3fingersreid Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 Did we get a vote on the new Forth Road Bridge or dualling the A9? The reason we got the tram tho was we got a vote on congestion charging but the council tried to have 3 paying zones and it got rejected , rightly so IMHO , although a city centre charge would've done , they then TOLD us we were getting the tram away back in 2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FWJ Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 The reason we got the tram tho was we got a vote on congestion charging but the council tried to have 3 paying zones and it got rejected , rightly so IMHO , although a city centre charge would've done , they then TOLD us we were getting the tram away back in 2005 My understanding was that the congestion charge was to help fund the line down to the new Royal. The current one was already funded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3fingersreid Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Congestion charge predated the tram work iirc , if they'd just had a city centre charge it would have went thru no problem but unfortunately they got greedy What I don't get is IF the council are planning to increase the line to leith why are they widening the leith walk pavements and resurfacing the road ? - at a fair expense too I'd have thought just to dig it all up again shortly . Again I'm not anti tram but the people in charge of the project ( council side) are at best incompetent and shouldn't be anywhere near any future development of the tram network Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Spackler Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Well the one thing I thought the trams might be good for was when there's a big match at Murrayfield. I was wrong. Instead of letting people stand at the platform at the top of the steps or even on the steps they were holding everyone at the bottom, This in turn cause a load of congestion on the road which isn't normally there. So instead of making the situation better it's been made worse. Useless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Jung Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Well the one thing I thought the trams might be good for was when there's a big match at Murrayfield. I was wrong. Instead of letting people stand at the platform at the top of the steps or even on the steps they were holding everyone at the bottom, This in turn cause a load of congestion on the road which isn't normally there. So instead of making the situation better it's been made worse. Useless. I got a tram yesterday from Princes Street to Murrayfield at half four. Waited ten minutes to get a ticket then spent the next 25m on the tram until we reached Murrayfield. I also got the tram from the airport to St Andrew Square the other week and it took 45m. Seems the tram only works for certain people at certain times of day travelling to certain areas. I want it to work but right now the benefits don't merit the expense given the other options available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Lyon Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Edinburgh's second disgrace! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuck677 Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 The ticket machines accept cash Maybe not at the airport. The attendant helped me with the machine and said I had to use card. Strange. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavsy Van Gaverson Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 (edited) On a course with work this week. Saughton to Haymarket in around 8 or 9 minutes this morning. Excellent service. Edited November 18, 2014 by Gavsy Van Gaverson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagger Is Back Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 (edited) Only been on a tram twice. Got one on Friday night heading into town. Was in a rush, ran for the tram as it pulled up and jumped on. Conductress came along and I asked her how much, producing shrapnel out of my pocket. ?10 she smiled. What? You need to buy your ticket before you get on or it's a tenner. OK, so I pay you a tenner? Yip Well can you not just sell me a ticket at ?1.50? Nope, it's policy So, had to get off at the next stop, buy a ticket and then waited for the next one. C'est la vie but got me thinking. How much are we gonna make from unsuspecting tourists during the summer? All in all it seems a bit off although I totally get why they're doing it. Have to say though that compared to getting the bus, they're a dream. Clean, warm, free Wi-Fi, fast journey times - what's not to like? Edited November 18, 2014 by Dagger Is Back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Of The Cat Cafe Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 Moral dilemma: I bought an airport return a few weeks back and it was validated on way into city, but not cancelled on the way back to airport. So next time, anyone think I should buy a single into the city and use up the old return on the way out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dobmisterdobster Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 Moral dilemma: I bought an airport return a few weeks back and it was validated on way into city, but not cancelled on the way back to airport. So next time, anyone think I should buy a single into the city and use up the old return on the way out? Go for it if you can get away with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Lyon Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 Yes go for it and delay the repayment of the debt incurred by CeC to build the line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 A ?400,000 study into the costs and benefits of extending the trams to Leith and Granton. Laughable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertracoon Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 A ?400,000 study into the costs and benefits of extending the trams to Leith and Granton. Laughable. How can any feasability study possibly cost ?400? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 How can any feasability study possibly cost ?400? Jobs for the boys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 thought they already knew all this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 thought they already knew all thisOf course they know it.They just want to make sure. They have no shame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 (edited) thought they already knew all this. Edited December 5, 2014 by The Real Maroonblood Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FWJ Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 Yup, they already know the best way for the trams to pay is to extend the line through the most densely populated area in Scotland - maybe they should just get on with it ASAP. I suppose they want an in-depth report first though to have it in black-and-white. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 Feasibility report: Embra coonsil is bankrupt, hundreds of jobs going, 1/3 of all leisure centres going, schools crumbling, 30mil a year being spent on the loan repayments for existing tramline. Leith Walk has been constantly dug up for about 6 years, and it feels as if it's the new "painting the forth bridge". Folk wouldn't notice if we dug it up again for more trams. Embra coonsil cares not one jot for traffic mayhem. End result: We need someone else to pay for it but we'll happily disrupt the entire east end of the city centre for a couple of years to build it, even though it only extends from York Place to MacDonald Road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cabbie754 Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 They have already done all the utility works cso it would just be laying the line and erecting the poles for the wires. Anyway, since the trams are here we have to make the best of it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 yep - guessing cooncil just likes to do stuff at its own pace - PR exercise methinks maybe scared of making mistakes tbf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertracoon Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 Yup, they already know the best way for the trams to pay is to extend the line through the most densely populated area in Scotland - maybe they should just get on with it ASAP. I suppose they want an in-depth report first though to have it in black-and-white. I have no problem with them doing a study and making sure that it's the correct thing to do. I have a problem with it costing ?400k though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FWJ Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 I have no problem with them doing a study and making sure that it's the correct thing to do. I have a problem with it costing ?400k though It does seem a lot but I don't know how much stuff like that costs. I suppose if they are getting lots of experts and doing it thoroughly it won't come cheap though. Imagine the outrage if they did it on the cheap - more 'back-of-a-fag-packet' accusations. It seems to be pretty settled that in order for it to make money it was always going to have to go down Leith Walk - getting an authoritative study to confirm that will surely help the council's case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Lyon Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 What mode of transport did the 90,000 passengers the tram claim travel per week use before the tram? They can't all have been car users! So all they have done is move the majority of its passengers from the buses. So what's the benefit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 It does seem a lot but I don't know how much stuff like that costs. I suppose if they are getting lots of experts and doing it thoroughly it won't come cheap though. Imagine the outrage if they did it on the cheap - more 'back-of-a-fag-packet' accusations. It seems to be pretty settled that in order for it to make money it was always going to have to go down Leith Walk - getting an authoritative study to confirm that will surely help the council's case. What a lot of nonsense.So since the start of this farce they didn't know what was required. Don't make me laugh. A total embarrassment. As long as someone is having their bank balance increased what the hell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boaby Ewing Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 Ten minutes between trams? **** that shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FWJ Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 What a lot of nonsense. So since the start of this farce they didn't know what was required. Don't make me laugh. A total embarrassment. As long as someone is having their bank balance increased what the hell. No, they always knew it would have to go down Leith Walk (the most densely populated part of the entire country) to make money. Why the airport section was built rather than this I don't know. If the council hadn't undertaken an in depth study to prove that this was the case people would want to know why not. Damned if they do and damned if they don't. People want proof that they have learned from past mistakes and they want the tram to make money - carrying out such a study to prove the viability of the line extension should do that. 140,000 more people in Edinburgh in the next 25 years. They're going to have to get about somehow. Motorways on stilts anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FWJ Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 What mode of transport did the 90,000 passengers the tram claim travel per week use before the tram? They can't all have been car users! So all they have done is move the majority of its passengers from the buses. So what's the benefit? People are much more likely to leave their car for a tram than a bus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 No, they always knew it would have to go down Leith Walk (the most densely populated part of the entire country) to make money. Why the airport section was built rather than this I don't know. If the council hadn't undertaken an in depth study to prove that this was the case people would want to know why not. Damned if they do and damned if they don't. People want proof that they have learned from past mistakes and they want the tram to make money - carrying out such a study to prove the viability of the line extension should do that. 140,000 more people in Edinburgh in the next 25 years. They're going to have to get about somehow. Motorways on stilts anyone? This study must have been done before the work started.If they didn't it proves they are a shower of throbbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FWJ Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 This study must have been done before the work started. If they didn't it proves they are a shower of throbbers. And if they used an old study from before the tram work started people would say (from the carry-on that accompanied the building of the truncated line) that that old study was discredited and worthless. Damned if they do and damned if they dont. The trams are here. What to do? Abandon the whole thing, rip up the lines and sell the carriages for what you can get? Would cost a fortune and years more road works. Leave things as they are? Borderline profitability. Bite the bullet and extend the line to Ocean Terminal? Most of the road works have been done, the capital costs (track, trams, overhead lines) have been met and there's more chance of the tram making money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Lyon Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 Better just to park them at suitable locations along the route and lease them out as cafes/bars etc. Probably recoup the cost faster than continuing to run them as a poor man's bus! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chester™ Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 No, they always knew it would have to go down Leith Walk (the most densely populated part of the entire country) to make money. Why the airport section was built rather than this I don't know. Really? All those business types and tourists? Come on now. We all know why that section was built. As for this study, there is a good chance it being done to see if they can still do it. Leith Walk has just went under a pavement widening process has it not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Swanson Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 Feasibility report: Embra coonsil is bankrupt, hundreds of jobs going, 1/3 of all leisure centres going, schools crumbling, 30mil a year being spent on the loan repayments for existing tramline. Leith Walk has been constantly dug up for about 6 years, and it feels as if it's the new "painting the forth bridge". Folk wouldn't notice if we dug it up again for more trams. Embra coonsil cares not one jot for traffic mayhem. End result: We need someone else to pay for it but we'll happily disrupt the entire east end of the city centre for a couple of years to build it, even though it only extends from York Place to MacDonald Road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3fingersreid Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 If they are planning to extend the line why have they narrowed the road on leith walk ? I have no idea to the cost of this work but it wouldn't be cheap and if the line gets the go ahead will it be ripped up again ? Is it too much to plan ahead ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUTOL Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 What mode of transport did the 90,000 passengers the tram claim travel per week use before the tram? They can't all have been car users! So all they have done is move the majority of its passengers from the buses. So what's the benefit? It will become a benefit if they remove underused buses from the tram-route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Lyon Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 SUTOL - but the tram timetable might not suit everyone especially when they are prone to prangs with buses, balloons on the overhead wires etc., etc., etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyjambo Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 currently not running due to a broken down tram on Shandwick Placxe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnar Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 (edited) Vehicle in breaking down SHOCKER. Buses break down all the time, but the media doesn't report that. Not sure why trams are any different? Edited December 22, 2014 by Ragnar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Lyon Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 Easier to remove a broken down bus than a broken down tram. Tram breakdowns generally cause traffic jams! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Treasurer Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 Vehicle in breaking down SHOCKER. Buses break down all the time, but the media doesn't report that. Not sure why trams are any different? Buses didn't cost ?1billion for one route Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 Very interesting to see if the collapse of the governance of Transport for Edinburgh/Lothian Buses will go further than just the people nominally in charge - and take out one or two people at the Council. Might mean relief from the prospect of tram line extensions. http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/ian-craig-froze-out-lothian-buses-directors-1-3640878 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FWJ Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 Car broken down on south-bound approach to FRB a couple of days ago. Traffic backed up for a couple of miles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnar Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 Buses didn't cost ?1billion for one route So expensive transport systems are immune from breaking down / experiencing technical problems, even in their first running year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leginten Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 Very interesting to see if the collapse of the governance of Transport for Edinburgh/Lothian Buses will go further than just the people nominally in charge - and take out one or two people at the Council. Might mean relief from the prospect of tram line extensions. http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/ian-craig-froze-out-lothian-buses-directors-1-3640878 Ian Craig "spent ?269,000 on unbudgeted spending for brand launch of Transport for Edinburgh without consultation". Horrific. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FWJ Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 What mode of transport did the 90,000 passengers the tram claim travel per week use before the tram? They can't all have been car users! So all they have done is move the majority of its passengers from the buses. So what's the benefit? http://lothianbuses.com/news/article/passengers-flock-to-tfe Number of bus passengers up by 3 million as well as tram numbers exceeding expectations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Lyon Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 Still not enough new passengers to make any sizeable inroad into the debt incurred to provide the vanity project tram. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FWJ Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 Is every city around the world (some a lot smaller than Edinburgh) installing trams engaged in a 'vanity project' or just Edinburgh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 (edited) Ian Craig "spent ?269,000 on unbudgeted spending for brand launch of Transport for Edinburgh without consultation". Horrific. Utterly indefensible and clearly he will have to go. But the question is why Sue Bruce, Lesley Hinds and Andrew Burns are keeping him in post for now. What hold over them does he have? Edited December 22, 2014 by Coco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 Utterly indefensible and clearly he will have to go. But the question is why Sue Bruce, Lesley Hinds and Andrew Burns are keeping him in post for now. What hold over them does he have? Brown envelopes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.