The People's Chimp Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 TBH the mods could do everyone a favour and lock this sh** down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Treasurer Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 No, you assume that I am a touchy feely, do gooder, tree hugging, social work 'type'! Why? You display all the hallmarks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossthejambo Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 TBH the mods could do everyone a favour and lock this sh** down. Indeed, it's just going round in circles now. PS you don't need to start out shit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 I like to think I'm a fairly intelligent person but I've read this rambling post 2 or 3 times and I've got no idea what the hell it's meant to be that I'm supposed to give an answer to. It is a bit rambling and incoherent so you might need to be more than "fairly" intelligent to decode it. It seems to me that the question is along the lines of. Do you endorse people who've been hurt and/or upset by child abuse being upset further by having their ordeal sung about at football matches? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The People's Chimp Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Indeed, it's just going round in circles now. PS you don't need to start out shit Shit, that's awesome. Swearing outside of the pub. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobskeldon Posted January 28, 2011 Author Share Posted January 28, 2011 I like to think I'm a fairly intelligent person but I've read this rambling post 2 or 3 times and I've got no idea what the hell it's meant to be that I'm supposed to give an answer to. OK. You stated very clearly that agree that wordse.g. calling someone names CAN upset them (lets put 'hurt' aside for the moment). I therefore assume that you would agree that children CAN be upset. My question is very simple I assume you accept that there would have been/ may have been children wearing maroon and green scarves who may have been or are the victims of child sexual abuse at the Celtic v Hearts match. So do you think it is OK to sing songs which you KNOW could/may/might/would upset these children. It is a straight YES it's OK to "upset" children or it's NOT? If you think it is OK, say this in very clear and unequivocal terms e.g. I think it is Ok to sing songs which "upset" children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bilel Mohsni Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Treasurer Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Do you really think that debating whether children who are the victims of child sexual abuse should be subjected to 'banter' or 'wind ups' which "upsets, or humiliates or frightens" them is pedantic? You would be better providing your opinion on whether singing songs in the knowledge that children may be upset, or humiliated or frightened by that song is right or wrong! I would have thought that the victims of such crimes would have bigger issues to deal with than a group of football fans singing random songs directed not at them but at the animals that committed those crimes. Out of interest do you also condemn the people that stand outside courtrooms and hurl VERBAL abuse at prison vans carrying convicted child molesters as their victims may well be watching and could be upset by some of the words used Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobskeldon Posted January 28, 2011 Author Share Posted January 28, 2011 You display all the hallmarks Because I challenge people who think the issue of child sexual abuse is a laugh to 'wind up' Celtic fans! I am beginning to think I am getting automated responses now, surely this is not a human one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 OK. You stated very clearly that agree that wordse.g. calling someone names CAN upset them (lets put 'hurt' aside for the moment). I therefore assume that you would agree that children CAN be upset. My question is very simple I assume you accept that there would have been/ may have been children wearing maroon and green scarves who may have been or are the victims of child sexual abuse at the Celtic v Hearts match. So do you think it is OK to sing songs which you KNOW could/may/might/would upset these children. It is a straight YES it's OK to "upset" children or it's NOT? If you think it is OK, say this in very clear and unequivocal terms e.g. I think it is Ok to sing songs which "upset" children. That was your attempt to be less rambling? Have you tried decaf' ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobskeldon Posted January 28, 2011 Author Share Posted January 28, 2011 That was your attempt to be less rambling? Have you tried decaf' ? What is your view though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Treasurer Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 OK. You stated very clearly that agree that wordse.g. calling someone names CAN upset them (lets put 'hurt' aside for the moment). I therefore assume that you would agree that children CAN be upset. My question is very simple I assume you accept that there would have been/ may have been children wearing maroon and green scarves who may have been or are the victims of child sexual abuse at the Celtic v Hearts match. So do you think it is OK to sing songs which you KNOW could/may/might/would upset these children. It is a straight YES it's OK to "upset" children or it's NOT? If you think it is OK, say this in very clear and unequivocal terms e.g. I think it is Ok to sing songs which "upset" children. I think I've answered this question in my last post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Treasurer Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 OK. You stated very clearly that agree that wordse.g. calling someone names CAN upset them (lets put 'hurt' aside for the moment). I therefore assume that you would agree that children CAN be upset. My question is very simple I assume you accept that there would have been/ may have been children wearing maroon and green scarves who may have been or are the victims of child sexual abuse at the Celtic v Hearts match. So do you think it is OK to sing songs which you KNOW could/may/might/would upset these children. It is a straight YES it's OK to "upset" children or it's NOT? If you think it is OK, say this in very clear and unequivocal terms e.g. I think it is Ok to sing songs which "upset" children. I think I've answered this question in my last post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The People's Chimp Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 That was your attempt to be less rambling? Have you tried decaf' ? I think he has red bull on a drip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnjl Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 so where does it end is the obvious next question. for instance on Saturday you had several hundred jambos shouting "beast" at alan mcgregor who, incidentally, has not been convicted of any sex crimes. do you try to ban these people individually. it`s easy to start these things but i am questioning where it would end. bob, instead of trying to "outclever" your fellow jkb members why not sink your teeth into the above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobskeldon Posted January 28, 2011 Author Share Posted January 28, 2011 I think I've answered this question in my last post So you do not think it is wrong. That is clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobskeldon Posted January 28, 2011 Author Share Posted January 28, 2011 bob, instead of trying to "outclever" your fellow jkb members why not sink your teeth into the above. Sinking my teeth as I write, Anyone who sings songs or shouts anything relating to issues which may frighten or upset or hurt children and/or families or who sing songs which are sectarian or racist or homophobic should be banned AND the FIFA, UEFA, SFA, SPL, Hearts etc all agree. Do you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnjl Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Sinking my teeth as I write, Anyone who sings songs or shouts anything relating to issues which may frighten or upset or hurt children and/or families or who sing songs which are sectarian or racist or homophobic should be banned AND the FIFA, UEFA, SFA, SPL, Hearts etc all agree. Do you? I broadly agree bob, but as i am trying to explain i do have some reservations about the practicalities of it all. Now i have answered all your questions bob can you do me the courtesy of answering mine. it would help establish, in my mind, just how often these rules can be practically enforced. firstly, should everyone who was chanting "beast" at mcgregor be identified and banned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 What is your view though? I wasn't there so I can't comment on this particular case! In 1891 Oscar Wilde said "There is no such thing as a moral or an immoral book. Books are well written or badly written." I tend to agree I do think that making jokes about child abuse can indeed be acceptable. The work of Gerry Sadowitz, Jim Jeffries and Frankie Boyle include lots of great examples and the "Shut your ****ing face uncle ****er" song from the Southpark movie is one of the great moments in the history of cinema. If art is good enough then the content is never inappropriate. The corollary is that the more sensitve the topic the better the art has to be. If you're going to write "Harold Shipman, The musical" then your going to have to come up with some cracking tunes. Looking at examples closer to home I thought the old "Oh the hibees are gay" song was puerile, homophobic rubbish that made me cringe slightly. Put the same lyrics to the White Stripes classic riff and it becomes an utter classic and I'll happily sing along, the fact that it's indellibly associated with the 4-0 semifinal helps too. It's not sung so much these days because it's not quite as funny anymore but like the parrot sketch or stairway to heaven it'll never go away. Similarly the reason "Hello, Hello" remains in the repertoire while other songs with similarly objectionable lyrics have fallen into disuse is because "Marching through Georgia" is a brilliant tune that's easy to sing *. The other songs that I remember from the bad old days of 80s (like the sash and that one about the soldier of the UDA or something) were pish and got dropped as attitudes changed. * This shouldn't be taken as an endorsement of burning Atlanta to the ground, either during the civil war or at any point in the future, nor should it be taken as an endorsment of Russia's recent military expedition into the Caucasian republic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Heaney Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Sinking my teeth as I write, Anyone who sings songs or shouts anything relating to issues which may frighten or upset or hurt children and/or families or who sing songs which are sectarian or racist or homophobic should be banned AND the FIFA, UEFA, SFA, SPL, Hearts etc all agree. Do you? Jeez Bob, give it a rest. I think we all know how it is now with you, even though you go around in circles a wee bit. You have shared your wee note to the club with us all. Many of us have indulged you wna had some reasoned debate with you. Now its time for you to go have a lie doon, wait on yer answer from Mr Southern and share it with us if you feel it fits in with what you want to hear. I just hope I'm not in earshot of you tomorrow dunno if I could go another 90 mins of this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The People's Chimp Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Sinking my teeth as I write, Anyone who sings songs or shouts anything relating to issues which may frighten or upset or hurt children and/or families or who sing songs which are sectarian or racist or homophobic should be banned AND the FIFA, UEFA, SFA, SPL, Hearts etc all agree. Do you? No. During a game someone might shout "you are a ******* **** ref." A child may hear this and be upset and frightened. I don't think that person should be banned. Does singing "aiden mcgeady, got shagged by a priest" mean someone should be banned because a hypothetical victim of abuse might be upset? The answer, to me, is no. Football is sanitised enough without bringing in your approach above. You're talking about frightening families...tbh families shouldn't be going to ipox/the piggery unless they are happy to have their children's ears polluted. And that's the way it should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The People's Chimp Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 I wasn't there so I can't comment on this particular case! In 1891 Oscar Wilde said "There is no such thing as a moral or an immoral book. Books are well written or badly written." I tend to agree I do think that making jokes about child abuse can indeed be acceptable. The work of Gerry Sadowitz, Jim Jeffries and Frankie Boyle include lots of great examples and the "Shut your ****ing face uncle ****er" song from the Southpark movie is one of the great moments in the history of cinema. If art is good enough then the content is never inappropriate. The corollary is that the more sensitve the topic the better the art has to be. If you're going to write "Harold Shipman, The musical" then your going to have to come up with some cracking tunes. Looking at examples closer to home I thought the old "Oh the hibees are gay" song was puerile, homophobic rubbish that made me cringe slightly. Put the same lyrics to the White Stripes classic riff and it becomes an utter classic and I'll happily sing along, the fact that it's indellibly associated with the 4-0 semifinal helps too. It's not sung so much these days because it's not quite as funny anymore but like the parrot sketch or stairway to heaven it'll never go away. Similarly the reason "Hello, Hello" remains in the repertoire while other songs with similarly objectionable lyrics have fallen into disuse is because "Marching through Georgia" is a brilliant tune that's easy to sing *. The other songs that I remember from the bad old days of 80s (like the sash and that one about the soldier of the UDA or something) were pish and got dropped as attitudes changed. * This shouldn't be taken as an endorsement of burning Atlanta to the ground, either during the civil war or at any point in the future, nor should it be taken as an endorsment of Russia's recent military expedition into the Caucasian republic. End of thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Treasurer Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 So you do not think it is wrong. That is clear. Oh for feck sake !!!! I started off replying to your posts because I thought that you were a Hearts fan who had witnessed something they found unacceptable and wanted to do something about it. Fair enough I now realise that you are nothing more than a rambling wee sweety wife who's idea of positive action is to write a strongly worded letter that makes you feel superior to the "lowlifes" you are condemning but you know deep down will make not a bit of difference. When people tried to engage you in reasoned debate, rather than continue to champion your "crusade" you resort to nit-picking over wording and making smart-arsed comments about people' literacy and numeracy. Therefore I have come to the conclusion that it is pointless trying to continue to try and debate with you in an adult fashion and I am now left feeling annoyed with myself that I've wasted so much of my time trying to reason with someone so obviously far removed from reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickmaroon Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 I wasn't there so I can't comment on this particular case! In 1891 Oscar Wilde said "There is no such thing as a moral or an immoral book. Books are well written or badly written." I tend to agree I do think that making jokes about child abuse can indeed be acceptable. The work of Gerry Sadowitz, Jim Jeffries and Frankie Boyle include lots of great examples and the "Shut your ****ing face uncle ****er" song from the Southpark movie is one of the great moments in the history of cinema. If art is good enough then the content is never inappropriate. The corollary is that the more sensitve the topic the better the art has to be. If you're going to write "Harold Shipman, The musical" then your going to have to come up with some cracking tunes. Looking at examples closer to home I thought the old "Oh the hibees are gay" song was puerile, homophobic rubbish that made me cringe slightly. Put the same lyrics to the White Stripes classic riff and it becomes an utter classic and I'll happily sing along, the fact that it's indellibly associated with the 4-0 semifinal helps too. It's not sung so much these days because it's not quite as funny anymore but like the parrot sketch or stairway to heaven it'll never go away. Similarly the reason "Hello, Hello" remains in the repertoire while other songs with similarly objectionable lyrics have fallen into disuse is because "Marching through Georgia" is a brilliant tune that's easy to sing *. The other songs that I remember from the bad old days of 80s (like the sash and that one about the soldier of the UDA or something) were pish and got dropped as attitudes changed. * This shouldn't be taken as an endorsement of burning Atlanta to the ground, either during the civil war or at any point in the future, nor should it be taken as an endorsment of Russia's recent military expedition into the Caucasian republic. Splendid post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Treasurer Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 No. During a game someone might shout "you are a ******* **** ref." A child may hear this and be upset and frightened. I don't think that person should be banned. Does singing "aiden mcgeady, got shagged by a priest" mean someone should be banned because a hypothetical victim of abuse might be upset? The answer, to me, is no. Football is sanitised enough without bringing in your approach above. You're talking about frightening families...tbh families shouldn't be going to ipox/the piggery unless they are happy to have their children's ears polluted. And that's the way it should be. Thought you wanted this thread closed Good points, well made here. The only thing I might not agree with is that I doubt any decent parents would WANT their child's ear's polluted but are adult enough to know that in attending such games then their wee darlings might just hear the odd naughty word or ditty. It's called the real world and they have to become part of it at some stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The People's Chimp Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Thought you wanted this thread closed Good points, well made here. The only thing I might not agree with is that I doubt any decent parents would WANT their child's ear's polluted but are adult enough to know that in attending such games then their wee darlings might just here the odd naughty word or ditty. It's called the real world and they have to become part of it at some stage. I do want it closed! That's it isn't it. My Dad took me to the odd game at iPox when I was younger, but I don't remember ever going to the Piggery. And going to games I knew I wasn't allowed to swear. You'd hear words but you were well warned never to repeat them. I do remember my Dad having a few run ins with people over racism, but not about swearing, but he'd do that with or without me and my brother present. I suppose at least my dad would be able to come on kickback and moan about it and not face the inevitable "did you do anything about it at the game" posts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambo_til_i_die Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 I was at the game at Parkhead and personally I sat out singing "Hello, Hello" or "Rule Britannia" etc etc and all that nonesense, but we have to remember Old Firm fans give it too so I can see the banter however I dont condon it. Also I thought we were singing "your not singing anymore" aimed at the Green Brigade not knowing anything about the Celtic fan in the stand whom I didn't know about until the next day so I must need a hearing test or maybe those singing otherwise werent in my area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobskeldon Posted January 28, 2011 Author Share Posted January 28, 2011 I broadly agree bob, but as i am trying to explain i do have some reservations about the practicalities of it all. Now i have answered all your questions bob can you do me the courtesy of answering mine. it would help establish, in my mind, just how often these rules can be practically enforced. firstly, should everyone who was chanting "beast" at mcgregor be identified and banned? Yes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bilel Mohsni Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Yes! I said ******* today... Should I be hauled over the coals for making fun of children who have no dad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Yes! Oh dear god,did you not get on enough peoples tits yesterday mr informer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Oh dear god,did you not get on enough peoples tits yesterday mr informer! Ban for homophobic avatar imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 I keep being drawn to this thread, and then realising that contributing would not help in any way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 I said ******* today... Should I be hauled over the coals for making fun of children who have no dad? This sentence mocks families that have no coal. I think you should consider self-banning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Heaney Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 This sentence mocks families that have no coal. I think you should consider self-banning. What about familes who are unable to have children Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bilel Mohsni Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 This sentence mocks families that have no coal. I think you should consider self-banning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sterling Archer Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Maybe we could take a leaf out of the American book and just shout d-fence when the opposition has thr ball and cheer when we're attacking.... Through my 21 years I've found out that people are stubborn as hell, especially as they get older and are very unlikely to change. As others have said without large scale involvement from clubs and governing bodies it'll be impossible to make them change and I don't see that coming anytime. After some of the short term, money orientated decisions made by these bodies recently are they really going to isolate large sections of their biggest clubs support and reduce revenues. I think not, they need to say they care but in reality they don't give a toss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bilel Mohsni Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 What about familes who are unable to have children That post there is a clear afront to people with no families... YOU MONSTER! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Ban for homophobic avatar imo. Oh no!!!!and i would've got away with it if it wasn't for you meddling kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Hahaha, this has to have been one of the most amusing reads I've had on a long time, and thats after being selective and only reading the last few pages of the epic adventure. I tell you what, this internet malarky has a lot to answer for. I'm tempted to say I kinda preferred the days where what happened at the football was talked about at the football, maybe over beers after the football and then perhaps bragging rights joked about with colleagues and such like the next day. In those days, the 'outrage' of what was said or done within a football stadium tended to have faded out by the time the floodlights got turned off and everyone had gone home. These days however, through the wonders of the internet and the moral-crusaders which lurk within it, such issues can be dragged out over 11 pages and many days of endless and ultimately pointless discussion. My own personal opinion? The kinda folk calling for folk to be banned on the basis of what they sing are the kinda folk whom I'd prefer not to attend football matches. Many things are said and done at football matches which are in bad taste. The simple reality of this is whilst many things which are done in bad taste, the percentage of things which happen and cause genuine real full blown offence are almost nominal. I've certain NEVER seen anyone reduced to tears as a result of things shouted / sung about at a football match. Never. I dread to think what would happen if some of these crusaders watched the build up to a boxing match or an MMA bout or such like..... you know, where for WEEKS building up to the bout the contestants themselves brag about the hurt and pain and damage they are going to cause their opponent. Funnily enough, it is actually possible to say you're going to kill someone in that context WITHOUT it actually making you a murderer. Obviously there are a whole heap of other factors which contribute to this, but..... I dont think its a complete coincidence that during this new era of nanny state supporting and political correctness, football is in its most sorry state, with crowds dwindling and atmosphere's mostly non existant. The folk crusading for abuse free football ARE playing their part in killing the game. That is a bit sad really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 That post there is a clear afront to people with no families... YOU MONSTER! Monster insulter. And bigoted against non-people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Heaney Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 That post there is a clear afront to people with no families... YOU MONSTER! LOL But, if you should be chucked out a ground for calling someone a beast, should you be banned from KB for calling someone a monster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Oh no!!!!and i would've got away with it if it wasn't for you meddling kids. It's a bit harsh ro suggest gay people would wear Hibs tops imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bilel Mohsni Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 LOL But, if you should be chucked out a ground for calling someone a beast, should you be banned from KB for calling someone a monster Give it up, you have just insulted every spurned lover the world over... You will not be happy until you have upset the whole world Tom... I for one am disgusted! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Findlay Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 i happily joined in the songs such as 'you're only here for the ball boys' and 'you only sing when you're beastin'. i found them extremely humorous as did the 99% of our support that joined in. as for britannia ruling the waves, is that not factual? Brittania has not ruled the waves since the turn of the Nineteenth century into the Twentieth Century. That is fact. This is from someone who was in the Royal Navy for Eleven years(1979-1990). Still your ignorance and lack of Naval knowledge knows no bounds. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Heaney Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Give it up, you have just insulted every spurned lover the world over... You will not be happy until you have upset the whole world Tom... I for one am disgusted! Jeez, Thinking about it I have even insulted and upset myself with that one......Game Over for me I'm afraid. Where's the nearest bridge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Are you just sitting at home longing for someone to bite at your meaningless comments? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Heaney Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Are you just sitting at home longing for someone to bite at your meaningless comments? If thats aimed at me , then AYE, I'm on an attention seeking crusade only I'm not at home I'm at work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bilel Mohsni Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Jeez, Thinking about it I have even insulted and upset myself with that one......Game Over for me I'm afraid. Where's the nearest bridge Christ! Folk with bad teeth on your list for the cull now too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Oh no!!!!and i would've got away with it if it wasn't for you meddling kids. The message that Scooby Doo teaches us is that you can always rely on the lesbian in a crisis so maybe you're not as homophobic as has been assumed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 If thats aimed at me , then AYE, I'm on an attention seeking crusade only I'm not at home I'm at work I thought it was aimed at me, but you stole my line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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