 

Definitely not trolling though. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, Dennis Denuto said:

 

Within the space of a few hours James!!

 

Definitely not trolling though. 

Proving my point they are a waste of time. Why doesn't SG note this?  Maybe should be asking that 

[Footballfirst]

33 minutes ago, Captain Slog said:

May I ask a question, because I genuinely don't know

 

When I look here, it states last 7 days Coronavirus deaths are 1.865 (uk not england like your figures).  That would be 96.980 per year.

 

Even if I knock of 10 per cent to allow for Scotland and NI, still seems the trend is higher than last year.  What am I missing that makes things so much better that they wont have restrictions in England anymore?  Figs seem higher to me

 

You are correct in your observations.  

 

The worst death rates we have seen during the pandemic were in January 2021, when rates were over 1,000 a day.  The following month saw the situation improve as the vaccination programme was gathering pace.

 

Also in February 2021, the much maligned modelers provided input to the planned exit framework that would lead up to the so called "freedom day" in mid summer of 2021.  Their forecast for deaths was 55,000 from February 2021 up to June 2022 (the range was between 34,000 to 85,000). That was accepted by the UK government, so is an indication what level of deaths is considered tolerable.

 

Since the publication of the framework we have recorded around 40,000 deaths over 11 months of the 16 in the forecast period. Should the current death rate continue, it would come in at the high end of the (accepted) forecast.  What was not factored into the forecast was the emergence of first the Delta and Omicron variants.

 

Thankfully, the vaccination programme has also reached a larger proportion of the population than expected so has suppressed the potential increase due to the new variants.  I'm sure that the scientists are monitoring things closely and keeping all the UK governments advised.  While the current death rate will be a concern, I believe that scientists will anticipate that the rate will start to fall two to three weeks after the fall in case numbers (i.e. within the next week or so).   

Edited January 19, 2022 by Footballfirst

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

7 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

Once again you fail to comprehend the figures.  I supplied you with the figures for Scotland the other day.

 

Here are the figures for England and Wales.

2021 - Covid deaths reported daily (28 day measure) - 68,177

 

..... and what the ONS reports

2021 - Covid mentioned on death certificates (ONS) - 76,094

2021 - Covid deemed the underlying cause (ONS) - 66,073 (87%)

 

Which part of 66,073 with an "underlying cause" of Covid don't you understand? 

 

And just for perspective, 2021 - Influenza or pneumonia deemed the underlying cause (ONS) - 16,079

 for further perspective those flu or pneumonia numbers how do they look compared to pre-covid years ?

 

 

 

 

[InternationalJambo]

5 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

Do I feel that I have been unduly put out by those restrictions? ..... No.

Oh dear..

Edited January 19, 2022 by InternationalJambo

[JudyJudyJudy]

8 minutes ago, InternationalJambo said:

Oh dear..

“ mind myself “ came to mind when I read that .