Coronavirus Super Thread ( merged )

[Nucky Thompson]

4 minutes ago, Gizmo said:

"The data is inconclusive". 

That's them telt, then. 🙄

Did you read the whole article Gizmo and if you did, what was your conclusion?

 

 

 

[Gizmo]

14 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

Did you read the whole article Gizmo and if you did, what was your conclusion?

 

 

 

My conclusion is, without using hindsight, that a 3-week set of restrictions to assess impact on a country is a sensible approach. How it bears out should not be used to score political points - if they KEPT ineffective or unneccessary restrictions, then yes - have at it. 

Incidentally, I find it amusing that the same people who told me under no circumstances could two countries be compared (when I mooted that having no land borders afforded us better opportunities for a strong delta lockdown a la New Zealand) immediately leapt on the "its mild its mild" news from S Africa.

A lot of cake and eat it scenarios which are fine for randoms on forums, but not the manner in which any legitimate government should make critical health decisions affecting an entire country. 👍

[ri Alban]

Big number of deaths again. 438 deaths,

Cases 95,000. 

 

 

Feck this thing.

[Dennis Denuto]

14 hours ago, Taffin said:

 

That's precisely why Covid shouldn't have been drawn down traditional political ideology imo.

 

I agree with a lot of people on covid despite finding their views on other things abhorrent.

 

Part of my belief system on covid is personal responsibility and freedoms, which is consistent with believing someone should be free to express themselves without fear and as an equal as a homosexual, despite what others views on it may be. Those are consistent imo. Just because Stephen Kerr is inconsistent and imo wrong one one topic, doesn't mean he's by default wrong on another.

I am certain that there are many horrible individuals that I have the same view as on a number of topics, but I am also certain that I wouldn't go quoting them on the internet just to try and prove my point.

 

I 100% wouldn't use someone who thought I was in someway a lesser human than themselves because of my race, sexuality or status to try and prove my point.  Of ten if you find yourself on the same side of any argument as these individuals then it is time to have a wee check to see if you are on the right side of the argument.

[Taffin]

4 minutes ago, Dennis Denuto said:

I am certain that there are many horrible individuals that I have the same view as on a number of topics, but I am also certain that I wouldn't go quoting them on the internet just to try and prove my point.

 

I 100% wouldn't use someone who thought I was in someway a lesser human than themselves because of my race, sexuality or status to try and prove my point.  Of ten if you find yourself on the same side of any argument as these individuals then it is time to have a wee check to see if you are on the right side of the argument.

 

Agreed, but that's why Covid doesn't align to that test. There's odious characters on either side. 

[Dennis Denuto]

1 minute ago, Taffin said:

 

Agreed, but that's why Covid doesn't align to that test. There's odious characters on either side. 

I would argue there is more to one side than the other, but that’s not to say they are necessarily wrong in this instance. 
 

Like I said just don’t use them to back up your point. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 hour ago, Taffin said:

 

Agreed, but that's why Covid doesn't align to that test. There's odious characters on either side. 

Correct .  Some people really need to live in the real world. There are people with dubious views who can also have less dubious views.  Its not just black and white.  Anyone who is in tandem with me regarding my covid views is fine with me in regards to that issue . However maybe not so with other issues. Its that simple. Strange bedfellows and all. 

 

As a gay person I've constantly had to bite my tongue at times in company of some people,  and your not telling me that Tynecastle is a bastion of tolerance ?  I still attend there.   People have their views and if it impacts me directly then its an issue , if it doesn't so what. I think some people live in the woke type world where everyone is or should be tolerant. Sorry there will never be 100% tolerance of anyone irrespective of sexual orientation, race. religion, sex etc. Be great if there was.

 

Anyways this is off topic but it was related to covid initially.   

[Dennis Denuto]

8 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Correct .  Some people really need to live in the real world. There are people with dubious views who can also have less dubious views.  Its not just black and white.  Anyone who is in tandem with me regarding my covid views is fine with me in regards to that issue . However maybe not so with other issues. Its that simple. Strange bedfellows and all. 

 

As a gay person I've constantly had to bite my tongue at times in company of some people,  and your not telling me that Tynecastle is a bastion of tolerance ?  I still attend there.   People have their views and if it impacts me directly then its an issue , if it doesn't so what. I think some people live in the woke type world where everyone is or should be tolerant. Sorry there will never be 100% tolerance of anyone irrespective of sexual orientation, race. religion, sex etc. Be great if there was.

 

Anyways this is off topic but it was related to covid initially.   

It is more Covid related than the 5000 gifs you have posted on the thread.

 

I also look forward to your new tolerant posts towards others that you do not agree with and towards Nicola Sturgeon especially.

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, Dennis Denuto said:

It is more Covid related than the 5000 gifs you have posted on the thread.

 

I also look forward to your new tolerant posts towards others that you do not agree with and towards Nicola Sturgeon especially.

Re read my comments. I said that some people have views others dont like. That's life. Some people are less tolerant of others . That's life. Stop living in fantasy island. Ill continue to write anything I want ( within the accepted parameters)  about NS and  her stooges  as she and they  make decisions which have directly impacted on my life.  As far as I am aware Stephen Kerr has made no decisions which have impacted on my life. I assume that some on this thought I would be so offended by his comments that I would back track in my support of his covid views. . It doesn't work like that.  Like i have said I don't vote or make decisions due to my penis. 

[The Mighty Thor]

14 minutes ago, Dennis Denuto said:

It is more Covid related than the 5000 gifs you have posted on the thread.

 

I also look forward to your new tolerant posts towards others that you do not agree with and towards Nicola Sturgeon especially.

No GIFS and no Nippy/Adolfa/Chief Mammy?

 

😂

 

No posts.

[JudyJudyJudy]

Just now, The Mighty Thor said:

No GIFS and no Nippy/Adolfa/Chief Mammy?

 

😂

 

No posts.

 

[Ex member of the SaS]

15 hours ago, Gizmo said:

Thin edge of the wedge? I beg to differ - and I don't have a "way of thinking", I have a clear and consistent view, based on what I hear, read, see and experience - derived from a wide range of sources. 

I bet I was one of a mere handful on this thread who actually read the SA Omicron paper.

The Scottish Govt, the Welsh Govt, the N Irish government, the French govt, the Swedish govt etc etc all took a pragmatic, initially cautious approach, based on the known facts and also because it was an emergent situation, to allow them to assess the impact on their own countries, with their unique combination of demographics, vaccination levels etc.  

We've done this and we have NOT went "haud on a minute", we've went - good, the data is confirming that mild restrictions against a variant that has been less harmful to our populace but wildly transmissible, have not been very effective. Nor is a heavily restrictive lockdown indicated as being a proportionate or useful approach. So we unlock these milder restrictions. What is there to be angry about, exactly - this is the measured response I would expect of a functioning government. 

A sensible, cautious but adaptable approach whilst we give ourselves a little time to assess the impact on us and ingather data. 

So I'll rebutt your jibe about my problematic thinking and suggest that if one of us needs a rethink, it's not me. 

initially cautious approach, based on the known facts .

 

Where did they get these facts? SA had the only cases so obviously they used those Facts, no?

 

Sa have a small number of vaccinated and a large number with aids

We have a large number vaccinated and a very small number with aids

SA said they saw numbers of aids victims coming to hospital only to be tested and found to have covid ( otherwise they would not have known they had it ) they also stated the effects were low, so fast forward to the uk and Whitty and Scotland/Wales decide it's the worst ever and simply because the Tories rebelled, England did nothing, while Wales and Scotland put in measures that were over the top ( 500 at football ), closed hospitality.

Had they suggested only season ticket holders and no away fans at football and LFT for pubs it would have been a more measured response.

Now they decide they got it wrong and are taking away those restrictions, BUT they wouldn't allow fans at the Friday night game and are waiting until Monday, thus taking away another weekend's takings from hospitality. And you think they got it right?

[Ex member of the SaS]

5 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Big number of deaths again. 438 deaths,

Cases 95,000. 

 

 

Feck this thing.

Once again with the death figures,

 

Death DUE TO ANY CAUSE WITHIN 28 DAYS OF A TEST.

438 deaths for any reason out of 67.22 million people puts it in perspective.

[manaliveits105]

8 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Re read my comments. I said that some people have views others dont like. That's life. Some people are less tolerant of others . That's life. Stop living in fantasy island. Ill continue to write anything I want ( within the accepted parameters)  about NS and  her stooges  as she and they  make decisions which have directly impacted on my life.  As far as I am aware Stephen Kerr has made no decisions which have impacted on my life. I assume that some on this thought I would be so offended by his comments that I would back track in my support of his covid views. . It doesn't work like that.  Like i have said I don't vote or make decisions due to my penis. 

Well said !

 

Looks like Nippoleon is going to relax restrictions but of course with caveats to maintain her control 

For example the discussions with business regarding continuance of working from home ? - leave it up to business to decide if viable and think of all the ancillary businesses who rely on people going into work / offices just butt oot and concentrate on your governments failings 

[Taffin]

The bit I don't get in regards to the approach to Omicron is people saying it would have been wrong to assume it would play out like it did in SA based on limited data. What was the data they used to decide it was bad and did warrant restrictions? 

[Herbert.]

3 minutes ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

Once again with the death figures,

 

Death DUE TO ANY CAUSE WITHIN 28 DAYS OF A TEST.

438 deaths for any reason out of 67.22 million people puts it in perspective.

 

 

There will be a guy swinging from a rope and it will be covid that got him.

[JudyJudyJudy]

3 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

Well said !

 

Looks like Nippoleon is going to relax restrictions but of course with caveats to maintain her control 

For example the discussions with business regarding continuance of working from home ? - leave it up to business to decide if viable and think of all the ancillary businesses who rely on people going into work / offices just butt oot and concentrate on your governments failings 

Cheers.  I live in the real world.

 

Yes she cant let go cant she? Always has to have some level of control without thinking of the consequences to those businesses etc. Its desperate stuff from her now. Luckily its her last hurrah with restrictions etc . Roll on Indy 2 and the vote. 

 

 

[Dennis Denuto]

8 minutes ago, Taffin said:

The bit I don't get in regards to the approach to Omicron is people saying it would have been wrong to assume it would play out like it did in SA based on limited data. What was the data they used to decide it was bad and did warrant restrictions? 

I think that would be the previous waves and the data on the reducing immunity in the population. That is why the main measure was to boost the booster program. 

 

Now hopefully they have learned that if you think you need a booster program again then run it at full speed from day one.

[Taffin]

8 minutes ago, Dennis Denuto said:

I think that would be the previous waves and the data on the reducing immunity in the population. That is why the main measure was to boost the booster program. 

 

Now hopefully they have learned that if you think you need a booster program again then run it at full speed from day one.

 

There were no previous waves of Omicron though. If we were basing it off delta data then surely we'd have just continued with how we were tackling delta? How did they know immunity against Omicron was reducing?

 

To me they just panicked again and took a punt. Same as those who took a punt (at least backed up by SA data) that it wouldn't lead to much.

 

Were they wrong to? Matter of opinion, but if there's was insufficient data not to act, there was also insufficient data to act imo.

[Dennis Denuto]

2 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

There were no previous waves of Omicron though. If we were basing it off delta data then surely we'd have just continued with how we were tackling delta? How did they know immunity against Omicron was reducing?

 

To me they just panicked again and took a punt. Same as those who took a punt (at least backed up by SA data) that it wouldn't lead to much.

 

Were they wrong to? Matter of opinion, but if there's was insufficient data not to act, there was also insufficient data to act imo.

I am not going to pretend to know any more than you Taff, I jus think they had evidence that this was more transmissible and that it had some vaccine escape, they also had data from the ongoing studies that the populations immunity was dropping - to me that is what drove the idea behind caution and restrictions. The same that drove the booster program to be doubled in capacity.

 

I have to say that I did not support increased restrictions when they were brought in.

[Footballfirst]

39 minutes ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

Once again with the death figures,

 

Death DUE TO ANY CAUSE WITHIN 28 DAYS OF A TEST.

438 deaths for any reason out of 67.22 million people puts it in perspective.

Once again you fail to comprehend the figures.  I supplied you with the figures for Scotland the other day.

 

Here are the figures for England and Wales.

2021 - Covid deaths reported daily (28 day measure) - 68,177

 

..... and what the ONS reports

2021 - Covid mentioned on death certificates (ONS) - 76,094

2021 - Covid deemed the underlying cause (ONS) - 66,073 (87%)

 

Which part of 66,073 with an "underlying cause" of Covid don't you understand? 

 

And just for perspective, 2021 - Influenza or pneumonia deemed the underlying cause (ONS) - 16,079

[JudyJudyJudy]

39 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

There were no previous waves of Omicron though. If we were basing it off delta data then surely we'd have just continued with how we were tackling delta? How did they know immunity against Omicron was reducing?

 

To me they just panicked again and took a punt. Same as those who took a punt (at least backed up by SA data) that it wouldn't lead to much.

 

Were they wrong to? Matter of opinion, but if there's was insufficient data not to act, there was also insufficient data to act imo.

One country looked at the data and made a sensible measured response, taking a more holistic view of the harm restrictions may do and another country took an over cautious and risk averse approach. I prefered the first countries response. 

[Dennis Denuto]

7 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

One country looked at the data and made a sensible measured response, taking a more holistic view of the harm restrictions may do and another country took an over cautious and risk averse approach. I prefered the first countries response. 

There was One country that made the choice to advise people not to go out and introduced VPs and masking - all measures you didn't support in Scotland.

 

There were loads of countries that introduced varying degrees of extra restrictions than the above, Scotland being one of the countries that introduced fewer restrictions than most.

 

This is still ongoing around the world right now.

 

At least be honest in your revisionism James.

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, Dennis Denuto said:

There was One country that made the choice to advise people not to go out and introduced VPs and masking - all measures you didn't support in Scotland.

 

There were loads of countries that introduced varying degrees of extra restrictions than the above, Scotland being one of the countries that introduced fewer restrictions than most.

 

This is still ongoing around the world right now.

 

At least be honest in your revisionism James.

I am interested in Scotland and our cousins down south . Not any other countries responses. Both their responses may have impacted on me. Whatever Sweden et al  did or didn't do didn't impact on me. 

[Taffin]

51 minutes ago, Dennis Denuto said:

I am not going to pretend to know any more than you Taff, I jus think they had evidence that this was more transmissible and that it had some vaccine escape, they also had data from the ongoing studies that the populations immunity was dropping - to me that is what drove the idea behind caution and restrictions. The same that drove the booster program to be doubled in capacity.

 

I have to say that I did not support increased restrictions when they were brought in.

 

That's fair, certainly not looking to argue you with you 👍

[Dennis Denuto]

Just now, JamesM48 said:

I am interested in Scotland and our cousins down south . Not any other countries responses. Both their responses may have impacted on me. Whatever Sweden et al  did or didn't do didn't impact on me. 

And let me guess - South Africa as well maybe??

 

You are clearly just trolling the thread now James - 👋

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 minutes ago, Dennis Denuto said:

And let me guess - South Africa as well maybe??

 

You are clearly just trolling the thNoread now James - 👋

Now dont be silly. Really of course i like others was interested in the data from South Africa. Im talking about other countries restrictions. 

[Dennis Denuto]

5 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Now dont be silly. Really of course i like others was interested in the data from South Africa. Im talking about other countries restrictions. 

So you supported Vaccine Passports introduction in England?

[JudyJudyJudy]

3 minutes ago, Dennis Denuto said:

So you supported Vaccine Passports introduction in England?

Oh Dennis don’t be silly 😜 

[Dennis Denuto]

Just now, JamesM48 said:

Oh Dennis don’t be silly 😜 

So you didn't support the measures in England then? 

 

Don't post stupid gifs in the middle of a debate and accuse the other person of being silly - it makes you look like you are trolling.

[JudyJudyJudy]

6 minutes ago, Dennis Denuto said:

So you didn't support the measures in England then? 

 

Don't post stupid gifs in the middle of a debate and accuse the other person of being silly - it makes you look like you are trolling.

Your not debating , your just trolling me . Your pissed off because you were called out regarding your Stephen Kerr revelation so trying to salvage some pride back by rambling on about this issue which has been done to death . Stop flogging a dead horse 🐎 the gif is expressing my total disinterest in your trolling . I’m chilled . I thought that was obvious . 

[Dennis Denuto]

6 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Your not debating , your just trolling me . Your pissed off because you were called out regarding your Stephen Kerr revelation so trying to salvage some pride back by rambling on about this issue which has been done to death . Stop flogging a dead horse 🐎 the gif is expressing my total disinterest in your trolling . I’m chilled . I thought that was obvious . 

Called out regarding Stephen Kerr? I gave my opinion, you gave yours - I now think a wee bit less of you as a result, but I am very comfortable with my position.

 

You keep going on about England v Scotland in the restrictions stakes but are not willing to talk about the restrictions you didn't support that were also introduced into England.

[Gizmo]

2 hours ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

initially cautious approach, based on the known facts .

 

Where did they get these facts? SA had the only cases so obviously they used those Facts, no?

 

Sa have a small number of vaccinated and a large number with aids

We have a large number vaccinated and a very small number with aids

SA said they saw numbers of aids victims coming to hospital only to be tested and found to have covid ( otherwise they would not have known they had it ) they also stated the effects were low, so fast forward to the uk and Whitty and Scotland/Wales decide it's the worst ever and simply because the Tories rebelled, England did nothing, while Wales and Scotland put in measures that were over the top ( 500 at football ), closed hospitality.

Had they suggested only season ticket holders and no away fans at football and LFT for pubs it would have been a more measured response.

Now they decide they got it wrong and are taking away those restrictions, BUT they wouldn't allow fans at the Friday night game and are waiting until Monday, thus taking away another weekend's takings from hospitality. And you think they got it right?

DId I say they got it "right"? No, I said they acted in good faith and took the advice and data from South Africa and waited, sensibly, to see if it played out the same here. Are YOU gonna gamble with people's lifes because you made a laymen's bet based on a couple of headlines? Possibly - but a government most certainly should not. 

 

1 hour ago, Taffin said:

The bit I don't get in regards to the approach to Omicron is people saying it would have been wrong to assume it would play out like it did in SA based on limited data. What was the data they used to decide it was bad and did warrant restrictions? 

The data was X times more transmissible than Delta - that is what worried countries initially, particularly given that some parts of Europe including the UK have had high case percentage numbers already. They told us this - it might be less severe but with that potential transmission factor they still believe it *could* overwhelm the NHS. 

Also, the other data was the advice from the preprint SA paper on Omicron which cautioned against assuming that Omicron would play out exactly the same in other territories.

I'd have taken the same view to put in place limited restrictions and allow a short wait-and-see policy given the above.   

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, Dennis Denuto said:

I now think a wee bit less of you as a result, but I am very comfortable with my position.

I am tolerant of intolerance. That doesn't mean to say i agree with it. People are entitled to their views however unpalatable they are. I am not keen on his views about gays but there are many who are supportive of him. Would I sit down and have a drink with him in  a pub ? Probably not but there's probably been people i have who have similar views but they haven't been out in the open. In fact reminds me of a time I used to chat to  a Jambo in a local pub who always seemed a decent guy but one time I walked passed him in the pub and overheard him make a homophonic comment about me. " hes a good jambo shame hes a p*** "  Needless to say that after that I body swerved him. Least people like Stephen Kerr openly express their intolerance I suppose and are not hypocrites like that guy in the pub. Sleekit . 

 

Just why do you feel any less about me ? 

[JudyJudyJudy]

9 minutes ago, Dennis Denuto said:

Called out regarding Stephen Kerr? I gave my opinion, you gave yours - I now think a wee bit less of you as a result, but I am very comfortable with my position.

 

You keep going on about England v Scotland in the restrictions stakes but are not willing to talk about the restrictions you didn't support that were also introduced into England.

Probably best to drop this issue as its off topic. 

[Ex member of the SaS]

6 minutes ago, Gizmo said:

DId I say they got it "right"? No, I said they acted in good faith and took the advice and data from South Africa and waited, sensibly, to see if it played out the same here. Are YOU gonna gamble with people's lifes because you made a laymen's bet based on a couple of headlines? Possibly - but a government most certainly should not. 

 

The data was X times more transmissible than Delta - that is what worried countries initially, particularly given that some parts of Europe including the UK have had high case percentage numbers already. They told us this - it might be less severe but with that potential transmission factor they still believe it *could* overwhelm the NHS. 

Also, the other data was the advice from the preprint SA paper on Omicron which cautioned against assuming that Omicron would play out exactly the same in other territories.

I'd have taken the same view to put in place limited restrictions and allow a short wait-and-see policy given the above.   

Can you at least agree the restrictions were over the top? No need to destroy companies with such draconian measures when the majority of the population was vaccinated. Had they wanted restrictions as a precaution, then why did they go over board and having decided to lift restrictions why wait until Money to do so? Why not allow the game on Friday night to have fans? What difference does it make to their agenda if restrictions were lifted early? Pubs and night clubs could have had this weekend to make money but now have to wait until next weekend.

[Dennis Denuto]

2 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Probably best to drop this issue as its off topic. 

I dropped the Stephen Kerr issue, you brought it back up.

 

Now I am on topic asking what your views were on the VPs introduced in England given you supported their approach over all others with the recent Omicron wave.

[JudyJudyJudy]

5 minutes ago, Dennis Denuto said:

I dropped the Stephen Kerr issue, you brought it back up.

 

Now I am on topic asking what your views were on the VPs introduced in England given you supported their approach over all others with the recent Omicron wave.

I disagree with them as they have little to zero impact on transmission etc I have stated that time and again

[Taffin]

17 minutes ago, Gizmo said:

DId I say they got it "right"? No, I said they acted in good faith and took the advice and data from South Africa and waited, sensibly, to see if it played out the same here. Are YOU gonna gamble with people's lifes because you made a laymen's bet based on a couple of headlines? Possibly - but a government most certainly should not. 

 

The data was X times more transmissible than Delta - that is what worried countries initially, particularly given that some parts of Europe including the UK have had high case percentage numbers already. They told us this - it might be less severe but with that potential transmission factor they still believe it *could* overwhelm the NHS. 

Also, the other data was the advice from the preprint SA paper on Omicron which cautioned against assuming that Omicron would play out exactly the same in other territories.

I'd have taken the same view to put in place limited restrictions and allow a short wait-and-see policy given the above.   

 

So they had limited data and made decisions based on that whilst also saying the data is too limited to be relaxed? Seems like a conflict of logic to me.

 

Maybe they'll stop hedging their bets on worst case scenarios in future, or people will stop listening to them and it'll end up really bad. Boy who cried wolf.

[Fxxx the SPFL]

all restrictions lifted in England next week back to plan A no more mask wearing, return to workplaces and also shortly to lift all isolation 

[Dennis Denuto]

1 hour ago, JamesM48 said:

One country looked at the data and made a sensible measured response, taking a more holistic view of the harm restrictions may do and another country took an over cautious and risk averse approach. I prefered the first countries response. 

 

1 minute ago, JamesM48 said:

I disagree with them as they have little to zero impact on transmission etc I have stated that time and again

So now maybe you can see my issues with what you have posted here and what your motivations are for posting it.

 

You have consistently gone on about the harm that VPs did to businesses in Scotland, but in England they are a measured response.

[JudyJudyJudy]

Just now, Dennis Denuto said:

 

So now maybe you can see my issues with what you have posted here and what your motivations are for posting it.

 

You have consistently gone on about the harm that VPs did to businesses in Scotland, but in England they are a measured response.

Breaking news. Vaccine passports shelved in England. Over to you Sturgeon. 

[Footballfirst]

2 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Breaking news. Vaccine passports shelved in England. Over to you Sturgeon. 

You have consistently criticised the SG's restrictions in whatever form.

 

You have consistently praised the approach of the UKG in relation to England in whatever form.

 

Can you tell me what "Plan B" entailed for England, the same one that you praised and that the PM (soon to be ex PM) has now announced is to end. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

Just now, Footballfirst said:

You have consistently criticised the SG's restrictions in whatever form.

 

You have consistently praised the approach of the UKG in relation to England in whatever form.

 

Can you tell me what "Plan B" entailed for England, the same one that you praised and that the PM (soon to be ex PM) has now announced is to end. 

I never praised their plan b. I praised their less " over cautious" approach and their holistic consideration of how damaging lockdowns or restrictions might do.  Unlike the SG who couldn't wait to have restrictions with the omicron variant. There was a marked difference between the two nations with this issue.

[frankblack]

Darwin Awards nomination?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60050996

 

[Japan Jambo]

Yikes - Czech singer dies after catching Covid intentionally

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60050996

[JudyJudyJudy]

14 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

You have consistently criticised the SG's restrictions in whatever form.

 

You have consistently praised the approach of the UKG in relation to England in whatever form.

 

Can you tell me what "Plan B" entailed for England, the same one that you praised and that the PM (soon to be ex PM) has now announced is to end. 

Actually you have made me think about this. I have always praised the English response to this as it has tended to have light at the end of the tunnel, albeit restrictions They have inspired hope and positivity and had clear plans about when restrictions would end. Whereas the SG are the polar opposite. 

[Footballfirst]

3 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

I never praised their plan b. I praised their less " over cautious" approach and their holistic consideration of how damaging lockdowns or restrictions might do.  Unlike the SG who couldn't wait to have restrictions with the omicron variant. There was a marked difference between the two nations with this issue.

You didn't answer what was entailed within Plan B.  Let me help you with that.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/prime-minister-confirms-move-to-plan-b-in-england

 

Some extracts.

As a result of this concerning data the Prime Minister has acted quickly and with caution, confirming Plan B measures will come into force while more data on vaccine efficacy and disease severity is assessed. Plan B was set out in September and will help to slow the spread of the variant and reduce the chances of the NHS coming under unsustainable pressure, while buying time to deliver more boosters.

 

While it is likely there is some level of reduced vaccine effectiveness against Omicron, it is still too early to determine the extent of this.

 

Everyone should test using a lateral flow device, particularly before entering a high-risk setting involving people you wouldn’t normally come into contact with, or when visiting a vulnerable person. Lateral flow devices remain free of charge and can be collected from local pharmacies.

From Friday 10 December, face coverings will become compulsory in most public indoor venues, such as cinemas, theatres and places of worship. There will be exemptions in venues where it is not practical to wear one, such as when you are eating, drinking or exercising. For that reason, face masks will not be required in hospitality settings.

From Monday 13 December, those who can will be advised to work from home.

From Wednesday 15 December, and subject to parliamentary approval, the NHS Covid Pass on the NHS App will become mandatory for entry into nightclubs and settings where large crowds gather – including unseated indoor events with 500 or more attendees, unseated outdoor events with 4,000 or more attendees and any event with 10,000 or more attendees.

People will be able to demonstrate proof of two vaccine doses via the app. Having considered the evidence since the emergence of Omicron, proof of a negative lateral flow test will also be accepted.

Introducing Covid-status certification from next Wednesday will give businesses a week’s notice, as promised in the government’s proposals for introducing mandatory certification published in September.

 

Those measures were little different from those in Scotland. From boxing day Scotland took additional measures with regard to crowds and nightclubs, which are in the process of being undone.

 

Would I prefer that all restrictions were removed?  .... Yes.

Do I understand why the measures were introduced?  ..... Yes.

Do I feel that I have been unduly put out by those restrictions? ..... No.

[Gizmo]

38 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

So they had limited data and made decisions based on that whilst also saying the data is too limited to be relaxed? Seems like a conflict of logic to me.

 

Maybe they'll stop hedging their bets on worst case scenarios in future, or people will stop listening to them and it'll end up really bad. Boy who cried wolf.

Not how I'm reading this at all. Last time I'm explaining my own thoughts on the S Govt's proportionate response.

1) Limited data when Omicron hit SA as it was only starting to emerge here. You can't hammer them for having limited data and then complain that they used moderate restrictions to allow them to ingather the required data! Where's that cake...
2) SA scientists Omicron paper urged caution in assuming their findings would be applicable to other countries.
3) S Govt - and most countries, applied limited restrictions and ingathered data. They've now acted on that data. 

 

 

47 minutes ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

Can you at least agree the restrictions were over the top? No need to destroy companies with such draconian measures when the majority of the population was vaccinated. Had they wanted restrictions as a precaution, then why did they go over board and having decided to lift restrictions why wait until Money to do so? Why not allow the game on Friday night to have fans? What difference does it make to their agenda if restrictions were lifted early? Pubs and night clubs could have had this weekend to make money but now have to wait until next weekend.

No, I don't agree. It was a short period of limited restrictions. It stinged, but not as much as the horrendous lockdown last year. 

A full lockdown like last year that lasted months would have been draconian. A short one, not so much. 
Restrictions are probably lifted on day X to allow for whatever framework is required including, I expect, formally instructing the Police & emergency services, issuing bulletins to affected business sectors, any parliamentary or legal paperwork etc etc.You'd perhaps need to work in civil service or in parliament if you don't feel the speed of government/administration is fast enough. 
 

Edited January 19, 2022 by Gizmo

[Dazo]

7 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

You didn't answer what was entailed within Plan B.  Let me help you with that.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/prime-minister-confirms-move-to-plan-b-in-england

 

Some extracts.

As a result of this concerning data the Prime Minister has acted quickly and with caution, confirming Plan B measures will come into force while more data on vaccine efficacy and disease severity is assessed. Plan B was set out in September and will help to slow the spread of the variant and reduce the chances of the NHS coming under unsustainable pressure, while buying time to deliver more boosters.

 

While it is likely there is some level of reduced vaccine effectiveness against Omicron, it is still too early to determine the extent of this.

 

Everyone should test using a lateral flow device, particularly before entering a high-risk setting involving people you wouldn’t normally come into contact with, or when visiting a vulnerable person. Lateral flow devices remain free of charge and can be collected from local pharmacies.

From Friday 10 December, face coverings will become compulsory in most public indoor venues, such as cinemas, theatres and places of worship. There will be exemptions in venues where it is not practical to wear one, such as when you are eating, drinking or exercising. For that reason, face masks will not be required in hospitality settings.

From Monday 13 December, those who can will be advised to work from home.

From Wednesday 15 December, and subject to parliamentary approval, the NHS Covid Pass on the NHS App will become mandatory for entry into nightclubs and settings where large crowds gather – including unseated indoor events with 500 or more attendees, unseated outdoor events with 4,000 or more attendees and any event with 10,000 or more attendees.

People will be able to demonstrate proof of two vaccine doses via the app. Having considered the evidence since the emergence of Omicron, proof of a negative lateral flow test will also be accepted.

Introducing Covid-status certification from next Wednesday will give businesses a week’s notice, as promised in the government’s proposals for introducing mandatory certification published in September.

 

Those measures were little different from those in Scotland. From boxing day Scotland took additional measures with regard to crowds and nightclubs, which are in the process of being undone.

 

Would I prefer that all restrictions were removed?  .... Yes.

Do I understand why the measures were introduced?  ..... Yes.

Do I feel that I have been unduly put out by those restrictions? ..... No.

😂😂😂

 

All those words trying to make the restrictions similar with a nice little paragraph at the end pointing out the glaring difference that caused businesses to close and people to lose jobs. I don’t get why it’s so hard to admit rather than spending so much time trying to pretend the differences, no matter how small were significant in there impact. 

Edited January 19, 2022 by Dazo