Edinburgh Trams Farce Continues

[Sheriff Fatman]

" as little disruption as possible" really?

 

Improvements in buses has always been an ongoing thing but what would we have had in terms of buses and services after spending on LRT as they'd spent on the tram ?

 

I'd also like to know why they chose to bypass the second most popular tourist attraction in the city ? Especially as they could've ran the tracks around a golf course a course they may now need to close due to financial restrictions

Let me reiterate I'm not anti tram I'm anti cost of the tram , a cost that has the potential to bankrupt the city and will increase that chance if the same set of chancers are in charge of future development

 

The cost over-runs are a scandal and people should rightly lose their jobs, and even be prosecuted if need be, over that issue. A lot of the other so-called major issues probably wouldn't rate a one sentence line in a page 11 article in a free newspaper if it wasn't for that one really important issue. People who are completely anti the trams (and in some cases public transport in any form) are using the financial issue to push any gripe they have.

[Boaby Ewing]

The route is amazingly shite. Saughton?

[King Of The Cat Cafe]

The route is amazingly shite. Saughton?

And what exactly is wrong with Saughton?

[Dunks]

The route is amazingly shite. Saughton?

 

It's great - stops right at the office

 

[Chester™]

Break in at the tram enquiry - inside job?

 

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/trams-inquiry-robbers-may-have-had-access-cards-1-3679333

[The Mighty Thor]

EDC finance bod expects private business to fund the extension down to Leith.

 

He reckons the developers of the St James Quarter will pony up as the tram would pass it.

 

here's a thought.....

[davemclaren]

Got the tram a few days back. They missed a trick not building a stop at the west end of prince's st imo.

[¼½¾]

Got the tram a few days back. They missed a trick not building a stop at the west end of prince's st imo.

They pulled a trick by calling the stop that's half way to Haymarket 'West End - Princes St'.

[davemclaren]

They pulled a trick by calling the stop that's half way to Haymarket 'West End - Princes St'.

True.

[Jeff]

Tram has broke down on the hill at st Andrews square. They attempted to tow it away and got stuck again. Traffic is hectic round York place

[IMac]

Tram has broke down on the hill at st Andrews square. They attempted to tow it away and got stuck again. Traffic is hectic round York place

 

I saw a bus broke down this morning and a car blocking a lane on the a702 at milton bridge.... I'll let you know if I see anything else.

[jimmyjambo]

Got the tram a few days back. They missed a trick not building a stop at the west end of prince's st imo.

Was on them on Saturday, totally agree, too far a gap between the stop on the Mound and  Atholl Place IMO

[Cade]

What happened to the Unimog the council spent hundreds of thousands on? Though that thing was supposed to be able to shunt broken trams with ease and get to the site of a broken tram in a matter of minutes?

 

The trams cause traffic chaos even when they are running due to them turning traffic lights green and disrupting the timings on major junctions. Haymarket is a joke at rush hour and the narrow part of Princes St at the waverly bridge junction is worse.

This entire project has been a disaster from start to finish.

[The Internet]

Tram has broke down on the hill at st Andrews square. They attempted to tow it away and got stuck again. Traffic is hectic round York place

 

This is the reason I've started going into work early, I would have been caught up in that nonsense if I'd left on time. Rush hour in Edinburgh can ****ing do one.

[Ron Burgundy]

Tram has broke down on the hill at st Andrews square. They attempted to tow it away and got stuck again. Traffic is hectic round York place

 Got on tram at York Place about 7am and after sitting for 5 minutes was told it's broken down. Had to get the bus which was mobbed because of the broken tram.They are not very reliable.

[FWJ]

http://m.scotsman.com/news/transport/extra-trams-for-edinburgh-to-meet-demand-considered-1-3872115

[The Real Maroonblood]

http://m.scotsman.com/news/transport/extra-trams-for-edinburgh-to-meet-demand-considered-1-3872115

Great news.

We can have another few of these ?400:00 cakes to celebrate.

[Cade]

?15million a year for 30 years to pay off the loan we took out to build the things......but at the same time it's losing ?500,000 or so a year even with better than expected passenger numbers.

 

Edited August 29, 2015 by Cade

[The Real Maroonblood]

?15million a year for 30 years to pay off the loan we took out to build the things......but at the same time it's losing ?500,000 or so a year even with better than expected passenger numbers.

 

Jenny Dawes thinks the trams are the greatest thing since slice bread.

[FWJ]

Some interesting questions here -

http://transformscotland.org.uk/blog/2015/07/13/questions-for-edinburgh-trams-inquiry-to-investigate/

 

Good to see as well that passenger numbers on Lothian Buses are also up.

Edited August 29, 2015 by FWJ

[Tott]

Jenny Dawes thinks the trams are the greatest thing since slice bread.

 

 

That the bird that used to keep the scores on shooting stars?

[tian447]

Used the trams in Gdansk for getting all over the city last week.  A 24 hour ticket (not just a dayticket that expires at midnight) cost me around ?2.20 and could be used on all the trams and buses.  They were around every 2 minutes for multiple lines, and even though they're old and a bit shit looking, the service is absolutely top notch.

 

I wish the trams in Edinburgh offered a similar way to go all over the city, instead of basically just up and down Princes Street, or the occasional jolly to the Airport, because I love the idea of the trams here, and love how modern and good looking they are, it's just not enough.  It's a shame we cut the original planned line, and spunked so much money on the straight line track we have.

 

I used the tram today to get from the Park and Ride into town, and the first thing I noticed is how slow they run, and how long they stop at all the stops for.  The trams need to be a bit faster and a bit more prompt at getting away from stops, because they will sit there for ages even after everyone has got on / got off.  Also, why do they always stop at Gogarburn, even though half the time no member of staff is getting on, or off?  Surely they could only just stop when they're needed?

 

Are there actually still plans to extend the lines, or is that just never going to happen?

[JamboX2]

Used the trams in Gdansk for getting all over the city last week. A 24 hour ticket (not just a dayticket that expires at midnight) cost me around ?2.20 and could be used on all the trams and buses. They were around every 2 minutes for multiple lines, and even though they're old and a bit shit looking, the service is absolutely top notch.

 

I wish the trams in Edinburgh offered a similar way to go all over the city, instead of basically just up and down Princes Street, or the occasional jolly to the Airport, because I love the idea of the trams here, and love how modern and good looking they are, it's just not enough. It's a shame we cut the original planned line, and spunked so much money on the straight line track we have.

 

I used the tram today to get from the Park and Ride into town, and the first thing I noticed is how slow they run, and how long they stop at all the stops for. The trams need to be a bit faster and a bit more prompt at getting away from stops, because they will sit there for ages even after everyone has got on / got off. Also, why do they always stop at Gogarburn, even though half the time no member of staff is getting on, or off? Surely they could only just stop when they're needed?

 

Are there actually still plans to extend the lines, or is that just never going to happen?

There are plans to extend. Part of this is to be funded privately through the st. James redevelopment.

[Cade]

As far as I can tell, anybody wanting to develop any site down Leith Walk is being forced to contribute to a trams extension fund that will extend the trams to McDonald Road then down to the foot of Leith Walk.

 

 

Just after they spent a year and god knows how much money on narrowing the pavements down the entire length.

[All roads lead to Gorgie]

 

 

I used the tram today to get from the Park and Ride into town, and the first thing I noticed is how slow they run, and how long they stop at all the stops for. The trams need to be a bit faster and a bit more prompt at getting away from stops, because they will sit there for ages even after everyone has got on / got off. Also, why do they always stop at Gogarburn, even though half the time no member of staff is getting on, or off? Surely they could only just stop when they're needed?

 

Are there actually still plans to extend the lines, or is that just never going to happen?

I think they are timed from control to wait for a set period to stop them bunching up at Haymarket and the west end where most people get on and off. It is a bit frustrating to hang around at stops and then just as it is about to move someone turns up and slows everything down again by pressing the door button.

[frankblack]

Any extensions to the trams should be paid for from the profits of the existing system.

 

If it doesn't make a profit then no extension. The clowns that run the council are unfit to make any more decisions on big projects.

[pablo]

Decision will be made on a Leith line in the next couple of months. It's increasingly looking like there's no option but to extend down through one of the most densely populated parts of Scotland. 5 million passengers in year 1 on the truncated airport line alone. Bit of foresight required.

Edited August 30, 2015 by pablo

[tian447]

See now that all the work on Leith Walk has been done, and how the existing system is already up and running, how difficult would it really be to extend?  Surely it's just a case of laying down the rails and putting up electric lines?

 

Hopefully work would progress much quicker.

[Stuart Lyon]

If they add more trams to cope with the alleged overcrowding at peak times how can they increase the speed of the fleet? Surely if there are  more trams there needs to be a long enough time gap to enable them to run safely. More trams will mean more priority changes for them at traffic lights thereby delaying road traffic and causing even more congestion.

 

The CeC are crackpots when it comes to their vanity project.

[Adam Murray]

See now that all the work on Leith Walk has been done, and how the existing system is already up and running, how difficult would it really be to extend?  Surely it's just a case of laying down the rails and putting up electric lines?

 

Hopefully work would progress much quicker.

Due to the recent widening of the pavements on Leith walk, I don't think the section from Pilrig Street down is now wide enough to accommodate separate lanes for both trams and other all traffic.

[The Real Maroonblood]

That the bird that used to keep the scores on shooting stars?

She'd be better on that because she was a useless councillor.

[Malinga the Swinga]

See now that all the work on Leith Walk has been done, and how the existing system is already up and running, how difficult would it really be to extend?  Surely it's just a case of laying down the rails and putting up electric lines?

 

Hopefully work would progress much quicker.

given the record of the council, I seriously doubt it will be an easy job. If anyone can make a botch of something, it is these jokers.

[pablo]

Decision announced later in the month? I'd love to see the line completed. Then have a serious look at a line South to the ERI.

[Cade]

Let's finish paying back the debt for the first line before planning anything else, eh?

 

The city is on its knees thanks to the repayments on this shite.

[pablo]

Let's finish paying back the debt for the first line before planning anything else, eh?

 

The city is on its knees thanks to the repayments on this shite.

It'll be paid off quicker if the line is taken to Leith. The trams being shite is also an increasingly minority view IMO. Anyway, we'll find out soon enough. Some vision required from the City leaders here.

[frankblack]

It'll be paid off quicker if the line is taken to Leith. The trams being shite is also an increasingly minority view IMO. Anyway, we'll find out soon enough. Some vision required from the City leaders here.

 

So, you think that by adding billions to the existing debt that the debt can be paid off quicker?

 

I take it you aren't an Accountant by trade?

 

I work down at Commerical Street area and the 22 bus service is sufficient.  Unless Leith Walk becomes a no-car area, then the time taken to get down to Ocean Terminal is going to remain the same.

[Nookie Bear]

It'll be paid off quicker if the line is taken to Leith. The trams being shite is also an increasingly minority view IMO. Anyway, we'll find out soon enough. Some vision required from the City leaders here.

 

It's not a minority view but there is no point reiterating it as it has been built. And I have never used a tram, despite living in Edinburgh and working in town.

 

Visions cost money.

[frankblack]

It's not a minority view but there is no point reiterating it as it has been built. And I have never used a tram, despite living in Edinburgh and working in town.

 

Visions cost money.

 

Likewise - I've never been on a Tram either.  I live in the Corstorphine area that is nowhere near a tram and work down in Commercial Street.  Even if the line was extended to my office it still would be useless to me.

 

I am totally opposed on more spending until the council has its finances fixed.  They are talking of big layoffs at the council, which must be due to debt repayments for the tram shambles FFS.  Increasing the council tax to cover budgetary incompetence is not a solution.

[The Real Maroonblood]

Likewise - I've never been on a Tram either.  I live in the Corstorphine area that is nowhere near a tram and work down in Commercial Street.  Even if the line was extended to my office it still would be useless to me.

 

I am totally opposed on more spending until the council has its finances fixed.  They are talking of big layoffs at the council, which must be due to debt repayments for the tram shambles FFS.  Increasing the council tax to cover budgetary incompetence is not a solution.

If the trams cost ?800m it'll take years to just break even.

[frankblack]

If the trams cost ?800m it'll take years to just break even.

 

If they had budgeted the project properly then they would have a line down to Leith already.  They blew the money and now can't afford it.  Its as simple as that.

[tian447]

I see the logic here.  If they extend the line, yes, it will cost more money, but also increase the usability of the service.  More passengers = more money.

 

It needs extended, because just now it's a wee bit shit.  It does the job, but compared to other cities that have trams, it's a poor offering.

[Cade]

We're paying ?15.5million per year for the next 30 years just to pay off the ?466million loan the Coonsil took out to complete the line.

The trams themselves are running at a loss, being subsidized by rising bus prices.

 

The city has had to move to fortnightly bin collections, has closed down several leisure centres, has crumbling schools and disgraceful road surfaces.

Staff are due to strike over the next round of job losses.

 

How in the flying feck does spending another ?500mil to extend the trams down Leith Walk help things?

 

Do people have any idea how long it would have to be running for just to break even on that amount of outlay??????

 

Edited November 3, 2015 by Cade

[Maple Leaf]

As an interested outsider, can anyone tell me if the trams have brought any peripheral benefits?

 

For example, has there been property development along the tram line that wouldn't have happened without the trams?  Any new businesses, which would have brought increased jobs?

[pablo]

As an interested outsider, can anyone tell me if the trams have brought any peripheral benefits?

 

For example, has there been property development along the tram line that wouldn't have happened without the trams? Any new businesses, which would have brought increased jobs?

Well Haymarket is on the up for sure, there's a lot of development activities in the area. Shandwick Place is beginning to look a lot better and there's been land re zoned for housing in South Gyle. It's only been running 18 months. People who use them love them.

[Mr Brightside]

As an interested outsider, can anyone tell me if the trams have brought any peripheral benefits?

 

For example, has there been property development along the tram line that wouldn't have happened without the trams? Any new businesses, which would have brought increased jobs?

Not sure if it has in Edinburgh but the feedback from Nottingham and Manchester is that trams have brought peripheral benefits.

 

I tend to agree with Pablo's comments that we need a more extensive tram coverage before the full benefits of a tram system will be realised.

[Mr Brightside]

We're paying ?15.5million per year for the next 30 years just to pay off the ?466million loan the Coonsil took out to complete the line.

The trams themselves are running at a loss, being subsidized by rising bus prices.

 

The city has had to move to fortnightly bin collections, has closed down several leisure centres, has crumbling schools and disgraceful road surfaces.

Staff are due to strike over the next round of job losses.

 

How in the flying feck does spending another ?500mil to extend the trams down Leith Walk help things?

 

Do people have any idea how long it would have to be running for just to break even on that amount of outlay??????

 

Suppose it depends on how many more users you get on the line for the additional ?500million. There are other spin off benefits such as a reduction in car users. I can imagine a lot of young professionals living in Leith who work in the city centre would use and extended line.

 

As an aside fortnightly landfill bin collections are to encourage recycling not a cost saving measure.

[FWJ]

We're paying ?15.5million per year for the next 30 years just to pay off the ?466million loan the Coonsil took out to complete the line.

The trams themselves are running at a loss, being subsidized by rising bus prices.

 

The city has had to move to fortnightly bin collections, has closed down several leisure centres, has crumbling schools and disgraceful road surfaces.

Staff are due to strike over the next round of job losses.

 

How in the flying feck does spending another ?500mil to extend the trams down Leith Walk help things?

 

Do people have any idea how long it would have to be running for just to break even on that amount of outlay??????

 

The trams are running at a loss currently for the first couple of years as was predicted, but at a lower level since passenger numbers are much higher than predicted. Numbers using buses has also risen (contrary to some predictions) and the council continues to invest in the latest low-emission types. I wasn't aware fares had gone up recently.

 

I'm not sure where the ?466million loan and ?500million cost of extension come from. I thought it was substantially lower than that?

 

Councils all over Scotland are facing severe pressures on budgets, not just Edinburgh. CEC seem to be laying down the infrastructure for the expected growth in population of 25% over the next 30 years. These people are going to have to get around somehow.

[frankblack]

Well Haymarket is on the up for sure, there's a lot of development activities in the area. Shandwick Place is beginning to look a lot better and there's been land re zoned for housing in South Gyle. It's only been running 18 months. People who use them love them.

 

All those improvements are effectively repairing the damage caused by the tram works that shut down many businesses on the route.

 

Haymarket is a Train Station, and has slightly improved from what it was.  It is still a bit shit that when you go through the barriers there is sod all to do other than go to your platform and wait.

[Stuart Lyon]

The cost of extending the trams is not justified in my opinion. The existing vanity project causes delays to other road traffic and pedestrians because of the preference it gets at traffic lights. Its vulnerability to disruption from vehicle breakdowns/accidents and incidents like the 2 or 3 involving the Scott Monument These highlight its inflexibility; at least buses can be diverted. It will be interesting to see what the second year passenger figures are since the novelty factor will have worn off. Then we have the hazard the rails create for the CeC's other passion - cyclists some of whom can't avoid falling off their bikes because of their presence.

 

Finally as another poster mentioned earlier where are the already financially stricken CeC going to get the money for an extension of the vanity project? The city is already desperately trying to save money and a couple of thousand Council employees face redundancy because among other things the City is hamstrung by the capital and interest payments on the Trams! 

[Optimus Prime]

Build it and people will come.........