Restonbabe Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 i dont think so. the tram is quicker to the west end than the 22 most certainly to haymarket. however the 100 will always dominate. strange decision still to build a tram in edinburgh when the infrastructure didnt want or need it. Being completely bias It could have rebuilt the other half of the borders rail link. from gala to berwick then from berwick to edinburgh, stopping at reston, grantshouse, east linton, dunbar, north berwick, drem, longniddry, prestonpans, wallyford, musselburgh, then either going to waverley or the suburban line stopping at newcraighall, morningside, gorgie, haymarket then waverley. just hope they see sense and continue this waverley line in a borders loop connecting up with civilization. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 It's always going to lose money unless the network is expanded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 Where will the money come from to extend this tram line? The council have already borrowed big time and it will take at least 15 years to pay that back. Before anymore rash fag packet decisions are made there needs to be the enquiry that exposes the financial failings that saw this last debacle spiral out of control. Then and only then should the council be allowed to investigate the exact costs of any extensions. They also need an end date for the loan on this existing partial line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 It's always going to lose money FTTY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimus Prime Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 It's a novelty at the moment. Yep they said that in the first week, 4 months later................ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 FTTY Perhaps. But if we don't expand the network it's guaranteed. We've went through the City Centre, eastwards. The difficult bit is done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FWJ Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 The Scottish rail network costs the Scottish Government 11pence for every passenger for every kilometre they travel. Maybe we should close all the railways in the country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 Yep they said that in the first week, 4 months later................ May 31st. Your not very good at arithmetic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FWJ Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 May 31st. Your not very good at arithmetic. His punctuation's ok though..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paolo Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 Is it still the case that they take longer to get to the airport than than the bus, despite the dearer fare? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 The Scottish rail network costs the Scottish Government 11pence for every passenger for every kilometre they travel. Maybe we should close all the railways in the country. In many places, especially rural areas, the railways are often either the only public transport system or by far the faster/cheaper option than buses. Comparing them to the trams is ludicrous. Edinburgh has one of the best bus services in the world and to have a loss making, city finance crippling toy town tram line running alongside it is madness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 In many places, especially rural areas, the railways are often either the only public transport system or by far the faster/cheaper option than buses. Comparing them to the trams is ludicrous. Edinburgh has one of the best bus services in the world and to have a loss making, city finance crippling toy town tram line running alongside it is madness. It looks nice for the tourists. So money well spent and it will probably take an eternity to pay for itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FWJ Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 (edited) In many places, especially rural areas, the railways are often either the only public transport system or by far the faster/cheaper option than buses. Comparing them to the trams is ludicrous. Edinburgh has one of the best bus services in the world and to have a loss making, city finance crippling toy town tram line running alongside it is madness. Well of course they're cheaper - they're heavily subsidised. And I can't think of any rural rail service in Scotland that is faster than a bus. They're both rail-based public transport systems. How many of them turn a profit, never mind repay their building costs? Do you think the ?300 million being spent updating the Glasgow Subway a waste of money? (It's only just over 30 years since it was completely overhauled). What about the ?16billion being spent on CrossRail in London? Edited August 14, 2014 by FWJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydug Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 So has there been any projections done on the cost of a completed tram network. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 So has there been any projections done on the cost of a completed tram network. I don't know but whatever it is it will probably be treble that amount once the backhanders are handed out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanks said no Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 Only a matter of time before the 100 bus timetable is dramatically reduced. Gutted when they do this as its a brilliant service to and from Corstorphine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 Only a matter of time before the 100 bus timetable is dramatically reduced. Gutted when they do this as its a brilliant service to and from Corstorphine. The strange thing is it has only recently went to a 24/7 timetable which I find unusual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 Why won't they release figures for the paying and non paying customers? Shouldn't be difficult! and "non/paying" is not clear either - if you already have a bus pass (I pay ?45 per month direct debit) you don't pay extra to go on tram but would be classed as "paying" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 Only a matter of time before the 100 bus timetable is dramatically reduced. Gutted when they do this as its a brilliant service to and from Corstorphine. Correct. The council recently released a statement saying that the 100 bus was guaranteed for at least 5 years......but nobody had asked them about it. What they meant was "we're taking it away in 5 years time, everyone get on the trams" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 Correct. The council recently released a statement saying that the 100 bus was guaranteed for at least 5 years......but nobody had asked them about it. What they meant was "we're taking it away in 5 years time, everyone get on the trams" already lost the x12 to Ratho though that was council funded at least First Bus have benefitted from trams in what I now pay to get to Ratho Station above my ?45 per month to Lothian Buses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 already lost the x12 to Ratho though that was council funded at least First Bus have benefitted from trams in what I now pay to get to Ratho Station above my ?45 per month to Lothian Buses Lothian Buses No20 goes to Ratho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le Tissier Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 Lothian Buses No20 goes to Ratho. Not true Slateford Asda to the Gyle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 Not true Slateford Asda to the Gyle Service 20 - Chesser (ASDA) - Gyle Centre - Ratho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunks Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 Bus wankers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimus Prime Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 (edited) May 31st. Your not very good at arithmetic. His punctuation's ok though..... You're not very good at judging future tram passenger numbers. Oh and it's "you're" not "your" btw. Thanks for YOUR input lads. Edited August 15, 2014 by Optimus Prime Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimus Prime Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 Only a matter of time before the 100 bus timetable is dramatically reduced. Gutted when they do this as its a brilliant service to and from Corstorphine. Correct. The council recently released a statement saying that the 100 bus was guaranteed for at least 5 years......but nobody had asked them about it. What they meant was "we're taking it away in 5 years time, everyone get on the trams" I'd say its unlikely there would be a dramatic change to the 100 service, it still serves as an important link for that sector of the city. What should happen is your passenger experience on the 100 should improve because of the tram with less congested journeys and smaller passenger numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 (edited) You're not very good at judging future tram passenger numbers. Oh and it's "you're" not "your" btw. Thanks for YOUR input lads. Your just being a **** because you were wrong. Edited August 16, 2014 by The Real Maroonblood Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimus Prime Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 Your just being a **** because you were wrong. Really, wrong about what exactly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 Really, wrong about what exactly? You said 4 months. It was a lot less. You can have the last word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimus Prime Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 You said 4 months. It was a lot less. You can have the last word. Thanks, 2 months, 4 months, 4 years, 10 years. Point is there's no novelty factor only public demand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolkeith Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 (edited) Optimus Prime. The tram's spin doctor. The nearest tram stop for me is about a 15 minute walk from my flat, so with plenty of buses on my door step, it's no use to me. I went on one the other week out of curiosity. My impressions were that it felt really slow travelling on it. Whilst it was comfortable, I felt it didn't have that much seating. I'm assuming to make space for suitcases, prams etc. It doesn't stop at that many places and a lot of the stops are not really close to heavily populated areas. As in within a 5 minute walk. really only benefits a select few people who may work at Edinburgh park. Of course it get's you across town quite quickly, but then that's only due to the limited number of stops. The X44 gets me into town from slateford in under 15 minutes because it's limited. Ultimately it's the biggest waste of money. Interestingly enough my retired parents decided to get the tram out to the airport. They mentioned when they went to get it back into town the vast majority of tourists were pilling onto the airport bus straight outside. And the tram they got back was pretty empty. Edited August 16, 2014 by Koolkeith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 Optimus Prime. The tram's spin doctor. The nearest tram stop for me is about a 15 minute walk from my flat, so with plenty of buses on my door step, it's no use to me. I went on one the other week out of curiosity. My impressions were that it felt really slow travelling on it. Whilst it was comfortable, I felt it didn't have that much seating. I'm assuming to make space for suitcases, prams etc. It doesn't stop at that many places and a lot of the stops are not really close to heavily populated areas. As in within a 5 minute walk. really only benefits a select few people who may work at Edinburgh park. Of course it get's you across town quite quickly, but then that's only due to the limited number of stops. The X44 gets me into town from slateford in under 15 minutes because it's limited. Ultimately it's the biggest waste of money. Interestingly enough my retired parents decided to get the tram out to the airport. They mentioned when they went to get it back into town the vast majority of tourists were pilling onto the airport bus straight outside. And the tram they got back was pretty empty. A complete waste of money. I'm surprised Jenny Dawes hasn't been elevated to the House of Lords for her contribution to this fiasco. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Lyon Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 The re-sequencing of traffic lights on that part of the tram route in the city centre (St Andrew's Sq to Haymarket is, in my opinion, causing delays to the bus services in the area. While waiting for a bus in Hanover St today I noticed at one point the lights at the junction with Princes St were at red for 5 minutes or more during which time a tram passed travelling west. This caused the traffic including 4 buses to be held up in Hanover St. The lights didn't stay at red for as long the next time probably because there was no tram due. If this is TFE's way of providing an integrated public transport service then I despair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lavrentiy Beria Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 The re-sequencing of traffic lights on that part of the tram route in the city centre (St Andrew's Sq to Haymarket is, in my opinion, causing delays to the bus services in the area. While waiting for a bus in Hanover St today I noticed at one point the lights at the junction with Princes St were at red for 5 minutes or more during which time a tram passed travelling west. This caused the traffic including 4 buses to be held up in Hanover St. The lights didn't stay at red for as long the next time probably because there was no tram due. If this is TFE's way of providing an integrated public transport service then I despair. Add in Waverley Bridge and Haymarket, more congestion more pollution . Great ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Of The Cat Cafe Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Used tram for first time last week - seriously underwhelming. On Saturday night I got back to the airport from London after 11 and went all the way to the tram stop only to learn they had finished for the night. I was not the only one who had to turn back to the bus. They could at least have put up sign where the bus stops. A plus is that you get a view of a great sports stadium from the tram. And Murrayfield as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Making money for rich people. All this about Council saying it will attract business along route. Maybe increase house prices so good for some. Usual big development. Maybe create some jobs. Anyway it here sucking money out of council services. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moshy Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 surely they will be ready for the scrapyard well before any loan is paid off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 surely they will be ready for the scrapyard well before any loan is paid off If we add the original ?50m of Council borrowing to the ?231m and apply the original assumptions for the interest rates on the ?231m the annual interest bill for Council taxpayers for the privilege of having the tram amounts to ?9.3m (c. 5% of all Council Tax revenue). This does not include the repayment of the capital sum (on a simple basis this can be measured at ?9m pa though obviously more complicated) nor the impact on other areas of Council spending. Forecast tram revenue is at ?7.9m pa. From that sum has to be taken the ongoing maintenance, power, wages etc. costs - and the negative impact on Lothian Buses weighed in - before Transport for Edinburgh can pay any dividend (!) to Edinburgh Council in return for the enormous loan subsidy. Utterly farcical budgeting and the people of Edinburgh will continue to feel the impact for decades in terms of lower school maintenance and other similar spending items. https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/215077/response/548588/attach/html/4/Review%20Reply%20EDIR%203774.pdf.html http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/500-000-edinburgh-tram-journeys-in-first-month-1-3468414 No doubt that the parasite consultants and the useful idiot Councillors will continue to press for more spending to go down the black hole too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 The coonsil are paying off the loan over a 30 year period.....nae danger will the trams still be running in 30 years time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnar Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Oh dear... http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-28978931 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
My Left Nut Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 (edited) Oh dear... http://m.bbc.co.uk/n...t-fife-28978931 Has to be the bus drivers fault looking at the pic Edited August 29, 2014 by My Left Nut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnar Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Has to be the bus drivers fault looking at the pic Yep, I've noticed a lot of bus drivers failing to check their wing mirror when moving into the bus lane there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
My Left Nut Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Yep, I've noticed a lot of bus drivers failing to check their wing mirror when moving into the bus lane there. You would think bus drivers would notice a massive tram in their mirror. Did a coach not hit a tram a few months back? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Are coach/bus drivers like the one involved in a collision under a lot of pressure to hit arrival times? The speed some Citylink coaches travel along the Glasgow Road and cross the Drum Brae roundabout is on occasion, out of order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
korf123 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 I get the 900 regularly between Glasgow and Edinburgh and the citilinks do travel at some speed quite regularly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertracoon Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Are coach/bus drivers like the one involved in a collision under a lot of pressure to hit arrival times? The speed some Citylink coaches travel along the Glasgow Road and cross the Drum Brae roundabout is on occasion, out of order. They'll be buggered if the cooncil makes everything a 20mph limit. You're right though, I reckon I'm a fairly laid back individual but the speed a lot of the Citylink buses do is ridiculous. Lot of late braking going on too which, if I was in charge of the company, I wouldn't exactly be delighted with either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paolo Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Once again, the flaws of only having one line, meaning trams can not be diverted, is exposed. Any incident, no matter how small (like the balloon issue last month) or bigger ones, like today, means the whole 'network' stops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dc-jambo Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 nothing to see here guys. just a fender-bender. Now move along ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 2 hours of chaos at Haymarket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighusref Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Used tram for first time last week - seriously underwhelming. On Saturday night I got back to the airport from London after 11 and went all the way to the tram stop only to learn they had finished for the night. I was not the only one who had to turn back to the bus. They could at least have put up sign where the bus stops. A plus is that you get a view of a great sports stadium from the tram. And Murrayfield as well. Just saw this. You say you were "underwhelmed" by your tram experience. Serious question, what were you expecting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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