Ulysses Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 15 hours ago, Victorian said: It's just a pity that there was no title of 101 things to do with lettuce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manaliveits105 Posted April 28 Share Posted April 28 Ireland considers plans to send asylum seekers back to UK A little earlier this morning, Rishi Sunak told Sky News that the movement of migrants from Northern Ireland into the Republic of Ireland showed his Rwanda scheme was working as a deterrent. But the Irish government is to consider legislative proposals next week on returning asylum seekers back to the UK who have travelled across the land border. Justice minister Helen McEntee will also meet Home Secretary James Cleverly next week, after saying the number of migrants crossing the border was now "higher than 80%". "I'll have emergency legislation at cabinet this week to make sure that we can effectively return people to the UK," she told RTE. Ms McEntee added Brexit was responsible for the UK seeing an increase in people seeking asylum. A spokesman for Irish premier Simon Harris said he is "very clear about the importance of protecting the integrity" of Ireland's migration system. "Ireland has a rules-based system that must always be applied firmly and fairly. "In that context, the Taoiseach has asked the minister for justice to bring proposals to Cabinet next week to amend existing law regarding the designation of safe 'third countries' and allowing the return of inadmissible international protection applicants to the UK." Can we return ours to France then ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted April 28 Share Posted April 28 I understand that Ireland to UK is free movement. But how are the migrants getting to Northern Ireland? Through the tunnel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Striker Posted April 28 Share Posted April 28 6 hours ago, manaliveits105 said: Ireland considers plans to send asylum seekers back to UK Can we return ours to France then ? Not according to Call-me-Dave. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/david-cameron-brexit-lord-rwanda-france-b2534432.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlimOzturk Posted April 28 Share Posted April 28 1 minute ago, Lone Striker said: Not according to Call-me-Dave. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/david-cameron-brexit-lord-rwanda-france-b2534432.html Well then, Ireland can’t send them back here then. Simples. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Striker Posted April 28 Share Posted April 28 10 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said: Well then, Ireland can’t send them back here then. Simples. You'd think so, but the newspaper report suggests that Ireland believes there's some legislative change which they could introduce which would allow them to return the asylum seekers to the UK. Not sure if they mean Northern Ireland by that. Sounds quite complex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted April 28 Share Posted April 28 9 minutes ago, Lone Striker said: You'd think so, but the newspaper report suggests that Ireland believes there's some legislative change which they could introduce which would allow them to return the asylum seekers to the UK. Not sure if they mean Northern Ireland by that. Sounds quite complex. It's difficult to find any source documentation on this, because a lot of the immigration control arrangements in the Common Travel Area between the UK and Ireland have traditionally been done on the basis of informal and semi-formal co-operation. But the logic seems to be that under the Common Travel Area rules, each country is committed to preventing people from outside the CTA from using the open borders to get into the other country. Where that fails, the other country can stop a person from entering or else send them back. However, as domestic Irish law is currently written, if we don't stop someone at the point of entry from the UK, our only legal remedy is to imprison them. So the barrier to us sending someone back to the UK isn't in UK law, but in our own law. I'm saying that because that's how someone explained it to me, but I must admit I haven't seen any original sources, as they're not at all easy to find. On a separate note, there are quite a few people living in NI who are entitled to live there, or indeed anywhere in the UK, but who have no legal right to cross the border into the South without visas - and people living in the South who can't cross into NI. That's because the CTA only applies to citizens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxteth O'Grady Posted April 28 Share Posted April 28 7 hours ago, manaliveits105 said: Ireland considers plans to send asylum seekers back to UK A little earlier this morning, Rishi Sunak told Sky News that the movement of migrants from Northern Ireland into the Republic of Ireland showed his Rwanda scheme was working as a deterrent. But the Irish government is to consider legislative proposals next week on returning asylum seekers back to the UK who have travelled across the land border. Justice minister Helen McEntee will also meet Home Secretary James Cleverly next week, after saying the number of migrants crossing the border was now "higher than 80%". "I'll have emergency legislation at cabinet this week to make sure that we can effectively return people to the UK," she told RTE. Ms McEntee added Brexit was responsible for the UK seeing an increase in people seeking asylum. A spokesman for Irish premier Simon Harris said he is "very clear about the importance of protecting the integrity" of Ireland's migration system. "Ireland has a rules-based system that must always be applied firmly and fairly. "In that context, the Taoiseach has asked the minister for justice to bring proposals to Cabinet next week to amend existing law regarding the designation of safe 'third countries' and allowing the return of inadmissible international protection applicants to the UK." Can we return ours to France then ? Not having a controlled border was never going to work in the long term for Ireland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted April 28 Share Posted April 28 You'd think there was an election Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Striker Posted April 28 Share Posted April 28 55 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said: You'd think there was an election Local council & London mayor elections in England next week. Got to have some "good news" headlines for the brain-dead voters. 😏 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted April 28 Share Posted April 28 It's a potentially disastrous move causing untold damage. People disappearing to avoid detention for example. On the mistaken view the public will support the most horrid acts on the most vulnerable people. And not taking account that nothing Sunak has done in a year and a half has worked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted April 28 Share Posted April 28 Just the 500 arrivals on 10 boats over the last two days. Now, how many people are Rwanda expecting to accommodate? https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/migrants-detected-crossing-the-english-channel-in-small-boats/migrants-detected-crossing-the-english-channel-in-small-boats-last-7-days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted April 28 Share Posted April 28 (edited) 2 hours ago, Ulysses said: It's difficult to find any source documentation on this, because a lot of the immigration control arrangements in the Common Travel Area between the UK and Ireland have traditionally been done on the basis of informal and semi-formal co-operation. But the logic seems to be that under the Common Travel Area rules, each country is committed to preventing people from outside the CTA from using the open borders to get into the other country. Where that fails, the other country can stop a person from entering or else send them back. However, as domestic Irish law is currently written, if we don't stop someone at the point of entry from the UK, our only legal remedy is to imprison them. So the barrier to us sending someone back to the UK isn't in UK law, but in our own law. I'm saying that because that's how someone explained it to me, but I must admit I haven't seen any original sources, as they're not at all easy to find. On a separate note, there are quite a few people living in NI who are entitled to live there, or indeed anywhere in the UK, but who have no legal right to cross the border into the South without visas - and people living in the South who can't cross into NI. That's because the CTA only applies to citizens. Given that it is an open border, is there anything to stop the Irish government from loading asylum seekers onto a bus and dropping them off anywhere in Northern Ireland, or elsewhere in the UK for that matter, with a warning that they will be imprisoned if they return? Edited April 28 by Footballfirst Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XB52 Posted April 28 Share Posted April 28 2 hours ago, Mikey1874 said: You'd think there was an election That is actually scary that they can be so bereft of any humanity and so cynical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Thor Posted April 28 Share Posted April 28 23 minutes ago, Footballfirst said: Just the 500 arrivals on 10 boats over the last two days. Now, how many people are Rwanda expecting to accommodate? https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/migrants-detected-crossing-the-english-channel-in-small-boats/migrants-detected-crossing-the-english-channel-in-small-boats-last-7-days I believe the number is 200 a year. Or 0.7% of those that arrived in small boats in 2023. 1.8 million quid a skull. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Striker Posted April 28 Share Posted April 28 Even if a few planes takes off for Rwanda with 200 asylum seekers on board, its not inconceivable that one/some/many of them will contact the Refugee Council or other support charities with access to lawyers to tell them that they're being harassed/assaulted/robbed by local gangs - and therefore Rwanda is not a "safe country" for them. Maybe the Rwanda Bill gives some insight into this, but it seems to me that a lot is riding on the definition of "safe country" from the asylum seekers viewpoint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted April 28 Share Posted April 28 43 minutes ago, Footballfirst said: Given that it is an open border, is there anything to stop the Irish government from loading asylum seekers onto a bus and dropping them off anywhere in Northern Ireland, or elsewhere in the UK for that matter, with a warning that they will be imprisoned if they return? Leaving aside any other consideration, we don't have the prison spaces, so it'd be a hollow threat. AFAIK, the problem seems to be something of a loophole, whereby Irish law doesn't let us deport people to the UK. But that's AFAIK. Ireland and the UK have a funny relationship as regards immigration control, and that's been the case since 1922. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughesie27 Posted April 28 Share Posted April 28 See the people traffickers that come over on the boats, where do they end up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted April 28 Share Posted April 28 4 hours ago, Mikey1874 said: You'd think there was an election Similarly, there are local and European elections coming up here, and a general election expected within months, and we have a new Taoiseach who wants to revitalise his party's popularity. So even if Ireland's idea of deportation legislation wouldn't work, it's a bit of an electoral gift for him to be able to pass it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Striker Posted April 28 Share Posted April 28 1 hour ago, hughesie27 said: See the people traffickers that come over on the boats, where do they end up? I don't think any of the people traffickers are on the boats. Its only the migrants. The criminals supply the inflatable boat and outboard motor, and a low-ranking criminal overloads it with migrants on the French shore and waves it goodbye. Occasionally the French police manage to arrest one of these low-ranking criminals - no idea if anything comes of it though. We like to trash the Tory attempts to deter these crossings and how they try to process asylum claims, but tbf I'm not aware of any country that has a "gold standard" procedure for dealing humanely and fairly with these sort of numbers of "illegal" migrants from Africa/Asia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorldChampions1902 Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 10 hours ago, Lone Striker said: Occasionally the French police manage to arrest one of these low-ranking criminals - no idea if anything comes of it though. It sounds like we are getting great value for money in respect of the £500m we are now paying France to “stop the boats”. Factor in the near £2m per person to punt them on to Rwanda when they get here, this scheme is mere petty cash in comparison to that other great ‘heist’, the Tory PPE scandal. The sooner this Junta gets emptied, the better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 18 minutes ago, WorldChampions1902 said: It sounds like we are getting great value for money in respect of the £500m we are now paying France to “stop the boats”. Factor in the near £2m per person to punt them on to Rwanda when they get here, this scheme is mere petty cash in comparison to that other great ‘heist’, the Tory PPE scandal. The sooner this Junta gets emptied, the better. Value for money is the watchword Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 24 minutes ago, Jim_Duncan said: The coast. 👏👏 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gundermann Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 Tories have lost the immigrants they want to deport? Shurely not... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68924392 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boab Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 We’re going to deport them…erm…once we know where they are ! 🫣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 Lost more people as they can't deport most of the boat people because of concessions they had to make to pass the Illegal Migration Act (the one before the Rwanda Act). They can't assess these people to grant refugee status or remove them as law says they can't apply. And as they can't remove them they have to pay accommodation costs indefinitely. Around 100,000 people. Taking back control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Thor Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 They've lost 3,500 Asylum seekers or roughly about 17 years worth of Rwanda deportations. Meanwhile the Gov.UK figures for the last week show another 5 years worth arriving in the UK on small boats Date Migrants detected Boats detected Boats involved in uncontrolled landings Notes 23 April 2024 402 7 0 24 April 2024 0 0 0 25 April 2024 0 0 0 26 April 2024 141 2 0 27 April 2024 359 8 0 28 April 2024 0 0 0 29 April 2024 132 3 0 what a cluster**** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorldChampions1902 Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 6 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said: They've lost 3,500 Asylum seekers or roughly about 17 years worth of Rwanda deportations. Meanwhile the Gov.UK figures for the last week show another 5 years worth arriving in the UK on small boats Date Migrants detected Boats detected Boats involved in uncontrolled landings Notes 23 April 2024 402 7 0 24 April 2024 0 0 0 25 April 2024 0 0 0 26 April 2024 141 2 0 27 April 2024 359 8 0 28 April 2024 0 0 0 29 April 2024 132 3 0 what a cluster**** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 Ouch. Ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/apr/30/rishi-sunak-lead-tories-local-elections-regicide-as-usual?CMP=share_btn_url Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gundermann Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 More UK red tape. Higher food bills. You sock it to those foreigners, Brexit Britain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorldChampions1902 Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 ITV News now reporting that one, yes one person has now been deported to Rwanda tonight. If that’s one person on one jet liner that we’re paying for, that’s a helluva air fare. Oh, it’s also being reported that the person “went voluntarily, for which they have been paid”! I think the £2million cost per immigrant needs to revised - upwards! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horatio Caine Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 11 minutes ago, WorldChampions1902 said: ITV News now reporting that one, yes one person has now been deported to Rwanda tonight. If that’s one person on one jet liner that we’re paying for, that’s a helluva air fare. Oh, it’s also being reported that the person “went voluntarily, for which they have been paid”! I think the £2million cost per immigrant needs to revised - upwards! Was said it was a commercial flight the person was on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorldChampions1902 Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 12 minutes ago, Horatio Caine said: Was said it was a commercial flight the person was on. Cool. Any idea when we receive one immigrant from Rwanda under the ‘exchange’ clause in the agreement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 Congratulations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 31 minutes ago, WorldChampions1902 said: ITV News now reporting that one, yes one person has now been deported to Rwanda tonight. If that’s one person on one jet liner that we’re paying for, that’s a helluva air fare. Oh, it’s also being reported that the person “went voluntarily, for which they have been paid”! I think the £2million cost per immigrant needs to revised - upwards! £3000. New scheme introduced a few weeks ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooter McGavin Posted May 1 Share Posted May 1 19 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said: They've lost 3,500 Asylum seekers or roughly about 17 years worth of Rwanda deportations. Meanwhile the Gov.UK figures for the last week show another 5 years worth arriving in the UK on small boats Date Migrants detected Boats detected Boats involved in uncontrolled landings Notes 23 April 2024 402 7 0 24 April 2024 0 0 0 25 April 2024 0 0 0 26 April 2024 141 2 0 27 April 2024 359 8 0 28 April 2024 0 0 0 29 April 2024 132 3 0 what a cluster**** Piss up in a brewery comes to mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted May 1 Share Posted May 1 12 hours ago, Mikey1874 said: £3000. New scheme introduced a few weeks ago. £3,000 is a lot cheaper than accommodating people, to be fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooter McGavin Posted May 1 Share Posted May 1 Life expectancy going backwards, in 2024… Good Ol’ Blighty eh 🇬🇧 https://news.sky.com/story/poorer-people-dying-increasingly-younger-than-richer-people-as-dismal-life-expectancy-gap-grows-report-finds-13126243 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted May 1 Share Posted May 1 1 hour ago, Ulysses said: £3,000 is a lot cheaper than accommodating people, to be fair. I'm sure I read that we are paying their rent and living costs in Rwanda too. C. £2m per person over all. 😮 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted May 1 Share Posted May 1 22 minutes ago, Shooter McGavin said: Life expectancy going backwards, in 2024… Good Ol’ Blighty eh 🇬🇧 https://news.sky.com/story/poorer-people-dying-increasingly-younger-than-richer-people-as-dismal-life-expectancy-gap-grows-report-finds-13126243 Not surprised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joondalupjambo Posted May 1 Share Posted May 1 (edited) No, the first asylum seeker who arrived in Rwanda was not ‘deported’ Earlier we heard from Conservative MP Jonathan Gullis, who claimed during PMQs that: "We can see the Rwanda deterrent is working and we've now deported our first illegal migrant." The Tory MP was talking about reports that the first UK failed asylum seeker had arrived in the east African nation earlier this week. Deportation is a type of return that is enforced by the government. This usually happens after a person has been convicted of a crime or when their removal is judged to be in the public interest. But the unnamed man in the reports arrived in Rwanda through a voluntary government scheme, which offers some failed asylum seekers up to £3,000 to relocate there from the UK. It is separate from the government's main Rwanda scheme, which aims to forcibly remove some migrants from the UK. The voluntary scheme is a variation of an existing voluntary returns scheme, where failed asylum seekers receive cash to return to their home country. Is that not Gullis lying to the House during PMQ's? A very serious offence. Edited May 1 by joondalupjambo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Japan Jambo Posted May 1 Share Posted May 1 20 hours ago, Ulysses said: Ouch. Ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/apr/30/rishi-sunak-lead-tories-local-elections-regicide-as-usual?CMP=share_btn_url Well that was fun, thanks for sharing. I've clipped a bit; "Honestly, I find it somewhat watchable. At some level you have to simply respect the trick of Penny Mordaunt – an unbelievable lightweight disguised as some kind of serious figure who is now regularly linked with the top job because she silently held a thing still for an hour at the coronation. Genuinely this is the sort of competition they run in suburban shopping malls around the world, and one that would typically win you a month’s supply of contaminated protein powder, not the chance to be prime minister of a country that is somehow still the world’s sixth-largest economy. But our evident keenness to slip further down the top 10 cannot be disputed. Live by the ceremonial sword, die by the ceremonial sword." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gundermann Posted May 1 Share Posted May 1 32 minutes ago, joondalupjambo said: No, the first asylum seeker who arrived in Rwanda was not ‘deported’ Earlier we heard from Conservative MP Jonathan Gullis, who claimed during PMQs that: "We can see the Rwanda deterrent is working and we've now deported our first illegal migrant." The Tory MP was talking about reports that the first UK failed asylum seeker had arrived in the east African nation earlier this week. Deportation is a type of return that is enforced by the government. This usually happens after a person has been convicted of a crime or when their removal is judged to be in the public interest. But the unnamed man in the reports arrived in Rwanda through a voluntary government scheme, which offers some failed asylum seekers up to £3,000 to relocate there from the UK. It is separate from the government's main Rwanda scheme, which aims to forcibly remove some migrants from the UK. The voluntary scheme is a variation of an existing voluntary returns scheme, where failed asylum seekers receive cash to return to their home country. Is that not Gullis lying to the House during PMQ's? A very serious offence. Guillis makes 30p Lee look like Noam Chomsky or Richard Dawkins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted May 1 Share Posted May 1 Yeah. An example of the complexity of the immigration system. Free bed and board and £3000 for a holiday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted May 1 Share Posted May 1 (edited) Guy that got paid £3,000 to go to Rwanda was Rwandan. His asylum application had been refused and he was due to be returned to Rwanda in a few month's time anyways. So, of course he took the three grand to go home a wee bit early. He's also getting free bed&board for the next 5 years. Oh, and the UK granted another 6 Rwandans asylum from Rwanda the same day. The Tories are laughably desperate. Edited May 1 by Cade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the posh bit Posted May 1 Share Posted May 1 9 minutes ago, Cade said: Guy that got paid £3,000 to go to Rwanda was Rwandan. His asylum application had been refused and he was due to be returned to Rwanda in a few month's time anyways. So, of course he took the three grand to go home a wee bit early. He's also getting free bed&board for the next 5 years. Oh, and the UK granted another 6 Rwandans asylum from Rwanda the same day. The Tories are laughably desperate. Please be true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted May 1 Share Posted May 1 Not even in court yet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorldChampions1902 Posted May 1 Share Posted May 1 1 hour ago, Cade said: Guy that got paid £3,000 to go to Rwanda was Rwandan. His asylum application had been refused and he was due to be returned to Rwanda in a few month's time anyways. So, of course he took the three grand to go home a wee bit early. He's also getting free bed&board for the next 5 years. Oh, and the UK granted another 6 Rwandans asylum from Rwanda the same day. The Tories are laughably desperate. Christ on a bike. One out and six in! Braw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Thor Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 8 hours ago, Mikey1874 said: Not even in court yet 😂 Woke lefty blob 😂😂😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.