pablo Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 Any network extention should be judged on its own merits. The inquiry can deal with the past mistakes. It will happen, it's just a question of when in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gasman Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 Any network extention should be judged on its own merits. The inquiry can deal with the past mistakes. It will happen, it's just a question of when in my opinion. Agree, up to a point, that there's no point going over the same past mistakes.... But.... I'd add that they must still take into account the council's ability to service the debt for the original part line, the cost of financing any extension, and the financial viability of any extended line. The extension's positives and negatives cannot be judged complete in isolation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3fingersreid Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 (edited) For me the only question is " can the city council afford to pay for it ?" And the simple answer is no we can't at the moment , so rather than landing us with more debt let's just get our current problems dealt with of which there are many , schools housing ,services etc . Once that's been dealt with and things start to pick up then yes go ahead and do it but until then it's a no goer for me Edited November 2, 2014 by 3fingersreid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 Edinburgh tram route to be extended. http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/leith-and-granton-spur-tram-routes-back-on-agenda-1-3590956 Great news. More road works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMaganator Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 We should be building walls to keep Leithers out. Not extending the tram lines to assist them coming west. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lavrentiy Beria Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 We should be building walls to keep Leithers out. Not extending the tram lines to assist them coming west. Having spent last night in Leith i have to agree . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 http://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/tram-inquiry-witnesses-to-be-forced-to-co-operate-1-3597962 No more hiding or sweeping it under the carpet, let's find out who is responsible for this fiasco and hold them to account. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FWJ Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 (edited) http://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/tram-inquiry-witnesses-to-be-forced-to-co-operate-1-3597962 No more hiding or sweeping it under the carpet, let's find out who is responsible for this fiasco and hold them to account. Absolutely. And once we've found out how it went wrong we'll know how to do it right when the line is extended and further ones added. Our rapidly growing capital needs a high quality, high volume transport system. One than will allow the growth to continue without the historic core of the city becoming gridlocked with motor vehicles. Or we could just build a motorway on stilts through Princes Street Gardens like they were planning in the sixties. Edited November 7, 2014 by FWJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 Absolutely. And once we've found out how it went wrong we'll know how to do it right when the line is extended and further ones added. Our rapidly growing capital needs a high quality, high volume transport system. One than will allow the growth to continue without the historic core of the city becoming gridlocked with motor vehicles. Or we could just build a motorway on stilts through Princes Street Gardens like they were planning in the sixties. You need to wake up and smell the coffee, mate. The money is gone, and we have racked up a huge debt on the council's vanity project. Those responsible are hopefully now going to be made accountable, but that won't bring the money back.and we can't afford any further development. FFS they haven't even proven that the existing line is financially viable to run once it ceases to be a novelty! The roads in the city were not designed to carry a tram network, and it will be proven that you can't fit buses, trams, and cars onto the same busy roads. Have you seen the gridlock Princes Street is in, and it doesn't even allow cars on it?! You talk about the city centre being gridlocked with motor vehicles, yet I think you will find that won't happen if your main shopping area is filled with vacant lets and tartan tat shops due to the mess of the trams and anti-car policies of the council. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Governor Tarkin Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 You need to wake up and smell the coffee, mate. The money is gone, and we have racked up a huge debt on the council's vanity project. Those responsible are hopefully now going to be made accountable, but that won't bring the money back.and we can't afford any further development. FFS they haven't even proven that the existing line is financially viable to run once it ceases to be a novelty! The roads in the city were not designed to carry a tram network, and it will be proven that you can't fit buses, trams, and cars onto the same busy roads. Have you seen the gridlock Princes Street is in, and it doesn't even allow cars on it?! You talk about the city centre being gridlocked with motor vehicles, yet I think you will find that won't happen if your main shopping area is filled with vacant lets and tartan tat shops due to the mess of the trams and anti-car policies of the council. Out of interest, what would be your preferred solution to the Edinburgh transport conundrum? I hear a lot of negatives about the trams but not much in the way of constructive alternatives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughesie27 Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 Out of interest, what would be your preferred solution to the Edinburgh transport conundrum? I hear a lot of negatives about the trams but not much in the way of constructive alternatives. There is no reason to improve or overhaul our cities transport. We have the best bus service in the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3fingersreid Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 Out of interest, what would be your preferred solution to the Edinburgh transport conundrum? I hear a lot of negatives about the trams but not much in the way of constructive alternatives. I'm not so sure people are anti-tram ,most sensible people want as little congestion as possible , what I think is ,most people are anti COST of the tram It'll be interesting to hear what comes out in the wash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refreshment Barrier Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 Love the trams - 3 stops to work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_jambo Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 We need a high quality, high volume transport system...unfortunately the trams are neither and they cause much more congestion and traffic within the city centre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shedjambo Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 Love the trams - 3 stops to work Edinburgh Evening news today, Tram leaders to face charges and jail because they avoided an enquiry, oh the OTT journalism, cant see this happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 Out of interest, what would be your preferred solution to the Edinburgh transport conundrum? I hear a lot of negatives about the trams but not much in the way of constructive alternatives. There are two main points here: 1. The coumcil have proven themselves unfit to manage our finances. They have racked up debts they can barely afford and are talking about further tram lines. They are like a gambler on a massive losing streak who keeps gambling to recoup their losses. 2. We had trams before and discontinued them. The city has since been designed for motor vehicles and there is no space for trams on most of our roads out with the city centre. Buses are where we should be investing our public transport as it only needs tweaks here and there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shedjambo Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 There are two main points here: 1. The coumcil have proven themselves unfit to manage our finances. They have racked up debts they can barely afford and are talking about further tram lines. They are like a gambler on a massive losing streak who keeps gambling to recoup their losses. 2. We had trams before and discontinued them. The city has since been designed for motor vehicles and there is no space for trams on most of our roads out with the city centre. Buses are where we should be investing our public transport as it only needs tweaks here and there. Frank the city has not been designed for cars at present as the council dont want cars in the centre, our roads are a joke in Edinburgh.And as for the pedestrian crossings bang next to the Drumbrae Roundabout, whos bright idea was that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 Frank the city has not been designed for cars at present as the council dont want cars in the centre, our roads are a joke in Edinburgh. And as for the pedestrian crossings bang next to the Drumbrae Roundabout, whos bright idea was that. If I wasn't clear I meant that since the old trams went we have had 40+ years of developments for property and roads based on motor vehicles. By motor vehicles I include buses and cars. The old tram infrastructure is gone and been built over. We can't get that back. There is no way to get trams out to Edinburgh's North West areas like Corstorphine, Parkgrove, Barnton etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 Edinburgh has been designed with car drivers in mind? If ever one sentence demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of the city, it's this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 Edinburgh has been designed with car drivers in mind? If ever one sentence demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of the city, it's this. That is simply not what I said, as I explained in the post before yours, which you clearly didn't read. Do you not understand the difference between the term "Motor Vehicles" and "Cars"? I also qualified the time period as being the past 40/50 years or so. If you think Edinburgh's infrastructure is exactly the same as it was 50 years ago and we can just put trams or even rail links where they used to be, you are a fantasist. I was brought up in Barnton Park. As a kid I played where there was ruins of buildings for an old railway station next to the Royal Burgess. Even those ruins are built on with houses now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 Everybody involved in the promulgation or construction of the tram line should be given a fair trial, then taken outside and flogged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FWJ Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 (edited) If you think Edinburgh has been designed for motor cars you should have a look at the "Abercrombie and Plumstead Post-War Plan" for Edinburgh and see what an Edinburgh designed for motor vehicles might look like. Consistent market research over decades has shown people are much more likely to leave their cars for a tram than for a bus. Edited November 8, 2014 by FWJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 If you think Edinburgh has been designed for motor cars you should have a look at the "Abercrombie and Plumstead Post-War Plan" for Edinburgh and see what an Edinburgh designed for motor vehicles might look like. It is absolutely horrible. I suppose that at the time it was an attempt to use the benefits of new technologies and resources but what devastation it would have caused. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le Tissier Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 Still think a monorail would have been the best idea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 Abercrombie plan - and many other 'plans' for Edinburgh or Edinburgh areas - including one close to our Hearts - on this thread. Fascinating. http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1664100 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_jambo Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 Abercrombie plan - and many other 'plans' for Edinburgh or Edinburgh areas - including one close to our Hearts - on this thread. Fascinating. http://www.skyscrape...d.php?t=1664100 Amazing website. Thanks for posting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Gin Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 Abercrombie plan - and many other 'plans' for Edinburgh or Edinburgh areas - including one close to our Hearts - on this thread. Fascinating. http://www.skyscrape...d.php?t=1664100 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Of The Cat Cafe Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 My mole within the council tells me that no one expected the huge problems that were thrown up when the contractors started digging: pipes, cables and sewers that no one knew about for a start. A lot of time, effort, and, yes, money went into sorting that out. The fact that a lot of the work seemed to have been inept and had to be redone several times did not help. Tram systems can work. Edinburgh just has had some bad experiences. I am looking forward reading the EEN headline saying 'Final tram debt paid off'. Mind you, I will be about 400 years old at that time. And Hibs will still be waiting for a Scottish Cup to grace their trophy cabinet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Thor Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 My mole within the council tells me that no one expected the huge problems that were thrown up when the contractors started digging: pipes, cables and sewers that no one knew about for a start. A lot of time, effort, and, yes, money went into sorting that out. Your mole in the council effectively told you no one at the council has a fecking scooby. Where did they expect the cables pipes and sewers to be? Bilfinger Berger were rubbing their hands when the clowns from CEC rocked up with huge pots of public cash. As will no doubt become evident during the enquiry they tied the dummies from CEC in contractual knots then left them to hang themselves out to dry whilst the cash rolled in. Why wasn't it scrapped? Because they'd still have had to pay out for the full job. Brilliant bit of work by BB. You have to doff your cap to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neave Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 My mole within the council tells me that no one expected the huge problems that were thrown up when the contractors started digging: pipes, cables and sewers that no one knew about for a start. A lot of time, effort, and, yes, money went into sorting that out. The fact that a lot of the work seemed to have been inept and had to be redone several times did not help. Tram systems can work. Edinburgh just has had some bad experiences. I am looking forward reading the EEN headline saying 'Final tram debt paid off'. Mind you, I will be about 400 years old at that time. And Hibs will still be waiting for a Scottish Cup to grace their trophy cabinet. Absolutely they can. A single track, serving one line already covered by two successful bus services, that was delivered without the billpayers' approval, hugely late and massively over-budget, however, makes a mockery of a lot of things and people that don't necessarily deserve it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Stopped running again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Lyon Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 I saw 2 nearly empty ones at Sighthill about an hour ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 There was an incident in Shandwick Place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Lyon Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Not another one? Where is Lesley Hinds when you need her? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimpos Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Bus drivers in Edinburgh must be a wee bit short sighted? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rael11 Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Fire in a sub station near Atholl Place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le Tissier Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Entire line down due to power cut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuck677 Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Can you not buy tickets with cash? I tried to buy a ticket at the airport and the staff said it was card only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shedjambo Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Entire line down due to power cut Council not paying the lecky bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 (edited) There is no reason to improve or overhaul our cities transport. We have the best bus service in the UK. all very well now what about the predicted population increase (edit 28% in next 25 years to 620,000) What about more houses getting built. Edited November 14, 2014 by Mikey1874 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Lyon Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 All the new housing developments should have ultra wide streets so they can accommodate trams and motor vehicles. Can just see developers giving up valuable land for that use! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neave Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 all very well now what about the predicted population increase (edit 28% in next 25 years to 620,000) What about more houses getting built. Putting on more buses will be a hell of a lot cheaper than laying down tram lines to service the new neighbourhoods. I really don't get how an increase in Edinburgh's population would justify even more overspend on the trams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seymour M Hersh Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Any network extention should be judged on its own merits. The inquiry can deal with the past mistakes. It will happen, it's just a question of when in my opinion. Problem is the clownsillors never learn from the many mistakes they make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FWJ Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 I'm still going for motorways on stilts. They're a valuable addition to any city centre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunks Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 Can you not buy tickets with cash? I tried to buy a ticket at the airport and the staff said it was card only. The ticket machines accept cash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 Can you not buy tickets with cash? I tried to buy a ticket at the airport and the staff said it was card only. Get the bus it's more reliable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shedjambo Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 Get the bus it's more reliable. All us tax payers should have had a vote on the empty trams, best bus service in Britain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 All us tax payers should have had a vote on the empty trams, best bus service in Britain. Correct. A very expensive toy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FWJ Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 Did we get a vote on the new Forth Road Bridge or dualling the A9? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randle P McMurphy Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 All us tax payers should have had a vote on the empty trams, best bus service in Britain. Why should American tax payers have had a vote on this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4,228
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.