Coronavirus Super Thread ( merged )

[JudyJudyJudy]

[Ray Gin]

12 minutes ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

She can't fail with her approach as she protects herself with the public health card.

 

If it's not as bad as feared she is not going to come out and apologise for fecking up Scotland's festive period 

 

If it's not as bad as feared the restrictions will have worked.

 

It's already worse than the best case scenario modelling.

[1971fozzy]

6 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

She wont. However she could ease restrictions earlier. But she wont.

 

 

Just to rub it in

 

 

Five things people in England can do this week that Scottish people can't - Edinburgh Live

 

 

depressing reading that.  She will lose a lot of votes because of this, most definitely this household and a few others I know of. 

[Maroon Sailor]

1 minute ago, Ray Gin said:

 

If it's not as bad as feared the restrictions will have worked.

 

It's already worse than the best case scenario modelling.

 

Yeah I'm sure keeping people out of football stadiums to go shopping is the reason behind it.

[JudyJudyJudy]

4 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

If it's not as bad as feared the restrictions will have worked.

 

It's already worse than the best case scenario modelling.

Oh come how can you prove the restrictions have worked ? Thats the issue . It cant be evidenced as the number crunching maybe just maybe totally exaggerated the numbers of new cases etc. 

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

3 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

If it's not as bad as feared the restrictions will have worked.

 

 

 

not necessarily as restrictions may have had a negligible affect on the better than expected outcome

 

also restrictions and the ‘cost’ of restrictions are better valued together rather than viewed separately

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 minutes ago, 1971fozzy said:

depressing reading that.  She will lose a lot of votes because of this, most definitely this household and a few others I know of. 

Oh most definitely there is a groundswell of ex NS supporters now. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

 

not necessarily as restrictions may have had a negligible affect on the better than expected outcome

 

also restrictions and the ‘cost’ of restrictions are better valued together rather than viewed separately

Yes the longer term impact is never taken into any equation with her and her supporters it seems. 

[jamboy1982]

4 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Oh most definitely there is a groundswell of ex NS supporters now. 

Strangely the recent polls would disagree with your suggestion 

[The Real Maroonblood]

45 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

😂

 

Rattled. 

Again. 

[Francis Albert]

1 hour ago, JamesM48 said:

In 2017 in the UK*:

5821 people died by suicide

3200 babies were stillborn – that’s around 9 babies every day

6,608 babies and children under 5 died – that’s more than 18 every day

869 school aged children (5-16 year-olds) died

7653 babies, children and young people (under the age of 18) died – that’s 21 every day

 You missed the obligatory word "sadly".  Apparently obligatory (or its alternative "tragically) only for Covid deaths, even if it the death is of a 99 year old with advanced dementia.

 

If only a small fraction of the money spent on Covid including the huge economic impact of "measures" had been spent on childhood illnesses 

 

 

Edited December 28, 2021 by Francis Albert

[Hesh]

11 minutes ago, 1971fozzy said:

depressing reading that.  She will lose a lot of votes because of this, most definitely this household and a few others I know of. 

Lose votes to who? The other parties re a shambles 

[1971fozzy]

Just now, jamboy1982 said:

Strangely the recent polls would disagree with your suggestion 

Don’t think many polls have been done in the last couple of weeks.  Plenty folk I know have changed their views completely due to recent policies.  And that also affects her Indy 2 proposal, as the consequences are some wouldn’t trust her to run a bath now never mind govern an independent country.

anyway , I digress. As I continue my isolation even though I am negative

[Don Dan]

Mass deaths and hospitalisations are now history': Vaccines expert backs PM's light-touch Covid measures as hospital admissions fall to half of level last Christmas despite record-breaking Omicron infection surge

 

[Ray Gin]

11 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Oh come how can you prove the restrictions have worked ? Thats the issue . It cant be evidenced as the number crunching maybe just maybe totally exaggerated the numbers of new cases etc. 

 

Compare them with the numbers in England.

Edited December 28, 2021 by Ray Gin

[NANOJAMBO]

53 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

 

She should pay a political price for her tyranny but we'll see. With one eyed nodding dog cultists like the Mighty Throb in her pocket it's too easy up here for her to rule with impunity 

😂

 

Try anger management, bud. 

[1971fozzy]

2 minutes ago, Hesh said:

Lose votes to who? The other parties re a shambles 

Likely to the party who has allowed some normality 

[JimmyCant]

1 hour ago, JamesM48 said:

Shes lost my Indy vote now. 

 

That’s just silly. Independence is essentially a non partisan issue. Yes it’s being driven by the SNP but they are in power on a purely Independence platform because there is nowhere else for the Pro Indy electorate to go. Once independence is achieved the political landscape in Scotland will shift  dramatically IMO, away from the SNP and back towards the traditional mainstream parties, or Scottish versions of them. The SNP are a means to an end for a substantial number of YES voters. NS will not be FM of an independent Scotland for more than one parliament IMO and might not even get the one. I’m not a fan of her recent handling of this pandemic. Banning football crowds was an utterly ludicrous, baseless and wholly contradictory decision and the straw that broke the camels back for me.

[Maroon Sailor]

4 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Oh most definitely there is a groundswell of ex NS supporters now. 

 

Don't think she had that many anyway. She is the Indy voters best hope just now so that is why she is kept in.

 

And she knows it.

[JudyJudyJudy]

7 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

 You missed the obligatory word "sadly".  Apparently obligatory (or its alternative "tragedly) only for Covid deaths, even if it the death is of a 99 year old with advanced dementia.

 

If only a small fraction of the money spent on Covid including the huge economic impact of "measures" had been spent on childhood illnesses 

 

 

The deaths of those children also didn't say if they had underlying health conditions. I can almost guarantee that 100% of them did. Anyway it was an emotive posting to elicit the usual response. 

7 minutes ago, 1971fozzy said:

Don’t think many polls have been done in the last couple of weeks.  Plenty folk I know have changed their views completely due to recent policies.  And that also affects her Indy 2 proposal, as the consequences are some wouldn’t trust her to run a bath now never mind govern an independent country.

anyway , I digress. As I continue my isolation even though I am negative

Completely agree. 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

15 hours ago, Adam_the_legend said:

Interesting read from a credible source

 

 

From his twitter account.

Talking to trust chief executives this morning, what’s very interesting is how many are talking about number of asymptomatic patients being admitted to hospital for other reasons and then testing positive for covid. Some are describing this as ‘incidental covid’… 7/19

 

Trusts not, at moment, reporting large numbers of patients with severe Covid type respiratory problems needing critical care. Also not needing to massively increase use of oxygen. Both of which we saw in last Jan’s delta variant peak + very difficult critical care surge…8/19

 

We should therefore be cautious about over-interpreting current raw covid admission data. As covid community infection rate rises rapidly due to omicron, we will get more cases of this type of incidental covid-19 in hospital. Raw data doesn’t distinguish between two. 9/19

 

He was on either Sky or BBC this morning, can't remember which, and was on about the above, he was asked about the 27% increase in hospital admissions with covid and replied thus.

That there is a huge difference now, because more people are being admitted with covid, instead of because of covid.

He went on to explain, the example he gave was someone falling off their bike and going to hospital, now they are there because they fell off their bike, yes, but whilst in A&E they get a covid test and test positive, they then appear as a covid admission in the official figures, even though they have no symptoms and no illness from covid and have been admitted because they fell off their bike.

 

Hence why he's saying people need to be careful with the raw data......probably because it's not in context.

 

[GinRummy]

4 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

Compare them with the numbers in England.

You think that proves the restrictions worked? You’d need to take a lot more things into consideration I think. London is a city that is cramped and densely populated for example. There will be other factors as well. 

[Nucky Thompson]

I don't often agree with Charlie Nicholas, but he's spot on here 

 

Charlie Nicholas furiously rips into SPFL for 'deplorable' reaction to Scots gov Covid restrictions - Football Scotland

 

 

 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

6 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

That’s just silly. Independence is essentially a non partisan issue. Yes it’s being driven by the SNP but they are in power on a purely Independence platform because there is nowhere else for the Pro Indy electorate to go. Once independence is achieved the political landscape in Scotland will shift  dramatically IMO, away from the SNP and back towards the traditional mainstream parties, or Scottish versions of them. The SNP are a means to an end for a substantial number of YES voters. NS will not be FM of an independent Scotland for more than one parliament IMO and might not even get the one. I’m not a fan of her recent handling of this pandemic. Banning football crowds was an utterly ludicrous, baseless and wholly contradictory decision and the straw that broke the camels back for me.

Not really. In fact i wouldn't trust most of the insipid politicians to run and Indy Scotland so its not just and SNP issue to me. However I have witnesses her Governance style the last 2 years and I don't like what i see. When I say " her" i mean the whole of her party so its not just targeted at her. 

[GinRummy]

2 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

From his twitter account.

Talking to trust chief executives this morning, what’s very interesting is how many are talking about number of asymptomatic patients being admitted to hospital for other reasons and then testing positive for covid. Some are describing this as ‘incidental covid’… 7/19

 

Trusts not, at moment, reporting large numbers of patients with severe Covid type respiratory problems needing critical care. Also not needing to massively increase use of oxygen. Both of which we saw in last Jan’s delta variant peak + very difficult critical care surge…8/19

 

We should therefore be cautious about over-interpreting current raw covid admission data. As covid community infection rate rises rapidly due to omicron, we will get more cases of this type of incidental covid-19 in hospital. Raw data doesn’t distinguish between two. 9/19

 

He was on either Sky or BBC this morning, can't remember which, and was on about the above, he was asked about the 27% increase in hospital admissions with covid and replied thus.

That there is a huge difference now, because more people are being admitted with covid, instead of because of covid.

He went on to explain, the example he gave was someone falling off their bike and going to hospital, now they are there because they fell off their bike, yes, but whilst in A&E they get a covid test and test positive, they then appear as a covid admission in the official figures, even though they have no symptoms and no illness from covid and have been admitted because they fell off their bike.

 

Hence why he's saying people need to be careful with the raw data......probably because it's not in context.

 

The third paragraph is critical. How many people caught it when they went to hospital?

[JudyJudyJudy]

3 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

You think that proves the restrictions worked? You’d need to take a lot more things into consideration I think. London is a city that is cramped and densely populated for example. There will be other factors as well. 

Agreed 

[Victorian]

The Royal Institute Christmas lectures are a bit a Christmas staple.  First one on BBC4 tonight and it's... JVT with the topic of viruses.

 

 

No doubt to be accused of indoctrinating children.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

Just now, GinRummy said:

The third paragraph is critical. How many people caught it when they went to hospital?

 

No, he was on about they already had covid but were asymptomatic upon admission to hospital, not that they caught covid in hospital.

This is what the hospital trusts are seeing more and more off, people with covid who don't know they have it.

[GinRummy]

Just now, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

No, he was on about they already had covid but were asymptomatic upon admission to hospital, not that they caught covid in hospital.

This is what the hospital trusts are seeing more and more off, people with covid who don't know they have it.

Got you now. So are those people included in the covid hospital admission figures? So, if I have a cardiac arrest and am found to have asymptomatic covid would I be in the figures for covid hospitalisation or not?

[Dagger Is Back]

3 hours ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Would you agree, though, that Sturgeon is obsessed with restrictions, to the point where she is almost looking for any excuse to impose them? The situation with Omicron doesn’t justify these restrictions. To be honest, Omicron never has - although I accept that governments needed some time to understand exactly what they were dealing with.

 

As an aside, that Neil Ferguson should never be heard of again. His projection of 5,000 deaths a day if there aren’t strict restrictions has been properly embarrassed. He clearly doesn’t have a clue.

I’m not sure I agree that she’s obsessed. What I would say though is that there are many decisions she’s taken that just don’t make any sense to me at all.

 

In saying that, the same goes for many decisions taken at Westminster.

 

Time will tell whether the stance taken at Westminster which differs so much from

that taken by the devolved nations and many others, was for the best.

 

Re NF. Totally agree. The media in general have been absolute arseholes throughout this crisis. Sky in particular have shown themselves up for what they are. Just gutter press and the TV equivalent of the Sun.

 

All of these so called experts have fanned the flames and should be ashamed of themselves. They won’t be of course.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

Just now, GinRummy said:

Got you now. So are those people included in the covid hospital admission figures? So, if I have a cardiac arrest and am found to have asymptomatic covid would I be in the figures for covid hospitalisation or not?

 

Yes, that's why he's saying to be cautious about the raw data.

[JimmyCant]

4 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Not really. In fact i wouldn't trust most of the insipid politicians to run and Indy Scotland so its not just and SNP issue to me. However I have witnesses her Governance style the last 2 years and I don't like what i see. When I say " her" i mean the whole of her party so its not just targeted at her. 

The UK GOV alternative with a huge Tory majority and that fool at the helm is utterly unacceptable to me. That’s something that needs to be got rid of. It’s an improvement on the future prospects of Scotland from day 1 to be rid of that corrupt gang of public school criminals. We have the right to make our own mess, or not.

[The Mighty Thor]

5 minutes ago, Victorian said:

The Royal Institute Christmas lectures are a bit a Christmas staple.  First one on BBC4 tonight and it's... JVT with the topic of viruses.

 

 

No doubt to be accused of indoctrinating children.

That would probably be educational, though not as much as this thread, where the real virologist and epidemiologists reside. 

[GinRummy]

2 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Yes, that's why he's saying to be cautious about the raw data.

Got you. Thanks for clearing that up. If I can pick your brains a bit further please? Someone in a non covid hospital ward catches covid while they’re in hospital and is moved to a covid ward. Do you know if that person is included in ‘new’ hospital admissions for covid?

Edited December 28, 2021 by GinRummy

[JudyJudyJudy]

10 minutes ago, Victorian said:

The Royal Institute Christmas lectures are a bit a Christmas staple.  First one on BBC4 tonight and it's... JVT with the topic of viruses.

 

 

No doubt to be accused of indoctrinating children.

Thanks for heads up. Ill avoid that now. Washing my hair and some ironing to do. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

14 minutes ago, Victorian said:

The Royal Institute Christmas lectures are a bit a Christmas staple.  First one on BBC4 tonight and it's... JVT with the topic of viruses.

 

 

No doubt to be accused of indoctrinating children.

This probably has more gravitas and is a real hoot

 

Watch Death to 2021 | Netflix Official Site

 

 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

1 minute ago, GinRummy said:

Got you. Thanks for clearing that up. If I can pick your brains a bit further please? Someone in a non covid hospital ward catches covid while they’re in hospital and is moved to a covid ward. Do you know if that person is included in ‘new’ hospital admissions for covid?

 

I don't see why not, but I don't know for sure tbh.

 

I meant to add this.

The hospital admissions are starting to look the same as the covid deaths, where you are counted as a covid death, if you die from any reason within 28 days of a positive test, in other words you could test positive but have nothing more than a sore throat and a sniffle or two, but then get hit by a bus and are then recorded as a covid death in the official data......I just think it's wrong and gives a wrong and inflated figure of the true numbers of people involved.

 

 

[GinRummy]

3 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

I don't see why not, but I don't know for sure tbh.

 

I meant to add this.

The hospital admissions are starting to look the same as the covid deaths, where you are counted as a covid death, if you die from any reason within 28 days of a positive test, in other words you could test positive but have nothing more than a sore throat and a sniffle or two, but then get hit by a bus and are then recorded as a covid death in the official data......I just think it's wrong and gives a wrong and inflated figure of the true numbers of people involved.

 

 

For me, it’s all a bit confusing. Someone goes to hospital with something completely unrelated while having asymptomatic covid and goes down as a covid hospital admission? Someone else is in hospital with an unrelated illness and catches covid and goes down as a covid hospitalisation? If that is correct then clear data is needed on how many are included in these circumstances. 
 

I’ve heard about this, passing away from something else and being included in the figures. Clearly paints the wrong picture.

 

All the data since the start of this whole pandemic has been utter nonsense tbh. 

[Roxy Hearts]

20 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

That would probably be educational, though not as much as this thread, where the real virologist and epidemiologists reside. 

I would hate to be in the company of some of the characters on here! Angry all the time. Enjoy what's left of the festive season MT. 🥳👍

[The Mighty Thor]

7 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

I would hate to be in the company of some of the characters on here! Angry all the time. Enjoy what's left of the festive season MT. 🥳👍

I'd love to Roxy but I'm hiding under my bed, petrified that covid will get me, whilst awaiting the latest dictat from Chief Mammy on my wind up SNP provided radio (which was a bribe) ☹

 

 

😂👍

[Horatio Caine]

23 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

I don't see why not, but I don't know for sure tbh.

 

I meant to add this.

The hospital admissions are starting to look the same as the covid deaths, where you are counted as a covid death, if you die from any reason within 28 days of a positive test, in other words you could test positive but have nothing more than a sore throat and a sniffle or two, but then get hit by a bus and are then recorded as a covid death in the official data......I just think it's wrong and gives a wrong and inflated figure of the true numbers of people involved.

 

 

Professor Paul Hunter (from Norwich I think?) was on the BBC this morning also pointing out this skewing of the stats.  It's been blithely glossed over until now.

[JudyJudyJudy]

15 minutes ago, Horatio Caine said:

Professor Paul Hunter (from Norwich I think?) was on the BBC this morning also pointing out this skewing of the stats.  It's been blithely glossed over until now.

It’s been like that from the beginning 

[JudyJudyJudy]

19 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

I'd love to Roxy but I'm hiding under my bed, petrified that covid will get me, whilst awaiting the latest dictat from Chief Mammy on my wind up SNP provided radio (which was a bribe) ☹

 

 

😂👍

Get yourself out from the covers . The toon is heaving 

[Brighton Jambo]

The numbers of posters commenting that Boris can’t act for fear of his back benchers as if that is a bad thing shows how much of a mess Scotland is in.  That’s exactly how a mainstream political party should operate;  Dissenting voiced within the party scrutinising their leaders decisions and holding them to account.

 

They (albeit a minority) are representing the views of their constituents by saying enough is enough.  Interestingly there is also a difference of opinion within the Labour Party on restrictions. 

 

Not in Scotland though, not one single SNP MP or MSP has challenged the leaders thinking, not one.  That’s not democracy given we know for a fact the are huge swathes of the population, including SNP voters, who don’t agree with their current approach.

Scotland would be a far healthier country (in every sense of that word) if the SNP acted like a normal political party and allowed for scrutiny and a difference of opinion.  

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

The numbers of posters commenting that Boris can’t act for fear of his back benchers as if that is a bad thing shows how much of a mess Scotland is in.  That’s exactly how a mainstream political party should operate;  Dissenting voiced within the party scrutinising their leaders decisions and holding them to account.

 

They (albeit a minority) are representing the views of their constituents by saying enough is enough.  Interestingly there is also a difference of opinion within the Labour Party on restrictions. 

 

Not in Scotland though, not one single SNP MP or MSP has challenged the leaders thinking, not one.  That’s not democracy given we know for a fact the are huge swathes of the population, including SNP voters, who don’t agree with their current approach.

Scotland would be a far healthier country (in every sense of that word) if the SNP acted like a normal political party and allowed for scrutiny and a difference of opinion.  

 

 

[1971fozzy]

2 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

The numbers of posters commenting that Boris can’t act for fear of his back benchers as if that is a bad thing shows how much of a mess Scotland is in.  That’s exactly how a mainstream political party should operate;  Dissenting voiced within the party scrutinising their leaders decisions and holding them to account.

 

They (albeit a minority) are representing the views of their constituents by saying enough is enough.  Interestingly there is also a difference of opinion within the Labour Party on restrictions. 

 

Not in Scotland though, not one single SNP MP or MSP has challenged the leaders thinking, not one.  That’s not democracy given we know for a fact the are huge swathes of the population, including SNP voters, who don’t agree with their current approach.

Scotland would be a far healthier country (in every sense of that word) if the SNP acted like a normal political party and allowed for scrutiny and a difference of opinion.  

 

I really wish there was a like button. This is spot on and a problem for all devolved nations.  Backslapping and what I would suggest ‘fear of opposing the leader’  is not healthy. And here we are

[Lord Montpelier]

2 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

The numbers of posters commenting that Boris can’t act for fear of his back benchers as if that is a bad thing shows how much of a mess Scotland is in.  That’s exactly how a mainstream political party should operate;  Dissenting voiced within the party scrutinising their leaders decisions and holding them to account.

 

They (albeit a minority) are representing the views of their constituents by saying enough is enough.  Interestingly there is also a difference of opinion within the Labour Party on restrictions. 

 

Not in Scotland though, not one single SNP MP or MSP has challenged the leaders thinking, not one.  That’s not democracy given we know for a fact the are huge swathes of the population, including SNP voters, who don’t agree with their current approach.

Scotland would be a far healthier country (in every sense of that word) if the SNP acted like a normal political party and allowed for scrutiny and a difference of opinion.  

 

Correct.  It seems very rare, during covid or otherwise, that an SNP back bencher (or cabinet member for that matter) has come out and openly challenged the leadership. Cherry I think did, and look what happened to her. That's not healthy in any democracy, stinks in fact . 

[GinRummy]

5 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said:

Correct.  It seems very rare, during covid or otherwise, that an SNP back bencher (or cabinet member for that matter) has come out and openly challenged the leadership. Cherry I think did, and look what happened to her. That's not healthy in any democracy, stinks in fact . 

It’s fairly unsurprising though. Let’s face it, the sole purpose of the party is independence. Hardly surprising that its politicians will compromise all their other beliefs and opinions for what they believe is the greater good. 

Edited December 28, 2021 by GinRummy

[Lord Montpelier]

1 minute ago, GinRummy said:

It’s fairly unsurprising though. Let’s face it, the sole purpose of the party is independence. Hardly surprising that it’s politicians will compromise all their other beliefs and opinions for what they believe is the greater good. 

Yep, so showing the dangers of voting in a single issue protest party 

[Ex member of the SaS]

They stated early on they need 280 people in hospital to know how bad this strain would be, However the strain is mild so number take long to reach that high. They also know from South Africa that people were being admitted for aids and other reasons ( aids is still high over there ) only to find they had Omicron. They have known for a long time now that Omicron is mild and keep using the POSSIBLITY that high numbers means more in hospital.

Every time you listen they use words like possibly, maybe, could be, all the time knowing they are lying.

So take away testing ( testing only proves you have it ( or not ) and many are finding the symptoms are so mild they didn't even know until the test. OK that means you could be passing it on.......BUT the tests only show results two or three days after you are most infectious. Now we have the booster and recent reports state that the booster looses efficacy after 10 weeks.

The simple thing is take away restrictions and allow us to judge the level of risk each person is wiling to take.

Vaccinated or not doesn't stop you getting it or passing it on and while in most cases those who are jab don't generally take it as bad many still do.

The only ones benefitting are those making money from Vaccines and PPE.

If you are watching TV and this is making you afraid then stay in and leave the rest of us to get on with life.