More Tory lies

[coconut doug]

20 minutes ago, Cade said:

Boris is said to be pondering making Paterson a Lord

 

 

Taking the utter pish at this point.

 

He made Dido Harding the head of Public health in England after the massively expensive (£37bn) and almost utterly useless Test and Trace system. She has no scientific or medical background. They had previously made her a peer.

 

 She is married to John Penrose who is described as Boris's anti- corruption tsar. He was just interviewed on TV but didn't know that 15 of the last 16 Conservative party treasurers had given more than £3million each to the Conservative Party immediately before becoming lords. Hypothetically he suggested that this would most likely be because of the skills and talents they brought to the job and could bring to the House of Lords rather than any cash for honours link. They have made very few contributions since joining.

 

 Penrose also said that Paterson's treatment was unfair because the process was seriously flawed. 

 

IMO If he enobles Paterson, Boris will fall.  I'm hoping he does.  Whether he's taking the pish or not, and he most definitely is, he still leads in the polls. 

[Alex Kintner]

9 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 

He made Dido Harding the head of Public health in England after the massively expensive (£37bn) and almost utterly useless Test and Trace system. She has no scientific or medical background. They had previously made her a peer.

 

 She is married to John Penrose who is described as Boris's anti- corruption tsar. He was just interviewed on TV but didn't know that 15 of the last 16 Conservative party treasurers had given more than £3million each to the Conservative Party immediately before becoming lords. Hypothetically he suggested that this would most likely be because of the skills and talents they brought to the job and could bring to the House of Lords rather than any cash for honours link. They have made very few contributions since joining.

 

 Penrose also said that Paterson's treatment was unfair because the process was seriously flawed. 

 

IMO If he enobles Paterson, Boris will fall.  I'm hoping he does.  Whether he's taking the pish or not, and he most definitely is, he still leads in the polls. 

The only thing about Boris falling is Sunak replacing him. Sunak is much more capable than the blond buffoon.

Edited November 8, 2021 by Alex Kintner

[coconut doug]

Just now, Alex Kintner said:

The only thing about Boris falling is Sunak replacing him. Sunak is much more capable than the blond buffoon.

 

I agree totally. We will have a new Conservative party that will storm ahead in the polls. Labour and Indy can't make headway against Boris and his mates so they will struggle even more without them. Tory government for the foreseeable.

[JudyJudyJudy]

I know i was critical of Starmer but he really tore Boris apart with that speech in the commons. He was on fire. 

[Footballfirst]

Not before time!

 

 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

2 hours ago, Cade said:

Boris is said to be pondering making Paterson a Lord

 

 

Taking the utter pish at this point.

 

Can't see that happening now, too much public anger around this whole affair.

[Don Dan]

Just now, Footballfirst said:

Not before time!

 

 

I hope and pray this is successful and it triggers a GE

[Don Dan]

Fleece-Bogg has turned up  now.  Brass neck is an understatement.

Edited November 8, 2021 by Boy Daniel

[Jambo-Jimbo]

2 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

Not before time!

 

 

 

This whole Owen Paterson debacle has been a watershed moment for the Tories, it was a step too far, and now all manner of shit is going to come down upon them.

[Victorian]

Some of the viewer comments on 5 News were priceless.

 

They should be allowed a 2nd job but only if it's 2 hours a week.  They should be allowed a 2nd job but only from an approved list.  I think some of these people have no understanding of what MPs get up to with their consultancy roles and their dubious board appointments and so on.  They're not all doing a set hours shift behind the bar or picking for Amazon ffs.

 

It's easy to forget that the majority of people don't involve themselves too much with politics.  It's one reason why politicians find it so easy to escape public scorn. 

Edited November 8, 2021 by Victorian

[WorldChampions1902]

35 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

Not before time!

 

 

[manaliveits105]

Pete Wishart  

sit down shut up 

[Japan Jambo]

2 hours ago, Alex Kintner said:

The only thing about Boris falling is Sunak replacing him. Sunak is much more capable than the blond buffoon.

 

Lets see how popular he is next April when the tax increases kick in. Up till now he has been showering us with gifts, road ahead may have a few potholes.

[XB52]

23 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

Pete Wishart  

sit down shut up 

It was too good to last you having 3 semi literate posts in a row was too much to ask. Pete Wishart, the shadow leader of the house, who else should report the tories 

[Japan Jambo]

5 hours ago, Victorian said:

If people want rid of the Tories at the next election then the thing to concentrate on is... getting rid of the Tories.  Not the imperfect Labour Party.  Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.  It would be better if Labour scrutiny was more effective.  It might be better if there was a more engaging leader.  But these things are largely unimportant if the purpose is to kick out the Tories.  

 

Need to offer a competent alternative. It should be like shooting at an ambulance right now but the fact they can't do that suggests strongly that they can't run the country either.

 

We aren't in a good place politically at the moment - Government/Opposition/Libs are all a complete and utter mess with nary a leader between them.

 

[Victorian]

2 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

Need to offer a competent alternative. It should be like shooting at an ambulance right now but the fact they can't do that suggests strongly that they can't run the country either.

 

We aren't in a good place politically at the moment - Government/Opposition/Libs are all a complete and utter mess with nary a leader between them.

 

 

It's still not an excuse not to kick out the Tories.  Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good,  as I said.

 

Labour are already a competent and credible alternative.  One need go no further than them not being the Tories.

 

Senior civil servants,  special advisors and departmental management teams run the country.  The government of the day simply steers policy.  There is already enough basic competence ready to replace what's there.  

[Cade]

Tory MP Adam Afriyie may be forced to step down as an MP due to ongoing bankruptcy proceedings.

His company owns £1.7million to HMRC.

 

Parliamentary rules state that bankrupt MPs must step down and force a by-election.

 

Cheats, thieves, grifters, liars and corruption all over this government.

[The Mighty Thor]

53 minutes ago, Cade said:

Tory MP Adam Afriyie may be forced to step down as an MP due to ongoing bankruptcy proceedings.

His company owns £1.7million to HMRC.

 

Parliamentary rules state that bankrupt MPs must step down and force a by-election.

 

Cheats, thieves, grifters, liars and corruption all over this government.

Drip, drip, drip.

 

Slowly at first, then all at once.

[John Findlay]

2 hours ago, Victorian said:

 

It's still not an excuse not to kick out the Tories.  Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good,  as I said.

 

Labour are already a competent and credible alternative.  One need go no further than them not being the Tories.

 

Senior civil servants,  special advisors and departmental management teams run the country.  The government of the day simply steers policy.  There is already enough basic competence ready to replace what's there.  

Labour competent, please the Fringe is over until next Summer. Before you go jumping to conclusions I am no Tory either.

[Victorian]

7 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

Labour competent, please the Fringe is over until next Summer. Before you go jumping to conclusions I am no Tory either.

 

I'm coming to it from the aspect of the specific competence being that they're not the Tories,  with everything that the Tories do.  Perpetuating inequality,  facilitating the wealth gap growing ever wider,  trying to run a free market economy and labour market within the strait jacket of the Brexit-max ideology,  facilitating macro-misappropriation of public funds via illegal procurement practice,  funding their party activities by flogging peerages and knighthoods,  criminally negligent deregulation and erosion of standards across industries,  profoundly underfunded public services of national importance... the charge sheet can go on.

[John Findlay]

2 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

I'm coming to it from the aspect of the specific competence being that they're not the Tories,  with everything that the Tories do.  Perpetuating inequality,  facilitating the wealth gap growing ever wider,  trying to run a free market economy and labour market within the strait jacket of the Brexit-max ideology,  facilitating macro-misappropriation of public funds via illegal procurement practice,  funding their party activities by flogging peerages and knighthoods,  criminally negligent deregulation and erosion of standards across industries,  profoundly underfunded public services of national importance... the charge sheet can go on.

The same charge sheet can and will be throwing at Labour if they ever regain the keys to 10 Downing Street. In my humble opinion they are as bad as each other. That has always been my view and always will be.

Labour(New, whatever that meant), werein power between 1997-2010. Name me one piece of Conservative trade union legislation that they repealed?

[Victorian]

The status quo can become so dysfunctional that the next best alternative becomes an acceptable alternative by default.

[Victorian]

1 minute ago, John Findlay said:

The same charge sheet can and will be throwing at Labour if they ever regain the keys to 10 Downing Street. In my humble opinion they are as bad as each other. That has always been my view and always will be.

Labour(New, whatever that meant), werein power between 1997-2010. Name me one piece of Conservative trade union legislation that they repealed?

 

Just excuse making imo.  

 

As one commentator said recently,  they appear to be on a path of increasingly wanton vandalism of the norms and reasonable behaviour and,  once you go beyond a point of even caring to hide your corruption and belligerence,  it's very difficult to stop.  Someone else needs to reset the norms.

[Unknown user]

3 hours ago, manaliveits105 said:

Pete Wishart  

sit down shut up 

 

[JimboJambo1874]

3 hours ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

Need to offer a competent alternative. It should be like shooting at an ambulance right now but the fact they can't do that suggests strongly that they can't run the country either.

 

We aren't in a good place politically at the moment - Government/Opposition/Libs are all a complete and utter mess with nary a leader between them.

 

 

Has there every been a time when trust in politicians has been so low? Political corruption and incompetence is more apparent than ever. It may just be harder for them to hide it now. We are definitely not a good place as you say. There is a real lack of stability. I think most countries need a good centre right and a good centre left party at least, to remain stable. Ideally you'd have up to 4 viable parties. Politicians are so wrapped up in trivial issues like identity politics. They seem to have forgotten what their job is. Focus on the economy, crime and education to begin with. It's a concerning time. Unfortunately, this is when extremist parties spot their opportunity.

[John Findlay]

8 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Just excuse making imo.  

 

As one commentator said recently,  they appear to be on a path of increasingly wanton vandalism of the norms and reasonable behaviour and,  once you go beyond a point of even caring to hide your corruption and belligerence,  it's very difficult to stop.  Someone else needs to reset the norms.

That's my point. No one will reset the norms. Imho, they are as bad as each other.

[Victorian]

Just now, John Findlay said:

That's my point. No one will reset the norms. Imho, they are as bad as each other.

 

Baffling.  The current Labour Party and it's MPs have not had any opportunity to either replicate the behaviour of the Tories or to prove they're better.  From that standpoint,  they cannot be described as as bad as each other.  You need to provide the alternative party with the opportunity first.  You can't simply assume that MPs in 2021 will revert to the acts of the 1970s or 2000s.

[John Findlay]

7 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Baffling.  The current Labour Party and it's MPs have not had any opportunity to either replicate the behaviour of the Tories or to prove they're better.  From that standpoint,  they cannot be described as as bad as each other.  You need to provide the alternative party with the opportunity first.  You can't simply assume that MPs in 2021 will revert to the acts of the 1970s or 2000s.

Please, don't insult my intelligence, 

Vote Labour in, feel free. Then comeback in 15yrs time and explain to me why nothing has changed. Hopefully I will still be here aged 73.

[Victorian]

5 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

Please, don't insult my intelligence, 

Vote Labour in, feel free. Then comeback in 15yrs time and explain to me why nothing has changed. Hopefully I will still be here aged 73.

 

Keep your temper to yourself.  I didn't insult your intelligence in any way.

 

My point is that change is required.  In a much better political landscape,  everyone would concentrate on the comparative policies and philosophy and apparent personalities of the parties.  That's what is important.  I think right now the important thing is to change the people.  The current people are taking the piss and wrecking the fabric of democracy.  When you normalise gangster behaviour and vandalism of democracy,  you risk normalising it permanently.  It wont go back.

 

Things are so shit right now that the priority us to oust the people and entrust other people to arrest the descent.

[Alex Kintner]

Speaker Lyndsay Hoyle pretty much saying the whole Standards Committee issue is still a mess after last week’s vote and up to Govt to sort it pronto. Someone suggested a quick vote tomorrow to nullify last week’s Leadsom amendment and approve the committee report on Paterson but the Govt rejected that idea.

Edited November 8, 2021 by Alex Kintner

[luckydug]

26 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

Please, don't insult my intelligence, 

Vote Labour in, feel free. Then comeback in 15yrs time and explain to me why nothing has changed. Hopefully I will still be here aged 73.

What would you have the people of 

RUK do then ? 

We can vote SNP or other pro Indy parties but the rest of UK are stuck with Tory or Labour. 

You are not even giving the opposition a chance. 

Might as well have a dictatorship then. 🤔 

[Victorian]

41 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:

Speaker Lyndsay Hoyle pretty much saying the whole Standards Committee issue is still a mess after last week’s vote and up to Govt to sort it pronto. Someone suggested a quick vote tomorrow to nullify last week’s Leadsom amendment and approve the committee report on Paterson but the Govt rejected that idea.

 

Yep.  They seem to be performing a U-turn on the U-turn.  

 

One major problem is that Johnson's continued premiership exists within the gift of actors in the party.  They'll ditch him very quickly if necessary.  He constantly has to operate to the tune of factions,  groups,  alliances in the back benches.  Imo Johnson co-opted the attempt to save Paterson because it was the wish of some of Paterson's friends and Johnson felt compelled to go along.  People like Leadsom,  Cash and Jenkin were behind this and they're working Johnson like a puppet.  These are dangerously arrogant people who don't know the meaning of the word no.  I think we'll see more to come from this as these people continue to twist Johnson's arm.

Edited November 8, 2021 by Victorian

[Savage Vince]

2 hours ago, John Findlay said:

That's my point. No one will reset the norms. Imho, they are as bad as each other.

 

The 'they're as bad as each other' argument is the argument of idiots. 

[Unknown user]

13 minutes ago, Savage Vince said:

 

The 'they're as bad as each other' argument is the argument of idiots. 

 

It's certainly lazy, and it suits the wankers for the (relatively) good guys to be tarred with the same brush as them

[The Mighty Thor]

8 hours ago, Alex Kintner said:

Speaker Lyndsay Hoyle pretty much saying the whole Standards Committee issue is still a mess after last week’s vote and up to Govt to sort it pronto. Someone suggested a quick vote tomorrow to nullify last week’s Leadsom amendment and approve the committee report on Paterson but the Govt rejected that idea.

It was Chris Bryant. Chairman of the standards committee, giving the party of sleaze an opportunity to 'do the right thing' after doing very much the wrong thing. 

Anyone that saw any of the debate, featuring risible contributions from Bill Cash and Peter Bone, would understand why they wouldn't do the right thing. Rotten to the core. 

[John Findlay]

6 hours ago, Savage Vince said:

 

The 'they're as bad as each other' argument is the argument of idiots. 

Especially us idiots who have been able to vote alot longer than the likes of you.

I will stick to my healthy cynicism of all politicians, of all political persuasion thank you very much, its called over 50yrs of experience at the hands of them. Westminster until 1997, and then both Westminster and Holyrood from 1997 to the present day.

If in your opinion that makes me an idiot, then I'm happy to carry on being an idiot. I haven't done to badly to date for being one.

[Savage Vince]

11 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

Especially us idiots who have been able to vote alot longer than the likes of you.

I will stick to my healthy cynicism of all politicians, of all political persuasion thank you very much, its called over 50yrs of experience at the hands of them. Westminster until 1997, and then both Westminster and Holyrood from 1997 to the present day.

If in your opinion that makes me an idiot, then I'm happy to carry on being an idiot. I haven't done to badly to date for being one.

 

Makes sense 👍

[Jeffros Furios]

Dominic Raab is a ****in weasel .

[Japan Jambo]

11 hours ago, JimboJambo1874 said:

 

Has there every been a time when trust in politicians has been so low? Political corruption and incompetence is more apparent than ever. It may just be harder for them to hide it now. We are definitely not a good place as you say. There is a real lack of stability. I think most countries need a good centre right and a good centre left party at least, to remain stable. Ideally you'd have up to 4 viable parties. Politicians are so wrapped up in trivial issues like identity politics. They seem to have forgotten what their job is. Focus on the economy, crime and education to begin with. It's a concerning time. Unfortunately, this is when extremist parties spot their opportunity.

 

Bang on the money, a definite possibility. 

[SectionDJambo]

9 hours ago, Victorian said:

 

Yep.  They seem to be performing a U-turn on the U-turn.  

 

One major problem is that Johnson's continued premiership exists within the gift of actors in the party.  They'll ditch him very quickly if necessary.  He constantly has to operate to the tune of factions,  groups,  alliances in the back benches.  Imo Johnson co-opted the attempt to save Paterson because it was the wish of some of Paterson's friends and Johnson felt compelled to go along.  People like Leadsom,  Cash and Jenkin were behind this and they're working Johnson like a puppet.  These are dangerously arrogant people who don't know the meaning of the word no.  I think we'll see more to come from this as these people continue to twist Johnson's arm.

Leadsom was happy to be at the forefront of this debacle when it looked like a wee jolly victory for her and her pals. Doesn't seem so keen to be seen now though.

A horrible woman, disliked by many in her own party, especially Theresa May I would imagine. Remember when the two of them were competing for the Tory leadership, and PM position? Leadsom said she was a more appropriate candidate for PM because she had experience of raising children. This in the full knowledge that Theresa May couldn't have children, which had caused her some upset in the past. 

You're right about Johnson. He spends so much time sucking up to different factions and people, that he doesn't think about the consequences as long as he keeps his job. He knows he's only in that job as long as he tows the line of those who got him in there for their own short term gain. They all know he's a clown and will turn on him very easily when he ceases to be an inside man for them.

[Japan Jambo]

11 hours ago, Victorian said:

 

Baffling.  The current Labour Party and it's MPs have not had any opportunity to either replicate the behaviour of the Tories or to prove they're better.  From that standpoint,  they cannot be described as as bad as each other.  You need to provide the alternative party with the opportunity first.  You can't simply assume that MPs in 2021 will revert to the acts of the 1970s or 2000s.

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1517721/andrew-marr-keir-starmer-claudia-webb-seven-labour-mps-jail-sentence-tory-sleaze-vn

 

a plague on both their houses...

[Alex Kintner]

10 hours ago, Victorian said:

 

Yep.  They seem to be performing a U-turn on the U-turn.  

 

One major problem is that Johnson's continued premiership exists within the gift of actors in the party.  They'll ditch him very quickly if necessary.  He constantly has to operate to the tune of factions,  groups,  alliances in the back benches.  Imo Johnson co-opted the attempt to save Paterson because it was the wish of some of Paterson's friends and Johnson felt compelled to go along.  People like Leadsom,  Cash and Jenkin were behind this and they're working Johnson like a puppet.  These are dangerously arrogant people who don't know the meaning of the word no.  I think we'll see more to come from this as these people continue to twist Johnson's arm.

Johnson now also in danger of pissing off his 2019 cohort. Some interesting speeches from some of them yesterday about not being told what to do by more experienced backbenchers.

 

2 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said:

It was Chris Bryant. Chairman of the standards committee, giving the party of sleaze an opportunity to 'do the right thing' after doing very much the wrong thing. 

Anyone that saw any of the debate, featuring risible contributions from Bill Cash and Peter Bone, would understand why they wouldn't do the right thing. Rotten to the core. 

I saw Cash’s speech. You could hear the groans in the chamber.

[manaliveits105]

11 hours ago, JimboJambo1874 said:

 

Has there every been a time when trust in politicians has been so low? Political corruption and incompetence is more apparent than ever. It may just be harder for them to hide it now. We are definitely not a good place as you say. There is a real lack of stability. I think most countries need a good centre right and a good centre left party at least, to remain stable. Ideally you'd have up to 4 viable parties. Politicians are so wrapped up in trivial issues like identity politics. They seem to have forgotten what their job is. Focus on the economy, crime and education to begin with. It's a concerning time. Unfortunately, this is when extremist parties spot their opportunity.

and regrettably here in Scotland we suffer on all fronts from an incompetent dominant nationalist party 

[manaliveits105]

6 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1517721/andrew-marr-keir-starmer-claudia-webb-seven-labour-mps-jail-sentence-tory-sleaze-vn

 

a plague on both their houses...

Labour scum 

[Unknown user]

15 minutes ago, Jeffros Furios said:

Dominic Raab is a ****in weasel .

 

Absolutely. It's good to see the public opening their eyes to what a blatant bunch of absolute shysters this government are, but frustrating that it's taken so long.

[XB52]

I love threads like these where wm gets torn to shreds while NS can just sit back and smile. I detest BJ and his Eton mess but the longer he is allowed to stay in power the better for Scotland imo of course

[Japan Jambo]

14 hours ago, Victorian said:

 

It's still not an excuse not to kick out the Tories.  Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good,  as I said.

 

Labour are already a competent and credible alternative.  One need go no further than them not being the Tories.

 

Senior civil servants,  special advisors and departmental management teams run the country.  The government of the day simply steers policy.  There is already enough basic competence ready to replace what's there.  

 

They aren't even qualified to provide an effective opposition - it's arguable that the Blackford does as good a job (pound for pound) given the restricted opportunities he has.

[The Mighty Thor]

32 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:

Johnson now also in danger of pissing off his 2019 cohort. Some interesting speeches from some of them yesterday about not being told what to do by more experienced backbenchers.

 

I saw Cash’s speech. You could hear the groans in the chamber.

Interestingly two of the Tory MPs who sit on the standards committee both came out swinging yesterday. Mark Fletcher & Andy Carter both defended the decision of the committee, the process and the evidence heard. 

They both also criticised as much as they could, Johnson and Mogg.

 

No doubt the Eton Mess will be in hiding until tomorrow's PMQs, where hopefully he gets his arse handed to him again.

[JudyJudyJudy]

45 minutes ago, SectionDJambo said:

Leadsom was happy to be at the forefront of this debacle when it looked like a wee jolly victory for her and her pals. Doesn't seem so keen to be seen now though.

A horrible woman, disliked by many in her own party, especially Theresa May I would imagine. Remember when the two of them were competing for the Tory leadership, and PM position? Leadsom said she was a more appropriate candidate for PM because she had experience of raising children. This in the full knowledge that Theresa May couldn't have children, which had caused her some upset in the past. 

You're right about Johnson. He spends so much time sucking up to different factions and people, that he doesn't think about the consequences as long as he keeps his job. He knows he's only in that job as long as he tows the line of those who got him in there for their own short term gain. They all know he's a clown and will turn on him very easily when he ceases to be an inside man for them.

Yes that was a mean and personal thing to say about Theresa May . Not having children by choice must be painful really . One of my unionist friends has thrown that issue regarding Nicola S too . It’s a low blow . I’ve challenged her about that though. It’s like devaluing someone’s role and Statius in society just because they haven’t Bred ? 
 

I Think May has redeemed herself in some ways in the last few years . I know she was as much use as a chocolate tea pot and her dancing was even worse but she makes Johnson seem like Churchill now 😂

Edited November 9, 2021 by JamesM48

[Victorian]

5 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

They aren't even qualified to provide an effective opposition - it's arguable that the Blackford does as good a job (pound for pound) given the restricted opportunities he has.

 

You're missing the point.  Labour are competent and qualified by default due to not being the Tories.  That is their main and important competence atm.  The next best alternative becomes a good alternative by default when the incumbent reaches the event horizon of uselessness,  dysfunction,  corruption,  etc.  My point is that we're at that stage now.

 

If it was up to me I would try to organise a cross-house pact / coalition to run on a ticket of anti-corruption and pro-democratic values.