Stuart Lyon Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Council trying everything to get its vanity project funded to Newhaven. http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/st-james-developers-may-bankroll-tram-extension-1-3451555 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FWJ Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 So the council are trying to get a cheap loan to bring the tram through a densely populated area in order to boost passenger numbers and help turn a profit. Good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ribble Posted June 20, 2014 Author Share Posted June 20, 2014 Hooray, that'll be leith walk shut for another 5 years! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regal Kingston Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 It has to go to Newhaven and beyond if possible. The tram only really serves people from the west going into town and those going to the airport. ?1billion for that is an utter disgrace. ?1.5 billion for something that serves the whole town would still be an utter disgrace but at least more functional. Don't see why laying tracks costs so much. Surely we can do it on the cheap? Just draft in folk from the dole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FWJ Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 As the article says, most of the preparatory work / utility diversions has been done, the track and trams are bought and ready to use and apparently track laying technology has advanced (presumably from lessons learned from all the other lines being built around the world). All that needs done is the track to be laid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chester™ Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 The tram gives you a more reliable journey time. Leaving town along Corstorphine Road at 5pm less so. I went along there before my holiday last week, at that time. Airport bus got through pretty easily and I've never had much of an issue at that time, on the Airport bus TBH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chester™ Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 As the article says, most of the preparatory work / utility diversions has been done, the track and trams are bought and ready to use and apparently track laying technology has advanced (presumably from lessons learned from all the other lines being built around the world). All that needs done is the track to be laid. And I refer you to my earlier post - I think this beyond 'hating trams'. This is, fundamentally, about a deep rooted mistrust in the local authority to carry out a project of this scale. Do you trust them not to **** it up again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_jambo Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Thanks for that, so I'm better (quicker) taking the bus than the tram. Crazy!! Free Wifi on the bus too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Guaranteed a seat on the bus too (I'll concede that you'll probably find an empty set on the trams as well, but only because they're mostly empty) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FWJ Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 And I refer you to my earlier post - I think this beyond 'hating trams'. This is, fundamentally, about a deep rooted mistrust in the local authority to carry out a project of this scale. Do you trust them not to **** it up again? Was there not some issue with an agency withdrawing and that's when things really started to go wrong - they were reintroduced and things progressed better. Perhaps if independent contractors were used to manage any further extensions? At the risk of this sounding like a petulant strop - what are we to do? It looks like the line will need to be extended to Leith in order to make a profit but people don't want any further works - so it'll continue to make a loss. Should the whole line just be abandoned - or should the council / Scottish Government try to make the best of a bad job? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2NaFish Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Guaranteed a seat on the bus too (I'll concede that you'll probably find an empty set on the trams as well, but only because they're mostly empty) Would the fact you're guaranteed a seat on the bus not also be because they are mostly empty too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Would the fact you're guaranteed a seat on the bus not also be because they are mostly empty too? To be fair the buses I have seen are pretty full. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridge of Djoum Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 No offensive t-shirts? GOOD....No Hibs, Huns or Cel*ic tops allowed then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2NaFish Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 (edited) To be fair the buses I have seen are pretty full. I was just interested in the strange paradox in cade's post. Unless the bus described is a rosa parks style effort where some people are guaranteed a seat no matter how busy. I actually ended up taking the bus when i got in from holiday last week. Was pretty full. Tried to take the tram. Fully aware it's more expensive, but wanting the experience. Couldn't pay by card as it had expired during the holiday. Only had a ?20 note and the machines don't take them, just smash. Asked the tram man at the machines if he sold tickets. No, said he. That's a bit shit, said I. I asked where the change machine was, noting that many foreigners may not trust foreign card machines and are unlikely to have ?6 in change. Back in the terminal, five minutes away, he said. That's a bit shit, i said. Do the buses take notes, i asked. Dunno, he said. You're a bit shit, i said. Needlessly grumpy from me, but now that the novelty has worn off before i even used it I can't imagine i'll bother using the trams unless they magically become cheaper and faster than the bus. The bus that was very comfortable, had free wifi and was fast. Edited June 20, 2014 by 2NaFish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 I was just interested in the strange paradox in cade's post. Unless the bus described is a rosa parks style effort where some people are guaranteed a seat no matter how busy. I actually ended up taking the bus when i got in from holiday last week. Was pretty full. Tried to take the tram. Fully aware it's more expensive, but wanting the experience. Couldn't pay by card as it had expired during the holiday. Only had a ?20 note and the machines don't take them, just smash. Asked the tram man at the machines if he sold tickets. No, said he. That's a bit shit, said I. I asked where the change machine was, noting that many foreigners may not trust foreign card machines and are unlikely to have ?6 in change. Back in the terminal, five minutes away, he said. That's a bit shit, i said. Do the buses take notes, i asked. Dunno, he said. You're a bit shit, i said. Needlessly grumpy from me, but now that the novelty has worn off before i even used it I can't imagine i'll bother using the trams unless they magically become cheaper and faster than the bus. The bus that was very comfortable, had free wifi and was fast. I'm not surprised the novelty has worn off with that experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 I was just interested in the strange paradox in cade's post. Unless the bus described is a rosa parks style effort where some people are guaranteed a seat no matter how busy. I actually ended up taking the bus when i got in from holiday last week. Was pretty full. Tried to take the tram. Fully aware it's more expensive, but wanting the experience. Couldn't pay by card as it had expired during the holiday. Only had a ?20 note and the machines don't take them, just smash. Asked the tram man at the machines if he sold tickets. No, said he. That's a bit shit, said I. I asked where the change machine was, noting that many foreigners may not trust foreign card machines and are unlikely to have ?6 in change. Back in the terminal, five minutes away, he said. That's a bit shit, i said. Do the buses take notes, i asked. Dunno, he said. You're a bit shit, i said. Needlessly grumpy from me, but now that the novelty has worn off before i even used it I can't imagine i'll bother using the trams unless they magically become cheaper and faster than the bus. The bus that was very comfortable, had free wifi and was fast. Did the bus give change? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2NaFish Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Did the bus give change? Couldnt tell you. They've got a little booth near the stop that I used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Couldnt tell you. They've got a little booth near the stop that I used. To buy tickets or give change? If the former it's odd they don't sell tram ones as well given they ate the same company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seymour M Hersh Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 I was told that the frequency of the Airport Bus had already been reduced. Can anyone confirm this? I always thought this would be a clowncil plan to force folk onto the white heffelump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Thought they had put more buses on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2NaFish Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 To buy tickets or give change? If the former it's odd they don't sell tram ones as well given they ate the same company. to buy tickets and then give you change, if needed. From what i recall the booth only seemed to be advertising the bus. there was no mention of the tram anywhere that i could see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Thought they had put more buses on? It's still every 10 minutes and it now runs 24 hours a day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 to buy tickets and then give you change, if needed. From what i recall the booth only seemed to be advertising the bus. there was no mention of the tram anywhere that i could see. Very odd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seymour M Hersh Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Thought they had put more buses on? Can't see that happening Dave. Waverley Bridge is 300 yards (or so) from the tram stop in St Andrew Sq. CI can only see them reducing the bus service to "encourage" folk onto the trams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willie wallace Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Just shouted at my first tram today[ no bad or insulting language used] .Was putting my elderly parents on at the Gyle and was trying to scan their bus passes or smart cards as they are known in tram talk[good luck with that mum and dad].There was another family struggling with tickets but the tram just pulled off. I thought that the conductor would be able to check the cards of oider people who maybe don't understand the system but apparently not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Over 200 fare dodgers fined already. Who would have thought people would do this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 200 people caught, no idea how many others got away with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 200 people caught, no idea how many others got away with it. How do they enforce the fines? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 They could pursue you through the courts for theft. Tram inspectors have cameras on them and take a pic of offenders to aid identification. Can;t wait to see what happens when people tell them to bolt for their ?10 fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FWJ Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 Fare evasion is a problem everywhere. It's hardly the trams fault. What should be done instead? Just have one door so you have to pay the driver - how much would that slow things down? Perhaps have a conductor on every tram to collect fares - how much would that cost and would it even be effective on trams of that length? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FWJ Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 They could pursue you through the courts for theft. Tram inspectors have cameras on them and take a pic of offenders to aid identification. Can;t wait to see what happens when people tell them to bolt for their ?10 fine. The ?10 isn't a fine it's the standard fare. If you refuse to pay it you can be fined a lot more (up to ?1000?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 Now that I've used them several times now my verdict is they are excellent. Build more lines as soon as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 Now that I've used them several times now my verdict is they are excellent. Build more lines as soon as possible. Edinburgh badly needs more road works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMac Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 Edinburgh badly needs more road works. You couldn't be more right! The roads are a disgrace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Lyon Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 My one and only experience to-date was about 2 weeks ago. I got on the tram at York Place with Haymarket as my destination. After it stopped at St Andrew's Sq for about 3 or 4 minutes we continued the journey which took 25 mins to reach Haymarket. It wasn't a particularly hot day but the tram interior was very hot and uncomfortable. I thought 25 mins for such a short distance was a bit long. I won't be rushing to use it again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 Edinburgh badly needs more road works. There doesn't need to be many more road works in the City Centre though. The quality of the trams themselves is impressive. Fee Wifi being fitted now. And also, all the staff I've dealt with have been top notch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All Gone Wrong Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 NO NO NO NO NO NO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimus Prime Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 Edinburgh badly needs more road works. Edinburgh badly needs 21st century transport infrastructure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 Edinburgh badly needs 21st century transport infrastructure. Of course it does. I think that anyone saying they would prefer to travel across the city on a bus rather than a tram is telling porkies, or hasn't been on a tram yet. It should extended to Leith immediately. All it needs after that is a North - South line. And from throse two lines, branches and loops could be added. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimus Prime Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 Of course it does. I think that anyone saying they would prefer to travel across the city on a bus rather than a tram is telling porkies, or hasn't been on a tram yet. It should extended to Leith immediately. All it needs after that is a North - South line. And from throse two lines, branches and loops could be added. Pablo it's refreshing to hear people who have changed their opinion and seen the benefits now that they are up and running. The extension's you refer to will come, hopefully lessons have been learned on the financial side of things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All roads lead to Gorgie Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 My one and only experience to-date was about 2 weeks ago. I got on the tram at York Place with Haymarket as my destination. After it stopped at St Andrew's Sq for about 3 or 4 minutes we continued the journey which took 25 mins to reach Haymarket. It wasn't a particularly hot day but the tram interior was very hot and uncomfortable. I thought 25 mins for such a short distance was a bit long. I won't be rushing to use it again. The bit coming in and out of South St Andrews Street onto Princes Street is a nightmare at times. The busses have wait for trams to exit the corner and if there are trams coming in opposite directions you can be waiting for way over ten minutes just to clear that one junction. Getting through the city centre on a bus is taking far longer than it did pre tram, however I do use trams to get to the Gyle and Hermiston Gate so it would be hypercritical to slag them off too much. I agree they are a sweatbox when the sun shines though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyjambo Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 My one and only experience to-date was about 2 weeks ago. I got on the tram at York Place with Haymarket as my destination. After it stopped at St Andrew's Sq for about 3 or 4 minutes we continued the journey which took 25 mins to reach Haymarket. It wasn't a particularly hot day but the tram interior was very hot and uncomfortable. I thought 25 mins for such a short distance was a bit long. I won't be rushing to use it again. They have no air conditioning and very small windows, thus making them very uncomfortable during the summer months Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seymour M Hersh Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 Of course it does. I think that anyone saying they would prefer to travel across the city on a bus rather than a tram is telling porkies, or hasn't been on a tram yet. It should extended to Leith immediately. All it needs after that is a North - South line. And from throse two lines, branches and loops could be added. Are you aware they are currently narrowing the road and widening the pavements down Leith Walk? There won't be room for buses and cars soon let alone adding a light railway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/tram-bosses-pay-5-8m-a-year-in-loan-interest-1-3509309 ?16,000 A DAY on loan repayments. How many passengers per day do we need to service that debt? Leisure centres, libraries, youth centres all closing down, the roads in ruins, staff out on strike all the time due to changes to pay and conditions.....and we're giving ?16,000 A DAY away to pay off a debt for a wee toy tram line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3fingersreid Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/tram-bosses-pay-5-8m-a-year-in-loan-interest-1-3509309 ?16,000 A DAY on loan repayments. How many passengers per day do we need to service that debt? Leisure centres, libraries, youth centres all closing down, the roads in ruins, staff out on strike all the time due to changes to pay and conditions.....and we're giving ?16,000 A DAY away to pay off a debt for a wee toy tram line. The figures quoted in that article are shocking and the bit that worries me is the interest rates at the moment are favourable , if they go up as they will could it bankrupt the city ? I've never been against the trams I just think the cost was/is too much Outside rush hour they're never what you could call busy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Lyon Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 Why won't they release figures for the paying and non paying customers? Shouldn't be difficult! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/tram-bosses-pay-5-8m-a-year-in-loan-interest-1-3509309 ?16,000 A DAY on loan repayments. How many passengers per day do we need to service that debt? Leisure centres, libraries, youth centres all closing down, the roads in ruins, staff out on strike all the time due to changes to pay and conditions.....and we're giving ?16,000 A DAY away to pay off a debt for a wee toy tram line. The council are a disgrace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunks Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 I use them a fair bit and at different times of the day. Usually pretty busy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 I use them a fair bit and at different times of the day. Usually pretty busy. It's a novelty at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 (edited) And the real cost of this farce is "THE city is forking out nearly ?16,000 a day to cover interest fees on the loan deals signed to deliver the tram project, the News can reveal. It means the Capital is being saddled with a ?5.8 million annual bill to pay off the interest on borrowing for the ?776m network before making any dent reimbursing actual loans. The cost of the interest payments was estimated at ?7.7 million a year in the business case for the trams - which would eat up almost the entire ?7.9 million it hopes to raise in initial annual income. But favourable interest rates since 2011 have brought that figure down by almost ?2 million in the current year." "Edinburgh?s trams will run at an operating loss over the next 15 years, according to the council?s financial projections." http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/tram-bosses-pay-5-8m-a-year-in-loan-interest-1-3509309 Edited August 14, 2014 by Dannie Boy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.