New Lows!

[Bert Le Clos]

I honestly don't see any solution until the sfa and other authorities start to treat the problem seriously which in my opinion will never happen because rangers and Celtic hold so much power in the game.

 

So by all means bring those singing bigoted songs or infdulging in socially unacceptable behaviour to task by having a word. Unfortunately from what I have seen you will be largely on your own.

 

Totally agree, it won't be eradicated until the SFA do something about the worst perpetrators. Hopefully one day that will happen.

 

I also agree there was a shift nationwide to remove racial abuse from the game. The problem with the religion issue is that it hardly ever surfaces, so it's left to fester under the surface as it's only two teams who seem to be interested in it.

 

I say leave them to it.

 

You're right it probably won't do anything, but we still shouldn't burry our heads in the sand.

[maroonshrew]

I havent read the whole thread as im sure its like a game of bingo for the usual phrases. People getting annoyed for stuff, pople missing the point and telling them theyre cowards for not confronting, people claiming its PC nonsense, people choosing when to be offedned.

 

Im not gonna weigh in on that matter cos we must all do it once or twice a year but i did want to ask a question that someone else raised but i didnt see an answer to.

 

Someone intelligently pointed out that Rule Britannia and the like are sang at Parkhead t wind up the Celtic fans. Its a good point. It doesnt suddenly mean you love Rangers and winding up the opposition is part fo the plan right?

 

With that in mind, if we dont care about the religion its just about riling up the home fans, why arent Celtic songs sang at Rangers? cos it is hypocrisy if we dont do that too isnt it?Either that or we mean what we are singing.

[7628mm]

Correct Sir and you have won a watch!

 

Super thank you very much. Please PM me and I will give you my address so you can post it to me.

[maroonshrew]

Racial abuse has been eradicated from our game due to a seismic shift in society as a whole. Lots of folk took plaudits for ridding our game of racism but without a huge change of attitude throughout the whole of the uk I doubt this would have been possible.

 

 

Racism has no way been eradicated from our game as thread earlier this season showed. Not to mention the goal celebration in the asia cup yesterday.

[portobellojambo1]

Very often these sort of threads either go way off topic, or degenerate into childish insults thrown back and forward.

 

Once one has started I've often wanted to ask a question along the lines of "define loyalism, define what makes someone a loyalist", just to see what sort of responses would be forthcoming.

 

I know what doesn't make you a loyalist, and that is singing Rule Britannia, The Sash my Father Wore, Hello, Hello or any other such song inside Parkhead (or any other football ground for that matter). As a person I have my own memories of life, and what I have done to date in that life (with no regrets, other than not telling my old man how much I thought of him and loved him before he passed away), I have my own political and religious views (those that are close to me know what those are, others can only guess), but I have never found any requirement to express those views inside a football ground while watching HMFC.

 

Does having a hatred of either Roman Catholics or the Roman Catholic faith make you a loyalist, afraid not. Those that think it is a qualifying requirement really are out of tune with loyalism, loyal doesn't equate to hatred no matter how you try and tart it up . As for the Nazi salutes (even if trying to hide it behind the old "it was actually a red hand salute"), I assure you I could take you into some hard line loyalist clubs in Belfast, for example, where if you so much as attempted to make such a salute you most certainly wouldn't be making the journey home.

 

Do any of the songs mentioned above offend me in any way, no, not at all, do I feel the need to sing them inside a football ground, no. I don't go to football grounds to express either religious views or my political views, I go to watch the football club I support. When the time and place is right I will express my religious/political views with like minded people, other people with no such similar interest don't need to know such things. Do I have any objection to fans winding up the Celtic support, of course not. When we went to Parkhead and drew the game 0-0 on the same day Rangers beat Dundee United there were a number of wind up songs aimed at Celtic fans which were very funny, and which many openly joined in with. Even speaking to Celtic fans after that game some of them admitted they knew it was being done for no other reason than a wind up, and accepted it as such. Sometimes when you start singing songs within Parkhead you should really ask yourself "am I expressing what I really think, or am I making a tit of myself and feeding the unwashed with the ammunition they need to refer to us as mini huns". I was listening to a few young guys singing a song last night, and their lack of knowledge meant the song included reference to a number of non existent place names in Northern Ireland, it was actually cringeworthy to listen to (I got the impression they have heard the song, don't understand the significance or relevance of it, so just invented words as they went along).

 

As for the Provisional Irish Republican Army, the vast majority of the population despise everything they ever have or will stand for, in which ever guise they reinvent themselves. Singing songs about such an organisation within Parkhead actually makes about as much sense as trying to fight cancer with an elastoplast. The locals don't really care what your opinion is, and again all that is happening is they are being fed ammunition to use against the HMFC support.

 

Many of those that follow Rangers claim to be loyalists, all aren't. Many of those who follow Celtic claim to be Republicans, all aren't. However they like to portray themselves as such and it keeps them ticking over, its all that keeps them ticking over. HMFC has a support which, in the main isn't blinkered as such and really shouldn't be blinkered at all. When inside a football ground the only thing that should unite everyone is their love of HMFC, anything which creates division within that HMFC support has to be classed as daft.

 

For those that want to express specific views about non football matters I would never say don't, but do it at appropriate times and in appropriate places, and ask yourself if a football ground is really the appropriate place.

[johnjl]

Racism has no way been eradicated from our game as thread earlier this season showed. Not to mention the goal celebration in the asia cup yesterday.

 

I agree a poor choice of words from me. In comparison to what it used to be like it is much better now but you are quite correct it has not been eradicated.

[son of jerel]

have celtic banned anyone for those utterly disgusting banners seen all over the world a few weeks back. have they [mod edit]

 

people on here need to get a grip over a few songs sung to goad their scumbag fans.

 

think how much time and money is spent in organising they banners. that's not the work of some daft wee laddies but grown men who are so far gone with their bitter, bigoted hatred they are incurable yet celtic tolerate it.

 

i would be more concerned with where we were going if we had an element who were as messed up as they are.

[heartgarfunkel]

Its embarassing to most of us but what can you do? These guys seem to take just as much pleasure in winding up the Jambos that dissagree with them as they do the opposition, it's not like they are going to change because a few hand-wringers like we are dubbed tell them they are scuum.

 

Bang on, they get their cheapies by trying to be the really bad boys in an overwhelmingly societally 'normal' Hearts support. Big fish in a wee pond of bigots, they'd be nothing in the Rangers support, just non-Glaswegian Huns. Absolute embarrassments to the good ship Heart of Midlothian and all the good gadgeys who sail in her.

[heartgarfunkel]

have celtic banned anyone for those utterly disgusting banners seen all over the world a few weeks back. have they [mod edit]

people on here need to get a grip over a few songs sung to goad their scumbag fans.

 

think how much time and money is spent in organising they banners. that's not the work of some daft wee laddies but grown men who are so far gone with their bitter, bigoted hatred they are incurable yet celtic tolerate it.

 

i would be more concerned with where we were going if we had an element who were as messed up as they are.

 

Who gives a flying one about Celtic and the unsavoury aspects of their support? We are Heart of Midlothian!

[amadjambo]

The fact is that the VAST MAJORITY of Hearts fans behave extremely well at the vast majority of games.

 

Whenever we play Celtic, particularly at Parkhead, it seems to bring out the worst in some otherwise decent guys and the few mindless morons (that EVERY team has) are attracted to this fixture more than most.

 

It has been like this for the 32 years I've been going to the games and it will probably continue to be for the next 32 years.

 

I agree this type of behaviour is unpleasant and shouldn't happen , but seriously guys, are you actually truly offended by this crap?

 

My mum taught me when I was a wee child that "sticks and stones shall break my bones but names will never hurt me".

 

It's true. I can't recall an occassion where a song sung by opposition fans has truly offended me. Just shake my head and get on with watching the game. Yes, I've been angered by the behaviour of the mindless minority of our fans and partaken in these discussions on KB before, but the reality is FAR WORSE things happen and are spoken in our streets on a DAILY basis.

[Woolfords Hearts]

Who gives a flying one about Celtic and the unsavoury aspects of their support? We are Heart of Midlothian!

Sir,I salute you.

[Nelly Terraces]

Haha, beaten 4-0 last night and all you lot can bother about is this garbage. Shows the priorities of some of the HMFC support. The minority who come on here that is. Today I never heard this mentioned once in any convo with anyone about last nights game. It only exists as an issue on the internet vaccum, not in the real world.

[southside1874]

I love Hearts, I have done since the day I remember. My father had something to do with this with his pent up belief that I should choose the proddy team. When I was younger I had the flags and the badges. I listened to the songs. I think I even bought a glove that was red.

 

I think I've grown up a bit now and thank the maroon jersey I have. I don't believe in religion and I do believe in mankind. Folk that get involved with religion in any shape or form will show the ugliness that it brings. No matter what team they want to fly under, they are people who want to do what they want and I'm not responsible for their actions.

[cashgenerator]

Very often these sort of threads either go way off topic, or degenerate into childish insults thrown back and forward.

 

Once one has started I've often wanted to ask a question along the lines of "define loyalism, define what makes someone a loyalist", just to see what sort of responses would be forthcoming.

 

I know what doesn't make you a loyalist, and that is singing Rule Britannia, The Sash my Father Wore, Hello, Hello or any other such song inside Parkhead (or any other football ground for that matter). As a person I have my own memories of life, and what I have done to date in that life (with no regrets, other than not telling my old man how much I thought of him and loved him before he passed away), I have my own political and religious views (those that are close to me know what those are, others can only guess), but I have never found any requirement to express those views inside a football ground while watching HMFC.

 

Does having a hatred of either Roman Catholics or the Roman Catholic faith make you a loyalist, afraid not. Those that think it is a qualifying requirement really are out of tune with loyalism, loyal doesn't equate to hatred no matter how you try and tart it up . As for the Nazi salutes (even if trying to hide it behind the old "it was actually a red hand salute"), I assure you I could take you into some hard line loyalist clubs in Belfast, for example, where if you so much as attempted to make such a salute you most certainly wouldn't be making the journey home.

 

Do any of the songs mentioned above offend me in any way, no, not at all, do I feel the need to sing them inside a football ground, no. I don't go to football grounds to express either religious views or my political views, I go to watch the football club I support. When the time and place is right I will express my religious/political views with like minded people, other people with no such similar interest don't need to know such things. Do I have any objection to fans winding up the Celtic support, of course not. When we went to Parkhead and drew the game 0-0 on the same day Rangers beat Dundee United there were a number of wind up songs aimed at Celtic fans which were very funny, and which many openly joined in with. Even speaking to Celtic fans after that game some of them admitted they knew it was being done for no other reason than a wind up, and accepted it as such. Sometimes when you start singing songs within Parkhead you should really ask yourself "am I expressing what I really think, or am I making a tit of myself and feeding the unwashed with the ammunition they need to refer to us as mini huns". I was listening to a few young guys singing a song last night, and their lack of knowledge meant the song included reference to a number of non existent place names in Northern Ireland, it was actually cringeworthy to listen to (I got the impression they have heard the song, don't understand the significance or relevance of it, so just invented words as they went along).

 

As for the Provisional Irish Republican Army, the vast majority of the population despise everything they ever have or will stand for, in which ever guise they reinvent themselves. Singing songs about such an organisation within Parkhead actually makes about as much sense as trying to fight cancer with an elastoplast. The locals don't really care what your opinion is, and again all that is happening is they are being fed ammunition to use against the HMFC support.

 

Many of those that follow Rangers claim to be loyalists, all aren't. Many of those who follow Celtic claim to be Republicans, all aren't. However they like to portray themselves as such and it keeps them ticking over, its all that keeps them ticking over. HMFC has a support which, in the main isn't blinkered as such and really shouldn't be blinkered at all. When inside a football ground the only thing that should unite everyone is their love of HMFC, anything which creates division within that HMFC support has to be classed as daft.

 

For those that want to express specific views about non football matters I would never say don't, but do it at appropriate times and in appropriate places, and ask yourself if a football ground is really the appropriate place.

 

Great post mate.

[tambo1874]

why has no one else picked up on the fact that guys are openly admitting taking burds to the football

[Armageddon]

10 pages. Wow. Not read them all so not sure where we are ...

 

Are we at the stage where it's been decided that the Hearts fans did in fact kill a Celtic fan by singing anti catholic songs? It's a wonder the crowd were not screaming for a penalty. Anyway, the dead man seems to be up and about now. In a sick way, I bet he did die but some Oirish boy will keep claiming his dole money for his mate for the next 50 years so he's spreading the word that he's still alive.

 

Hearts fans filming Hearts fans, yay! That sounds amazing, since when did people pay ?30 for a match and when they turn up they decide that they are in fact the head steward?

 

Some folk wont be happy until it's like a Murrayfield atmosphere at Tyne, clapping Celtic goals shouting 'Bravo Mista Hoopa'

[Sydney]

I'm not religious, I'm not homophobic, I don't discriminate based on disability, based on their parental status or based on their size. But at football, in my younger days, I'm sure I have abused opposition players and supporters based on these grounds - not because I believed in them, but because it was a wind-up.

 

I'm older now, and I don't want my kids to do what I did when I was young, but I do know that there is a fine line, and often there are people who follow Hearts who can cross the fine line between being amusing and being offensive - and honestly, sometimes what is funny for one group can obviously be offensive for another group.

 

As an aethiest I never bought into the religious sectarian bullshit, but some people obviously do. I would prefer it if they didn't vent their feelings (real or not) at the Hearts games, but I'm not going to take a moral high ground here about it.

 

I hate to admit it, but the old Bobby Sands song "could you go a chicken supper, you dirty...." still amuses me. It was topical and witty - and designed to offend the Celtic fans. In a way, it is songs like these that makes Scottish football. Was Frank McGarvey's wife really a....? Was Mickey Weir's backside really up for rent?

 

It's all about crossing lines - and Hearts fans are very split about the religious stuff. Especially in the last 15 years. Probably a reaction to all the bad "proddy" stuff done and said by their fathers and grandfathers.

 

Or we simply have too many Guardian readers at Tynecastle now.

[Peebo]

Very often these sort of threads either go way off topic, or degenerate into childish insults thrown back and forward.

 

Once one has started I've often wanted to ask a question along the lines of "define loyalism, define what makes someone a loyalist", just to see what sort of responses would be forthcoming.

 

I know what doesn't make you a loyalist, and that is singing Rule Britannia, The Sash my Father Wore, Hello, Hello or any other such song inside Parkhead (or any other football ground for that matter). As a person I have my own memories of life, and what I have done to date in that life (with no regrets, other than not telling my old man how much I thought of him and loved him before he passed away), I have my own political and religious views (those that are close to me know what those are, others can only guess), but I have never found any requirement to express those views inside a football ground while watching HMFC.

 

Does having a hatred of either Roman Catholics or the Roman Catholic faith make you a loyalist, afraid not. Those that think it is a qualifying requirement really are out of tune with loyalism, loyal doesn't equate to hatred no matter how you try and tart it up . As for the Nazi salutes (even if trying to hide it behind the old "it was actually a red hand salute"), I assure you I could take you into some hard line loyalist clubs in Belfast, for example, where if you so much as attempted to make such a salute you most certainly wouldn't be making the journey home.

 

Do any of the songs mentioned above offend me in any way, no, not at all, do I feel the need to sing them inside a football ground, no. I don't go to football grounds to express either religious views or my political views, I go to watch the football club I support. When the time and place is right I will express my religious/political views with like minded people, other people with no such similar interest don't need to know such things. Do I have any objection to fans winding up the Celtic support, of course not. When we went to Parkhead and drew the game 0-0 on the same day Rangers beat Dundee United there were a number of wind up songs aimed at Celtic fans which were very funny, and which many openly joined in with. Even speaking to Celtic fans after that game some of them admitted they knew it was being done for no other reason than a wind up, and accepted it as such. Sometimes when you start singing songs within Parkhead you should really ask yourself "am I expressing what I really think, or am I making a tit of myself and feeding the unwashed with the ammunition they need to refer to us as mini huns". I was listening to a few young guys singing a song last night, and their lack of knowledge meant the song included reference to a number of non existent place names in Northern Ireland, it was actually cringeworthy to listen to (I got the impression they have heard the song, don't understand the significance or relevance of it, so just invented words as they went along).

 

As for the Provisional Irish Republican Army, the vast majority of the population despise everything they ever have or will stand for, in which ever guise they reinvent themselves. Singing songs about such an organisation within Parkhead actually makes about as much sense as trying to fight cancer with an elastoplast. The locals don't really care what your opinion is, and again all that is happening is they are being fed ammunition to use against the HMFC support.

 

Many of those that follow Rangers claim to be loyalists, all aren't. Many of those who follow Celtic claim to be Republicans, all aren't. However they like to portray themselves as such and it keeps them ticking over, its all that keeps them ticking over. HMFC has a support which, in the main isn't blinkered as such and really shouldn't be blinkered at all. When inside a football ground the only thing that should unite everyone is their love of HMFC, anything which creates division within that HMFC support has to be classed as daft.

 

For those that want to express specific views about non football matters I would never say don't, but do it at appropriate times and in appropriate places, and ask yourself if a football ground is really the appropriate place.

 

Amen to that. Probably one of the best posts I've ever read on here.

[Guest John Meurig Thomas]

You lot are backward as anything. That was the best Hearts end we've taken to any away game in well over a year and I hope the same lot turn up for every away from now, but they won't. Hibs away at the start of November was like playing Hamilton at home compared to two nights ago.

 

What I've never understood is why the people who rightly disagree with all the bigoted nonsense that gets sung never attempt to make an effort to drown them out themselves. It's not all that difficult. If - like you all love to claim - you want 90 minutes of Hearts songs, why not make the effort yourselves? Why not wait until the dodgy stuff quietens down and start up the Hearts song or something like that? Why do you lot never join in with the last two verses of HYHOTHOM? Why are new songs ridiculously hard to get going?

 

It's because you're all lazy. It's incredibly easy to be proactive, and I'm willing to bet a lot of money that you'd be a positive influence on the Hearts support. More people would be willing to come forward and join in with you and sing real Hearts songs for 90 minutes and you'd be showing the young'ins that there's another way of creating at atmosphere. But none of this ever happens. You just pay it casual lip service and then sit down and shut up at aways. This is why the Loyal lot are more eminent, because they do make an effort (regardless of what they sing). If you all don't make an effort yourself, but just want to get rid of the 30% of the bams that were in our end on Wednesday then you've effectively killed off the last remaining vocal section of our support (again, regardless of the rights and wrongs of what they're singing).

 

If David Southern should be receiving complaints about any section of our support, it's you lot.

[Stanley_]

Very often these sort of threads either go way off topic, or degenerate into childish insults thrown back and forward.

 

Once one has started I've often wanted to ask a question along the lines of "define loyalism, define what makes someone a loyalist", just to see what sort of responses would be forthcoming.

 

I know what doesn't make you a loyalist, and that is singing Rule Britannia, The Sash my Father Wore, Hello, Hello or any other such song inside Parkhead (or any other football ground for that matter). As a person I have my own memories of life, and what I have done to date in that life (with no regrets, other than not telling my old man how much I thought of him and loved him before he passed away), I have my own political and religious views (those that are close to me know what those are, others can only guess), but I have never found any requirement to express those views inside a football ground while watching HMFC.

 

Does having a hatred of either Roman Catholics or the Roman Catholic faith make you a loyalist, afraid not. Those that think it is a qualifying requirement really are out of tune with loyalism, loyal doesn't equate to hatred no matter how you try and tart it up . As for the Nazi salutes (even if trying to hide it behind the old "it was actually a red hand salute"), I assure you I could take you into some hard line loyalist clubs in Belfast, for example, where if you so much as attempted to make such a salute you most certainly wouldn't be making the journey home.

 

Do any of the songs mentioned above offend me in any way, no, not at all, do I feel the need to sing them inside a football ground, no. I don't go to football grounds to express either religious views or my political views, I go to watch the football club I support. When the time and place is right I will express my religious/political views with like minded people, other people with no such similar interest don't need to know such things. Do I have any objection to fans winding up the Celtic support, of course not. When we went to Parkhead and drew the game 0-0 on the same day Rangers beat Dundee United there were a number of wind up songs aimed at Celtic fans which were very funny, and which many openly joined in with. Even speaking to Celtic fans after that game some of them admitted they knew it was being done for no other reason than a wind up, and accepted it as such. Sometimes when you start singing songs within Parkhead you should really ask yourself "am I expressing what I really think, or am I making a tit of myself and feeding the unwashed with the ammunition they need to refer to us as mini huns". I was listening to a few young guys singing a song last night, and their lack of knowledge meant the song included reference to a number of non existent place names in Northern Ireland, it was actually cringeworthy to listen to (I got the impression they have heard the song, don't understand the significance or relevance of it, so just invented words as they went along).

 

As for the Provisional Irish Republican Army, the vast majority of the population despise everything they ever have or will stand for, in which ever guise they reinvent themselves. Singing songs about such an organisation within Parkhead actually makes about as much sense as trying to fight cancer with an elastoplast. The locals don't really care what your opinion is, and again all that is happening is they are being fed ammunition to use against the HMFC support.

 

Many of those that follow Rangers claim to be loyalists, all aren't. Many of those who follow Celtic claim to be Republicans, all aren't. However they like to portray themselves as such and it keeps them ticking over, its all that keeps them ticking over. HMFC has a support which, in the main isn't blinkered as such and really shouldn't be blinkered at all. When inside a football ground the only thing that should unite everyone is their love of HMFC, anything which creates division within that HMFC support has to be classed as daft.

 

For those that want to express specific views about non football matters I would never say don't, but do it at appropriate times and in appropriate places, and ask yourself if a football ground is really the appropriate place.

 

Great post. Save this for the many similar threads that will pop up over the next few years as well.

[Jambof3tornado]

You lot are backward as anything. That was the best Hearts end we've taken to any away game in well over a year and I hope the same lot turn up for every away from now, but they won't. Hibs away at the start of November was like playing Hamilton at home compared to two nights ago.

 

What I've never understood is why the people who rightly disagree with all the bigoted nonsense that gets sung never attempt to make an effort to drown them out themselves. It's not all that difficult. If - like you all love to claim - you want 90 minutes of Hearts songs, why not make the effort yourselves? Why not wait until the dodgy stuff quietens down and start up the Hearts song or something like that? Why do you lot never join in with the last two verses of HYHOTHOM? Why are new songs ridiculously hard to get going?

 

It's because you're all lazy. It's incredibly easy to be proactive, and I'm willing to bet a lot of money that you'd be a positive influence on the Hearts support. More people would be willing to come forward and join in with you and sing real Hearts songs for 90 minutes and you'd be showing the young'ins that there's another way of creating at atmosphere. But none of this ever happens. You just pay it casual lip service and then sit down and shut up at aways. This is why the Loyal lot are more eminent, because they do make an effort (regardless of what they sing). If you all don't make an effort yourself, but just want to get rid of the 30% of the bams that were in our end on Wednesday then you've effectively killed off the last remaining vocal section of our support (again, regardless of the rights and wrongs of what they're singing).

 

If David Southern should be receiving complaints about any section of our support, it's you lot.

Complete balls sir!

[Bad Religion]

Complete balls sir!

Yep, absolute rubbish

[The Treasurer]

I'm seeing a girl from a catholic background just now. I'm dreading taking her to Tynecastle tbh.

 

Quite right, she'd never have time to get the housework done and have your tea on the table

[bobskeldon]

Bob, no offence intended sir but if you don't like loudmouth English yobs, you don't go on holiday to Magaluf.

Likewise, if you don't like fat people, don't go to Florida.

One more time, just for good measure, but if you can't cope with neds and bigots, you don't go to football involving the Old Firm. The Old Firm are famous for their neds and bigots and our minority of neds and bigots likes to view the Old Firm neds and bigots as their hated rivals in their chosen fields of nedcraft and bigotry .

Nothing is going to change any time soon unfortunately.

 

 

No offence taken I can assure you, In fact the only people who have mentioned the term 'offended' are individuals who seem not to have read my OP which did NOT mention being offended but DID mention being angry and frustrated!

However, there are two things I find 'interesting' about this debate

 

1 Are people scared to talk about child sexual abuse and why or why not it is a subject to sing about in front of children (and possibly their abusers). As someone who has spent the past 30 yrs protecting children, I have very clear views on this and I am happy to debate them. It would appear that in these nine pages, no one else is. Debate Union Jacks, whether Brittania rules the waves, how Irish are Celtic etc etc etc but not one debate about whether 'winding up' Celtic fans by singing songs about child-sexual abuse might be frightening or humiliating to the many victims wearing maroon and green in the stadium. It would appear that they are just as I have previously stated 'collateral damage' in the 'decent' folk's war against

against the dirty Catholic paedophiles!

 

2 It would appear that most who have responded to this post are of the opinion that if you are a decent human being who wants to watch your team play and not be subjected to the lowest form of human behaviour...don't go to football especially Celtic Park because you should know what to expect. I am sure the SFA/SPL/Henry Mcleish will be delighted at that 'nugget' of wisdom at a time when everyone is attempting to re-vitalise our National sport. I can see it now

 

IF YOU ARE A DECENT FAN OF YOUR CLUB, DO NOT ATTEND MATCHES, DO NOT BRING YOUR FAMILY AS YOU WILL BE SUBJECTED TO THE LOWEST FORM OF HUMAN BEHAVIOUR BY OTHERS WHO USE FOOTBALL AS A VEHICLE TO SPOUT THEIR BILE!

 

I actually thought the idea was to drive the racists, bigots, homophobes etc OUT and entice decent folk IN...have I got it so wrong?

[bobskeldon]

Hi bob, should the hearts supporters who sang the offensive songs last night be identified and banned?

 

 

In short, YES!

[IMA MAROON]

They are onlu songs, Bob. Far worse things happen.

 

LOWEST FORM

[bobskeldon]

The fact is that the VAST MAJORITY of Hearts fans behave extremely well at the vast majority of games.

 

Whenever we play Celtic, particularly at Parkhead, it seems to bring out the worst in some otherwise decent guys and the few mindless morons (that EVERY team has) are attracted to this fixture more than most.

 

It has been like this for the 32 years I've been going to the games and it will probably continue to be for the next 32 years.

 

I agree this type of behaviour is unpleasant and shouldn't happen , but seriously guys, are you actually truly offended by this crap?

 

My mum taught me when I was a wee child that "sticks and stones shall break my bones but names will never hurt me".

 

It's true. I can't recall an occassion where a song sung by opposition fans has truly offended me. Just shake my head and get on with watching the game. Yes, I've been angered by the behaviour of the mindless minority of our fans and partaken in these discussions on KB before, but the reality is FAR WORSE things happen and are spoken in our streets on a DAILY basis.

 

 

What if it hurts someone else?

[The Treasurer]

What if it hurts someone else?

 

Name calling CANNOT hurt someone.

Upset them or anger them, quite possibly but certainly not hurt them

[bobskeldon]

Name calling CANNOT hurt someone.

Upset them or anger them, quite possibly but certainly not hurt them

 

 

Emotional Literacy Lesson Number 1: 'Hurt' is both a physical effect and an emotional response e.g. A footballer may be 'hurt' in a tackle (physical) but the same footballer may feel 'hurt' (emotional) when he is subjected to racism or betrayed etc

 

If you read this and understand it, you can progress to Emotional Literacy (adolescent level)

[Miller Jambo 60]

Thought a significant number of our support were even more embarrassing than normal

last night. Not just the usual jolly songs about Brittania ruling the waves, or those rather

catchy ones about child sexual abuse and 'beasting', our cheeky chappies with their 'banter'

gleefully belted out a song about one million people dying through hunger and disease!

 

And to cap it all during the minutes applause (which in fairness many took part in) for

someone's dad, granda, husband, partner, friend etc) there were shouts of "am no clappin ya

shower o f****n b******s am gald he is deid!

 

Don't want to hear all the usual "moral brigade" crap, just grow up!

 

Wot you meen is Celtic fans are the best in the world.

For a fanbase that support the IRA you have just made a big boob.

 

Dougstar.

 

 

[The Treasurer]

Emotional Literacy Lesson Number 1: 'Hurt' is both a physical effect and an emotional response e.g. A footballer may be 'hurt' in a tackle (physical) but the same footballer may feel 'hurt' (emotional) when he is subjected to racism or betrayed etc

 

If you read this and understand it, you can progress to Emotional Literacy (adolescent level)

 

So now you've resorted to trying to be clever and intellectually superior.

A clear sign that your "argument is falling apart.

That's a shame as I thought you appeared quite intelligent (although misguided) and I was hoping to continue this debate in an adult fashion.

Hopefully I was wrong (I'm sure you'll tell me if I am) and this was just a wee lapse on your part.

[Miller Jambo 60]

Emotional Literacy Lesson Number 1: 'Hurt' is both a physical effect and an emotional response e.g. A footballer may be 'hurt' in a tackle (physical) but the same footballer may feel 'hurt' (emotional) when he is subjected to racism or betrayed etc

 

If you read this and understand it, you can progress to Emotional Literacy (adolescent level)

 

You for real mate, the tic hate us, mind you give them a bunch o flowers at the next home game

You are a sad man, and i go to church

[Miller Jambo 60]

Yawn!

 

Sorry bud your the yawn, go and follow a wee wee team so you wont have to listen to the abuse.

Do you know Ian Skeldon, my old gaffer at RHM

[bobskeldon]

So now you've resorted to trying to be clever and intellectually superior.

A clear sign that your "argument is falling apart.

That's a shame as I thought you appeared quite intelligent (although misguided) and I was hoping to continue this debate in an adult fashion.

Hopefully I was wrong (I'm sure you'll tell me if I am) and this was just a wee lapse on your part.

 

 

Not clever, not intellectually superior (you will have made my pals laugh!) just information giving. Do you now agree that calling someone names can hurt them or not?

[bobskeldon]

Wot you meen is Celtic fans are the best in the world.

For a fanbase that support the IRA you have just made a big boob.

 

Dougstar.

 

 

!

[The Treasurer]

Not clever, not intellectually superior (you will have made my pals laugh!) just information giving. Do you now agree that calling someone names can hurt them or not?

 

You have pals!!!

And there was me thinking you were on a lone crusade to make the world all nice and cuddly

 

Put it this way, I'd much rather someone came up to me and called me a nasty name than smacked me in the face.

So no, I don't think word's can "hurt" someone in the true sense.

They may offend or upset yes.

 

[bobskeldon]

You have pals!!!

And there was me thinking you were on a lone crusade to make the world all nice and cuddly

 

Put it this way, I'd much rather someone came up to me and called me a nasty name than smacked me in the face.

So no, I don't think word's can "hurt" someone in the true sense.

They may offend or upset yes.

 

 

So, just for the record you (I assume your real name is not 'The Treasurer') think that 'hurt' is not an emotional response or an emotional state. Is that true or false? It is not a trick question!

[I.J]

[johnjl]

In short, YES!

 

so where does it end is the obvious next question.

 

for instance on Saturday you had several hundred jambos shouting "beast" at alan mcgregor who, incidentally, has not been convicted of any sex crimes.

 

do you try to ban these people individually.

 

it`s easy to start these things but i am questioning where it would end.

[Guest Bilel Mohsni]

I like to dip in and out of this thread to cheer me up every now and again.

[Boab]

Haha, beaten 4-0 last night and all you lot can bother about is this garbage. Shows the priorities of some of the HMFC support. The minority who come on here that is. Today I never heard this mentioned once in any convo with anyone about last nights game. It only exists as an issue on the internet vaccum, not in the real world.

 

Feck me is this still on the go?

I think the bold Nelly is right here folks.It won't be mentioned when people meet up on Saturday...it'll be the football.

[johnjl]

So, just for the record you (I assume your real name is not 'The Treasurer') think that 'hurt' is not an emotional response or an emotional state. Is that true or false? It is not a trick question!

 

bob, you were doing stuff like this yesterday too. a bit of genuine advice, stop treating anybody with the audacity to question what you say like a complete idiot.

 

i disagree with much of what you say and am at work and will debate it with you all day long but stop deliberately trying to get everyones hackles up.

 

you see this whole issue in very simplistic terms and it is not a simple issue by any stretch of the imagination.

[The Treasurer]

bob, you were doing stuff like this yesterday too. a bit of genuine advice, stop treating anybody with the audacity to question what you say like a complete idiot.

 

i disagree with much of what you say and am at work and will debate it with you all day long but stop deliberately trying to get everyones hackles up.

 

you see this whole issue in very simplistic terms and it is not a simple issue by any stretch of the imagination.

 

Couldn't have put it better myself John

[topcat]

When you find yourself debating semantics and asking each other to define terms it's a sure sign that you're heading towards a sophistic stalemate.

[The Treasurer]

So, just for the record you (I assume your real name is not 'The Treasurer') think that 'hurt' is not an emotional response or an emotional state. Is that true or false? It is not a trick question!

 

I think the use of the word "hurt" to describe someone's emotional state is a word used by touchy-feely, do-gooder, tree-hugging, social work types.

As I have already clearly stated someone can be upset or angered by words but cannot be "hurt" by them.

Maybe my view is old fashioned but I think far too much is made nowadays about the effect a few ill-chosen words might have on some sensitive wee soul's feelings.

That clear enough for you ?

[bobskeldon]

bob, you were doing stuff like this yesterday too. a bit of genuine advice, stop treating anybody with the audacity to question what you say like a complete idiot.

 

i disagree with much of what you say and am at work and will debate it with you all day long but stop deliberately trying to get everyones hackles up.

 

you see this whole issue in very simplistic terms and it is not a simple issue by any stretch of the imagination.

 

 

I am merely trying to establish whether 'The Treasurer' believes that what he says is true or not. This is important because 'The Treasurer' has stated that verbal interactions e.g. 'names' can't hurt but CAN upset. Therefore, I would like to know if

'The Treasurer' is happy for songs to be sung about e.g. child sexual abuse in full knowledge (as he has recognised himself) that it might "upset' children who have been or who are victims of child sexual abuse. If anyone is prepared to knowingly and intentionally "upset" children, I think the vast majority of Hearts fans who would never knowingly or intentionally "upset" children are entitled to know who these people are. If 'The Treasurer' like me is appalled that anyone would do this, he should (and with the greatest respect) without your assistance say so.

[bobskeldon]

I think the use of the word "hurt" to describe someone's emotional state is a word used by touchy-feely, do-gooder, tree-hugging, social work types.

As I have already clearly stated someone can be upset or angered by words but cannot be "hurt" by them.

Maybe my view is old fashioned but I think far too much is made nowadays about the effect a few ill-chosen words might have on some sensitive wee soul's feelings.

That clear enough for you ?

 

 

No, you assume that I am a touchy feely, do gooder, tree hugging, social work 'type'! Why?

[The Treasurer]

I am merely trying to establish whether 'The Treasurer' believes that what he says is true or not. This is important because 'The Treasurer' has stated that verbal interactions e.g. 'names' can't hurt but CAN upset. Therefore, I would like to know if

'The Treasurer' is happy for songs to be sung about e.g. child sexual abuse in full knowledge (as he has recognised himself) that it might "upset' children who have been or who are victims of child sexual abuse. If anyone is prepared to knowingly and intentionally "upset" children, I think the vast majority of Hearts fans who would never knowingly or intentionally "upset" children are entitled to know who these people are. If 'The Treasurer' like me is appalled that anyone would do this, he should (and with the greatest respect) without your assistance say so.

 

I like to think I'm a fairly intelligent person but I've read this rambling post 2 or 3 times and I've got no idea what the hell it's meant to be that I'm supposed to give an answer to.

[bobskeldon]

When you find yourself debating semantics and asking each other to define terms it's a sure sign that you're heading towards a sophistic stalemate.

 

 

Do you really think that debating whether children who are the victims of child sexual abuse should be subjected to 'banter' or 'wind ups' which "upsets, or humiliates or frightens" them is pedantic?

 

You would be better providing your opinion on whether singing songs in the knowledge that children may be upset, or humiliated or frightened by that song is right or wrong!

[Tom Heaney]

I am merely trying to establish whether 'The Treasurer' believes that what he says is true or not. This is important because 'The Treasurer' has stated that verbal interactions e.g. 'names' can't hurt but CAN upset. Therefore, I would like to know if

'The Treasurer' is happy for songs to be sung about e.g. child sexual abuse in full knowledge (as he has recognised himself) that it might "upset' children who have been or who are victims of child sexual abuse. If anyone is prepared to knowingly and intentionally "upset" children, I think the vast majority of Hearts fans who would never knowingly or intentionally "upset" children are entitled to know who these people are. If 'The Treasurer' like me is appalled that anyone would do this, he should (and with the greatest respect) without your assistance say so.

Jeez Bob, how many times did the guy have to tell you for it to register.

 

I think we all get your point Bob, You are annoyed, you have taken over 40 years to throw your dummy out the pram, you are on a crusade and good luck to you. But as has been pointed out already on this thread, we will rehash this again and it wont necessarily be after a visit to Darkheid, it happens all the time but you have chosen a higher profile game to start your crusade