Coronavirus Super Thread ( merged )

[Fxxx the SPFL]

6 hours ago, Ulysses said:

The Irish government is removing almost all of our domestic Covid-19 restrictions from 6 am.  All restrictions or guidance relating to physical distancing, household mixing, Covid-19 certificates, hospitality, capacity limits at events, and working from home will be lifted.

 

Masks will still be required in certain indoor settings, most notably in schools, and there are still rules and restrictions to be followed in certain circumstances for people with Covid-19 or their close contacts.  International travel rules for people arriving into Ireland (Covid-19 certs and tests) will remain.  Those rules are to be kept until the end of February and then reviewed.  They are also the rules that are regarded by most people as being the least intrusive.

 

A couple of days ago statistics for the current Covid-19 wave were published by the government, stating that since mid-December there have been over 285,000 cases, resulting so far in 67 deaths.  Although the number of deaths is expected to increase, the case fatality rate is significantly lower than in previous waves.

Hurrah hopefully we go down the same route with the certificate shenanigans 

[Nucky Thompson]

8 hours ago, Smithee said:

 

Critique is a bit disingenuous, she's being attacked and called a liar when she made a factual statement.

 

I'm no Sturgeon fan but the constant pish is softening me towards her

 

At the start of the omicron wave, Scotland had 1 case confirmed. The next day it was up to 3 cases and the headline was 'Scotland's omicron cases skyrocket by 200% in 24 hours'

Now that is technically correct, but any reasonable person could say that the data was being twisted to get a headline.

 

 

[Lord Montpelier]

2 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

At the start of the omicron wave, Scotland had 1 case confirmed. The next day it was up to 3 cases and the headline was 'Scotland's omicron cases skyrocket by 200% in 24 hours'

Now that is technically correct, but any reasonable person could say that the data was being twisted to get a headline.

 

 

The impression I get is the nationalist support like a fantastical, exaggerated headline to fuel their desires for further restrictions (sorry protections). And Sturgeon plays to it

[Nucky Thompson]

8 hours ago, Ulysses said:

 

Are you aware that research shows that people with weak mathematical reasoning are more susceptible to (1) conspiracy theories, (2) extreme right-wing political views and (3) internet and text messaging scams?

Funny you should say that 

[Unknown user]

31 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

At the start of the omicron wave, Scotland had 1 case confirmed. The next day it was up to 3 cases and the headline was 'Scotland's omicron cases skyrocket by 200% in 24 hours'

Now that is technically correct, but any reasonable person could say that the data was being twisted to get a headline.

 

 

There's nothing technically or twisted about it, it's 100% accurate. The complaint will be laughed out and the complainers will look thick as absolute ****.

 

Seriously, take a step back. THIS is what's worthy of your ire just now? A 100% accurate statement when the PM outright lies on a daily basis?

 

This is why your lot can't be taken seriously

[Taffin]

Whilst we're engaging in the 'spirit' of statements etc, did the PM actually break the law during party gate?

 

Genuine question that I'm not 100% clear on the answer to and reckon it'll be the wriggle room he uses on the back of the report from Sue Gray.

[Harry Potter]

38 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

At the start of the omicron wave, Scotland had 1 case confirmed. The next day it was up to 3 cases and the headline was 'Scotland's omicron cases skyrocket by 200% in 24 hours'

Now that is technically correct, but any reasonable person could say that the data was being twisted to get a headline.

 

 

Typical media spin, i avoid the bbc now, tbh, all news channels.

[pablo]

I guess one question would have to be, is that if, as the FM states it's not a competition, why present the data in a misleading way? I think we all know why, but anyway. 

 

Also, I love how her followers think that it's only the Prime Minister who is capable of telling lies. Here's Nicola Sturgeon telling a Covid related lie in Holyrood only this week.

 

 

[Unknown user]

5 minutes ago, pablo said:

I guess one question would have to be, is that if, as the FM states it's not a competition, why present the data in a misleading way? I think we all know why, but anyway. 

 

Also, I love how her followers think that it's only the Prime Minister who is capable of telling lies. Here's Nicola Sturgeon telling a Covid related lie in Holyrood only this week.

 

 

 

Deflective shite, the most ****ing blatant liar in the history of PMs and you lot are throwing mud to distract.

It's pathetic, BILLIONS this choad has been in charge of wasting, lie after lie after lie.

 

And what do we get? "Nicola presented info in a way I don't understand waaaaaa"

 

[The Real Maroonblood]

36 minutes ago, Harry Potter said:

Typical media spin, i avoid the bbc now, tbh, all news channels.

Same here.

Mrs TRM just tells me what I want to hear.

Edited January 22, 2022 by The Real Maroonblood

[redjambo]

1 hour ago, Nucky Thompson said:

At the start of the omicron wave, Scotland had 1 case confirmed. The next day it was up to 3 cases and the headline was 'Scotland's omicron cases skyrocket by 200% in 24 hours'

Now that is technically correct, but any reasonable person could say that the data was being twisted to get a headline.

 

 

 

Please link to said headline.

[manaliveits105]

44 minutes ago, pablo said:

I guess one question would have to be, is that if, as the FM states it's not a competition, why present the data in a misleading way? I think we all know why, but anyway. 

 

Also, I love how her followers think that it's only the Prime Minister who is capable of telling lies. Here's Nicola Sturgeon telling a Covid related lie in Holyrood only this week.

 

 

Liar caught offside by the linesman Oh dear !

[redjambo]

You're all assuming that Nucky's statement about the 200% rise headline is true, leading for example to Harry Potter's "Typical media spin, i avoid the bbc now, tbh, all news channels.". I suspect he is making it up. As far as I recall, the first announcement of omicron cases in Scotland was for the first batch of six.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/29/six-cases-of-covid-omicron-variant-found-in-scotland

 

Edit: Please don't let anyone away with introducing unsubstantiated "facts" into the thread, eh, folks.

Edited January 22, 2022 by redjambo

[Nucky Thompson]

16 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Please link to said headline.

Seriously Red  It was off the top of my head as loads of such headlines were kicking around.

I didn't troll the internet to make sure that was the exact headline at the exact time.

The point stands about using percentages to twist data

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, Nucky Thompson said:

Seriously Red  It was off the top of my head as loads of such headlines were kicking around.

I didn't troll the internet to make sure that was the exact headline at the exact time.

The point stands about using percentages to twist data

 

It isn't twisting data

[Unknown user]

In Scotland, 449 per 10,000.

In England, 547 per 10,000.

 

That's 21.83% more.

[redjambo]

2 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

Seriously Red  It was off the top of my head as loads of such headlines were kicking around.

I didn't troll the internet to make sure that was the exact headline at the exact time.

The point stands about using percentages to twist data

 

You made it up, purely because you realised you got it wildly wrong yesterday with the percentage thing. Then others believed what you said as a "fact", even though you'd just made it up.

 

I used to like you as a poster, even though we disagree on a lot of things, but that crossed the line, Nucky. Who knows what spurious "facts" you will invent to help you make a point from now on. You can't be trusted to tell the truth, and if you don't see that then you are further down the rabbit hole than even you realise.

[Nucky Thompson]

2 minutes ago, Smithee said:

In Scotland, 449 per 10,000.

In England, 547 per 10,000.

 

That's 21.83% more.

Aye, it was certainly worth the extra restrictions and the £100m in Scottish tax payers money 

[Victorian]

Perceive some twisting of data... boooo grrrrr.

 

Make up your own headlines off the top of your head... yeah nothing wrong with that.  

 

Sound.  

[Unknown user]

3 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

Aye, it was certainly worth the extra restrictions and the £100m in Scottish tax payers money 

 

Aye move the goalposts Nucky, make whatever claim you fancy and boo facts that you actually have to consider to get.

 

 

[Nucky Thompson]

2 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

You made it up, purely because you realised you got it wildly wrong yesterday with the percentage thing. Then others believed what you said as a "fact", even though you'd just made it up.

 

I used to like you as a poster, even though we disagree on a lot of things, but that crossed the line, Nucky. Who knows what spurious "facts" you will invent to help you make a point from now on. You can't be trusted to tell the truth, and if you don't see that then you are further down the rabbit hole than even you realise.

I gave an example of how the media were reporting things and how they use percentages to their advantage. I remember reading something along those lines at the time.

I didn't intend for it to come over as 100% fact.

People use hypothetical examples all the time.

 

I'm certainly not down any rabbit holes when it comes to Covid.

My whole family are fully vaccinated including my 15 year old.

The only thing I question are stupid rules that don't make sense and the need for restrictions when most people are vaccinated.

 

[Nucky Thompson]

17 minutes ago, Victorian said:

Perceive some twisting of data... boooo grrrrr.

 

Make up your own headlines off the top of your head... yeah nothing wrong with that.  

 

Sound.  

Come on Vic FFS 

[Nucky Thompson]

17 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

Aye move the goalposts Nucky, make whatever claim you fancy and boo facts that you actually have to consider to get.

 

 

So was it worth all the extra restrictions and money spent propping up businesses for 0.98 of a percentage point difference between the 2 countries?

But, but this is not a competition 

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, Nucky Thompson said:

So was it worth all the extra restrictions and money spent propping up businesses for 0.98 of a percentage point difference between the 2 countries?

But, but this is not a competition 

 

Aye strawman your way out of it

 

[Footballfirst]

From the Daily Record on 15 December, not percentage figures but the same point made about the use of statistics to create a headline.

 

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/ayrshire/scots-omicron-cases-almost-double-25705642

 

The number of confirmed Omicron cases in Scotland almost doubled overnight, according to figures published this afternoon by Public Health Scotland.

A further 265 new cases of the variant have been reported in the last 24 hours, taking the total number of Omicron cases detected in the country from 296 to 561.

In Ayrshire, confirmed Omicron cases have more than trebled, shooting up from a total of six yesterday to 21 today.

[Victorian]

20 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

Come on Vic FFS 

 

[The Mighty Thor]

'Sturgeon lies'

**no she didn't. Here's the proof**

'Aye but *insert random shit you've just made up'

Then double down

Then come back again

 

 

It's like a swing ball version of getting your arse handed to you 😂

 

[Nucky Thompson]

2 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

From the Daily Record on 15 December, not percentage figures but the same point made about the use of statistics to create a headline.

 

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/ayrshire/scots-omicron-cases-almost-double-25705642

 

The number of confirmed Omicron cases in Scotland almost doubled overnight, according to figures published this afternoon by Public Health Scotland.

A further 265 new cases of the variant have been reported in the last 24 hours, taking the total number of Omicron cases detected in the country from 296 to 561.

In Ayrshire, confirmed Omicron cases have more than trebled, shooting up from a total of six yesterday to 21 today.

As usual FF, you can get things over a lot better than me 

 

You use facts, I use hypothetical examples of things I think that I've read somewhere 

[Roxy Hearts]

5 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

'Sturgeon lies'

**no she didn't. Here's the proof**

'Aye but *insert random shit you've just made up'

Then double down

Then come back again

 

 

It's like a swing ball version of getting your arse handed to you 😂

 

Absolute roasters! 

[redjambo]

2 hours ago, Nucky Thompson said:

At the start of the omicron wave, Scotland had 1 case confirmed. The next day it was up to 3 cases and the headline was 'Scotland's omicron cases skyrocket by 200% in 24 hours'

Now that is technically correct, but any reasonable person could say that the data was being twisted to get a headline.

 

 

 

5 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

I gave an example of how the media were reporting things and how they use percentages to their advantage. I remember reading something along those lines at the time.

I didn't intend for it to come over as 100% fact.

People use hypothetical examples all the time.

 

I'm certainly not down any rabbit holes when it comes to Covid.

My whole family are fully vaccinated including my 15 year old.

The only thing I question are stupid rules that don't make sense and the need for restrictions when most people are vaccinated.

 

 

You must appreciate that the way you presented it was as a fact. There was no "headlines along the lines of...", or anything like that in your post, although even that would have been presenting it as a quasi-fact when it wasn't. No indication whatsoever that you were presenting a hypothetical headline. With all due respect, the fact that you're now saying that it was hypothetical is the sort of backtracking and changing of argument that Boris is doing at the moment (he is by absolutely no means the only person who ever does this, folk in authority in particular do it all the time, but his multiple backtracks over the last wee while are the most prominent at the moment).

 

Good on you for helping keep your family and the rest of society safe.

 

On your general last point, it's a bit of a fecker at the moment. We've been at this almost two years now, we've seen multiple waves, we've had hospitals and ICU units full to the gunwales, and we've seen more deaths, illness, damage to the economy, and knock-on physical and mental health issues as a result. It's not surprising that the authorities have been cautious in relaxing everything, nervous in case we get hit by a new wave. It's a bit like having PTSD. However, recent announcements show that we're getting there. Scotland has control over its devolved health matters and if we appear to have been more cautious then that's our prerogative - we're all still heading in the right direction however.

 

Back to the reason for me taking you up on your original post. One of the side-effects of social media in particular is that made-up "facts" fly all over the place now. It's not a new phenomenon by any means, historically, but it is now more highly magnified than ever. Like the butterfly flapping its wings, one wee made up fact can gather steam and very soon be treated as the truth and, more often than not, become the basis for opinions or action that can cause damage. It is an anathema to me. There is such an avalanche of shite around that we're rapidly losing sight of the truth. Hardly anyone can be bothered sourcing their "facts" - as soon they are written down they gain a sort of false legitimacy and others just lap them up unquestioningly. We should question everything, adopt an attitude of "How true do I think this may be?" and "How much do I or should I trust this source?". So, to see you joining the bandwagon, even if in a small way, and to see others treat your "fact" as truth, rankled with me. Basically, I detest seeing things made up and presented as facts, although I assume you've gathered that by now.

 

[redjambo]

21 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

As usual FF, you can get things over a lot better than me 

 

You use facts, I use hypothetical examples of things I think that I've read somewhere 

 

Perhaps you should start using facts then, rather than just making things up because you think they sound good and will support an argument. FF gets things over a lot better because he actually goes to the bother of researching his facts, and he is much respected as a poster for that reason. You should try it sometime.

[coconut doug]

24 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

So was it worth all the extra restrictions and money spent propping up businesses for 0.98 of a percentage point difference between the 2 countries?

But, but this is not a competition 

 

I think it was worth it. It meant we had many thousands fewer cases, meaning less disruption to people's lives. We had hundreds fewer being admitted to hospital meaning less worry for those people and their families and greater opportunity for the NHS to carry on as normal. We have had scores fewer dead as well. These effects are likely to persist for some time as well because Scotland and Wales took steps to suppress the Omicron variant. The Erg wouldn't allow this so they can take the credit for saving the English population from the irritation of mask wearing, table service and the financial burden of a few million to the businesses affected. You can choose to side with the ERG/Tory decision making if you like but to deny of refuse to recognise that their decisions have implications is both dishonest and perverse.     

 

 These figures are all checkable and show as claimed by the FM that rates in England were 20% higher than those in Scotland. It is the ONS who misrepresented the figures when they claimed that both Scotland and England had infection rates of 1 in 20. The reality is England's figure was closer to 1 in 18 and Scotland's figure neaerer to 1 in 22. The reason we use percentages though is because they give a clear and accurate comparison.

 

Even your 0.98% figure is wrong. I assume you are not trying to misrepresent the difference by reducing the actual difference and that it is yet another example of your difficulties with numbers. 

[Gizmo]

10 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

 

You must appreciate that the way you presented it was as a fact. There was no "headlines along the lines of...", or anything like that in your post, although even that would have been presenting it as a quasi-fact when it wasn't. No indication whatsoever that you were presenting a hypothetical headline. With all due respect, the fact that you're now saying that it was hypothetical is the sort of backtracking and changing of argument that Boris is doing at the moment (he is by absolutely no means the only person who ever does this, folk in authority in particular do it all the time, but his multiple backtracks over the last wee while are the most prominent at the moment).

 

Good on you for helping keep your family and the rest of society safe.

 

On your general last point, it's a bit of a fecker at the moment. We've been at this almost two years now, we've seen multiple waves, we've had hospitals and ICU units full to the gunwales, and we've seen more deaths, illness, damage to the economy, and knock-on physical and mental health issues as a result. It's not surprising that the authorities have been cautious in relaxing everything, nervous in case we get hit by a new wave. It's a bit like having PTSD. However, recent announcements show that we're getting there. Scotland has control over its devolved health matters and if we appear to have been more cautious then that's our prerogative - we're all still heading in the right direction however.

 

Back to the reason for me taking you up on your original post. One of the side-effects of social media in particular is that made-up "facts" fly all over the place now. It's not a new phenomenon by any means, historically, but it is now more highly magnified than ever. Like the butterfly flapping its wings, one wee made up fact can gather steam and very soon be treated as the truth and, more often than not, become the basis for opinions or action that can cause damage. It is an anathema to me. There is such an avalanche of shite around that we're rapidly losing sight of the truth. Hardly anyone can be bothered sourcing their "facts" - as soon they are written down they gain a sort of false legitimacy and others just lap them up unquestioningly. We should question everything, adopt an attitude of "How true do I think this may be?" and "How much do I or should I trust this source?". So, to see you joining the bandwagon, even if in a small way, and to see others treat your "fact" as truth, rankled with me. Basically, I detest seeing things made up and presented as facts, although I assume you've gathered that by now.

 

Good post, but be careful Red! There are posters on here who, when asked to back up their facts, insist they are correct, get abusive, claim some form of martyrdom when they can't even produce a single link in support of these facts and then put you on ignore before bitching about you to other posters whilst doubling-down and accusing you of being at it for asking for some proof. 😉

Next time there's a disagreement, I'm only half-jokingly expecting to be invited round the back of the Wheatfield.  

[Ex member of the SaS]

38 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

As usual FF, you can get things over a lot better than me 

 

You use facts, I use hypothetical examples of things I think that I've read somewhere 

FFS Nucky surely you realise by now only FACTS are allowed on here. The show me a link police will be jumping on everything you say from now on.

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 hour ago, Nucky Thompson said:

Aye, it was certainly worth the extra restrictions and the £100m in Scottish tax payers money 

Nucky let them "win " their arguments.  Its only an internet forum. Its not real life.

 

 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

17 hours ago, kila said:

 

 

 

Let's not forget, that survey James filled out on another thread said he's something like 80%+ match for the SNP because of their policies

 

Bet he's got saltire pants he doesn't let anyone see and instead wears Union Jack ones when out and about with Enzo and pals.

 

 

[redjambo]

8 minutes ago, Gizmo said:

Good post, but be careful Red! There are posters on here who, when asked to back up their facts, insist they are correct, get abusive, claim some form of martyrdom when they can't even produce a single link in support of these facts and then put you on ignore before bitching about you to other posters whilst doubling-down and accusing you of being at it for asking for some proof. 😉

Next time there's a disagreement, I'm only half-jokingly expecting to be invited round the back of the Wheatfield.  

 

Not surprising, since defending the indefensible is not the easiest of things - as soon as you've run out of spurious arguments, the only recourse left is to get bitchy about it.

 

Anyway, if you do get an invitation, let me know so I can come over to Tynie and live stream the pagger for the rest of us.

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 hour ago, redjambo said:

 

You made it up, purely because you realised you got it wildly wrong yesterday with the percentage thing. Then others believed what you said as a "fact", even though you'd just made it up.

 

I used to like you as a poster, even though we disagree on a lot of things, but that crossed the line, Nucky. Who knows what spurious "facts" you will invent to help you make a point from now on. You can't be trusted to tell the truth, and if you don't see that then you are further down the rabbit hole than even you realise.

 

[redjambo]

9 minutes ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

FFS Nucky surely you realise by now only FACTS are allowed on here. The show me a link police will be jumping on everything you say from now on.

 

 

So now the folk who ask you to back up your assertions with evidence are the "show me a link police".

 

This is why facts, evidence and the truth are treated with so much disdain by so many nowadays.

 

In the spirit of James:

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

Anyway in Scotlandia wanna be republic run by NS and her cronies their protecttions really are bonkers. Heres an example.

 

We got to pub last night. People we were meeting were at the table with their drinks.  We were about to sit down with them until the anxiety mask covered bar worker came over  " Oh you cant all sit there that table is only for 3 people, Ill move you to a bigger table" So one of the friends was lifting up her drink to walk over to other table and the worker says " Oh you cant walk over to the other table with your drink ill take it over for you.".  The other table was 3 feet away. Dearie me.  Some daft ****  honestly supporting this madness. ????????? Jesus lord. 

 

 

[kila]

Reasoning of a 5 year old  

 

 

[Ex member of the SaS]

11 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

 

So now the folk who ask you to back up your assertions with evidence are the "show me a link police".

 

This is why facts, evidence and the truth are treated with so much disdain by so many nowadays.

 

In the spirit of James:

 

So explain to me in words of one syllable how they can ask for proof but when you ask them for proof they ignore you. 

[Footballfirst]

1 hour ago, Nucky Thompson said:

Seriously Red  It was off the top of my head as loads of such headlines were kicking around.

I didn't troll the internet to make sure that was the exact headline at the exact time.

The point stands about using percentages to twist data

I didn't have any issue with your post as it correctly highlighted how people can use statistics to suit a narrative.  It was also was in line with my memory of the situation in early December.

 

I only did a quick google search to back up that narrative.

[JudyJudyJudy]

13 minutes ago, kila said:

Reasoning of a 5 year old  

 

 

 

[Lord Montpelier]

32 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Anyway in Scotlandia wanna be republic run by NS and her cronies their protecttions really are bonkers. Heres an example.

 

We got to pub last night. People we were meeting were at the table with their drinks.  We were about to sit down with them until the anxiety mask covered bar worker came over  " Oh you cant all sit there that table is only for 3 people, Ill move you to a bigger table" So one of the friends was lifting up her drink to walk over to other table and the worker says " Oh you cant walk over to the other table with your drink ill take it over for you.".  The other table was 3 feet away. Dearie me.  Some daft ****  honestly supporting this madness. ????????? Jesus lord. 

 

 

We need far more of Sturgeons protections in my view for the good of society. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

9 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said:

We need far more of Sturgeons protections in my view for the good of society. 

Yes more ineffective and petty   " Protections " are needed. 

 

 

[redjambo]

1 hour ago, Footballfirst said:

I didn't have any issue with your post as it correctly highlighted how people can use statistics to suit a narrative.  It was also was in line with my memory of the situation in early December.

 

I only did a quick google search to back up that narrative.

 

What are you all about, FF? The actual example given was made up but presented as fact. Of course people can use statistics to suit a narrative, but you don't prove that point by making up a piece of fiction and presenting it as the truth. As it was, the true example you finally sourced and gave was illustrative but nowhere near as ridiculous as the one that was originally made. Fancy that.

[The Real Maroonblood]

2 hours ago, redjambo said:

 

 

So now the folk who ask you to back up your assertions with evidence are the "show me a link police".

 

This is why facts, evidence and the truth are treated with so much disdain by so many nowadays.

 

In the spirit of James:

 

[John Findlay]

Boris Johnson lies. Shock horror.

Nicola Sturgeon lies. Shock horror.

 

They are politicians, of course they lie.

It's their Modus Operandi.

[Nucky Thompson]

1 hour ago, redjambo said:

 

What are you all about, FF? The actual example given was made up but presented as fact. Of course people can use statistics to suit a narrative, but you don't prove that point by making up a piece of fiction and presenting it as the truth. As it was, the true example you finally sourced and gave was illustrative but nowhere near as ridiculous as the one that was originally made. Fancy that.

Made up or something along the same lines as something I read? 

You're missing the point Red 

If I had wrote 'I read headlines along the lines of' would it have made a difference?

I read lots of things online that I can't remember where, but I know I have somewhere.