More Tory lies

[Don Dan]

Dear

We’re giving the NHS an extra £394 million – every week. Making sure it thrives for generations to come. Do you back this policy? Then join the party making it happen.

It’s the 70th anniversary of the NHS. And it’s our job to make sure that it thrives for the next 70 years – and beyond.

That’s why we’ve got a long-term plan to support it.

We’ll be giving the NHS an extra £20.5 billion a year by 2023-24. Cutting waste. Helping to improve survival rates for cancer patients. And delivering better mental health services.

All of us, whatever our income, deserve access to world-class healthcare. Not just now – but for generations to come. And our investment in the NHS will make that possible.

We’ll fund our plan in two ways.

The money we now send to the EU will go to the NHS.

And as a country taxpayers will have to contribute a bit more for the NHS in a fair and balanced way.

The NHS is part of Britain’s heritage. That’s why we’re investing an extra £394 million a week – to make sure it thrives for generations to come. Do you back what we’re doing? Then help us deliver it – by joining the Conservatives today.

Yours sincerely,

Theresa May,

Prime Minister and Leader of the Conservative

[Governor Tarkin]

Well that's me convinced.

[Cade]

Pumping all this money in to still leave the NHS with less funding than it had during the Blair years.

 

Essentially admitting that Austerity has failed and put lives in danger.

[jambo lodge]

11 minutes ago, Cade said:

Pumping all this money in to still leave the NHS with less funding than it had during the Blair years.

 

Essentially admitting that Austerity has failed and put lives in danger.

Terrible isn't it and to think the SNAT government will get an extra £2b because of it. Grievance runs deep with the Murrells band of brothers. 

[Space Mackerel]

4 minutes ago, jambo lodge said:

Terrible isn't it and to think the SNAT government will get an extra £2b because of it. Grievance runs deep with the Murrells band of brothers. 

 

No we won’t. All evidence points to us being independent by then. 

[Phil Dunphy]

16 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

No we won’t. All evidence points to us being independent by then. 

 

 

No bother Eck. 

[jambo lodge]

19 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

No we won’t. All evidence points to us being independent by then. 

If you ever produce "evidence" it will be a first.

[Space Mackerel]

6 minutes ago, jambo lodge said:

If you ever produce "evidence" it will be a first.

 

Theyve already rolled out Broon, must be getting squeaky pant time.

[Cade]

35 minutes ago, jambo lodge said:

Terrible isn't it and to think the SNAT government will get an extra £2b because of it. Grievance runs deep with the Murrells band of brothers. 

We'll also be getting a share of the extra borrowing debt to confuse the GERS even more.

 

[Cade]

"Say you support it or I'll take it away"

 

Blackmailing the NHS chief into saying it was enough money when it's clearly not.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/jun/19/hammond-ordered-nhs-chief-to-back-health-funding-plan

[Space Mackerel]

4 minutes ago, Cade said:

We'll also be getting a share of the extra borrowing debt to confuse the GERS even more.

 

 

They don’t understand that bit at all, they can’t fathom out how the U.K. is £1.8 trillion in debt.

[gjcc]

35 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

They don’t understand that bit at all, they can’t fathom out how the U.K. is £1.8 trillion in debt.

 

Easily solved though, go into admin then liquidation and come back as a third world country called the the U.K. Then work out way back up the country leagues with borrowed money whilst claiming to be the same country or a different country when it suits. 

 

Poland wants their people back? Nah sorry they went to the old U.K., take it up with them. 

[jack D and coke]

11 hours ago, Dannie Boy said:

Dear

We’re giving the NHS an extra £394 million – every week. Making sure it thrives for generations to come. Do you back this policy? Then join the party making it happen.

It’s the 70th anniversary of the NHS. And it’s our job to make sure that it thrives for the next 70 years – and beyond.

That’s why we’ve got a long-term plan to support it.

We’ll be giving the NHS an extra £20.5 billion a year by 2023-24. Cutting waste. Helping to improve survival rates for cancer patients. And delivering better mental health services.

All of us, whatever our income, deserve access to world-class healthcare. Not just now – but for generations to come. And our investment in the NHS will make that possible.

We’ll fund our plan in two ways.

The money we now send to the EU will go to the NHS.

And as a country taxpayers will have to contribute a bit more for the NHS in a fair and balanced way.

The NHS is part of Britain’s heritage. That’s why we’re investing an extra £394 million a week – to make sure it thrives for generations to come. Do you back what we’re doing? Then help us deliver it – by joining the Conservatives today.

Yours sincerely,

Theresa May,

Prime Minister and Leader of the Conservative

 

 

[jack D and coke]

10 hours ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

They don’t understand that bit at all, they can’t fathom out how the U.K. is £1.8 trillion in debt.

Britain will soon be like the US, practically insolvent. 

[Thunderstruck]

43 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Britain will soon be like the US, practically insolvent. 

 

Could you remind us who owns the U.K. debt?

 

In particular, the entity that owns approximately one third of that debt and what the servicing of that debt costs the government. 

[Space Mackerel]

37 minutes ago, Thunderstruck said:

 

Could you remind us who owns the U.K. debt?

 

In particular, the entity that owns approximately one third of that debt and what the servicing of that debt costs the government. 

 

So by this post you would be quite happy for an independent Scotland to run up a significant debt in the event it’s income didn’t match its spending? This is what you’re saying? Correct? 

[jack D and coke]

39 minutes ago, Thunderstruck said:

 

Could you remind us who owns the U.K. debt?

 

In particular, the entity that owns approximately one third of that debt and what the servicing of that debt costs the government. 

You’re not suggesting Scotland surely? Seriously tell me you’re not? 

[Thunderstruck]

7 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

So by this post you would be quite happy for an independent Scotland to run up a significant debt in the event it’s income didn’t match its spending? This is what you’re saying? Correct? 

 

It would have to if there wasn’t to be drastic changes to public expenditure or taxation. But there is a plan to avoid that, isn’t there. Tell us there is a plan. 

 

 

[jack D and coke]

11 minutes ago, Thunderstruck said:

 

It would have to if there wasn’t to be drastic changes to public expenditure or taxation. But there is a plan to avoid that, isn’t there. Tell us there is a plan. 

 

 

Technically you don’t need to worry too much about debt as long as you issue your own currency. 

As long as Scotland gets its own central bank and currency a deficit and government debt isn’t all that much to worry about. 

In theory it’s not like running a household budget. 

[Thunderstruck]

28 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

You’re not suggesting Scotland surely? Seriously tell me you’re not? 

 

Owner of debt = creditor. Any notion of who they are?

 

3 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Technically you don’t need to worry too much about debt as long as you issue your own currency. 

As long as Scotland gets its own central bank and currency a deficit and government debt isn’t all that much to worry about. 

In theory it’s not like running a household budget. 

 

Last time I checked, the U.K. had its own currency. So, by your logic, the U.K. debt “isn’t all that much to worry about”. 

 

Looking forward to hearing how Scotland might get itself a Central Bank - if the Euro isn’t to be used. 

[jack D and coke]

4 minutes ago, Thunderstruck said:

 

Owner of debt = creditor. Any notion of who they are?

 

 

Last time I checked, the U.K. had its own currency. So, by your logic, the U.K. debt “isn’t all that much to worry about”. 

 

Looking forward to hearing how Scotland might get itself a Central Bank - if the Euro isn’t to be used. 

The BOE owns a lot of the debt through GILTS and the government services the debt or transfers it form one entry sheet to another. Technically the debt isn’t to be worried about although depending on who you believe it is. The RBS has technically been insolvent since the financial collapse but it’s still here due to QE or printing more money. When you print your own money you can’t run out if it. 

Not sure why Scotland couldn’t get a central bank tbh. Who says we’d have the Euro either? That’s not a given is it? 

Imo Scotland would have to go very conservative in its young years as an independent country, the socialist dream is just that imo. It wouldn’t happen I don’t think we’d have to compete with England and Ireland as Europe’s English speaking countries. High taxes etc wouldn’t work for me. 

I’m not an expert but let’s be honest neither are you. 

 

[Thunderstruck]

40 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

The BOE owns a lot of the debt through GILTS and the government services the debt or transfers it form one entry sheet to another. Technically the debt isn’t to be worried about although depending on who you believe it is. The RBS has technically been insolvent since the financial collapse but it’s still here due to QE or printing more money. When you print your own money you can’t run out if it. 

Not sure why Scotland couldn’t get a central bank tbh. Who says we’d have the Euro either? That’s not a given is it? 

Imo Scotland would have to go very conservative in its young years as an independent country, the socialist dream is just that imo. It wouldn’t happen I don’t think we’d have to compete with England and Ireland as Europe’s English speaking countries. High taxes etc wouldn’t work for me. 

I’m not an expert but let’s be honest neither are you. 

 

 

At least you are willing to admit that Scotland would “have to go quite conservative in the early years”. Is that code for “austerity max”?

 

Quite how that would work if “higher taxes wouldn’t work for you” is a mystery unless you plan to drastically cut public spending or to borrow heavily.

 

Sorry, but not seeing the Scottish electorate buying that. 

 

The “Scottish Monetary Institution” aka Central Bank:- this is a link to a fairly straightforward explanation of pros/cons and costs - 

https://www.gla.ac.uk/media/media_358421_en.pdf

 

”Not the Euro” - so why all the stomping about over being “dragged out of the EU” if the ultimate aim is not to remain in the EU?

[jack D and coke]

3 minutes ago, Thunderstruck said:

 

At least you are willing to admit that Scotland would “have to go quite conservative in the early years”. Is that code for “austerity max”?

 

Quite how that would work if “higher taxes wouldn’t work for you” is a mystery unless you plan to drastically cut public spending or to borrow heavily.

 

Sorry, but not seeing the Scottish electorate buying that. 

 

The “Scottish Monetary Institution” aka Central Bank:- this is a link to a fairly straightforward explanation of pros/cons and costs - 

https://www.gla.ac.uk/media/media_358421_en.pdf

 

”Not the Euro” - so why all the stomping about over being “dragged out of the EU” if the ultimate aim is not to remain in the EU?

I’ll have a read at that when I get a chance. 

The euro might be one of the options but I’m fairly sure there is no actual preference to go down that route. 

[Boris]

28 minutes ago, Thunderstruck said:

 

”Not the Euro” - so why all the stomping about over being “dragged out of the EU” if the ultimate aim is not to remain in the EU?

 

Plenty members of the EU who don't use the Euro.

 

Were an independent Scotland to joing the EU, I reckon immediate use of the Euro would not be a pre-requisite.  Like Sweden, for example.

[Don Dan]

34 minutes ago, Thunderstruck said:

 

At least you are willing to admit that Scotland would “have to go quite conservative in the early years”. Is that code for “austerity max”?

 

Quite how that would work if “higher taxes wouldn’t work for you” is a mystery unless you plan to drastically cut public spending or to borrow heavily.

 

Sorry, but not seeing the Scottish electorate buying that. 

 

The “Scottish Monetary Institution” aka Central Bank:- this is a link to a fairly straightforward explanation of pros/cons and costs - 

https://www.gla.ac.uk/media/media_358421_en.pdf

 

”Not the Euro” - so why all the stomping about over being “dragged out of the EU” if the ultimate aim is not to remain in the EU?

 

Which ever way the SNP adopt a currency and monetary policy it will mean austerity in an iScotland and for more years than would be tolerated. IMO. 

Edited June 20, 2018 by Dannie Boy

[jack D and coke]

8 minutes ago, Dannie Boy said:

 

Which ever way the SNP adopt a currency and monetary policy it will mean austerity in an iScotland and for more years than would be tolerated. IMO. 

In what way are you qualified to make that assertion? 

[Thunderstruck]

4 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

Plenty members of the EU who don't use the Euro.

 

Were an independent Scotland to joing the EU, I reckon immediate use of the Euro would not be a pre-requisite.  Like Sweden, for example.

 

Most of those that avoid use of the Euro are obliged to join in the future. Only the U.K. and Denmark have no requirement to join. 

 

It would not be an immediate requirement but the EU is quite clear that “Accession States”, which would include Scotland, would be required to adopt the Euro to achieve full integration. 

 

https://ec.europa.eu/info/business-economy-euro/euro-area/enlargement-euro-area/who-can-join-and-when_en

 

Of course, Scotland doesn’t need to join the EU but that would mean divorcing itself from two significant trading partners - seems sound. 

[Boris]

Just now, Thunderstruck said:

 

Most of those that avoid use of the Euro are obliged to join in the future. Only the U.K. and Denmark have no requirement to join. 

 

It would not be an immediate requirement but the EU is quite clear that “Accession States”, which would include Scotland, would be required to adopt the Euro to achieve full integration. 

 

https://ec.europa.eu/info/business-economy-euro/euro-area/enlargement-euro-area/who-can-join-and-when_en

 

Of course, Scotland doesn’t need to join the EU but that would mean divorcing itself from two significant trading partners - seems sound. 

 

So in ither words, yes we will join the Euro, but not yet....

 

Do you think Sweden will ever adopt the Euro?  I don't.

 

 

[Thunderstruck]

1 minute ago, jack D and coke said:

In what way are you qualified to make that assertion? 

 

Anyone who has read the output of the “Growth Commission” can make such an assertion. 

[Thunderstruck]

7 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

So in ither words, yes we will join the Euro, but not yet....

 

Do you think Sweden will ever adopt the Euro?  I don't.

 

 

 

Any time would be a bad time for an independent Scotland - politically and economically. 

 

If reports leaked by the German Media are any indication, the EU intends to force adoption by all EU members by 2025. This will result in either expansion of Euro usage or hasten more “..exits”. 

[jack D and coke]

13 minutes ago, Thunderstruck said:

 

Anyone who has read the output of the “Growth Commission” can make such an assertion. 

Really? Ireland and the likes can turn their economy around in about 8 years and do stuff like pay their unemployed and their pensioners more than we could dream of here but Scotland would be in austerity for eternity? Like Broony says, that right? 

What is it that makes us so incapable btw? Literally incapable of anything unless England is holding our hand? 

Are you suggesting the snp and the indy movement want to make us all skint? For ever? Collapse the country, make everybody leave, take their money out etc etc? 

Does this sound familiar btw? 

Brexit is more important to the English than the union btw it seems.

 

[Thunderstruck]

4 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Really? Ireland and the likes can turn their economy around in about 8 years and do stuff like pay their unemployed and their pensioners more than we could dream of here but Scotland would be in austerity for eternity? Like Broony says, that right? 

What is it that makes us so incapable btw? Literally incapable of anything unless England is holding our hand? 

Are you suggesting the snp and the indy movement want to make us all skint? For ever? Collapse the country, make everybody leave, take their money out etc etc? 

Does this sound familiar btw? 

Brexit is more important to the English than the union btw it seems.

 

 

Can I remind you - again - that the forecast of austerity is now coming from those who advocate independence. 

 

Is this “socialist dream” you mentioned earlier worth it to you if it means hardship for others. 

[Boris]

15 minutes ago, Thunderstruck said:

 

Any time would be a bad time for an independent Scotland - politically and economically. 

 

If reports leaked by the German Media are any indication, the EU intends to force adoption by all EU members by 2025. This will result in either expansion of Euro usage or hasten more “..exits”. 

 

Which is why it won't happen.

[Space Mackerel]

3 hours ago, Thunderstruck said:

 

It would have to if there wasn’t to be drastic changes to public expenditure or taxation. But there is a plan to avoid that, isn’t there. Tell us there is a plan. 

 

 

 

How do you know that there would need to be drastic changes? Drastic compared to what? 

 

[Thunderstruck]

Just now, Boris said:

 

Which is why it won't happen.

 

Exactly right and hence the reason why new entrants will not be afforded the leeway granted in the past.  

[Boris]

1 minute ago, Thunderstruck said:

 

Exactly right and hence the reason why new entrants will not be afforded the leeway granted in the past.  

 

Disagree there.

[Don Dan]

33 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

In what way are you qualified to make that assertion? 

 

Do I need to be qualified to have an opinion on someone else paper? If you’re only aver allowed to be qualified to have an opinion nothing would ever get done or voted on. It’s from these types of papers the electorate make judgments when putting a Yes or a No or an X on a ballot paper. 

[Space Mackerel]

2 minutes ago, Dannie Boy said:

 

Do I need to be qualified to have an opinion on someone else paper? If you’re only aver allowed to be qualified to have an opinion nothing would ever get done or voted on. It’s from these types of papers the electorate make judgments when putting a Yes or a No or an X on a ballot paper. 

 

Have you read it? ?

[Thunderstruck]

2 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

How do you know that there would need to be drastic changes? Drastic compared to what? 

 

 

Can you point to anything that says that there will be no belt-tightening?

 

Everything that is now seen on this - including from the stacked-deck Growth Commission - points to longer and deeper austerity that the we currently enjoy; an austerity that is described by critics of the “hated” Tories as damaging. 

 

Pick whatever adjective you you like if drastic doesn’t convey sufficiently the depth of austerity. 

[jack D and coke]

10 minutes ago, Thunderstruck said:

 

Can I remind you - again - that the forecast of austerity is now coming from those who advocate independence. 

 

Is this “socialist dream” you mentioned earlier worth it to you if it means hardship for others. 

I have no socialist dreams. My point earlier about that was more about other people suggesting Scotland would become this after indy. I don’t agree. 

[Thunderstruck]

5 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

Disagree there.

 

It might be useful to know (from the architects of independence) :-

 

Is there a plan to apply for separate EU membership?

 

If so, what would be the conditions for membership?

[Space Mackerel]

4 minutes ago, Thunderstruck said:

 

Can you point to anything that says that there will be no belt-tightening?

 

Everything that is now seen on this - including from the stacked-deck Growth Commission - points to longer and deeper austerity that the we currently enjoy; an austerity that is described by critics of the “hated” Tories as damaging. 

 

Pick whatever adjective you you like if drastic doesn’t convey sufficiently the depth of austerity. 

 

How do you know the future growth rate of an independent Scotland? 

[Thunderstruck]

Just now, Space Mackerel said:

 

How do you know the future growth rate of an independent Scotland? 

 

Do you? If so, please tell us. 

[Space Mackerel]

4 minutes ago, Thunderstruck said:

 

Do you? If so, please tell us. 

 

Because the facts DONT lie. Smaller independent European countries similar to Scotland are financially and socially better off. 

 

You ignore this fact fact every time you post with the nonsense from fear mongering right wing hacks. 

[Thunderstruck]

18 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

Because the facts DONT lie. Smaller independent European countries similar to Scotland are financially and socially better off. 

 

You ignore this fact fact every time you post with the nonsense from fear mongering right wing hacks. 

 

The Growth Commission is now one of the “fear mongering right wing hacks”. Interesting. 

 

Although, I didn’t ask about other countries, I asked if you had any sort of idea what sort of growth rate Scotland might enjoy if it were to be independent. 

 

Hoping to be like other small countries suggests that you don’t know so why not be honest enough to admit that. 

[JamboX2]

2 hours ago, Boris said:

 

Plenty members of the EU who don't use the Euro.

 

Were an independent Scotland to joing the EU, I reckon immediate use of the Euro would not be a pre-requisite.  Like Sweden, for example.

 

I think we'd join. 

[JamboX2]

1 hour ago, Boris said:

 

Disagree there.

 

Again. I think you'd be proven wrong. 

 

Scotland's membership would be new and based on the Lisbon membership criteria. Which includes the Euro.

 

It would likely be phased.

 

But imo - if it's the Euro as an EU member or a unofficial use Sterling then the former wins out for me.

 

Added to that - the SNP have made fishing their hill to die on with the EU. Apparently we will do in joining what Norway and Iceland failed to do: reform the CFP.

[Boris]

1 hour ago, Thunderstruck said:

 

It might be useful to know (from the architects of independence) :-

 

Is there a plan to apply for separate EU membership?

 

If so, what would be the conditions for membership?

 

7 minutes ago, JamboX2 said:

 

Again. I think you'd be proven wrong. 

 

Scotland's membership would be new and based on the Lisbon membership criteria. Which includes the Euro.

 

It would likely be phased.

 

But imo - if it's the Euro as an EU member or a unofficial use Sterling then the former wins out for me.

 

Added to that - the SNP have made fishing their hill to die on with the EU. Apparently we will do in joining what Norway and Iceland failed to do: reform the CFP.

 

From https://ec.europa.eu/info/business-economy-euro/euro-area/enlargement-euro-area/who-can-join-and-when_en

 

The Treaty does not specify a particular timetable for joining the euro area, but leaves it to Member States to develop their own strategies for meeting the condition for euro adoption.

[Thunderstruck]

29 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

 

From https://ec.europa.eu/info/business-economy-euro/euro-area/enlargement-euro-area/who-can-join-and-when_en

 

The Treaty does not specify a particular timetable for joining the euro area, but leaves it to Member States to develop their own strategies for meeting the condition for euro adoption.

 

I think we had established that earlier but how long would that take and, most importantly, what would be used in the interim. 

 

This is is the type of basic planning that should be available before anyone launches into talk of referendums. Instead, we have threats of referendums under any flimsy pretext when it is clear that the back of a fag packet is more than ample space to jot down the post independence economic strategy. 

[Boris]

3 minutes ago, Thunderstruck said:

 

I think we had established that earlier but how long would that take and, most importantly, what would be used in the interim. 

 

This is is the type of basic planning that should be available before anyone launches into talk of referendums. Instead, we have threats of referendums under any flimsy pretext when it is clear that the back of a fag packet is more than ample space to jot down the post independence economic strategy. 

 

I've no idea, nor do I pretend to have one!  My point was more that if an Indy Scotland joins the EU, adopting the Euro is not a forgon conclusion.

 

Personally, I'd prefer an independent Scottish groat/pound/mark/crown whatever.