bistokid Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 Based on.......... Stevenson being utterly anonymous in 95% of his games there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drylaw Hearts Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 Surely though that is what last season was for Robinson and Mcgowan, we either need to play them or get rid of them I like Stevenson myself but would hate to see him stop a bright young talent come through, maybe a bit extreme I admit but we have seen it happen with Charlie Adam and Stephen Dobbie in Scotland. I suppose my point is more about reserve competition. I don't think McGowan is a CM'er and I don't think Robinson is ready to play there week-in week out either. In the games he's played he's done plenty of running but very little with the ball. Stevenson being utterly anonymous in 95% of his games there. Is DP ready to make the step-up to SPL football ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bistokid Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 I don't think McGowan is a CM'er and I don't think Robinson is ready to play there week-in week out either. In the games he's played he's done plenty of running but very little with the ball. Is DP ready to make the step-up to SPL football ? Don't know. Would take a chance, he could barely do worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve123 Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 I don't think McGowan is a CM'er and I don't think Robinson is ready to play there week-in week out either. In the games he's played he's done plenty of running but very little with the ball. Is DP ready to make the step-up to SPL football ? This is not a go at you Drylaw, but how do we know till we try it Motherwell etc have been forced to play youngsters and has done them no harm I just can't help but think Stevenson with all signings come 1st September will be surplus to requirements would be happy to be proved wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamboinglasgow Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 I don't think McGowan is a CM'er and I don't think Robinson is ready to play there week-in week out either. In the games he's played he's done plenty of running but very little with the ball. Is DP ready to make the step-up to SPL football ? I disagree, McGowan's best position has been CM, but he is equally capable to play at centre back. Would agree that maybe Robinson is not quite ready for a regular start but I would like to see him getting game time next season much more then a handful times. I think JJ needs to figure out which youngsters he wants to give chances to and which he want to send out on loan, as it has been quite poor that in the past season and a half that JJ has been manager a second time only two players from the academy have had debuts, and that was only in the last match. I do think Ryan McGowan will feature more this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderstruck Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 To read some of the comments in this thread, you would think we never had a problem last season due to injury, suspension and loss of form. Any sustained challenge requires strength in depth and current/proposed signings only address shortfalls in squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drylaw Hearts Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 This is not a go at you Drylaw, but how do we know till we try it Motherwell etc have been forced to play youngsters and has done them no harm I just can't help but think Stevenson with all signings come 1st September will be surplus to requirements would be happy to be proved wrong I disagree, McGowan's best position has been CM, but he is equally capable to play at centre back. Would agree that maybe Robinson is not quite ready for a regular start but I would like to see him getting game time next season much more then a handful times. I think JJ needs to figure out which youngsters he wants to give chances to and which he want to send out on loan, as it has been quite poor that in the past season and a half that JJ has been manager a second time only two players from the academy have had debuts, and that was only in the last match. I do think Ryan McGowan will feature more this season. I'm pretty sure JJ/BB/GL are aware of what youth player is ready etc. Throughout his career JJ has never been shy at playing youth - but when he feels they are ready. As for McGowan.... In all the matches he played last the season the ONLY time he resembled a footballer was when he was moved to CH v Rangers. Other than that he was all over the place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve123 Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 I'm pretty sure JJ/BB/GL are aware of what youth player is ready etc. Throughout his career JJ has never been shy at playing youth - but when he feels they are ready. As for McGowan.... In all the matches he played last the season the ONLY time he resembled a footballer was when he was moved to CH v Rangers. Other than that he was all over the place. I am not doubting management team or you for that matter, however he has not signed a new contract unless I have missed something in past few days which is entirely possible I just reckon we need somewhere for the kids to go and if he is going to be a squad player then limits the chances , however thats me out as not arguing just putting across my opinion which you will se from my post count I don't do often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drylaw Hearts Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 I am not doubting management team or you for that matter, however he has not signed a new contract unless I have missed something in past few days which is entirely possible I just reckon we need somewhere for the kids to go and if he is going to be a squad player then limits the chances , however thats me out as not arguing just putting across my opinion which you will se from my post count I don't do often. Send the players on loan to lower league teams like we have been doing for the past few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve123 Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 Send the players on loan to lower league teams like we have been doing for the past few years. Seriously ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drylaw Hearts Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 Seriously ? Yep. It's better than the Reserve football we had previously. McGowan has been on-loan a couple of times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve123 Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 Yep. It's better than the Reserve football we had previously. McGowan has been on-loan a couple of times. I agree and we can go back a few years with players that have went on loan and returned and made it, however unless I am seriously mistaken I cant think of anyone within last year or 2 who has and again would be happy to be proved wrong. People on the board who watch youth players say there is some talent there I will hold my hands up and see I think I have seen them once I just think it is the whole idea !!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drylaw Hearts Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 I agree and we can go back a few years with players that have went on loan and returned and made it, however unless I am seriously mistaken I cant think of anyone within last year or 2 who has and again would be happy to be proved wrong. People on the board who watch youth players say there is some talent there I will hold my hands up and see I think I have seen them once I just think it is the whole idea !!!! If they can't make it at lower league clubs then they are hardly going to make it at Hearts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve123 Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 If they can't make it at lower league clubs then they are hardly going to make it at Hearts. Again and this time seriously I am out Stephen Dobbie we need to give them the chance, I personally think Ryan Stevenson come the 1st of September will be blocking youngster I hpe to be proved wrong !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drylaw Hearts Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 Again and this time seriously I am out Stephen Dobbie we need to give them the chance, I personally think Ryan Stevenson come the 1st of September will be blocking youngster I hpe to be proved wrong !!! Stephen Dobbie is very much like Paul Hartley - he floated around various clubs doing nowt and then after scoring a bundle of goals for QOS he got a surprise move to Swansea. And even they loaned him to Blackpool as he wasn't doing much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshp Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 I am not doubting management team or you for that matter, however he has not signed a new contract unless I have missed something in past few days which is entirely possible I just reckon we need somewhere for the kids to go and if he is going to be a squad player then limits the chances , however thats me out as not arguing just putting across my opinion which you will se from my post count I don't do often. Signed a contract a while back. Some of the chat here is poor, people wanting Denis in the team and they've never even seen him play! Stevo was top notch the last couple of months of the season. Mcgowan looks a great prospect, I liked him in CM and if he's composed at CH that's great too. He'll find his best position in time and that'll come with game time here, not more spells at a lower league club. He's done enough of them in his time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slfjambo Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 heres one player thats not signing for us ( thank fcuk ) Glory sign Liam Miller Friday, 3 June 2011 by Sportal Liam Miller Former Manchester United and Celtic midfielder Liam Miller has joined Perth Glory on a two-year deal. In the week they lost England striking legend Robbie Fowler, the Republic of Ireland international was confirmed as a significant overseas signing for Ian Ferguson's side. The 30-year-old will arrive in Perth, ahead of the Glory's friendly against Miller's old club on July 9. "I'm thrilled to be heading to Perth," Miller said from Scotland. "I have heard a lot of wonderful things about the city of Perth but football is the most important thing." In a stellar career to date, Miller has played for two of the biggest clubs in the UK and also had stints with Leeds United and Sunderland. Miller joins Perth Glory after spending the last two seasons in the Scottish Premier League with Hibernian. "I'm delighted to have Liam on board, "Perth Glory Coach Ian Ferguson said. "He is a quality player. "Liam brings a lot of experience to the club and he's played at a number of top clubs. "It's great to have a player of Liam's calibre at Perth Glory. "Liam is a midfielder who gets forward and he'll help us become a more attacking team than last season," Ferguson added. Miller, 30, made his international debut for the Republic of Ireland in 2004 against the Czech Republic and has played 21 games for The Boys in Green. Miller was also part of the Irish squad that won the UEFA U-17 Championship in 1998. Miller is the ninth new player signed by Perth Glory for the 2011/12 season. He joins Danny Vukovic, Neil Young, Evan Berger, Dean Heffernan, Adam Hughes, Travis Dodd, Shane Smeltz and Jesse Makarounas as new faces for the coming season. Official Hyundai A-League Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stanley_ Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Do Hibs have any players left? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special Agent Dale Cooper Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Ayev Graham Stack signed an extension I believe! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homme Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Stevo will have been kept on for a back up striker role just as much as a CM role. He'll be our 4th striker i think (barring injuries to other ST's) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mahgrassyshoes Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 To add to the Stevo vs Youth debate, as someone pointed out yesterday, if the youth are good enough they will displace a, supposedly, average player. Personally, I think Stevo earned his contract since Christmas and it won't be a problem having him about or block the potential for youngsters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Merse Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Again and this time seriously I am out Stephen Dobbie we need to give them the chance, I personally think Ryan Stevenson come the 1st of September will be blocking youngster I hpe to be proved wrong !!! Cases like Stephen Dobbie are an absolute rarity. If our youngsters are good enough, they'll play. Most of them aren't, no matter what people force themself to believe. I'm yet to see McGowan do anything productive in a Hearts jersey yet some will still rave about him for the sole reason that he is a youngster. In no way am I writing McGowan off, I haven't seen enough of him to do so, I just wish people would be honest about how a player performs and not pre-judge them because they are a youngster - and that works both ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 people are getting this the wrong way round - the young players currently are NOT better than their more experienced team mates, potentially they are or could be BUT they MUST be given the opportunity to see if they can fulfill their potential and become the better players many think they are or could be. IF we don't give our better youngsters chances then they will stagnate and unless they leave and play elsewhere they will NOT fulfill their potential or become as good as they might be. IF we don't take the longer term view and give game time and chances then the youngsters won't progress properly it's that simple - it's too simplistic to say if they are good enough they will displace the older players - not without some positive discrimination in their favour and regular chances they won't! In the absence of reserve league or a suitable number of loan opportunites at the right sort of club with the right type of coach then our young players will stagnate and all previous time, effort and money invested in them will have been wasted. There is no other choice - we either abandon these players and all the previous hard work invested or we risk playing younger players more frequently and give them better chances to develop even if that means we must risk some of the inconsistency of youth. The alternative is to go with ready made first team players and just forget about improving our youngsters until the SPL or somebody else sorts out a youth development structure beyond u19 level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eckauskas Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 If a young player is good enough to play for the first team, they will. It's as simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 If a young player is good enough to play for the first team, they will. It's as simple as that. Spot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 If a young player is good enough to play for the first team, they will. It's as simple as that. That's a bit of a simplistic assumption - unless the first choice player gets injured or suspended then an opportunity for a young player to play might not arise for weeks or months after the moment he's ready to take the next stage of continuing his development - or put more simply the opportunities for a young player to play depend a lot on random chance of getting an opportunity in the first team as opposed to there being any definite planned progression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosanostra Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 That's a bit of a simplistic assumption - unless the first choice player gets injured or suspended then an opportunity for a young player to play might not arise for weeks or months after the moment he's ready to take the next stage of continuing his development - or put more simply the opportunities for a young player to play depend a lot on random chance of getting an opportunity in the first team as opposed to there being any definite planned progression. What do you think the coaching staff do in training all day? They're constantly looking at who is best for every one of the 11 positions on the park. Do you really think a manager is going to persist with a player who is being outshone in training every day? No chance. Football is a results driven business and managers jobs are too valuable for them to mess about. If players are good enough, they're old enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamboinglasgow Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 That's a bit of a simplistic assumption - unless the first choice player gets injured or suspended then an opportunity for a young player to play might not arise for weeks or months after the moment he's ready to take the next stage of continuing his development - or put more simply the opportunities for a young player to play depend a lot on random chance of getting an opportunity in the first team as opposed to there being any definite planned progression. It also depends on what kind of manager you have. Managers have pressures on them, if they feel results are important then they will want an experienced team who are not going to make mistakes that could cost them points. Youngsters are going to make mistakes as they are still learning so a manager may feel he doesn't want them in the team as he tries to hold onto points. Thus a player may be good enough but because he hasn't got experience the manager is reluctant to play him, he may send him off on loan but that doesn't help unless you send him to a club willing to play the player and also he still has to make a step up to get into the first team when he returns. I do think it could explain why JJ chose not to play youngsters till the last game of the season, he rather put players out of position who had experience to gain the points, and so Hearts didn't lose points. However it was also a policy which was not producing great returns, so we finished third with a couple of points to spare as we ground out draws rather then manage to get wins. So as you say it is far too simplistic to say that if a youngster is good enough he would be in the first team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Wiseau Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 The 'Poor Man's John Sutton' has a new club. http://local.stv.tv/motherwell/sport/254551-motherwell-sign-michael-higdon/ He's the Sutton they get when they can't get Sutton. Also like how much of a company man you are, making us click on the link to find out which club he's signed for. You'll note that I have not blown it for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 What do you think the coaching staff do in training all day? They're constantly looking at who is best for every one of the 11 positions on the park. Do you really think a manager is going to persist with a player who is being outshone in training every day? No chance. Football is a results driven business and managers jobs are too valuable for them to mess about. If players are good enough, they're old enough. So without the opportunity to play and get experience how does a younger player get the necessary experience to become the better player? How does he develop further and improve? Managers frequently go with the more experienced players even if that means shoehorning them around out of position - it might suit their immediate requirements for the next game but it's not really the optimum long term solution is it? In any line of work there comes a time when trainees or apprentices have to be given opportunities in a live environment and do some real work - is it realistic to expect them to be immediately better than somebody time served? the obvious answer is no but then how does the trainee become better without the opportunity? how do you ensure a skills shortage is not inadvertently created unless you give the next generation their chance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosanostra Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 So without the opportunity to play and get experience how does a younger player get the necessary experience to become the better player? How does he develop further and improve? Managers frequently go with the more experienced players even if that means shoehorning them around out of position - it might suit their immediate requirements for the next game but it's not really the optimum long term solution is it? In any line of work there comes a time when trainees or apprentices have to be given opportunities in a live environment and do some real work - is it realistic to expect them to be immediately better than somebody time served? the obvious answer is no but then how does the trainee become better without the opportunity? how do you ensure a skills shortage is not inadvertently created unless you give the next generation their chance? I agree with all of the above. However, if a young player is better in training than an older player, I've no doubt the manager will go with whoever is best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambosr1985 Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Yoof lovers in panic attack-shock horror. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudi must stay Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 The 'Poor Man's John Sutton' has a new club. http://local.stv.tv/motherwell/sport/254551-motherwell-sign-michael-higdon/ straight swap I suppose. Higdon will need to improve his attitude though, there'll be no hiding place from him there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamboinglasgow Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Yoof lovers in panic attack-shock horror. Hello Jambosr, good to see you again. I didn't realise giving a counter point in a discussion is equal to a panic attack. Must find that brown paper bag before I go into a debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clerry Jambo Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 The 'Poor Man's John Sutton' has a new club. http://local.stv.tv/motherwell/sport/254551-motherwell-sign-michael-higdon/ Thank god! Do you think we will sign another striker, I think we need one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clerry Jambo Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 I think we're busting a gut to sort out the midfield first. After that, perhaps. Fully understand that Borthers, but I think we are still 1 short for upfront. Calum out for months and big doubts about big Kev. Could do with a pacey penalty box player, similar to Elliott We are now getting plenty of balls into the box but need a natural finisher in there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougal Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Surely if we need a penalty box striker then we should be looking at Rooney. Saying that, I think a quality playmaker in the middle of the park should be a priority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad-Stupid Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Sorry if posted already (cant be ersed reading the whole thread again) but I heard both us and Hibs have put offers to Rooney. Hibs offered ?200 a week less than he is on at ITC Also been hearing things from different people about O'Connor being offered a deal These are rumours mind you, I dont really believe them myself tbh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMc Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Sorry if posted already (cant be ersed reading the whole thread again) but I heard both us and Hibs have put offers to Rooney. Hibs offered ?200 a week less than he is on at ITC Also been hearing things from different people about O'Connor being offered a deal These are rumours mind you, I dont really believe them myself tbh We really, really don't need O'Connor we have Sutton and Kyle. Rooney on the other hand would be an absolute belter. Therefore I will choose to believe that we are after Rooney (even though it may well be sh!te.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simo Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Franny Jeffers is on a free.... Don't even joke about that!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winston churchill Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Also been hearing things from different people about O'Connor being offered a deal The two hibbies in our office are convinced he will be their big summer signing . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bert Le Clos Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Thank god! Do you think we will sign another striker, I think we need one I know this has been done to death, but I can't get my head around how you could be so against signing a player who scored 14 league goals for St Mirren, and yet happy for us to sign a huddie like Diamond?! Moving on, Hibs first team players having to look for clubs in America and Australia I fully expect to see Lewis Stevenson linked with a move to the Outer Mongolian "A" League, and Ian Murray seal a move to the Antartic Summer League. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winston churchill Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 I know this has been done to death, but I can't get my head around how you could be so against signing a player who scored 14 league goals for St Mirren, and yet happy for us to sign a huddie like Diamond?! Try and get your head round this.He doesn't even go to the fitbaw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disser Pointon Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Also been hearing things from different people about O'Connor being offered a deal:rolleyes:. You are correct but it is with Hibs not us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosanostra Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Imagine how good the club Christmas night out would be if we had Garry O'Connor and Ian Black at the club at the same time. It would be proper "reach for the lazers" time at that one. The comedown would last about a month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bert Le Clos Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Imagine how good the club Christmas night out would be if we had Garry O'Connor and Ian Black at the club at the same time. It would be proper "reach for the lazers" time at that one. The comedown would last about a month. Which is better than this season's Christmas come down. Hearts players must have been off their tits until the end of January, and had the mother of all come downs until May! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Bishop Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 2 from Steve Jennnings,Ryan Flynn,Morgaro Gomis and a striker. Also heard Andy Kirk could be on his way to the methadome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMc Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Imagine how good the club Christmas night out would be if we had Garry O'Connor and Ian Black at the club at the same time. It would be proper "reach for the lazers" time at that one. The comedown would last about a month. I believe the clich? you were looking for was "White Christmas". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bert Le Clos Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 2 from Steve Jennnings,Ryan Flynn,Morgaro Gomis and a striker. Also heard Andy Kirk could be on his way to the methadome. I'm greedy, I want Gomis, Flynn and a striker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winston churchill Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 I'm greedy, I want Gomis, Flynn and a striker. And a big dirty centre back who can head the ball and clear his lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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