Coronavirus Super Thread ( merged )

[Adam_the_legend]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/28/omicron-is-not-the-same-disease-as-earlier-covid-waves-says-uk-scientist?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

[JudyJudyJudy]

Just watched STV news. Im shocked. Covid wasn't the headline. Then again why would it. ? Infections aka "cases" are down over a 1000 from yesterday. They hate good news it seems. The dentist on stating that testing numbers are " record breaking" as well .  

[felix]

15 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

Nobody questions why any government with its salt did not increase Nhs capacity to meet winter need?

all coronavirus including this one rise in the winter, but no wards built, no extra capacity, no planning.

hundreds of billions spanked on testing , tracing, locking down.

this was predictable and manageable , yet no govt did anything about it

Didn't we build 7 Nightingales and a Louisa Jordan to increase capacity ?

[pablo]

Those Cult who consider themselves progressives while voting for Nationalism in the hope of getting Socialism, are the most amusing of the lot.

 

Anyway....Covid. The number of hospitalisations in England is half it was this time last year, despite cases being three times as many. More evidence that Omicron is causing less serious illnesses. I'm sure the Government will react when it has to.

[Francis Albert]

5 minutes ago, felix said:

Didn't we build 7 Nightingales and a Louisa Jordan to increase capacity ?

We did but I suspect the underlying point is that maybe we should have invested in extra NHS capacity in anticipation of a pandemic.  Of course governments would then have been condemned for spending on resources (not just physical but also people) which were surplus to requirements 90 % or more of the time. And which might have done more good if invested in other things.

[Francis Albert]

19 minutes ago, Adam_the_legend said:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/28/omicron-is-not-the-same-disease-as-earlier-covid-waves-says-uk-scientist?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

I learnt nothing new from all that. Except that perhaps the Guardian is reining in its "apocalypse is near" line.

Edited December 28, 2021 by Francis Albert

[Nucky Thompson]

1 hour ago, Footballfirst said:

Hospitalisations now increasing more markedly in England.

 

How many went into hospital with other things and tested positive?

Two experts were on BBC breakfast this morning saying that people actually going in because of covid was about the same as last week

[Footballfirst]

4 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

How many went into hospital with other things and tested positive?

Two experts were on BBC breakfast this morning saying that people actually going in because of covid was about the same as last week

The BBC has reported that currently around 3 in 10 are admitted to hospital for other reasons when testing positive.

 

While that in itself is relatively good news, there is an overhead for the NHS in the need for isolation to a Covid ward and their ongoing care.

 

We do need much more definitive figures though.

[Radio Ga Ga]

1 hour ago, NANOJAMBO said:

You posted a load of drivel about how Johnson's govt is being held to account (it isn't) and spoke about the lack of disssent in the SNP.  You  laughably introduce Johnson and his right wing loons as though they are some kind of exemplar of how good democracy works/should work. 

 

It's not the SNPs fault there is an apparent lack of democracy in Scotland (in your view) - that's also the job of the opposition parties , who're clearly not very good at it. And again, I find it very strange that you are angry that the SNP (with its lack of internal dissent, in YOUR opinion ) and the failure of Scottish "opposition" parties haven't brought about a change in health policy - a policy that is currently in step with every major country in Europe. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think this letter sums up things pretty well

[Francis Albert]

13 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

I think you’ve misunderstood his point to be honest. 
 

I kind of agree it’s been a mistake not increase capacity in the NHS, but that’s after the pandemic started. That’s simply because due to COVID, it will need a greater capacity. The reality of the situation is COVID is going to create demand on the NHS as it ain’t going away. 
 

We knew this winter was going to be tough capacity wise, even before omicron. Is we want to live with COVID we need the NHS capacity to increase. Whilst, a flexible solution to catering for rapid demand will certainly need looked at now. 
 

I think @doctor jambo gripe is about govts not increasing capacity for this winter and beyond. I understand he is a medical doctor, so presume has some insight. 
 

Restrictions come in not to save lives but to save the NHS from collapse. NHS will need increased capacity as part of progressing to living with it. 
 

I fully understand upping capacity in NHS is a challenge in the short to immediate term. 

 

 

I am not sure I missed the point but willing to be corrected. Of course we would all like to have seen and see see increased NHS capacity for many reasons. But it is not clear to me how much Covid will add to demand in the medium to longer term, when such increase in resources can now realistically be delivered. And we don't know what will be required to live with Covid. With apparently milder dominant variant(s) taking over, maybe less than feared.

And then of course allocation of resources needs to take account of increasing demand from other things including the inexorable rise in human life spans and associated demand.

Edited December 28, 2021 by Francis Albert

[1971fozzy]

12 minutes ago, Radio Ga Ga said:

I think this letter sums up things pretty well

a debate and a vote would be right, of course. 
But that’s never happening as we know.

Edited December 28, 2021 by 1971fozzy

[Nucky Thompson]

Incidental Covid hospital admissions.

 

People going in because of Covid are not staying long and hardly any require oxygen.

The number of vaccinated people in ICU is very, very low

 

John Bell: Periods of mass Covid deaths and full intensive care units are likely ‘now history’ in UK | The Independent

 

 

 

 

[Footballfirst]

1 minute ago, 1971fozzy said:

a debate and a vote would right, of course. 
But that’s never happening as we know.

Most likely due to Labour and the Tories in Scotland being generally supportive of the SG measures, although they may have issues with specific elements such as isolation periods or support for business. 

[1971fozzy]

2 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

Most likely due to Labour and the Tories in Scotland being generally supportive of the SG measures, although they may have issues with specific elements such as isolation periods or support for business. 

true. Let’s see what she says tomorrow. The isolation period in particular needs to be re-addressed.

[Footballfirst]

3 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

Incidental Covid hospital admissions.

 

People going in because of Covid are not staying long and hardly any require oxygen.

The number of vaccinated people in ICU is very, very low

 

John Bell: Periods of mass Covid deaths and full intensive care units are likely ‘now history’ in UK | The Independent

I think the highlighted bit is the way out of the current wave that I hope will see restrictions eased when next formally reviewed.

 

Even with shorter stays in hospital it's still not great that a lot more people will need a couple of days in hospital, to receive treatment(s) and observation that their condition is improving. 

[Hmfc1965]

10 minutes ago, 1971fozzy said:

a debate and a vote would right, of course. 
But that’s never happening as we know.

What would the point be in a vote?

SNP and Greens vote for whatever Sturgeon suggests  Job done.

[Maroon Sailor]

9 minutes ago, 1971fozzy said:

a debate and a vote would right, of course. 
But that’s never happening as we know.

 

Democracy is oot the windae whilst the control freak has the power to do as she pleases.

[1971fozzy]

Just now, Hmfc1965 said:

What would the point be in a vote?

SNP and Greens vote for whatever Sturgeon suggests  Job done.

it would give those who have a difference of opinion a chance to express it without fear of being hung out to dry.

[Hmfc1965]

Just now, 1971fozzy said:

it would give those who have a difference of opinion a chance to express it without fear of being hung out to dry.

And how many SNP MSPs do you think would use that chance?

[pablo]

4 minutes ago, 1971fozzy said:

true. Let’s see what she says tomorrow. The isolation period in particular needs to be re-addressed.

 

She's making U-turns every few days at the moment, so I suspect (and hope) you'll be right.

[1971fozzy]

1 minute ago, Hmfc1965 said:

And how many SNP MSPs do you think would use that chance?

id hope that there would be a good few that may take on board their constituents views ? But maybe not. At least it should be an option as in Westminster.  This thing is really about to get ugly (in my opinion).  Negatives having to isolate for 10 days is having devastating effects on mental health and businesses (just one thing I bring up). Pretty sure that is a great one to debate and vote on.

She needs to do the right thing with that

[JudyJudyJudy]

9 minutes ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

Democracy is oot the windae whilst the control freak has the power to do as she pleases.

👌

[doctor jambo]

1 hour ago, felix said:

Didn't we build 7 Nightingales and a Louisa Jordan to increase capacity ?

And were closed, so we either have capacity or don’t .

[1971fozzy]

14 minutes ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

Democracy is oot the windae whilst the control freak has the power to do as she pleases.

👍

[Nucky Thompson]

9 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

As a matter of interest, you going to your place down south for NY or all shut down?

 

 

It's open from the 7th March to the 7th January every year.

We were meant to be going for a few days over NY, but it's been shut since storm Arwen.

The park took a lot of damage and lost over 200 trees with lots of holiday homes damaged. Ours was ok thankfully.

Hopefully we're getting on for the day sometime in January to Winterise it

[Francis Albert]

18 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

And were closed, so we either have capacity or don’t .

Were they not closed because of a combination of difficulty in staffing them at short notice and the NHS never being as overwhelmed as feared in worst case scenarios? Increased "emergency" capacity which can be used to provide better service for more "routine" treatments with long waiting lists seems an obvious answer but resources will always be an issue In a free at the point of delivery service.

[felix]

16 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

And were closed, so we either have capacity or don’t .

 

We increased capacity by 1000+ beds in 2020 - in a short space of time (at huge cost) for no need.

What's suggestion for current winter need ?

[Mister T]

1 hour ago, felix said:

Didn't we build 7 Nightingales and a Louisa Jordan to increase capacity ?

Louisa Jordan shut down for COP26 and to be really cynical, for photo opportunities and selfies to appear relevant on the world stage. But that would be ridiculous. 

[Adam_the_legend]

47 minutes ago, Hmfc1965 said:

What would the point be in a vote?

SNP and Greens vote for whatever Sturgeon suggests  Job done.

Being able to refer to an MP or MSP’s voting record is a good way for their constituents to hold them to account. No vote, no accountability. 

[theshed]

54 minutes ago, 1971fozzy said:

true. Let’s see what she says tomorrow. The isolation period in particular needs to be re-addressed.

As she’s running the railways at the moment you watch her change the isolating period Tom as trains are struggling to run services at the moment 

[felix]

6 minutes ago, Mister T said:

Louisa Jordan shut down for COP26 and to be really cynical, for photo opportunities and selfies to appear relevant on the world stage. But that would be ridiculous. 

LJ was always going to be temporary. The speed/efficincy in creating a 1000 bed unit was impressive, even if unused !

Dr J was suggesting no extra NHS capacity is being provided ( I think) whereas LJ demonstrates an impressive construction/procurement blueprint for fast track hospitals .

Can be done if needed.

[Japan Jambo]

2 hours ago, pablo said:

Those Cult who consider themselves progressives while voting for Nationalism in the hope of getting Socialism, are the most amusing of the lot.

 

Anyway....Covid. The number of hospitalisations in England is half it was this time last year, despite cases being three times as many. More evidence that Omicron is causing less serious illnesses. I'm sure the Government will react when it has to.

 

Plenty spare beds already particularly if those that are healthy are moved on (I appreciate that is easier said than done), issue is over staffing. 

[1971fozzy]

12 minutes ago, theshed said:

As she’s running the railways at the moment you watch her change the isolating period Tom as trains are struggling to run services at the moment 

that’s a very good point.  Agendas and all that. 

[GinRummy]

1 hour ago, Nucky Thompson said:

Incidental Covid hospital admissions.

 

People going in because of Covid are not staying long and hardly any require oxygen.

The number of vaccinated people in ICU is very, very low

 

John Bell: Periods of mass Covid deaths and full intensive care units are likely ‘now history’ in UK | The Independent

 

 

 

 

Interesting. 
 

Hospitals are always busier in the winter, even pre-covid. I wonder how hospitalisations for other illnesses compare to previous years, just to gauge how many more additional people are in hospital than usual. 

[Nucky Thompson]

38 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

Ahh disappointing, I do enjoy how your jaunts trigger some😂

 

Hopefully, you can get down and get everything sorted👍

 

 

[Hmfc1965]

26 minutes ago, Adam_the_legend said:

Being able to refer to an MP or MSP’s voting record is a good way for their constituents to hold them to account. No vote, no accountability. 

I agree in principle. In practice they're sheep.

[1971fozzy]

4 minutes ago, Hmfc1965 said:

I agree in principle. In practice they're sheep.

up here it seems so.  If nothing else it has brought it all to light. 

[Gizmo]

6 hours ago, Lord Montpelier said:

Was chatting with my father in law in the pub last night about this (in England, with loads of other people, brilliant, a debate , Sturgeon would be raging which we all agreed would be a good thing). 

 

My thinking has always been that the libertarians are aligned generally with the left . The right being more hard line. He pointed out that what we've seen of late is a bit of a reversal of this, with the hard left seeking to command and control our actions and thoughts and the right in the UK anyway favoring a less restricted society. 

This isn't true, people are just hyper-focused on covid restrictions and the thing that affects them personally. 

The current conservative government is bringing in more restrictions, not less:

- PCSC Bill. Effectively criminalises peaceful demonstrations (can be shut down if anyone complains they are disturbing the peace ie "too noisy", with jail-time of up to 51 weeks for locking-on or any tenuous "blocking of transportation" offence. 
- Voter ID. This is voter suppression by the back door and gerrymandering in terms that they know it will affect their voter base less.
- Human Rights Act. The tories are agitating constantly to reduce the rights afforded by this act

Nobody is talking about these issues though, even though bodies like Amnesty and Liberty UK have highlighted these as serious attacks on our freedom. You will always find a tory champion of "freedoms" that support economic activity but supporting any bills that give them more control over people without any economic damage. Liberty is only for elites and affording people opportunities to contribute to their wealth generation. 

 

 

 

Edited December 28, 2021 by Gizmo

[The Mighty Thor]

14 minutes ago, Gizmo said:

This isn't true, people are just hyper-focused on covid restrictions and the thing that affects them personally. 

The current conservative government is bringing in more restrictions, not less:

- PCSC Bill. Effectively criminalises peaceful demonstrations (can be shut down if anyone complains they are disturbing the peace ie "too noisy", with jail-time of up to 51 weeks for locking-on or any tenuous "blocking of transportation" offence. 
- Voter ID. This is voter suppression by the back door and gerrymandering in terms that they know it will affect their voter base less.
- Human Rights Act. The tories are agitating constantly to reduce the rights afforded by this act

Nobody is talking about these issues though, even though bodies like Amnesty and Liberty UK have highlighted these as serious attacks on our freedom. You will always find a tory champion of "freedoms" that support economic activity but supporting any bills that give them more control over people without any economic damage. Liberty is only for elites and affording people opportunities to contribute to their wealth generation. 

 

 

 

Aye but chief mammy but.....

 

 

Where's Spaffer anyway. Not been seen for days.

Foreign holiday paid for by a cronie or donor🤔

[Rocco_Jambo]

Wee Jimmy Skankie will be hiding herself in Peter’s cupboard soon if the stats keep going this way.

[Francis Albert]

1 hour ago, Gizmo said:

This isn't true, people are just hyper-focused on covid restrictions and the thing that affects them personally. 

The current conservative government is bringing in more restrictions, not less:

- PCSC Bill. Effectively criminalises peaceful demonstrations (can be shut down if anyone complains they are disturbing the peace ie "too noisy", with jail-time of up to 51 weeks for locking-on or any tenuous "blocking of transportation" offence. 
- Voter ID. This is voter suppression by the back door and gerrymandering in terms that they know it will affect their voter base less.
- Human Rights Act. The tories are agitating constantly to reduce the rights afforded by this act

Nobody is talking about these issues though, even though bodies like Amnesty and Liberty UK have highlighted these as serious attacks on our freedom. You will always find a tory champion of "freedoms" that support economic activity but supporting any bills that give them more control over people without any economic damage. Liberty is only for elites and affording people opportunities to contribute to their wealth generation. 

 

 

 

Have you got the right thread?

[Ray Gin]

4 hours ago, Radio Ga Ga said:

I think this letter sums up things pretty well

 

Emergency powers until March 22 were voted on and passed in scottish parliament.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-57593253

[Unknown user]

6 hours ago, Lord BJ said:

Isn’t this kind of opposite of @Footballfirst post. He argued or suggested that libertarians were inherently right winged. 
 

This kind of suggests the opposite. 
 

I kind of agree with political compass view. I also think that they aren’t inherently linked in any shape form and people are conflating issues. Left and right is political view, whereas authotarian and libertarian is more about the extent of government involvement/role in the individuals life. 
 

Anyway on COVID some big numbers coming in now and hospital numbers at highest since March this year. 
 

 

 

"Almost always aligned with the right" and "inherently right winged" are very different things though. I'd agree with him.

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

Have you got the right thread?

Happens all the time . U could start a fairly bland thread like “ what’s your favourite shampoo ?  “ and I guarantee half down it “ that clown at Westminster “ ” will get a mention . 

[chuck berrys hairline]

Emma Yates the female pundit on before the Leicester v Liverpool game; 

"We had the sniffles and a sore throat was just a cold but seemingly it doesn't exist anymore everythings called Covid" 👀👏👏👏🙌

[Des Lynam]

21 minutes ago, chuck berrys hairline said:

Emma Yates the female pundit on before the Leicester v Liverpool game; 

"We had the sniffles and a sore throat was just a cold but seemingly it doesn't exist anymore everythings called Covid" 👀👏👏👏🙌

Yes I’ve got a friend and his family who had to isolate over Christmas whilst waiting on test results. The symptoms pointed to towards a cold and most informed him it was probably that. The collective fear and lack of logic as coronavirus dominates everything is sad and exhausting. 

[frankblack]

1 hour ago, Des Lynam said:

Yes I’ve got a friend and his family who had to isolate over Christmas whilst waiting on test results. The symptoms pointed to towards a cold and most informed him it was probably that. The collective fear and lack of logic as coronavirus dominates everything is sad and exhausting. 

 

Had they had positive LFTs to make them isolate while waiting for the full test results?  If the first set are negative then you are basically clear unless you think you really have something more than the sniffles?

[Des Lynam]

7 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Had they had positive LFTs to make them isolate while waiting for the full test results?  If the first set are negative then you are basically clear unless you think you really have something more than the sniffles?

Yeah they had positive LFT’s but then negative results after getting tested at drop in clinic. My pal was convinced it was as just a cold but his wife was worried. They done the right thing I suppose. 

[JFK-1]

It's definitely the one that's going to propel it to officially endemic. The prediction is that sometime in 2022 every last human on the planet will either be vaccinated, unvaccinated but been exposed and survived, or dead. The herd immunity point.

I tested positive Monday, i'm double vaccinated, the symptoms are mild. You have to think we got damn lucky with this in a way. The one that's going to take it to the herd immunity point is highly contagious but less virulent than others.

Could we have asked for much better in the circumstances?

[manaliveits105]

A number of scientists have said that the UK should follow in the footsteps of the US and reduce the COVID self-isolation period to five days, in an effort to protect the NHS.

The US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said on Monday that Americans who catch COVID and don't have any symptoms only need to self-isolate for five days, so long as masks are worn for another five.

 

It has prompted similar calls in the England, despite the rules being relaxed slightly ahead of Christmas.

 

I would expect the SG will have no choice but to increase the isolation period to 12 days now