New Lows!

[Tom Heaney]

Ha Ha!

 

This one had me a tad confused as well. Didn't realise that Woddie was an Irish freedom fighter.

Neither did he

[Pete Seeger]

I'll tell you what is embarrassing, taking my (of lapsed catholic ancestry) girlfriend along to tynie to use my dad's ST and having to try and explain why we're up to our knees in fenian blood...

 

 

I'm seeing a girl from a catholic background just now. I'm dreading taking her to Tynecastle tbh.

[Tom Heaney]

That's at the end is it not,Tom?Something you want to tell us?

 

Sorry,i'm taking the seriousness out of a half decent thread.Carry on folks....!

Im no so sure, From my recollections on hearing the song I'd say its the first verse and probably 2 or 3 lines from the end. But dunno how many more verses there are

[Boab]

Im no so sure, From my recollections on hearing the song I'd say its the first verse and probably 2 or 3 lines from the end. But dunno how many more verses there are

 

We'll leave it at that before someone prints the lyrics and has a good bit of Kickback singing along....or maybe not!

[SE16 3LN]

I feel we can take some positives from this thread and previous ones this week. So far we have debated racism re: Rudia Skacel song, sexism re: Andy Gray and now setarianism after last night. Suggests to me we have a pretty intelligent bunch of supporters, open to other peoples views but never afaid to express an opinion. Of course there are always ones with more extreme views but in the main we're not too bad.

[bobskeldon]

I feel we can take some positives from this thread and previous ones this week. So far we have debated racism re: Rudia Skacel song, sexism re: Andy Gray and now setarianism after last night. Suggests to me we have a pretty intelligent bunch of supporters, open to other peoples views but never afaid to express an opinion. Of course there are always ones with more extreme views but in the main we're not too bad.

 

 

Despite last night and a general sense of despair about a faction of our support, I genuinely believe that the majority of people who go and watch Hearts

are decent folk who simply want to watch their team and have no desire to offend or discriminate against anyone. But I also think that is the case with the majority of

Celtic, Rangers and Hibs fans too!

[Rudy T]

Jeez Bob, too go along with angry frustrated and surprised I think you should add na?ve to your list.

 

Have you never been to Parkhead before ?

 

I remember the days when we got that entire end at Parkhead - it was all standing ? and we filled it. John Millar winner anyone ? bedlam ensued, and there was more Union Jacks being waved than there is at the last night of the proms. Then the crazyness getting to the buses parked on the wasteland (not unique in Glasgow I know)

 

Times have changed we have a modern society, however not much has changed in the behaviour of our away support at Parkhead.

 

Seriously 8 pages of debate on the rights and wrongs and a letter to the club later and will it change the next time we go ? no chance.

 

I?m afraid it?s a bit like watching a TV programme from beginning to end with the sole purpose of complaining about it to Ofcom afterwards. My advice, don?t watch it and in this case just don?t go back to Parkhead and you'll be none the wiser if the experience rocks your sensitive world so much.

[John]

I'm seeing a girl from a catholic background just now. I'm dreading taking her to Tynecastle tbh.

 

why? seriously why are you dreading taking her to tynie?

 

i'm sure she knows that, theres arseholes in all walks of life,

[topcat]

Because they're bigoted arseholes

 

But bigoted arseholes have rights too.

 

There is a paradox beneath the surface of enlightened liberalism is summed up in the question "How can we be tolerant if we refuse to tolerate intolerance?".

 

Over the last few decades these bigoted arseholes have generally been driven into the closet, made to feel more and more that their behavious isn't socially acceptable, that they don't really belong, that they can only really behave as they wish in their own pubs surrounded by fellow like minded souls. In short they're effectively gay, not in a fancying people of the same sex sort of way, but in a stigmatised hidden subculture sort of way. If you'll grant me sufficient literary licence to extend this analogy the twice yearly trip to Parkhead is for these people like "Pride" is for the homosexual community. They can wave bright banners, enjoy songs that nobody else cares for and to stand up, even for one day, and be proud of being a bigoted arsehole..

 

It seems a shame to begrudge them that big day out. And just because they've been raised as bigoted arseholes do the rest of us really have the moral right to condemn their lifestyle choice.

[FTH]

Is that a question for me? If it is then I am a season ticket holder and have been watching Hearts home and away since 1961 and have not see much glory!

 

Was mostly just a general question/statement about something which irritates me, but it just happened that you brought up the situation suited to it. All our recent trips through to the Big Jock Knew Camp have all been the same from a Hearts fans and songs perspective so I'm a bit surprised to see any regular attendee taking offence to it this time in particular.

[The People's Chimp]

Do the posters who claim to be "on the wind up" when they sing these horrible hun-induced songs, sing this land is my land, and the fields of athenry when they attend Ibrox?

 

I think not.

 

Unfortunately the worst thing I find about being a Hearts fans is the small minority of cretins that follow the club.

 

What is sickening about "this land..." is how sellick have hijacked a classic american folk song.

[FTH]

And yet you seem surprised about the singing at parkhead? Have just got your hearing aids or something? I can't believe you have never sang hullo hullo

 

Just spotted this post, pretty much what I just replied as well.

[IMA MAROON]

People from different backgrounds brought together to watch Hearts.

 

Ruffians from the schemes have a different sense of humour to those other fans.

[bobskeldon]

Jeez Bob, too go along with angry frustrated and surprised I think you should add na?ve to your list.

 

Have you never been to Parkhead before ?

 

I remember the days when we got that entire end at Parkhead - it was all standing ? and we filled it. John Millar winner anyone ? bedlam ensued, and there was more Union Jacks being waved than there is at the last night of the proms. Then the crazyness getting to the buses parked on the wasteland (not unique in Glasgow I know)

 

Times have changed we have a modern society, however not much has changed in the behaviour of our away support at Parkhead.

 

Seriously 8 pages of debate on the rights and wrongs and a letter to the club later and will it change the next time we go ? no chance.

 

I?m afraid it?s a bit like watching a TV programme from beginning to end with the sole purpose of complaining about it to Ofcom afterwards. My advice, don?t watch it and in this case just don?t go back to Parkhead and you'll be none the wiser if the experience rocks your sensitive world so much.

 

 

Been going to Parkhead since the sixties, and you are right in terms of numbers. I would be surprised if anyone who knows me would agree about me either being or living in a "sensitive world". However, if you are suggesting that me

challenging behaviour, which in any decade is unacceptable, is driven by a belief or even hope that "next time" it will be different, then you are wrong. But there is value in challenge in itself, would you agree?

[Boab]

But bigoted arseholes have rights too.

 

There is a paradox beneath the surface of enlightened liberalism is summed up in the question "How can we be tolerant if we refuse to tolerate intolerance?".

 

Over the last few decades these bigoted arseholes have generally been driven into the closet, made to feel more and more that their behavious isn't socially acceptable, that they don't really belong, that they can only really behave as they wish in their own pubs surrounded by fellow like minded souls. In short they're effectively gay, not in a fancying people of the same sex sort of way, but in a stigmatised hidden subculture sort of way. If you'll grant me sufficient literary licence to extend this analogy the twice yearly trip to Parkhead is for these people like "Pride" is for the homosexual community. They can wave bright banners, enjoy songs that nobody else cares for and to stand up, even for one day, and be proud of being a bigoted arsehole..

 

It seems a shame to begrudge them that big day out. And just because they've been raised as bigoted arseholes do the rest of us really have the moral right to condemn their lifestyle choice.

 

I suppose that analogy would then extend to all walks of life,politicians etc!,which opens up the extent of the problem

[bobskeldon]

But bigoted arseholes have rights too.

 

There is a paradox beneath the surface of enlightened liberalism is summed up in the question "How can we be tolerant if we refuse to tolerate intolerance?".

 

Over the last few decades these bigoted arseholes have generally been driven into the closet, made to feel more and more that their behavious isn't socially acceptable, that they don't really belong, that they can only really behave as they wish in their own pubs surrounded by fellow like minded souls. In short they're effectively gay, not in a fancying people of the same sex sort of way, but in a stigmatised hidden subculture sort of way. If you'll grant me sufficient literary licence to extend this analogy the twice yearly trip to Parkhead is for these people like "Pride" is for the homosexual community. They can wave bright banners, enjoy songs that nobody else cares for and to stand up, even for one day, and be proud of being a bigoted arsehole..

 

It seems a shame to begrudge them that big day out. And just because they've been raised as bigoted arseholes do the rest of us really have the moral right to condemn their lifestyle choice.

 

 

Yes!

[rossthejambo]

 

 

 

[cosanostra]

If you can't cope with rubbing shoulders with Hearts neds, don't go to Parkhead.

The club, the SPL and the police are not remotely interested in dealing with them so what use is moaning on the internet?

Basically, until something changes, the neds are here to stay so either get over it and keep suppporting the team at away games or don't bother.

[johnjl]

If you can't cope with rubbing shoulders with Hearts neds, don't go to Parkhead.

The club, the SPL and the police are not remotely interested in dealing with them so what use is moaning on the internet?

Basically, until something changes, the neds are here to stay so either get over it and keep suppporting the team at away games or don't bother.

 

Good post.

[Hearts of Vladland]

If you can't cope with rubbing shoulders with Hearts neds, don't go to Parkhead.

The club, the SPL and the police are not remotely interested in dealing with them so what use is moaning on the internet?

Basically, until something changes, the neds are here to stay so either get over it and keep suppporting the team at away games or don't bother.

 

 

I agree with this plus football is working class sport so the 'neds' are wathcing the correct sport. If you want to take a moral high ground go watch cricket.

[bobskeldon]

I agree with this plus football is working class sport so the 'neds' are wathcing the correct sport. If you want to take a moral high ground go watch cricket.

 

 

Totally ridiculous is this?

[johnjl]

Totally ridiculous is this?

 

Hi bob, should the hearts supporters who sang the offensive songs last night be identified and banned?

[cosanostra]

Totally ridiculous is this?

 

Bob, no offence intended sir but if you don't like loudmouth English yobs, you don't go on holiday to Magaluf.

Likewise, if you don't like fat people, don't go to Florida.

One more time, just for good measure, but if you can't cope with neds and bigots, you don't go to football involving the Old Firm. The Old Firm are famous for their neds and bigots and our minority of neds and bigots likes to view the Old Firm neds and bigots as their hated rivals in their chosen fields of nedcraft and bigotry .

Nothing is going to change any time soon unfortunately.

[Spellczech]

I always wonder if it is the same people who sing these songs who aslo start the threads deploring the Celtic away support at Tynecastle. We are hypocrites with those threads until we can be above reproach at CP.

 

Sad but true - the element who were stupid enough to get trapped booing the dead Pope just keep on embarrassing the rest...

[Teuchterjambo]

people like you do my head in. i bet you're one of these folk that complain to the bbc when you hear a swear word before the watershed.

 

it is obviously lost on you and your do good mates but rule britannia is sung at parkhead to wind them up. pure and simple. do you ever hear this sung at tynie or anywhere else? nope.

 

if you don't want to hear offensive songs with expletives them put in far plugs or simply foot go.

 

and for the record i run my own business, have my own place and earn a very decent living.

 

Jeez oh - that'll make you a better person than us wage slaves then ! Some of the most despicable low life that walk the face of the earth run their own business and make a decent living not necessarily by legal and admirable means (not saying you fall into that category) but FFS don't use that line to justify what many people feel is disgusting behaviour. If you agree with the behaviour in question say so and try and justify the behaviour on its merit.

[The White Cockade]

I always wonder if it is the same people who sing these songs who aslo start the threads deploring the Celtic away support at Tynecastle. We are hypocrites with those threads until we can be above reproach at CP.

 

Sad but true - the element who were stupid enough to get trapped booing the dead Pope just keep on embarrassing the rest...

 

Spot on mate

It does my head in all this "Celtic are a vile institution" etc when we have people on here who are happy

for vile Hearts "fans" to sing vile songs

vermin are vermin whichever team they support

[cl1874]

I was refused entry last night (due to being accused of something i didn't do) so i can't really say first hand what the hearts support was like. What still surprises me though is people still getting shcoked and upset by the songs being sung last night it's nothing new at parkhead i personally do not join in or condone these songs. I also couldn't care either way about people singing them i go to parkhead and every other away ground to support hearts and i'm not going to let a handfull of people singing some dodgy songs upset me or stop me going to games.

[2NaFish]

I agree with this plus football is working class sport so the 'neds' are wathcing the correct sport. If you want to take a moral high ground go watch cricket.

 

Whilst i dont agree that terms such as working class, etc are releveant anymore, i have to say that football should be inclusive. The fact that it was a working class sport shouldnt play any role in what people should have to put up with.

[son of jerel]

I was refused entry last night (due to being accused of something i didn't do) so i can't really say first hand what the hearts support was like. What still surprises me though is people still getting shcoked and upset by the songs being sung last night it's nothing new at parkhead i personally do not join in or condone these songs. I also couldn't care either way about people singing them i go to parkhead and every other away ground to support hearts and i'm not going to let a handfull of people singing some dodgy songs upset me or stop me going to games.

 

what were you accused of?

[cl1874]

what were you accused of?

singing hullo hullo which i didn't i was standing near people singing it but they just started picking people out.

[Sterling Archer]

singing hullo hullo which i didn't i was standing near people singing it but they just started picking people out.

 

Were you the guy asking about legal process etc a few months back?

[Hearts of Vladland]

Whilst i dont agree that terms such as working class, etc are releveant anymore, i have to say that football should be inclusive. The fact that it was a working class sport shouldnt play any role in what people should have to put up with.

 

 

It shouldn't but it always will.

[cl1874]

Were you the guy asking about legal process etc a few months back?

nope not me mate not missed a game in over 3 years last night was the first bit of bother i've ever had.

[2NaFish]

It shouldn't but it always will.

 

Should we not atleast try?

[Sterling Archer]

nope not me mate not missed a game in over 3 years last night was the first bit of bother i've ever had.

 

No worries, someone started a thread about being charged with breach of peace up at Aberdeen for singing that. Wondered if it was you.

[johnjl]

Should we not atleast try?

 

By doing what ?

[Hearts of Vladland]

Should we not atleast try?

 

 

It depends what exactly you want to stop, if it is secterian songs they will hopefully die out like racism but if it is just people singing offensive song we would get nowhere.

[Bert Le Clos]

where did i say it was acceptable? i never said you should feel you shouldnt go to parkehead my point is surely BY NOW you know if you go to parkhead you are going to hear this type of thing from your own fans.

 

also i have never said anybody was better fans than anybody else.

 

if you want to talk about what i said then fine but don`t make up your own version of what i said.

 

I never directed it at you, I merely used your point to emphasize my own.

 

You said it has been going on since the 80's, so if you go to Parkhead you should expect it. By this I assumed you meant accept it and not complain about it?

 

I made the point that just because something has been going on for years, does not make it OK. Whether or not you agree, your post made it sound like Hearts fans should accept that certain sections of their support will choose to behave like neanderthals.

 

I also never said you said anybody was a better fan than anyone else. Already on this thread people have made comments along the lines of "at least they were there to sing songs". My point is that just because you pay money to watch your team, does not give you the right to sing these types of songs.

[Francis Albert]

I agree with this plus football is working class sport so the 'neds' are wathcing the correct sport. If you want to take a moral high ground go watch cricket.

 

 

I think I just felt generations of genuinely working class supporters spinning in their graves. I suspect most of the "neds" haven't done a proper day's work in their lives.

[johnjl]

I never directed it at you, I merely used your point to emphasize my own.

 

You said it has been going on since the 80's, so if you go to Parkhead you should expect it. By this I assumed you meant accept it and not complain about it?

 

I made the point that just because something has been going on for years, does not make it OK. Whether or not you agree, your post made it sound like Hearts fans should accept that certain sections of their support will choose to behave like neanderthals.

 

I also never said you said anybody was a better fan than anyone else. Already on this thread people have made comments along the lines of "at least they were there to sing songs". My point is that just because you pay money to watch your team, does not give you the right to sing these types of songs.

 

Fair points. I was a wee bit wound up earlier. Goodness knows why.

 

What do you think should be done to improve things then?

[Gambo]

TBH i thought the 'unpleasent songs' were quite muted last night. A few kept trying to get them going but with no real succes. I have heard it a lot worse at Parkhead.

 

Overall i thought there was good 'backing for the team', even when getting beat.

 

Hearts fans are now learning to 'ignore' the element who just want to turn up for the last night of the proms and there sing songs quickly fade out or are taken over by footballing songs.

[Hearts of Vladland]

I think I just felt generations of genuinely working class supporters spinning in their graves. I suspect most of the "neds" haven't done a proper day's work in their lives.

 

 

Like the ones in the 80s which sung sectarian song to? Yes, they will be raging that the songs they sung and being aired again.

[Zibi]

We were two down at Parkhead and because we had a larger following than normal the party tunes come out. I can't believe people are actually shocked or even offended by this.

 

The songs were entirely preditable and ones which we have heard so many times before.

[2NaFish]

It depends what exactly you want to stop, if it is secterian songs they will hopefully die out like racism but if it is just people singing offensive song we would get nowhere.

 

You can keep hoping. I'll do something to oppose it. Most people seem to oppose it, yet ignore it. Clearly hoping does very little.

[Bert Le Clos]

Fair points. I was a wee bit wound up earlier. Goodness knows why.

 

What do you think should be done to improve things then?

 

I have in the past, and I would again have a word with another Hearts fan if I felt what they were saying was out of order.

 

I did this a few years back at Tynecastle when a couple of youngish looking lads were calling Nakamura an, ahem "Chinese" **** and telling him to go bring them some ******* tea. These lads didn't even seem to know that Nakamura wasn't even Chinese, and when I told them to cut it out they did. If it's only a couple of people then someone, or a group of people should tell them to cut it out or report it.

 

The boys in question stopped when I spoke to them, although possibly more out of embarassment for making such a major arse of themselves! And I think most people would stop if spoken to by "one of their own" so to speak.

 

If it's too many people for Hearts fans to deal with, then simply use camera evidence and ban them. It may seem harsh, but I don't buy it that you have to either accept it or not go to watch Hearts play Celtic. No progress would ever get made against any sort of predjudice if this was the attitude adopted by everyone.

 

It would make it more understandable (but no less acceptable) if these were people who followed Hearts week in week out, but as had already been said it seems a lot of them only come out the woodwork to get their jollies singing abuse at Celtic fans. If they only choose to go to Hearts v Celtic fine, I don't make every game. But don't go along just to scream offensive songs, go to support the team.

[johnjl]

I have in the past, and I would again have a word with another Hearts fan if I felt what they were saying was out of order.

 

I did this a few years back at Tynecastle when a couple of youngish looking lads were calling Nakamura an, ahem "Chinese" **** and telling him to go bring them some ******* tea. These lads didn't even seem to know that Nakamura wasn't even Chinese, and when I told them to cut it out they did. If it's only a couple of people then someone, or a group of people should tell them to cut it out or report it.

 

The boys in question stopped when I spoke to them, although possibly more out of embarassment for making such a major arse of themselves! And I think most people would stop if spoken to by "one of their own" so to speak.

 

If it's too many people for Hearts fans to deal with, then simply use camera evidence and ban them. It may seem harsh, but I don't buy it that you have to either accept it or not go to watch Hearts play Celtic. No progress would ever get made against any sort of predjudice if this was the attitude adopted by everyone.

 

It would make it more understandable (but no less acceptable) if these were people who followed Hearts week in week out, but as had already been said it seems a lot of them only come out the woodwork to get their jollies singing abuse at Celtic fans. If they only choose to go to Hearts v Celtic fine, I don't make every game. But don't go along just to scream offensive songs, go to support the team.

 

Good you had the nuts to speak out about something that offended you then and there but most fans have a reluctance to do so.

 

Using camera evidence is certainly an option but how far do you actually take this? I tried to open this up for debate earlier but bob wasn't interested. What I mean is do you ban people for singing the famine song? I would presume yes. Do you ban people for singing the hibees are gay song? Do you ban people for shouting beast at mcgregor?

 

Do you see where I'm coming from? It's easy to start banning folk but where does it stop.

[Bert Le Clos]

Using camera evidence is certainly an option but how far do you actually take this? I tried to open this up for debate earlier but bob wasn't interested. What I mean is do you ban people for singing the famine song? I would presume yes. Do you ban people for singing the hibees are gay song? Do you ban people for shouting beast at mcgregor?

 

Do you see where I'm coming from? It's easy to start banning folk but where does it stop.

 

Agreed, it's not easy.

 

I would suggest you could only ban people if it could be proven they were singing things which can be proven to be racial abuse, sectarian abuse etc. Regardless of it being in bad taste, it's no illegal to refer to somebody being gay, true or otherwise.

 

Stewards and police should also be able to report someone if they eject them from the ground for breaking the law. But given our treatment at the hands of Glasgow's finest on occasion we would maybe end up without a travelling support!

 

I genuinely feel it needs to come from within the club. If Hearts, and Hearts supporters refuse to tolerate it, then perhaps it can be eradicated. Fortunately it's mostly youngsters, who will hopefully grow out of it. But they, like any other young people look up to and mimic those older than them. It's these people who need to be targetted by the club if it's to stop. The people in their 30's, 40's and 50's who still spout the shit.

 

Fortunately racial abuse of blacks seems to be almost eradicated from our game, hopefully abuse on grounds of religion will follow. I don't consider myself one of the PC brigade, I thought the "Offended by everything, ashamed of nothing" banner was tremendous when Celtic came to Tynecastle. I just despair when Hearts fans stoop to the level of one half of the OF to get a rise out of the other. The vast majority of Hearts fans agree that the OF and the catholic/prodestant shit that goes with them is bad for Scottish football, so I can't understand why I should be expected to accept that we will mimic one half of them when we play the other.

 

We're better than both.

[johnjl]

Agreed, it's not easy.

 

I would suggest you could only ban people if it could be proven they were singing things which can be proven to be racial abuse, sectarian abuse etc. Regardless of it being in bad taste, it's no illegal to refer to somebody being gay, true or otherwise.

 

Stewards and police should also be able to report someone if they eject them from the ground for breaking the law. But given our treatment at the hands of Glasgow's finest on occasion we would maybe end up without a travelling support!

 

I genuinely feel it needs to come from within the club. If Hearts, and Hearts supporters refuse to tolerate it, then perhaps it can be eradicated. Fortunately it's mostly youngsters, who will hopefully grow out of it. But they, like any other young people look up to and mimic those older than them. It's these people who need to be targetted by the club if it's to stop. The people in their 30's, 40's and 50's who still spout the shit.

 

Fortunately racial abuse of blacks seems to be almost eradicated from our game, hopefully abuse on grounds of religion will follow. I don't consider myself one of the PC brigade, I thought the "Offended by everything, ashamed of nothing" banner was tremendous when Celtic came to Tynecastle. I just despair when Hearts fans stoop to the level of one half of the OF to get a rise out of the other. The vast majority of Hearts fans agree that the OF and the catholic/prodestant shit that goes with them is bad for Scottish football, so I can't understand why I should be expected to accept that we will mimic one half of them when we play the other.

 

We're better than both.

 

 

Racial abuse has been eradicated from our game due to a seismic shift in society as a whole. Lots of folk took plaudits for ridding our game of racism but without a huge change of attitude throughout the whole of the uk I doubt this would have been possible.

 

Bigotry is the same. Until those mainly responsible ( old firm fans ) are brought to task I doubt whether anything will actually change. In short the authorities need to sort out the root of the problem.

 

As for hearts, apart from a few tannoy announcements and some token bans I can't remember them actually doing anything about it. I mean you have 17000 at a hearts Celtic game and 3 or 4 hundred Celtic fans start singing the praises of an outlawed terrorist organisation. What happens? Nothing. You can't then start chucking hearts fans out for similair stuff because everyone in the ground needs to be treated in the same way.

 

I honestly don't see any solution until the sfa and other authorities start to treat the problem seriously which in my opinion will never happen because rangers and Celtic hold so much power in the game.

 

So by all means bring those singing bigoted songs or infdulging in socially unacceptable behaviour to task by having a word. Unfortunately from what I have seen you will be largely on your own.

[henry]

I can't wait for the next game against the timothy, we will have another 9 page

thread saying the same things that was said the last time and the time before that.

 

What a hoot - go to the biggest game of the season and instead of talking about the important

matters of the day like how eggy was too easily beaten for opening goal and maybe how Kello

should have done a bit better, instead people go on about this rubbish.

[johnjl]

I can't wait for the next game against the timothy, we will have another 9 page

thread saying the same things that was said the last time and the time before that.

 

What a hoot - go to the biggest game of the season and instead of talking about the important

matters of the day like how eggy was too easily beaten for opening goal and maybe how Kello

should have done a bit better, instead people go on about this rubbish.

 

It's hardly a hoot but you can guarantee that this thread will be repeated over and over again and absolutely nothing will change. I agree.