More Tory lies

[maroonlegions]

15 hours ago, deesidejambo said:

Wrong again.    Rudd gave evidence on 25th April which stated no deportations as of that time.   You are quoting a prior comment made on 16th April which was subsequently corrected.

 

Its you Shaun.  Who believes what you want to believe.

 

Hyperbole Shaun

 

Oh the irony of anyone believing  a KNOWN liar such as Rudd , who bare faced lied to a commons  select commission when she faced questions on the Windrush scandal.

 

Do you believe anyone AGAIN ,that is known to you ,in your social  circles, that is known to lie??

 

Would you not have trouble in believing such a person AGAIN.

 

Did not take you long to add your usual insult to someone who you are debating with.

 

You  really get off in making any debate a personal one dont you.

 

You still banging on about "no deportations" in regards to those effected by Windrush, how about detention, denial of NHS treatment . 

 

You seem to take every word that the establishment rams down your throat, in fact you are the establishments dream, a gate keeper of the authorities.

 

No matter the spin peoples lives were ruined  by the Windrush scandal  and Rudd lied.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now THIS could get very interesting and very messy, very quickly.

 

And in the words of  week and wobbly May. Nothing has changed.

 

 

 

Oh and not to forget another liar, Chris Grayling.

 

How many Tories must be caught with their pants down wiggling their arses to the public before enough is enough.

 

Tom Richmond: How Chris Grayling misled the North over rail electrification – and why he should now resign;

 

THE truth can finally be revealed about how Transport Secretary Chris Grayling misled this newspaper and the region’s commuters during last year’s election…

YORKSHIREPOST.CO.UK

 

But but but, its not from the BBC so it all must be lies.

 

Edited May 6, 2018 by maroonlegions

[SwindonJambo]

On 04/05/2018 at 21:03, Space Mackerel said:

 

I dont, in Scotland we have a 3rd way. 

 

Its actually really qquite bizarre that after all these years of democracy, that it still boils down to the big 2 parties. Almost like it’s been manufactured by the people who own the newspapers and media. You know, the folks with all the money. 

 

You do have a 3rd way, but you are slavishly loyal to that party rain, hail or shine and regardless of leader or policies so you may not be the best example, in fairness. There are others on here who support Indy but still criticise your party when they see fit, while you never  criticise them.

[Trapper John McIntyre]

Bad as Maggie May and her gang are, anyone wanting Corbyn for PM is off their rocker.

 

Christ, the very thought.

[Cade]

I see that the Tory councillor who had been suspended for being a racist was let back in just long enough for the tories to take control of that council by one seat, then immediately suspended again.

*******s.

[SwindonJambo]

5 hours ago, Trapper John McIntyre said:

Bad as Maggie May and her gang are, anyone wanting Corbyn for PM is off their rocker.

 

Christ, the very thought.

 

I agree. He couldn’t run a bath. I doubt he even wants the job. He’s got his dream job - leader of the opposition with an increased vote share. Corbyn is a protest leader. Criticises those who act when he’s never had to act himself. He’s never had a proper job in the real World. He’d shit himself if he won an election. 

Edited May 6, 2018 by SwindonJambo

[JamboX2]

4 hours ago, SwindonJambo said:

 

I agree. He couldn’t run a bath. I doubt he even wants the job. He’s got his dream job - leader of the opposition with an increased vote share. Corbyn is a protest leader. Criticises those who act when he’s never had to act himself. He’s never had a proper job in the real World. He’d shit himself if he won an election. 

 

All for pointing out genuine failings but he was a local reporter, youth worker, teacher and trade union official before being elected a councillor.

 

I find it a bit odd we have bemoaned a succession of SPADs etc getting high office and now do so an ex-teacher.

 

To me politics would be infinitely better if people of a broader range if backgrounds were back in public office. We have seen the ramifications of austerity to ordinary people and now the disasters of an immigration policy devoid of reality because of people who have little interest than chasing rather than shaping public opinion. 

 

I am not overly impressed by JC of late. But at the very least he is trying to shape opinion and vote based on his experiences rather than chase the UKIP vote and listen to what Paul Dacre wants.

[deesidejambo]

22 hours ago, maroonlegions said:

 

Oh the irony of anyone believing  a KNOWN liar such as Rudd , who bare faced lied to a commons  select commission when she faced questions on the Windrush scandal.

 

Do you believe anyone AGAIN ,that is known to you ,in your social  circles, that is known to lie??

 

Would you not have trouble in believing such a person AGAIN.

 

Did not take you long to add your usual insult to someone who you are debating with.

 

You  really get off in making any debate a personal one dont you.

 

You still banging on about "no deportations" in regards to those effected by Windrush, how about detention, denial of NHS treatment . 

 

You seem to take every word that the establishment rams down your throat, in fact you are the establishments dream, a gate keeper of the authorities.

 

No matter the spin peoples lives were ruined  by the Windrush scandal  and Rudd lied.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now THIS could get very interesting and very messy, very quickly.

 

And in the words of  week and wobbly May. Nothing has changed.

 

 

 

Oh and not to forget another liar, Chris Grayling.

 

How many Tories must be caught with their pants down wiggling their arses to the public before enough is enough.

 

Tom Richmond: How Chris Grayling misled the North over rail electrification – and why he should now resign;

 

THE truth can finally be revealed about how Transport Secretary Chris Grayling misled this newspaper and the region’s commuters during last year’s election…

YORKSHIREPOST.CO.UK

 

But but but, its not from the BBC so it all must be lies.

 

Yawn.

 

Since you asked, I think its shameful if any Windrush people were detained, but as yet there is no evidence of detentions of Windrush people either.  The Govt have been asked to identify any own up if there are any.   Nothing so far unless I've missed something - feel free to post if you have any evidence and I'll happily seethe if any Windrush person has been detained.

 

And accusing Shaun of hyperbole is not a "personal insult".  its a valid criticism of exaggeration which, as I pointed out in my first post on this subject, can be counter-productive.      

 

In this thread there have been the following claims -

 

Windrush people deported.    

Windrush people detained.

Homeless people unable to vote.

 

All three of these are not correct at the present time - all I do is point this out in challenge to posters who let their seethe cloud their interpretation of facts.  And in return I get the "You are a Tory" or "You believe the MSM" nonsense back.

 

You on the other hand believe a big load of shite about aliens, crop circles, and flying saucers.      So keep on trolling me if you like - but I claim that anyone who believes this was made by aliens in flying saucers is deluded.  Recognise it?

 

 

 

 

[deesidejambo]

11 hours ago, SwindonJambo said:

 

I agree. He couldn’t run a bath. I doubt he even wants the job. He’s got his dream job - leader of the opposition with an increased vote share. Corbyn is a protest leader. Criticises those who act when he’s never had to act himself. He’s never had a proper job in the real World. He’d shit himself if he won an election. 

Indeed that is a worry, but its not only Corbyn imo.  The Labour party as a whole maybe works better as an opposition force.  After all it is meant to focus on workers rights as a priority.  Thats what it was founded on.

 

Given that many people are now on low salaries and will, as things currently stand, never be able to afford to buy a house, Labour should rebalance their priorities back to that issue.       You'll guess where I'm coming from (Im a broken record on this issue}  we need to rebalance the whole taxation system more in favour of the poor.    Its out of balance now.

[Boris]

On 05/05/2018 at 17:54, shaun.lawson said:

 

Can you explain to me how, for example, homeless people will be able to identity themselves?

 

I guess it would be even difficult for them to be on the electoral roll in the first place!

[Sraman]

So we have evidence of electoral fraud and ID cards are the only way to stop it.

 

What a crock of shite.

 

The electoral role is the way to get a voter card and that is the ID card required to vote. Once it is used it cannot be used again. If there is an issue identified then use money to tweak the system to shore it up don't waste billions (that we don't have) on a totally different scheme that would only shift the fraud into another area.

 

The electoral fraud of using someone else's voter card is not worrying. The electoral fraud of CA, and the likes, is and we all know who they are and who they favour. Their type of electoral fraud wouldn't be impeded by the introduction of an ID card.

 

[maroonlegions]

19 minutes ago, Sraman said:

So we have evidence of electoral fraud and ID cards are the only way to stop it.

 

What a crock of shite.

 

The electoral role is the way to get a voter card and that is the ID card required to vote. Once it is used it cannot be used again. If there is an issue identified then use money to tweak the system to shore it up don't waste billions (that we don't have) on a totally different scheme that would only shift the fraud into another area.

 

The electoral fraud of using someone else's voter card is not worrying. The electoral fraud of CA, and the likes, is and we all know who they are and who they favour. Their type of electoral fraud wouldn't be impeded by the introduction of an ID card.

 

 

Talking about electoral fraud. Remember these below from the last general election.Seems its a closer look at some politicians that is needed.

 

 

Conservative candidate Craig Mackinlay charged over Tory election fraud investigation;

 

Tory MP fails to block police investigation into election fraud claim

 

Tories withheld key docs from election fraud probe, watchdog says

 

Tories moves to block police inquiry into alleged election fraud

 

 

Jon Snow finally gets chance to make Cameron squirm over Tory 'fraud'

 

 

Edited May 7, 2018 by maroonlegions

[maroonlegions]

The sheer blatant lies and spin emanating from this woman is staggering .

 

Totally  at odds with child poverty charities and the levels of actual poverty increases with those families  who are in work.

 

Out of touch with the real suffering cause by her narcissistic arrogance personality.

 

She has even now taken to write articles  in a newspaper to spin her deceit and lies .

 

 

 

 

Child poverty in working households up by a million since 2010;

Research for the TUC estimates that 3.1 million children with working parents will be below the official breadline this year.

 

ITV.COM

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SwindonJambo]

2 hours ago, Sraman said:

So we have evidence of electoral fraud and ID cards are the only way to stop it.

 

What a crock of shite.

 

The electoral role is the way to get a voter card and that is the ID card required to vote. Once it is used it cannot be used again. If there is an issue identified then use money to tweak the system to shore it up don't waste billions (that we don't have) on a totally different scheme that would only shift the fraud into another area.

 

The electoral fraud of using someone else's voter card is not worrying. The electoral fraud of CA, and the likes, is and we all know who they are and who they favour. Their type of electoral fraud wouldn't be impeded by the introduction of an ID card.

 

 

What would stop someone from using someone else’s polling card to vote? At the height of the troubles in NI in the 1980s strong allegations of Sinn Fein supporters extorting polling cards from voters and voting multiple times. There’s absolutely nothing rigid in place to stop this happening on the Mainland in tight marginals. Where I live you’re not even asked for your polling card! Just your name, it’s crossed off their list and they hand you a ballot paper. Flimsy as hell.

[Thunderstruck]

3 hours ago, Sraman said:

So we have evidence of electoral fraud and ID cards are the only way to stop it.

 

What a crock of shite.

 

The electoral role is the way to get a voter card and that is the ID card required to vote. Once it is used it cannot be used again. If there is an issue identified then use money to tweak the system to shore it up don't waste billions (that we don't have) on a totally different scheme that would only shift the fraud into another area.

 

The electoral fraud of using someone else's voter card is not worrying. The electoral fraud of CA, and the likes, is and we all know who they are and who they favour. Their type of electoral fraud wouldn't be impeded by the introduction of an ID card.

 

 

What evidence is there of Personation - the crime of voting as someone you are not? Very little.

 

There is a vulnerability, a risk but no evidence of meaningful levels of fraud. 

 

The link below is an Electoral Commission report on the subject.

 

http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0008/164609/Electoral-fraud-review-final-report.pdf

 

It identifies where there are significant levels of fraud (invariably with postal votes) and that the main group of fraudsters are those with South Asian roots. 

 

The report acknowledges postal vote fraud but recommends little change other than some tightening of rules on handling of forms and the formulation of Fraud Prevention Plans - something that is no deterrent to those willing to intimidate, coerce or mislead the vulnerable.

 

On the other hand, the report recommends the introduction of ID checking at Polling Stations to prevent something that is very rare. 

 

I am not against ID cards per se as photo ID is an increasingly regular part of our daily lives and, by all accounts, pose no problems in Northern Ireland. I would, although, prefer that time and effort was spent on areas where fraud or unwelcome involvement in the process are to be found. 

 

As for who might be misbehaving locally, have a look at where political parties suggest you return postal vote applications, postal ballots or any other application. If that is not the Registration Officer or Returning Officer, don’t send it to the suggested address. At the very least, you have no guarantee that they will forward correctly or in time. 

[deesidejambo]

4 hours ago, Sraman said:

So we have evidence of electoral fraud and ID cards are the only way to stop it.

 

What a crock of shite.

 

The electoral role is the way to get a voter card and that is the ID card required to vote. Once it is used it cannot be used again. If there is an issue identified then use money to tweak the system to shore it up don't waste billions (that we don't have) on a totally different scheme that would only shift the fraud into another area.

 

The electoral fraud of using someone else's voter card is not worrying. The electoral fraud of CA, and the likes, is and we all know who they are and who they favour. Their type of electoral fraud wouldn't be impeded by the introduction of an ID card.

 

Nobody is suggesting introducing a national ID card, simply asking people to identify themselves by means of Driving Licence or Passport at elections.    I dont see that as a big problem.

 

As to the claim this stops homeless people being able to vote - that is simply incorrect.    There are simple methods in place to solve this as evidenced in NI.

 

As for the electoral roll card - that is not required at the polling station - it helps to identify yourself but it is not a requirement.  Hence the problem.

 

As for personation - the only time it is spotted is if someone impersonates then the real person turns up later hence the problem gets spotted.     Where it doesn't is where people know others who are not voting.  They may be away on holidays, or imply choose not to vote.   Given the turnout at elections there are many people in this category.  Then its easy to impersonate them.      So what you do is identify people who are not voting then you can impersonate them - without the need for their card.  It is unknown how much of this happens, which is a major weakness in the current approach.

 

The system is simply not robust for modern times and asking for people to identify themselves is common across the world, including NI.

 

Note that, unlike what people on here infer, the people who are likely to suffer most are the elderly, i.e. mostly Tory voters, as they are the group most likely to have Driving Licence or Passport.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

There are a lot of people in the UK who do not have any photo ID whatsoever, this was highlighted a few years back when one partner could allocate 10% of their tax code to their spouse if they earned less than the tax threshold of £10,500 at the time.

To qualify you needed a passport and a photo ID driving licence, however they quickly found out (made front page news) that there were hundreds of thousands of people who had neither a passport or driving licence or had one but not the other, me being one of them, I have a passport but as I don't drive, I have no need for a driving licence far less a photo driving licence.

 

The point I'm making is, that, as was highlighted there are hundreds of thousands of British citizens, born and bred in the UK who have no photo ID to prove who they are, so they couldn't produce photo ID at the polling station if asked to do so.  Only some form of a national photo ID card scheme could sort this problem.

 

[shaun.lawson]

23 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

There are a lot of people in the UK who do not have any photo ID whatsoever, this was highlighted a few years back when one partner could allocate 10% of their tax code to their spouse if they earned less than the tax threshold of £10,500 at the time.

To qualify you needed a passport and a photo ID driving licence, however they quickly found out (made front page news) that there were hundreds of thousands of people who had neither a passport or driving licence or had one but not the other, me being one of them, I have a passport but as I don't drive, I have no need for a driving licence far less a photo driving licence.

 

The point I'm making is, that, as was highlighted there are hundreds of thousands of British citizens, born and bred in the UK who have no photo ID to prove who they are, so they couldn't produce photo ID at the polling station if asked to do so.  Only some form of a national photo ID card scheme could sort this problem.

 

 

Correct. Deeside, as usual, is being very very naive. 

[deesidejambo]

18 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

Correct. Deeside, as usual, is being very very naive. 

Wrong!         As in NI, they can simply get an electoral card.      There is a simple solution to this, whether you like it or not.

 

But if you dont agree this can be done, its the elderly who will suffer most, hence Tory voters, so you should be happy.

 

And I am "naive as usual" Shaun?    You are the one who claims Windrush people deported - wrong.    

 

You are the one who claims Windrush people detained - wrong.

 

You are the one claiming homeless people cant vote if they need to identify themselves - wrong.

 

You simply keep on making claims that are incorrect and, as I posted on my very first post on Windrush, you dilute your own credibility.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[shaun.lawson]

8 minutes ago, deesidejambo said:

Wrong!         As in NI, they can simply get an electoral card.      There is a simple solution to this, whether you like it or not.

 

But if you dont agree this can be done, its the elderly who will suffer most, hence Tory voters, so you should be happy.

 

And I am "naive as usual" Shaun?    You are the one who claims Windrush people deported - wrong.    

 

You are the one who claims Windrush people detained - wrong.

 

You are the one claiming homeless people cant vote if they need to identify themselves - wrong.

 

You simply keep on making claims that are incorrect and, as I posted on my very first post on Windrush, you dilute your own credibility.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I really do wonder what planet you live on at times.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/windrush-deportations-jamaica-charter-flight-immigration-detention-grandmother-a8328461.html

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/05/daughter-windrush-generation-risks-deportation-uk-180505200017250.html

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/nov/28/i-cant-eat-or-sleep-the-grandmother-threatened-with-deportation-after-50-years-in-britain

 

Read the articles. Read what these individuals have been put through. And don't you dare come back with any more bollocks about how "no-one has been detained".

 

Shameless stuff. 

 

[maroonlegions]

31 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

I really do wonder what planet you live on at times.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/windrush-deportations-jamaica-charter-flight-immigration-detention-grandmother-a8328461.html

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/05/daughter-windrush-generation-risks-deportation-uk-180505200017250.html

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/nov/28/i-cant-eat-or-sleep-the-grandmother-threatened-with-deportation-after-50-years-in-britain

 

Read the articles. Read what these individuals have been put through. And don't you dare come back with any more bollocks about how "no-one has been detained".

 

Shameless stuff. 

 

 

 Great post.

 

 

Windrush was not an insidious way to treat people because none were detained or deported.

 

He wont read the articles  though, as  ever thing is hunky dory in Dees world when it comes to this governments  policies .

 

Wont be long until he spouts out the governments rhetoric that poverty is just a case of bad life choices and not because of a sustained attack  by this government on the welfare system that was created to protect the most vulnerable .

 

Poverty figures are just lefty propaganda  according to Dee to,even though some leading charities have said  that such poverty figures are up  in not only child poverty  but also those in WORK who are in poverty or facing real hardships due  to wage stagnation.

 

This government are responsible for some insidious policies and lies.

 

I was going to post such links you have posted long ago on this thread but thought what is the point, its all just lefty propaganda.

 

 

 

Edited May 7, 2018 by maroonlegions

[deesidejambo]

40 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

I really do wonder what planet you live on at times.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/windrush-deportations-jamaica-charter-flight-immigration-detention-grandmother-a8328461.html

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/05/daughter-windrush-generation-risks-deportation-uk-180505200017250.html

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/nov/28/i-cant-eat-or-sleep-the-grandmother-threatened-with-deportation-after-50-years-in-britain

 

Read the articles. Read what these individuals have been put through. And don't you dare come back with any more bollocks about how "no-one has been detained".

 

Shameless stuff. 

 

Happy to stand corrected on the detained ladies.   And as I posted earlier they should be awarded damages.

 

Now on the other two points my post still stands.

 

2-1 to me?

[shaun.lawson]

2 minutes ago, deesidejambo said:

Happy to stand corrected on the detained ladies.   And as I posted earlier they should be awarded damages.

 

Now on the other two points my post still stands.

 

2-1 to me?

 

Nope. You're also living on another planet if you think no-one has been deported.

 

Pro tip: that's why the government won't tell us. 

[deesidejambo]

11 minutes ago, maroonlegions said:

 

 Great post.

 

 

Windrush was not an insidious way to treat people because none were detained or deported.

 

He wont read the articles  though, as  ever thing is hunky dory in Dees world when it comes to this governments  policies .

 

Wont be long until he spouts out the governments rhetoric that poverty is just a case of bad life choices and not because of a sustained attack  by this government on the welfare system that was created to protect the most vulnerable .

 

Poverty figures are just lefty propaganda  according to Dee to,even though some leading charities have said  that such poverty figures are up  in not only child poverty  but also those in WORK who are in poverty or facing real hardships due  to wage stagnation.

 

This government are responsible for some insidious policies and lies.

 

I was going to post such links you have posted long ago on this thread but thought what is the point, its all just lefty propaganda.

 

 

 

ML you keep on equating my arguments related to the facts with an inferred support for the Govt.

 

Wrong.

 

i have repeatedly posted from the start that this is a Govt shambles and those affected should be compensated.

 

But you seem to have missed those numerous posts.

 

Try reading my posts on this issue.

 

if you choose not to then put me on ignore and get back to your UFOs

[Victorian]

Lots of people lost their jobs,  houses,  savings,  pensions,   access to medical treatment,   driving licences,  ability to travel,  relationships with family.   Whole lives turned upside down.     No compensation can restore these peoples' lives.

 

But continue to defend the indefensible by going on about deportations and detentions.     No wonder the Tories can **** people up with impunity.

[deesidejambo]

9 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

Nope. You're also living on another planet if you think no-one has been deported.

 

Pro tip: that's why the government won't tell us. 

Show me the evidence.

 

You have made the claim so you back it up.

 

Happy to stand corrected once you show it.  You are a good CT.

[deesidejambo]

1 minute ago, Victorian said:

Lots of people lost their jobs,  houses,  savings,  pensions,   access to medical treatment,   driving licences,  ability to travel,  relationships with family.   Whole lives turned upside down.     No compensation can restore these peoples' lives.

 

But continue to defend the indefensible by going on about deportations and detentions.     No wonder the Tories can **** people up with impunity.

Show me where I defend it.

 

I am arguing about the facts and have repeatedly criticised the Govts for what they did.

 

So please show me where I support it. 

[shaun.lawson]

8 minutes ago, deesidejambo said:

Show me the evidence.

 

You have made the claim so you back it up.

 

Happy to stand corrected once you show it.  You are a good CT.

 

Deeside: "Show me the evidence!"

 

*Government covers up the evidence*

 

Deeside: "See, I'm right!"

 

  

 

Vic, meanwhile, is rightly concerned with the spirit of all this. The fundamentals of it. What it's done to so so many people's lives.

 

You're obsessed with the letter - and at no point does it even seem to occur to you that a government which presided over this disgrace for so long will, very obviously, have done worse than has been reported. Again: that's why they've covered it up.

[Sraman]

45 minutes ago, deesidejambo said:

Happy to stand corrected on the detained ladies.   And as I posted earlier they should be awarded damages.

 

Now on the other two points my post still stands.

 

2-1 to me?

 

More money that we haven't got.

 

It's simply as simple as that.

[Sraman]

3 hours ago, deesidejambo said:

Nobody is suggesting introducing a national ID card, simply asking people to identify themselves by means of Driving Licence or Passport at elections.    I dont see that as a big problem.

 

As to the claim this stops homeless people being able to vote - that is simply incorrect.    There are simple methods in place to solve this as evidenced in NI.

 

As for the electoral roll card - that is not required at the polling station - it helps to identify yourself but it is not a requirement.  Hence the problem.

 

As for personation - the only time it is spotted is if someone impersonates then the real person turns up later hence the problem gets spotted.     Where it doesn't is where people know others who are not voting.  They may be away on holidays, or imply choose not to vote.   Given the turnout at elections there are many people in this category.  Then its easy to impersonate them.      So what you do is identify people who are not voting then you can impersonate them - without the need for their card.  It is unknown how much of this happens, which is a major weakness in the current approach.

 

The system is simply not robust for modern times and asking for people to identify themselves is common across the world, including NI.

 

Note that, unlike what people on here infer, the people who are likely to suffer most are the elderly, i.e. mostly Tory voters, as they are the group most likely to have Driving Licence or Passport.

 

My driving license doesn't have a photo. My passport is expired. No vote for me, unless I pay for it, again. That's the desired affect though, isn't it? 

 

All of this nonsense when the solution is to insist on your polling card being shown. It's already there, it doesn't cost anyone any more than they already pay.

 

All of this nonsense because the Tories got caught with their pants down in their quest for global domination.

[deesidejambo]

21 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

Deeside: "Show me the evidence!"

 

*Government covers up the evidence*

 

Deeside: "See, I'm right!"

 

  

 

Vic, meanwhile, is rightly concerned with the spirit of all this. The fundamentals of it. What it's done to so so many people's lives.

 

You're obsessed with the letter - and at no point does it even seem to occur to you that a government which presided over this disgrace for so long will, very obviously, have done worse than has been reported. Again: that's why they've covered it up.

The truth will of course come out.

 

You are a CT.  You make an assumption that the Govt is hiding these people from the public.

 

You claim people are deported so I asked you to prove it.

 

But you and others turn my argument round to me being a Tory f***** prick who supported the Govt actions.      Show me the evidence to back upthat accusation 

[Space Mackerel]

Everyone’s a CT in deesides world when the facts stack up against him. 

[Cade]

The main issue is not that you may need ID to vote.

 

The main issue is that this ID is not automatic nor free to all citizens. A free national ID card would not be a problem.

 

Having to spend £70 on a passport will simply exclude some people from voting. Which is the plan all along.

[Space Mackerel]

Torys down. Peak Tory has hit its iron ceiling.

 

http://www.thenational.scot/news/15912860.Latest_poll_reveals_Scottish_Conservatives_set_to_LOSE_five_seats_to_the_SNP/?ref=twtrec

[deesidejambo]

24 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

Everyone’s a CT in deesides world when the facts stack up against him. 

What facts?    It’s the facts that I was asking to see, and what I got back was « The Govt is hiding them ».

 

Anyway at the very outset of this discussion onWndrush all I did was suggest to Shaun he was exaggerating both the data and the Govts intent, which he suggested was to deliberately target legal citizens for deportation.

 

I maintain. as I posted, that they got their policy mixed up between illegal migrants and legal citizens and as such screwed it all up.   Incompetence on a massive scale, driven by the hostile policy.

 

I also was consistent in saying those affected need to be recompensed and paid damages, in public so all can see.   No secret hush money.

 

But that won’t be accepted on here, so......

 

Spacey, over the years we have had a few paggers and a few laughs but not everything is a conspiracy you know.

 

Best wishes to all, even Aussie (wherever he is!).   I hope your dream of Indy lasts forever (geddit?).

 

And I8 - don’t forget to watch Eurovision.   Youlll love it.

 

Deeside signing out.

 

 

[Trapper John McIntyre]

1 hour ago, Space Mackerel said:

Torys down. Peak Tory has hit its iron ceiling.

 

http://www.thenational.scot/news/15912860.Latest_poll_reveals_Scottish_Conservatives_set_to_LOSE_five_seats_to_the_SNP/?ref=twtrec

 

The Nat Onal  

[shaun.lawson]

2 hours ago, Cade said:

The main issue is not that you may need ID to vote.

 

The main issue is that this ID is not automatic nor free to all citizens. A free national ID card would not be a problem.

 

Having to spend £70 on a passport will simply exclude some people from voting. Which is the plan all along.

 

Precisely. 

 

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2017/05/government-s-plan-voter-id-attack-labour-voters

[Space Mackerel]

19 hours ago, Trapper John McIntyre said:

 

The Nat Onal  

 

Eh?

 

From the actual article...

 

"The Survation analysis of 1,000 Scots was revealed in the Daily Record newspaper."

 

 

[shaun.lawson]

Utterly appalling.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/may/08/i-feel-like-im-drowning-healthcare-inspector-faces-deportation-by-home-office

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/may/06/at-least-1000-highly-skilled-migrants-wrongly-face-deportation-experts-reveal

[Victorian]

2 hours ago, shaun.lawson said:

Utterly appalling.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/may/08/i-feel-like-im-drowning-healthcare-inspector-faces-deportation-by-home-office

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/may/06/at-least-1000-highly-skilled-migrants-wrongly-face-deportation-experts-reveal

 

"My feeling is that since Theresa May’s announcement of a ‘hostile environment’ for immigrants, caseworkers have been told to look for discrepancies that could form the basis of an accusation the applicant is lying, because that’s the quickest way to dispose of an application.”

 

And that's what it's all about.     The treatment of people as numbers.    Commodities or currencies with which to fulfill targets or caseloads.     You could call it a systematic or cultural problem of a huge,  unweildy government department... but who most benefits from the perceived efficiency of the department?     The political masters.

[shaun.lawson]

3 minutes ago, Victorian said:

The treatment of people as numbers.    

 

Bingo. I think Theresa May has a really serious inability to view anyone foreign as a person. This is what leads to endemic, institutionalised scandals like this - regarding which, only the tip of the iceberg (Windrush) has been focused on. It's also what leads to 3m EU citizens being treated like her throughout the Brexit process not as people, but as political pawns.

[Victorian]

6 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

Bingo. I think Theresa May has a really serious inability to view anyone foreign as a person. This is what leads to endemic, institutionalised scandals like this - regarding which, only the tip of the iceberg (Windrush) has been focused on. It's also what leads to 3m EU citizens being treated like her throughout the Brexit process not as people, but as political pawns.

 

It's not even just the government,   although it is most certainly responsible for putting the pieces in place.     It's the result of the government's task & forget attitude.    Impose the conditions of a hostile environment and related targets and task the civil servants to perform the function.     Passing down the culture of a results driven agenda.     Everyone down the chain will treat people as numbers.    Possible successes to chalk up.   

Edited May 8, 2018 by Victorian

[shaun.lawson]

3 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

It's not even just the government,   although it is most certainly responsible for putting the pieces in place.     It's the result of the government's task & forget attitude.    Impose the conditions of a hostile environment and related targets and task the civil servants to perform the function.     Passing down the culture of a results driven agenda.     Everyone down the chain will treat people as numbers.    Possible successes to chalk up.   

 

Agree. But I also blame the British people. They've allowed this climate to develop; they've demanded a "hard line approach"; they've voted for it. And anyone who has is complicit.

 

The result is a Kafka-esque combination of wickedness and bureaucracy. 

[Victorian]

1 minute ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

Agree. But I also blame the British people. They've allowed this climate to develop; they've demanded a "hard line approach"; they've voted for it. And anyone who has is complicit.

 

The result is a Kafka-esque combination of wickedness and bureaucracy. 

 

Agreed,   but perhaps for some with a somewhat naive understanding that the government,   albeit hard on who should not be here,    would always do the right thing by those who should be here or who would contribute to the UK.

 

 

[Pans Jambo]

Says ot all that only 2 UKIP council seats were returned last week. The English dont need UKIP anymore with their soft right leaning policies. They now have the proper hard right Conservative party to satisfy their blood lust. 

Everything that UKIP stood for now resides within the Tories. 

[jambo lodge]

12 hours ago, Victorian said:

 

"My feeling is that since Theresa May’s announcement of a ‘hostile environment’ for immigrants, caseworkers have been told to look for discrepancies that could form the basis of an accusation the applicant is lying, because that’s the quickest way to dispose of an application.”

 

And that's what it's all about.     The treatment of people as numbers.    Commodities or currencies with which to fulfill targets or caseloads.     You could call it a systematic or cultural problem of a huge,  unweildy government department... but who most benefits from the perceived efficiency of the department?     The political masters.

Think it was Labour that first used the term " hostile environment".

[Boris]

16 hours ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

Agree. But I also blame the British people. They've allowed this climate to develop; they've demanded a "hard line approach"; they've voted for it. And anyone who has is complicit.

 

The result is a Kafka-esque combination of wickedness and bureaucracy. 

 

Scotland didn't.

[maroonlegions]

So £224 million cost to the tax payer by this totally incompetent PM.

 

She overseen this at the time she was in the Home Office.

 

Deemed unlawful.

Taxpayer hit with £224m bill over Theresa May's decision to cancel immigration computer system;

 

Home Office must pay out to Raytheon, the US company, after termination of a deal overseen by Theresa May, the Home Secretary, is ruled unlawful;

TELEGRAPH.CO.UK

 

 

[shaun.lawson]

1 hour ago, Boris said:

 

Scotland didn't.

 

Tory vote went up 14% in Scotland last year. Labour vote went up 10% in England last year.

 

Scotland finally had the left wing Labour Party its people had, supposedly, been crying out for for so long. And relegated it to 3rd place, below the Tories.

[maroonlegions]

FIVE years ago the Home Office was told about wrongly telling people to leave the UK, FIVE years ago.

 

 

Home Office told of Windrush errors five years ago, experts say

 

Immigration advisers began warning of people being wrongly told to leave UK in…

 

THEGUARDIAN.COM

 

 

 

[Boris]

1 hour ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

Tory vote went up 14% in Scotland last year. Labour vote went up 10% in England last year.

 

Scotland finally had the left wing Labour Party its people had, supposedly, been crying out for for so long. And relegated it to 3rd place, below the Tories.

Missing the point Shaun.