More Tory lies

[shaun.lawson]

2 minutes ago, Boris said:

Missing the point Shaun. 

 

Why? Was what I said about the most recent election not true?

 

Also, if the Scottish people had been truly disgusted by the appalling rhetoric and policy of the British government, they could've voted to leave the UK. They didn't. They stayed in. 

[Boris]

2 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

Why? Was what I said about the most recent election not true?

 

Also, if the Scottish people had been truly disgusted by the appalling rhetoric and policy of the British government, they could've voted to leave the UK. They didn't. They stayed in. 

Scotland rejected the tories at the last GE. Scotland voted to remain in the EU. 

 

How exactly is that an endorsement of this government? 

[shaun.lawson]

2 minutes ago, Boris said:

Scotland rejected the tories at the last GE. Scotland voted to remain in the EU. 

 

How exactly is that an endorsement of this government? 

 

What, exactly, is the point of voting for SNP MPs at Westminster when the SNP cannot form the government in Westminster?

 

Meanwhile, after the first 2 years of the Tories governing by themselves since 1997, the Tory vote in Scotland shot up, and the most left-wing Labour offering since 1983 was relegated to 3rd place.

Edited May 9, 2018 by shaun.lawson

[Sraman]

4 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

What, exactly, is the point of voting for SNP MPs at Westminster when the SNP cannot form the government in Westminster?

 

Meanwhile, after the first 2 years of the Tories governing by themselves since 1997, the Tory vote in Scotland shot up, and the most left-wing Labour offering since 1983 was relegated to 3rd place.

 

To show how truly disgusted we are with Westminster?

[shaun.lawson]

Just now, Sraman said:

 

To show how truly disgusted we are with Westminster?

 

Are you truly disgusted with Labour? 

[Sraman]

1 minute ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

Are you truly disgusted with Labour? 

 

Yes.

 

One swallow.....

 

To give you an idea of what we have to endure: The face of Scottish Labour was Kezia "Don't back Corbyn" Dugdale. When she stepped aside she was replaced by some guy who doesn't know what he's talking about. He's that irrelevant I can't even remember his name.

 

The Labour party are still chock full of Blairites. Corbyn won't be able to achieve much until that changes.

[Boris]

9 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

What, exactly, is the point of voting for SNP MPs at Westminster when the SNP cannot form the government in Westminster?

 

Meanwhile, after the first 2 years of the Tories governing by themselves since 1997, the Tory vote in Scotland shot up, and the most left-wing Labour offering since 1983 was relegated to 3rd place.

 

Thats not the issue Shaun. Point is you talk of Britain, and I'm saying one quarter of that union rejected what you are calling "British". 

[shaun.lawson]

Just now, Sraman said:

 

Yes.

 

One swallow.....

 

To give you an idea of what we have to endure: The face of Scottish Labour was Kezia "Don't back Corbyn" Dugdale. When she stepped aside she was replaced by some guy who doesn't know what he's talking about. He's that irrelevant I can't even remember his name.

 

The Labour party are still chock full of Blairites. Corbyn won't be able to achieve much until that changes.

 

Is that "guy who doesn't know what he's talking about" a Blairite? No, he's a Corbynista. Do the Blairites still have real power within the Labour Party? No, the membership is Corbynista. What was the British public asked to vote on at the election? The Labour manifesto. Did you have any issues with that manifesto? Did you think that manifesto - the Labour Party platform - was Blairite?

[Sraman]

3 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

Is that "guy who doesn't know what he's talking about" a Blairite? No, he's a Corbynista. Do the Blairites still have real power within the Labour Party? No, the membership is Corbynista. What was the British public asked to vote on at the election? The Labour manifesto. Did you have any issues with that manifesto? Did you think that manifesto - the Labour Party platform - was Blairite?

 

 

So what? He could be anything he likes but if he talks nonsense he becomes a nonentity and nobody's going to vote for him.

 

Manifesto. Ha ha. We promise to do this, we promise to do that. Hasn't worked all that well for any Govt in my time so far.

[shaun.lawson]

Just now, Sraman said:

 

 

So what? He could be anything he likes but if he talks nonsense he becomes a nonentity and nobody's going to vote for him.

 

Manifesto. Ha ha. We promise to do this, we promise to do that. Hasn't worked all that well for any Govt in my time so far.

 

Oh I see. So it's Corbyn's fault that New Labour, which he, McDonnell and Abbott all opposed throughout, wasn't what so many Scots wanted it to be? 

 

I quite liked Dugdale btw. And her "vote Labour, don't vote Corbyn" stuff was based on the small matter of Labour being 20 points behind in the polls.

[Sraman]

6 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

Oh I see. So it's Corbyn's fault that New Labour, which he, McDonnell and Abbott all opposed throughout, wasn't what so many Scots wanted it to be? 

 

I quite liked Dugdale btw. And her "vote Labour, don't vote Corbyn" stuff was based on the small matter of Labour being 20 points behind in the polls.

 

For a man who likes his history, you're not going back far enough. Dugdale came out in opposition to Corbyn as soon as his name was mentioned in the leadership battle. Labour's near 40 year swing to the right will take a bit more than one decent minded leader for the tide to change. Once it changes it still needs time to return to shore. I hope this eventually comes to pass in England and Wales. Scotland? Well, when you lot eventually realise that Westminster isn't all it's cracked up to be, Scotland will be first in line to back your re-introduction to the rest of the World.

[XB52]

2 hours ago, Boris said:

Scotland rejected the tories at the last GE. Scotland voted to remain in the EU. 

 

How exactly is that an endorsement of this government? 

You can't argue with him. You give an answer showing he was wrong and he just changes the argument. 

[shaun.lawson]

3 hours ago, Sraman said:

when you lot eventually realise that Westminster isn't all it's cracked up to be

 

We know. That's a large part of why Brexit happened. 

 

Dissatisfaction with the status quo isn't just a Scottish thing. It's a throughout the West thing, which has resulted in various forms of populism benefiting instead. Trump in the US, Brexit and Corbyn in the UK, the SNP in Scotland. Identity politics basically.

 

And the thing about identity politics is: emotions and feelings are more important than reason - so despite no logical reason to vote for the SNP at Westminster (where they have no power, can't do anything, but voting SNP rather than for a Labour candidate might let a Tory in instead), plenty carried on voting for them regardless.

 

Incidentally, on the manifesto point we discussed above: you do realise that New Labour mostly fulfilled their manifesto pledges? For some reason which entirely escapes me, in 1997, plenty of people persuaded themselves that Labour were something they never claimed to be. Now, when they're completely different, the Scottish people give them the thumbs down.

Edited May 9, 2018 by shaun.lawson

[Sraman]

2 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

We know. That's a large part of why Brexit happened. 

 

Dissatisfaction with the status quo isn't just a Scottish thing. It's a throughout the West thing, which has resulted in various forms of populism benefiting instead. Trump in the US, Brexit and Corbyn in the UK, the SNP in Scotland. Identity politics basically.

 

And the thing about identity politics is: emotions and feelings are more important than reason - so despite no logical reason to vote for the SNP at Westminster (where they have no power, can't do anything, but voting SNP rather than Labour candidate might let a Tory in instead), plenty carried on voting for them regardless.

 

Incidentally, on the manifesto point we discussed above: you do realise that New Labour mostly fulfilled their manifesto pledges? For some reason which entirely escapes me, in 1997, plenty of people persuaded themselves that Labour were something they never claimed to be. 

 

 

Your first line has to be a joke. Brexit was voted for because England believes Westminster leads the world in politics as well as Rule Britannia Ya Bass.

 

It isn't just a Scottish thing. There are lots of people in similar situations. Trumps America and Corbyn's UK are not in any way included in that list. They are the exact opposite, a mirror image. When we walk out to greet and embrace our neighbours that lot are walking away.

 

In 1997 they weren't something they claimed to be. They haven't been for nigh on 40 years. And we're back where we started.

 

 

 

Anyway. Tory lies. I don't believe there have been many today, definitely no answers right enough but that's nothing new.

[Sharpie]

Just out of interest I checked what my house at 21 Clerwood Loan would be worth today, the house next door sold for 275,000 pounds,  I paid Wimpey something like 2800 in 1964, sold it for a small profit in 1967, I think my salary when I bought it was just under 1,000pounds a week, but was paid twice a year rent money as an alternative to a police supplied house.  When I read the posts on here by comparison I did have it good and still not as good as some.

[Justin Z]

16 hours ago, shaun.lawson said:

Incidentally, on the manifesto point we discussed above: you do realise that New Labour mostly fulfilled their manifesto pledges? For some reason which entirely escapes me, in 1997, plenty of people persuaded themselves that Labour were something they never claimed to be. Now, when they're completely different, the Scottish people give them the thumbs down.

Except in Scotland, they're not. In Scotland, Labour is unabashedly New Labour.

 

 

Here they are getting Keir Hardie's name wrong. As my mate here put it, " #wevechangedhonest #socialistvalues  Actually proving beyond doubt that he's just a name they throw out when they're pretending that they're not the party that waved through Tory austerity, has no position on Brexit, started selling off our schools and hospitals, and took us to Iraq.

 

"When you openly say you would rather have a Tory government than independence, you've forfeited your right to any ideological position on the left. Your care for people is secondary to a piece of cloth."

 

You really lack perspective here, Shaun. Massively. The only areas of the UK where Labour members backed Smith over Corbyn were in Scotland. The type of people who back Corbyn in England and Wales are all in the SNP or the Greens in Scotland. It's not the same party here, and it has nothing to do with identity politics, it has to do with who best represents people's values. The SNP do so less imperfectly than Labour--by far.

[Boris]

14 hours ago, bobsharp said:

Just out of interest I checked what my house at 21 Clerwood Loan would be worth today, the house next door sold for 275,000 pounds,  I paid Wimpey something like 2800 in 1964, sold it for a small profit in 1967, I think my salary when I bought it was just under 1,000pounds a week, but was paid twice a year rent money as an alternative to a police supplied house.  When I read the posts on here by comparison I did have it good and still not as good as some.

 

Bob, is that a typo?  A salary of £52000 p.a. in 1964 is not far off current footballer wages!

[Justin Z]

2 minutes ago, Boris said:

Bob, is that a typo?  A salary of £52000 p.a. in 1964 is not far off current footballer wages!

Now it all becomes clear how the UK racked up this massive debt

[Boris]

16 hours ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

We know. That's a large part of why Brexit happened. 

 

Dissatisfaction with the status quo isn't just a Scottish thing. It's a throughout the West thing, which has resulted in various forms of populism benefiting instead. Trump in the US, Brexit and Corbyn in the UK, the SNP in Scotland. Identity politics basically.

 

And the thing about identity politics is: emotions and feelings are more important than reason - so despite no logical reason to vote for the SNP at Westminster (where they have no power, can't do anything, but voting SNP rather than for a Labour candidate might let a Tory in instead), plenty carried on voting for them regardless.

 

Incidentally, on the manifesto point we discussed above: you do realise that New Labour mostly fulfilled their manifesto pledges? For some reason which entirely escapes me, in 1997, plenty of people persuaded themselves that Labour were something they never claimed to be. Now, when they're completely different, the Scottish people give them the thumbs down.

 

Jeez...

 

What about Labour voters who voted Tory to get the SNP out as they are seen as the enemy here?  Or why not turn that around and ask why Labour voters didn't vote SNP to keep the Tories out?

 

This theme isn't to dissimilar to that conversation we were having earlier in this thread.  The one you bailed from...

[Sharpie]

2 hours ago, Boris said:

 

Bob, is that a typo?  A salary of £52000 p.a. in 1964 is not far off current footballer wages!

 

I noticed that last night hoped nobody else did. Quite a mistake if I had been making that much then I would still be in Edinburgh probably the owner of Hearts.I think that was closer to annual., but you got to give me  if I was going to be wrong or tell porkies I made it worth while.

[Boris]

7 minutes ago, bobsharp said:

 

I noticed that last night hoped nobody else did. Quite a mistake if I had been making that much then I would still be in Edinburgh probably the owner of Hearts.I think that was closer to annual., but you got to give me  if I was going to be wrong or tell porkies I made it worth while.

 

Hahaha.  Bob, if you were earning all that then i'm sure you earned every penny of it!

 

Wasn't meaning to point a finger at you, as that anecdote was very interesting. 

 

My folks got their first flat on Slateford Road, the block on Slateford Road that meets Ashley Terrace, just opposite the brewery, for I think £1000 in 1963.

[Space Mackerel]

I’m sure JC will be ****** a hoop at this news now.

 

 

[JamboX2]

On 10/05/2018 at 11:58, Justin Z said:

Except in Scotland, they're not. In Scotland, Labour is unabashedly New Labour.

 

 

Here they are getting Keir Hardie's name wrong. As my mate here put it, " #wevechangedhonest #socialistvalues  Actually proving beyond doubt that he's just a name they throw out when they're pretending that they're not the party that waved through Tory austerity, has no position on Brexit, started selling off our schools and hospitals, and took us to Iraq.

 

"When you openly say you would rather have a Tory government than independence, you've forfeited your right to any ideological position on the left. Your care for people is secondary to a piece of cloth."

 

You really lack perspective here, Shaun. Massively. The only areas of the UK where Labour members backed Smith over Corbyn were in Scotland. The type of people who back Corbyn in England and Wales are all in the SNP or the Greens in Scotland. It's not the same party here, and it has nothing to do with identity politics, it has to do with who best represents people's values. The SNP do so less imperfectly than Labour--by far.

 

A typo at a conference proves little.

 

Leonard is a very left wing leader - Scottish Labour's most left wing in fact. He's been a writer for Red Paper Collective for years. Active in the Trade Unions for years more. His manifesto for leader went further than Corbyn in some areas - on blacklisting, enquiries into Scottish police actions in the strikes of the 80s and on issues around housing.

 

Smith was considerably lefty too. But Scottish Labour is more pro-EU as was Smith. Hence his win up here.

 

On your bit in bold - that's a bit of a sweeping generalisation. There are people in the SNP who would be more likely to be Tories and Liberals else where as much as they would Corbyn's Labour. Such is it's broad church manner. I mean cuts to corporation tax, no movement for 10 years on bus regulation and a council tax freeze which benefits the wealthiest most and opposition to a property tax is hardly Corbynism.

 

As for your quote - as an ex-member - I would argue the counter. Those who are happy to back Salmond-economics and back that vision of independence are opting for peice of blue and white cloth over the welfare of others. Labour from birth has believed in Union. It's the core of the party's own ideas of what solidarity and common cause are. Home Rule was never independence. It is about interdependence and solidarity. It is very much to the party's shame that they never articulated this well in the referendum campaign.

Edited May 12, 2018 by JamboX2

[JamboX2]

33 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

I’m sure JC will be ****** a hoop at this news now.

 

 

 

A fake account. But the SNP survived in office at local and national level on Tory votes and votes with the Tories often to this day at Holyrood. Let's not try make out this is a one way street Cosmic.

[Sawdust Caesar]

On ‎09‎/‎05‎/‎2018 at 21:40, bobsharp said:

Just out of interest I checked what my house at 21 Clerwood Loan would be worth today, the house next door sold for 275,000 pounds,  I paid Wimpey something like 2800 in 1964, sold it for a small profit in 1967, I think my salary when I bought it was just under 1,000pounds a week, but was paid twice a year rent money as an alternative to a police supplied house.  When I read the posts on here by comparison I did have it good and still not as good as some.

My mum bought her house in Pilrig in 1969 for £5,000 and sold it in 2011 for £340,000. I don't know what her salary was though.

 

I bought my flat just off Leith Walk in 1994 for £35,000. I put down a deposit of £3,000 and was earning £13,000 at the time so my mortgage was less than 3 times my salary. My flat was valued, 2 months ago, at £120,000 which if I was to buy now I would have to have to have a mortgage of 6 times my salary, which is £20,000. I got lucky I bought that flat a few years before the prices went mental.

[Space Mackerel]

5 hours ago, JamboX2 said:

 

A fake account. But the SNP survived in office at local and national level on Tory votes and votes with the Tories often to this day at Holyrood. Let's not try make out this is a one way street Cosmic.

 

You're happy that the Labour Party are siding with the Torys at National and local level now? 

 

Well I never, what happened to the great Socialist you were before? 

 

[JamboX2]

20 hours ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

You're happy that the Labour Party are siding with the Torys at National and local level now? 

 

Well I never, what happened to the great Socialist you were before? 

 

 

I am a believer in local democracy and local parties working in ways which achieve their aims in the most effective way.

 

I can not comment on every single local authority agreement because I don't know enough about them. Why the SNP couldn't do deals with Labour in some instances to prevent this is beyond me too. 

 

Albeit you ignore Salmond relied on Goldie up till she resigned and that of late Sturgeon has sided with the Tories at times against Labour, Green and LibDem votes at Holyrood - social security and tax being two of note opposing the extra  £5 a week in child benefit for example.

 

Here is a wee thought though - we have PR in Scotland which force pluralistic politics and needing to work with all at different times to achieve certain outcomes. What's so wrong with that? 

[robbo1874]

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/sajid-javid-admits-up-to-63-windrush-migrants-could-have-been-wrongfully-deported_uk_5afaee89e4b09a94524c3d32

[Space Mackerel]

? Duh, duh, duh...another one bites the dust. ?

 

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/aberdeen/1476688/peter-chapman-msp-has-today-resigned-as-the-scottish-conservative-party-spokesman-on-rural-affairs/

 

Ruths rural affairs spokesdude getting his private and public life mixed up. 

[SpruceBringsteen]

At least this one hasn't resigned for being a colossal racist, I suppose.

[Space Mackerel]

[jambo lodge]

1 hour ago, Space Mackerel said:

? Duh, duh, duh...another one bites the dust. ?

 

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/aberdeen/1476688/peter-chapman-msp-has-today-resigned-as-the-scottish-conservative-party-spokesman-on-rural-affairs/

 

Ruths rural affairs spokesdude getting his private and public life mixed up. 

Dear Oh dear, is that the best you can do SP. There was/is no financial benefit for him in the planning application.

[jambo lodge]

1 hour ago, SpruceBringsteen said:

At least this one hasn't resigned for being a colossal racist, I suppose.

At least he had the integrity to resign, unlike Mark Mcdonald.

[Space Mackerel]

8 minutes ago, jambo lodge said:

Dear Oh dear, is that the best you can do SP. There was/is no financial benefit for him in the planning application.

 

You’re an extremely strange person to stick up for racists and tax dodgers. 

[SpruceBringsteen]

43 minutes ago, jambo lodge said:

At least he had the integrity to resign, unlike Mark Mcdonald.

 

Agreed. Horrible individual.

[Space Mackerel]

Looks like auld Tory chops stays as an MSP for now.

 

The Yoon Scotsman newspaper buttering him up as per. 

[Space Mackerel]

Ross doing what Ross does best, making an utter ***** out himself on social media time after time after time ?

 

http://www.thenational.scot/news/16235061.Tory_MP_schooled_online_over_dodgy_campaign_posters_of_the_past/

 

 

[SpruceBringsteen]

Disregarding that Thomson clearly has an IQ low enough to qualify him for benefits, why does he always look like he's trying to squeeze out a silent fart?

[Space Mackerel]

17 hours ago, SpruceBringsteen said:

Disregarding that Thomson clearly has an IQ low enough to qualify him for benefits, why does he always look like he's trying to squeeze out a silent fart?

 

Ill give you that is an effective politician, getting her message across etc and getting the Unionist vote galvanised, Ruth is pretty good.

 

The rest of her goons are complete idiots and imbeciles. Carlaw, Tomkins, Fraser and Ross really should find other jobs. 

[SpruceBringsteen]

5 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

Ill give you that is an effective politician, getting her message across etc and getting the Unionist vote galvanised, Ruth is pretty good.

 

Maybe. She's still an absolute arsehole. 

 

 

[Space Mackerel]

29 minutes ago, SpruceBringsteen said:

 

Maybe. She's still an absolute arsehole. 

 

 

 

 

Cant argue with any of that. 

[Space Mackerel]

? Duh duh duh, another one bites the dust ?

 

BNP Tory cooncillor. 

 

http://www.thenational.scot/news/16242372.Tory_councillor_suspended_as_BNP_connections_come_to_light/?ref=twtrec

[SpruceBringsteen]

31 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

? Duh duh duh, another one bites the dust ?

 

BNP Tory cooncillor. 

 

http://www.thenational.scot/news/16242372.Tory_councillor_suspended_as_BNP_connections_come_to_light/?ref=twtrec

 

At least this one hasn't resigned for being a colossal raci... Oh.

[jambo lodge]

OBR's forecast budget deficit in March 2017 was £58b. Government borrowing in 2017/2018 was £40b...…...will allow government to relax austerity a bit more. 

[jambo lodge]

50 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

? Duh duh duh, another one bites the dust ?

 

BNP Tory cooncillor. 

 

http://www.thenational.scot/news/16242372.Tory_councillor_suspended_as_BNP_connections_come_to_light/?ref=twtrec

Mark Macdonald resigned yet for being a sex pest?

[Space Mackerel]

36 minutes ago, jambo lodge said:

Mark Macdonald resigned yet for being a sex pest?

 

Considering recent cabinet secretaries Damien Green has been choking the chicken at his desk and Michael Fallon has walked for inappropriate behaviour, is this a route you want to really go down? 

 

Ive Just scratched the tip lol here. 

[Boris]

13 hours ago, jambo lodge said:

Mark Macdonald resigned yet for being a sex pest?

 

The independent MSP?  Resigned as an MSP?  No, not yet.

[jambo lodge]

1 hour ago, Boris said:

 

The independent MSP?  Resigned as an MSP?  No, not yet.

Must have missed that, shocked that SP didn't keep me right.

[Space Mackerel]

8 hours ago, jambo lodge said:

Must have missed that, shocked that SP didn't keep me right.

 

You miss quite a bit if you only read the Daily Mail.

How is Kim K's arse these days? 

[jambo lodge]

26 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

You miss quite a bit if you only read the Daily Mail.

How is Kim K's arse these days? 

Dear oh dear.