Alien spaceships are impossible.

[maroonlegions]

Sheriff Recalls North Dakota UFO Encounter

 

 

Published: 9:41 AM 9/22/2009

 

Editor's Note: I was contacted a couple of weeks ago by one Lawrence Gessner, former Sheriff in Sheridan County, city of McClusky, North Dakota. He told me a remarkable story.He also had served 14 years with the U.S. Air Force, with all of his work involving planes. In other words, he was an expert witness.

 

 

"While actively serving as Sheriff on July 10, 2003, he saw an unknown diamond-shaped UFO. He was at home at the time of the incident. His wife also saw the object."

 

Click the below link to see his original and whole report he filed giving greater detail of what he and his wife seen.He was told by his superiors to keep his mouth shut as this could damage his credibility as a sheriff. He had to wait until he was retired to go public with this.

 

link source, http://www.ufocasebook.com/2009c/gessnerreport.html

[maroonlegions]

Thanks for clearing that up.

 

On a serious note, in scientific terms, both are theories until you can prove either way.

 

The latest theory is that the universe is a doughnout shape, so it feels infinite because it is a circular shape, and you can leave the doughnout shape and re enter at another part - the 4th dimension - which leaves room for the idea of time travel.

 

Correct on possible time travel, some astro- physicists are currently pontificating these theories on time travel , maybe some day eh.

[maroonlegions]

No chance of a cover up in todays world, the evidence would be on youtube in seconds.

 

Ever heard of a D 10 notice., Did you have a butchers through the information that Tim Good has provided on security clearance levels and the realities of this having a very big say in the authorities keeping a tight lid on any real evidence and information getting out.

 

It is recommended to go through his material to see and understand the sheer size, operational and compartmented security levels that are need to maintain a cover up.He is saying that most prime ministers past and present of Britain and the USA do not have enough security clearances above top secret to even begin to apprehend the realities of UFOs and their intelligences.

 

It is all based on a need to know bases were only a few at the top of the military and governmental infrastructures , including organisations like the CIA really know what is going on..National security laws are the the main tool in keeping a lid on this getting out.It is a very effect way of denying or stopping further investigations from various UFO organisations and individuals from digging deeper.

 

 

This is a must read to see the bigger picture.

[Munch]

I don't think spud is proposing that "UFOs" are "alien spacecraft".

 

I think - and if I'm wrong I'm sure he will correct me - that spud is saying that given the sheer size of the universe and the number of stars and planets it has, it's not statistically impossible for other intelligent species to exist, and not statistically impossible for some of them to have developed a technological capacity for space exploration.

 

But just because "alien spacecraft" aren't statistically impossible doesn't mean that they are statistically probable either. So we can't say (i) that they actually exist or (ii) that any have made it to this neck of the woods.

 

One of the problems with people who blur the lines between science and science fiction is that they cannot get their heads around two very big numbers. One is the size of the universe; the other is the length of time for which it has been in existence.

 

 

Yes i get it now, i suppose even if 99.9 % of the sightings have a rational explanation it does leave the .1% that could be an Alien vessel, so ML Could be onto something here.

 

Lets see if he can finally provide the proof of this, but i feel more stronger evidence is required than what has so far been put on the table, something with some solid materials that can actually be handled and touched.

 

He has to be fair provided some witness sightings, and some video evidence and pictures which is a start,lets see what he comes up with to finally prove his case.

[maroonlegions]

Thanks for clearing that up.

 

On a serious note, in scientific terms, both are theories until you can prove either way.

 

The latest theory is that the universe is a doughnout shape, so it feels infinite because it is a circular shape, and you can leave the doughnout shape and re enter at another part - the 4th dimension - which leaves room for the idea of time travel.

 

 

Thought you might want to have a wee butchers at this.

 

Professor Predicts Human Time Travel This Century

April 4th, 2006

Ronald Mallett, Professor at the University of Connecticut, has used Einstein?s equations to design a time machine with circulating laser beams. While his team is still looking for funding, he hopes to build and test the device in the next 10 years.

 

 

Mallett, a U Conn Physics Professor for 30 years, considered an alternative to these time travel methods based on Einstein?s famous relativity equation: E=mc2.

?Einstein showed that mass and energy are the same thing,? said Mallett, who published his first research on time travel in 2000 in Physics Letters. ?The time machine we?ve designed uses light in the form of circulating lasers to warp or loop time instead of using massive objects.?

 

 

link source http://www.physorg.com/news63371210.html

[scott_jambo]

Thought you might want to have a wee butchers at this.

 

Professor Predicts Human Time Travel This Century

April 4th, 2006

Ronald Mallett, Professor at the University of Connecticut, has used Einstein?s equations to design a time machine with circulating laser beams. While his team is still looking for funding, he hopes to build and test the device in the next 10 years.

 

 

Mallett, a U Conn Physics Professor for 30 years, considered an alternative to these time travel methods based on Einstein?s famous relativity equation: E=mc2.

?Einstein showed that mass and energy are the same thing,? said Mallett, who published his first research on time travel in 2000 in Physics Letters. ?The time machine we?ve designed uses light in the form of circulating lasers to warp or loop time instead of using massive objects.?

 

 

link source http://www.physorg.com/news63371210.html

 

Mate, ignore that psycho who thinks he can travel through time in ten years.

 

This is what i was talking about. I dont want to come across as a crazy conspiracy theorist like yourself.

 

 

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg19225811.300-fold-testament-what-shape-is-the-universe.html

[maroonlegions]

Yes i get it now, i suppose even if 99.9 % of the sightings have a rational explanation it does leave the .1% that could be an Alien vessel, so ML Could be onto something here.

 

Lets see if he can finally provide the proof of this, but i feel more stronger evidence is required than what has so far been put on the table, something with some solid materials that can actually be handled and touched.

 

He has to be fair provided some witness sightings, and some video evidence and pictures which is a start,lets see what he comes up with to finally prove his case.

 

 

Listen through out this thread and on several occasions i have said to you that i am not the one demanding proof here.You put forward this thread saying that UFOs are impossible so i challenged you to prove that there is no possibility of these intelligences having the technology to visit us.Remember what is clear here , if you cannot provide proof that advanced ETs have overcome our present laws of physics then it remains a possibility until proven other wise.

 

I just think that you have on several occasions through out this thread tried to turn this argument around to suggest that it is me who should be providing the proof when you know full well that you cannot provide the evidence that suggests there is no possibility of advance ETs attaining far superior knowledge and technological capabilities.

 

What makes me come to this conclusion? Well its this, have you ever once through out this thread offered evidence or ADMITTED that you cannot do so to deny the possibilities i have challenged you on, namely that there is no possibilities of advanced intelligences having the means to travel here???

 

You still have a lot of reading and study to engage with , especially the information from Tim Good on WHY the so called nuts and bolts proof you want is so ruthlessly and intelligently withheld and covered up so successfully.

In a word its easy when you have the organisations,laws , money, military resources, media out lets and professional academical structures in place to serve this very water tight cover up.

 

You want me to show you a nuts and bolts craft , come on. Circumstantial evidence backed up with very credible, information sources and l1000s of sightings recorded on film,radar ect and that is not enough??

 

Check this information from this link below and then prove that no advanced intelligence has taken this possibility from this man's equations to a much more superior and successful outcome.

 

http://www.physorg.com/news63371210.html

[Munch]

Listen through out this thread and on several occasions i have said to you that i am not the one demanding proof here.You put forward this thread saying that UFOs are impossible so i challenged you to prove that there is no possibility of these intelligences having the technology to visit us.Remember what is clear here , if you cannot provide proof that advanced ETs have overcome our present laws of physics then it remains a possibility until proven other wise.

 

I just think that you have on several occasions through out this thread tried to turn this argument around to suggest that it is me who should be providing the proof when you know full well that you cannot provide the evidence that suggests there is no possibility of advance ETs attaining far superior knowledge and technological capabilities.

 

What makes me come to this conclusion? Well its this, have you ever once through out this thread offered evidence or ADMITTED that you cannot do so to deny the possibilities i have challenged you on, namely that there is no possibilities of advanced intelligences having the means to travel here???

 

You still have a lot of reading and study to engage with , especially the information from Tim Good on WHY the so called nuts and bolts proof you want is so ruthlessly and intelligently withheld and covered up so successfully.

In a word its easy when you have the organisations,laws , money, military resources, media out lets and professional academical structures in place to serve this very water tight cover up.

 

You want me to show you a nuts and bolts craft , come on. Circumstantial evidence backed up with very credible, information sources and l1000s of sightings recorded on film,radar ect and that is not enough??

 

Check this information from this link below and then prove that no advanced intelligence has taken this possibility from this man's equations to a much more superior and successful outcome.

 

http://www.physorg.com/news63371210.html

 

A Time machine cant see it mate its theoretically impossible there is only one space time continuum.

[deesidejambo]

A Time machine cant see it mate its theoretically impossible there is only one space time continuum.

 

According to Hawking Time travel is impossible because if it was possible there would be people from the future already amongst us. Over on Icke they are discussing whether Amy Winehouse is a visitor from the future.

[Munch]

According to Hawking Time travel is impossible because if it was possible there would be people from the future already amongst us. Over on Icke they are discussing whether Amy Winehouse is a visitor from the future.

 

I Dont want time travel as it would mean the hobos could go back to see there team lift the big cup, it does not matter going forward as they will never win it in the future

[Bigsmak]

I like the wormhole time travel theory that states you can travel back and forward through time using wormholes..

 

This (apparently) allows Time Travel to exist with current laws of physics.

 

Now you need to have a wormhole at each end of the "machine" as it were. So you need to create a wormhole for people to come back to you. SO basically Time Travel is only possible from when time travel is invented... If that makes any sense.

 

I actually thought about writing a short story where a small wormhole is created using the Large Hadron Collider and people from the future use it to send us data packets through the wormhole...

 

Much fun!

[spud]

I don't think spud is proposing that "UFOs" are "alien spacecraft".

 

I think - and if I'm wrong I'm sure he will correct me - that spud is saying that given the sheer size of the universe and the number of stars and planets it has, it's not statistically impossible for other intelligent species to exist, and not statistically impossible for some of them to have developed a technological capacity for space exploration.

 

But just because "alien spacecraft" aren't statistically impossible doesn't mean that they are statistically probable either. So we can't say (i) that they actually exist or (ii) that any have made it to this neck of the woods.

 

One of the problems with people who blur the lines between science and science fiction is that they cannot get their heads around two very big numbers. One is the size of the universe; the other is the length of time for which it has been in existence.

 

Another problem with people who blur the lines is their lack of understanding of the falsifiability of science and their insistence on proofs.

 

ML keeps going on about how we cannot prove that aliens have visited the earth. Of course we cannot. I absolutely agree with him. But I have no evidence that cups do not have conversations when we leave the room. The statement "Aliens have visited the Earth" is not falsifiable and therefore is not science.

 

It is not me that is claiming that aliens visit the Earth, so it is ML that has to provide evidence that they have. Concrete evidence not some blurry photo.

 

Look at his last photographic evidence; an out of focus flame on a black background which the photographer says was flying at an altitude of 1000 feet. Not 1200 feet or 800 feet, 1000 feet. In order to know the altitude he would need to know the size. If he knew this then he would know what it was and it would not be unidentified. It could be a campfire; it could be someone lighting a match; it could be anything.

 

But in ML's world it is a UFO!!!!! There is no doubt because the photographer said it was. The lack of criticism is astounding. Anyone, anywhere, can put up some blurry shot, claim it is a UFO, put it on the internet and you can guarantee that ML will be quoting it on JKB without question.

[Ulysses]

overcome our present laws of physics

 

 

Have you ever read a physics book in your life?

[Ulysses]

Thanks for clearing that up.

 

On a serious note, in scientific terms, both are theories until you can prove either way.

 

The latest theory is that the universe is a doughnout shape, so it feels infinite because it is a circular shape, and you can leave the doughnout shape and re enter at another part - the 4th dimension - which leaves room for the idea of time travel.

 

The doughnut concept (it's not quite a theory yet, I think) kinda proposes that the universe is very big, but because of its layout can create the impression of being infinite.

 

Although string theory (without which both an infinite universe and time travel are, to use technical jargon, screwed) is becoming increasingly accepted by physicists it has a lot of gaps in it, not least because it does not as yet provide quantitative predictions. Because it is still at a relatively early stage of development, there are too many mathematical models trying to describe too many different physical circumstances. Compare that to gravity - if a burger hits the ground it goes splat. How simple is that?

 

I don't mind someone saying he's got the maths to show that time travel is possible. But he has a bit of a problem when he has to create 7 (or 11, or 22) dimensions of spacetime in order to make the equations work - because first of all he has to show the numbers to get the 7 (or 11, or 22) spacetime fields to make sense.

[Ulysses]

According to Hawking Time travel is impossible because if it was possible there would be people from the future already amongst us. Over on Icke they are discussing whether Amy Winehouse is a visitor from the future.

 

Some dude from Trinity College Dublin did some numbers to back this up a few years ago. I can't remember how many additional dimensions of spacetime he created for his equations, but I think it was 11.

 

Anyway, it all looked great until some other dude from Chicago (I think) pointed out that because of a simple trick of algebra in one of his sub-equations, he'd managed to devise a formula that could only produce a positive result - hence "proving" that it was possible to travel in time, but only in one direction.

 

I can't recall the dude from Dublin winning a Nobel prize. Maybe he'll win one sometime in the 20th century.

[cosanostra]

Some dude from Trinity College Dublin did some numbers to back this up a few years ago. I can't remember how many additional dimensions of spacetime he created for his equations, but I think it was 11.

 

Anyway, it all looked great until some other dude from Chicago (I think) pointed out that because of a simple trick of algebra in one of his sub-equations, he'd managed to devise a formula that could only produce a positive result - hence "proving" that it was possible to travel in time, but only in one direction.

 

I can't recall the dude from Dublin winning a Nobel prize. Maybe he'll win one sometime in the 20th century.

 

I know zero about this stuff but i'm sure I read some quotes attributed to Hawking where he said that he believed that time travel could be possible, but only time travel back in time.

[Munch]

Maybee these flying saucers that ML is trying to convince us that they exist, are infact time travelers they pop into our time line check out a windfarm in Falkirk then after a few quick photo shoots they go back to there own time line, hence never any concrete evidence apart from shaky photos on camera phones etc.

[Guest GhostHunter]

Interesting..

 

http://english.pravda.ru/science/19/94/378/16663_UFO.html

[spud]

Can you provide proof that there is no cover up and professional debunking of genuine UFOs and reports of them by the powers at be.

 

This is the most persuasive failure of conspiracy theory, the attempt at the reversal of the burden of proof. It is a common trick practised by people who have a fruitless hypothesis. The trick is in trying to give equal weight for both sides of the argument which gives their pointless counter argument some weight.

 

The theorist makes some statement; it was the shot from the grassy knoll that killed him; aliens visit the Earth and the military cover it up; secret organisations rule the Earth. If an objection is made the follow up line is always the same, ?Ah but can you prove it wasn?t the shot; that they don?t visit, that there is a cover up etc??

 

It is an utterly futile argument, yet people fall for it. It?s the theorist who is making the claims so the burden of producing evidence is with them. It is they who have to produce compelling and convincing evidence to support their claims.

 

So, no I have no idea whether there is a giant cover up plan but I have not made any claims that there is such a plan. Because I have made no claims, I don't have to provide evidence.

 

However,you seem to believe that a cover up exists about alien visits. So please provide your evidence. If your evidence is just quoting some other guy who believes you or told you, then provide their evidence. Also you can?t just say it?s so secret that no one knows, because you say that you know. So let?s have your evidence.

 

Surely, if it is such a huge cover up then these people must meet. Perhaps you have some meeting agendas? or a transcript of a meeting? a recording maybe? No? Well maybe they don't meet but at least they must communicate in some way. So at least you have some faxes? e-mails? maybe only the locations of meetings? dates of meetings? details of who was present? the meals they ate? their laundry bills?

 

Anything? Just a little scrap? Maybe evidence of a different type? Honestly, anything will do.

[Bigsmak]

Guys, if you are interested in Time Travel, Lasers, Robots and Space Travel etc.. I think you should read this book...

 

Michio Kaku - Physics of the Impossible

 

Its an easy to read book that deals with the Physics behind;

* Force Fields

* Invisibility

* Energy Weapons

* Teleportation

* Telepathy

* Psychokinesis

* Robots

* UFOs & Aliens

* Space Travel (including Faster Than Light travel)

* Parallel & Alternate Universes

* Time Travel

* Perpetual Motion Machines

* Precognition

 

I am nearly through it and am loving it! He always writes from the perspective of a Star Wars or Star Trek fan. Its fun.

 

some reviews

http://physics.about.com/od/physicsbooks/gr/impossphysics.htm

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/reviews/physics-of-the-impossible-by-michio-kaku-859665.html

 

Go get it!

[Cigaro]

Another problem with people who blur the lines is their lack of understanding of the falsifiability of science and their insistence on proofs.

 

ML keeps going on about how we cannot prove that aliens have visited the earth. Of course we cannot. I absolutely agree with him. But I have no evidence that cups do not have conversations when we leave the room. The statement "Aliens have visited the Earth" is not falsifiable and therefore is not science.

 

It is not me that is claiming that aliens visit the Earth, so it is ML that has to provide evidence that they have. Concrete evidence not some blurry photo.

 

Look at his last photographic evidence; an out of focus flame on a black background which the photographer says was flying at an altitude of 1000 feet. Not 1200 feet or 800 feet, 1000 feet. In order to know the altitude he would need to know the size. If he knew this then he would know what it was and it would not be unidentified. It could be a campfire; it could be someone lighting a match; it could be anything.

 

But in ML's world it is a UFO!!!!! There is no doubt because the photographer said it was. The lack of criticism is astounding. Anyone, anywhere, can put up some blurry shot, claim it is a UFO, put it on the internet and you can guarantee that ML will be quoting it on JKB without question.

I'm still aiting on the details of this UFO sighting from him:

 

[deesidejambo]

This is the most persuasive failure of conspiracy theory, the attempt at the reversal of the burden of proof. It is a common trick practised by people who have a fruitless hypothesis. The trick is in trying to give equal weight for both sides of the argument which gives their pointless counter argument some weight.

 

The theorist makes some statement; it was the shot from the grassy knoll that killed him; aliens visit the Earth and the military cover it up; secret organisations rule the Earth. If an objection is made the follow up line is always the same, ?Ah but can you prove it wasn?t the shot; that they don?t visit, that there is a cover up etc??

 

It is an utterly futile argument, yet people fall for it. It?s the theorist who is making the claims so the burden of producing evidence is with them. It is they who have to produce compelling and convincing evidence to support their claims.

 

So, no I have no idea whether there is a giant cover up plan but I have not made any claims that there is such a plan. Because I have made no claims, I don't have to provide evidence.

 

However,you seem to believe that a cover up exists about alien visits. So please provide your evidence. If your evidence is just quoting some other guy who believes you or told you, then provide their evidence. Also you can?t just say it?s so secret that no one knows, because you say that you know. So let?s have your evidence.

 

Surely, if it is such a huge cover up then these people must meet. Perhaps you have some meeting agendas? or a transcript of a meeting? a recording maybe? No? Well maybe they don't meet but at least they must communicate in some way. So at least you have some faxes? e-mails? maybe only the locations of meetings? dates of meetings? details of who was present? the meals they ate? their laundry bills?

 

Anything? Just a little scrap? Maybe evidence of a different type? Honestly, anything will do.

 

Good try spud. But heres the problem. ML is deluded and not someone you will ever be able to reason with. Even his ramblings over on Icke are getting more and more desperate.

 

For normal people - Spud is correct that the way "conspiracy theorists" work is by asking you to disprove their claims, rather than providing evidence themselves. They see that as legtimate reasoning. Of course it is nonsense.

 

Lets try it out -

 

Hibs won the Scottish Cup in 1938. Prove that wrong. And before you try, remember -

 

All official SFA Records were falsified.

The original film of the match was lost and subsituted wth a film of East Fife winning it in a studio in front of paid stooge supporters.

Every single person who was involved in the fake East Fife win is a liar.

 

Therefore - Hibs won it. QED. End of.

[maroonlegions]

This is the most persuasive failure of conspiracy theory, the attempt at the reversal of the burden of proof. It is a common trick practised by people who have a fruitless hypothesis. The trick is in trying to give equal weight for both sides of the argument which gives their pointless counter argument some weight.

 

The theorist makes some statement; it was the shot from the grassy knoll that killed him; aliens visit the Earth and the military cover it up; secret organisations rule the Earth. If an objection is made the follow up line is always the same, ?Ah but can you prove it wasn?t the shot; that they don?t visit, that there is a cover up etc??

 

It is an utterly futile argument, yet people fall for it. It?s the theorist who is making the claims so the burden of producing evidence is with them. It is they who have to produce compelling and convincing evidence to support their claims.

 

So, no I have no idea whether there is a giant cover up plan but I have not made any claims that there is such a plan. Because I have made no claims, I don't have to provide evidence.

 

However,you seem to believe that a cover up exists about alien visits. So please provide your evidence. If your evidence is just quoting some other guy who believes you or told you, then provide their evidence. Also you can?t just say it?s so secret that no one knows, because you say that you know. So let?s have your evidence.

 

Surely, if it is such a huge cover up then these people must meet. Perhaps you have some meeting agendas? or a transcript of a meeting? a recording maybe? No? Well maybe they don't meet but at least they must communicate in some way. So at least you have some faxes? e-mails? maybe only the locations of meetings? dates of meetings? details of who was present? the meals they ate? their laundry bills?

 

Anything? Just a little scrap? Maybe evidence of a different type? Honestly, anything will do.

 

 

 

Again your entire post is not about the FACTS but about attacking my character and credibility. I WILL ASK YOU ONE MORE TIME TO ANSWER THE QUESTIONS I PUT TO YOU IN PREVIOUS POSTS.

 

1.Have you or have you not fully understood the information that Tim GOOD has put out in explaining the processes that detail the organisation that is required for a cover up or any conspiracy theory. If not then please explain how you can have the required insight,information and justifications in denying its happening when in reality you make rash statements based on NO insight or knowledge on the subject??

 

2.The UFO material i post is after i have read the back ground reports on any individual sighting and feel it could be an unknown.I have often left comments on these kind of reports indicating POSSIBLE unknown.Tell me this, do you except that to the UNTRAINED EYE some of these blurry pictures can seem just like they are and that is all they seem to show.You are forgetting that to the trained eye and with the right methods and technology used along with the proper applications of enhanced digital enhancing these pictures can be come clearer.

 

3.As you have failed to answer my questions and rather attack me on every opportunity with uneducated gibberish and ignorance coupled with a dose of arrogance, can you please say in what capacity you have even begun to scratch the surface of this huge subject??

 

4.Can you really prove that every UFO every photographed or captured on film is not a genuine unknown ,pertaining to open up the possibility of unknown/alien origins???

 

5.Did you know that a D-10 notice is an act from the Government( or those organisations who control and manipulate these governments), that is issued when there is a threat to national security.This D10 notice has the complete power and authority to basically forbid any information coming from news papers, media out lets, tv, radio and individuals that is considered to be of national security.

 

6.The penalty's for breeching this law are severe ,imprisonment and very big fines.The ability to control and manipulate ALL information on any serious and genuine UFO report or sighting,( be it a blurry photo:10900: or witness statement) is very real and very affective.Its a real shame you deliberately choose to ignore my offer of explaining this official notice or openly admitted that you knew nothing about its function,reality or purpose or even recognised its real effectiveness in censoring out all forms of communication to the general populace.(Now what is yourv take on the non possibility of a cover up or any other conspiracy theory's).

 

7.You in your world of ,its not important,whay bother or even listen to such things as D10 NOTICES, credible witness statements and privied information coming from individuals with very high security clearnesses is a very non intelligent and incoherent way in approaching this subject.To even begin to attempt to scratch the surface of the information on this subject , like any subject you need to do REVISION :2thumbsup:and you of all people should know this.

 

8.But you choose to ignore important information or ADMIT that you have not done nearly enough REVISION:2thumbsup: on UFOs to justify your claims of blurry pictures,delusions and paranoia claims in your attacks on my character and on the genuine UFO researchers and credible sources of information.

 

 

You have also chosen to ignore the facts that you have not proven a thing in the claims that the possibility that we have been visited and could be still now.

 

There is not enough bandwidth on here to provide you with the evidence of a cover up but there is plenty of information from credible and reliable sources.Tim Goods INFORMATION IS A START FOR YOU TO DIGEST but i trust you will ignore it. If you had even bothered to look at the links i provided on him you would have come across some of his evidence pointing to a possible cover up, did you or will you, i will not hold my breath for an answer.

 

 

"This is the most persuasive failure of conspiracy theory, the attempt at the reversal of the burden of proof." (YOU HAVE FAILED TO PROVIDE ANY PROOF, I HAVE PROVIDED CREDIBLE INFORMATION FROM CREDIBLE SOURCES BUT YOU CHOOSE TO IGNORE IT, THEN YOU ACCUSE ME OF REVERSAL OF THE BURDEN OF PROOF, YOUR PROOF IS A BURDEN TO YOU BECAUSE YOU HAVE NONE).

 

AND WHAT IF ANYTHING WOULD YOU REALLY KNOW OF THESE CONSPIRACY THEORY'S, WHAT IS YOUR POSITION OF KNOWLEDGE ON ANY OF THESE SUBJECTS AND HOW CAN YOU CLAIM TO CONDEMN THEM WHEN YOU YOURSELF HAVE NO REAL UNDERSTANDING ,KNOWLEDGE OR INSIGHT REGARDING THESE MATTERS.

[Munch]

This is the most persuasive failure of conspiracy theory, the attempt at the reversal of the burden of proof. It is a common trick practised by people who have a fruitless hypothesis. The trick is in trying to give equal weight for both sides of the argument which gives their pointless counter argument some weight.

 

The theorist makes some statement; it was the shot from the grassy knoll that killed him; aliens visit the Earth and the military cover it up; secret organisations rule the Earth. If an objection is made the follow up line is always the same, ?Ah but can you prove it wasn?t the shot; that they don?t visit, that there is a cover up etc??

 

It is an utterly futile argument, yet people fall for it. It?s the theorist who is making the claims so the burden of producing evidence is with them. It is they who have to produce compelling and convincing evidence to support their claims.

 

So, no I have no idea whether there is a giant cover up plan but I have not made any claims that there is such a plan. Because I have made no claims, I don't have to provide evidence.

 

However,you seem to believe that a cover up exists about alien visits. So please provide your evidence. If your evidence is just quoting some other guy who believes you or told you, then provide their evidence. Also you can?t just say it?s so secret that no one knows, because you say that you know. So let?s have your evidence.

 

Surely, if it is such a huge cover up then these people must meet. Perhaps you have some meeting agendas? or a transcript of a meeting? a recording maybe? No? Well maybe they don't meet but at least they must communicate in some way. So at least you have some faxes? e-mails? maybe only the locations of meetings? dates of meetings? details of who was present? the meals they ate? their laundry bills?

 

Anything? Just a little scrap? Maybe evidence of a different type? Honestly, anything will do.

 

He has no concrete evidence that proves that Alien Spaceships exist, nothing ,nada, nought.

 

He does have lots of links to web sites with photos which are always way out of focus and are inconclusive.

 

He does have various reports and papers on the subjec the written by various people some who are credible but no solid proof.

 

If the US Government were to throw open the doors to Area 51 tomorrow and invite the world in, ML Would conclude its a stitch up and the place was cleared out and the flying disk and the little green men with the egg heads and large eyes who were preserved in the glass tanks of fluid have all been removed.

 

Until an Actual spaceship is found and presented to the world i conclude as my original post said " Alien spaceships are impossible "

[makateer]

FECKING HELL ML YOU ARE MENTAL STOP IT NOW YOU MENTALIST

[Bigsmak]

Until an Actual spaceship is found and presented to the world i conclude as my original post said " Alien spaceships are impossible "

 

They are not Impossible... Just we haven't seem them yet!

[maroonlegions]

I'm still aiting on the details of this UFO sighting from him:

 

 

Are you , well you took your time in highlighting that did you not.Cannot recall you requesting this.:2thumbsup:The below information might have some barring on this UFO you are enquiring about.

 

 

Michigan 1966:

 

SHERIFFS WATCH HIGH-PERFORMANCE DISCS, ALSO TRACKED ON RADAR:

 

Events from March 14-20, 1966, in Southeastern Michigan, United States of America.

 

March 14, 1966:

 

From about 3:50 a.m. on March 14 and for 2-1/2 hours thereafter, Washtenaw County sheriffs and police in neighboring jurisdictions reported disc-shaped objects moving at fantastic speeds and making sharp turns, diving and climbing, and hovering. At one point, four UFOs in straight-line formation were observed. Selfridge AFB confirmed tracking UFOs over Lake Erie at 4:56 a.m.

 

Following is the log of "Complaint No. 00967" signed by Cpl. Broderick and Deputy Patterson of the Washtenaw County Sheriff's Department:

 

 

 

http://www.ufologie.net/htm/michi66.htm

[Munch]

Are you , well you took your time in highlighting that did you not.Cannot recall you requesting this.:2thumbsup:The below information might have some barring on this UFO you are enquiring about.

 

 

Michigan 1966:

 

SHERIFFS WATCH HIGH-PERFORMANCE DISCS, ALSO TRACKED ON RADAR:

 

Events from March 14-20, 1966, in Southeastern Michigan, United States of America.

 

March 14, 1966:

 

From about 3:50 a.m. on March 14 and for 2-1/2 hours thereafter, Washtenaw County sheriffs and police in neighboring jurisdictions reported disc-shaped objects moving at fantastic speeds and making sharp turns, diving and climbing, and hovering. At one point, four UFOs in straight-line formation were observed. Selfridge AFB confirmed tracking UFOs over Lake Erie at 4:56 a.m.

 

Following is the log of "Complaint No. 00967" signed by Cpl. Broderick and Deputy Patterson of the Washtenaw County Sheriff's Department:

 

 

 

http://www.ufologie.net/htm/michi66.htm

 

Its a cloud formation

[maroonlegions]

Mate, ignore that psycho who thinks he can travel through time in ten years.

 

This is what i was talking about. I dont want to come across as a crazy conspiracy theorist like yourself.

 

 

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg19225811.300-fold-testament-what-shape-is-the-universe.html

 

 

What you mean this guy.

 

Mallett, a U Conn Physics Professor for 30 years, considered an alternative to these time travel methods based on Einstein?s famous relativity equation: E=mc2.

 

Do not see why mate after all no scientist will always agree with each other, did Einstein not get a bit of ridicule in his early days only for him to wipe the cocky smiles and comments right of their faces.

[maroonlegions]

A Time machine cant see it mate its theoretically impossible there is only one space time continuum.

 

You cannot see it so a guy who has been a physicist for 30 years can.

[maroonlegions]

Its a cloud formation

 

Funny the report says different and since when do clouds get tracked on RADAR.You sure you looked at that report in FULL , my reading specks can at times get blurry too mate.Are you every going to answer my questions i posed to you?

[maroonlegions]

The universe isn't infinite. It's just really big.

 

Been to end of it have you:10900:.What about parallel universes , black holes, worm holes , string theory , other dimensions??Do these have any effect or say on the universe being really big, do they influence it in any way??

[maroonlegions]

Maybee these flying saucers that ML is trying to convince us that they exist, are infact time travelers they pop into our time line check out a windfarm in Falkirk then after a few quick photo shoots they go back to there own time line, hence never any concrete evidence apart from shaky photos on camera phones etc.

 

Never give up do you I HAVE POSTED SEVERAL PHOTOS that show recognisable objects mate but you cannot admit this because it would destroy the shaky photo part of this post. Having trouble answering my questions i put you on several occasions?? check this link from a man who has information from creditable sources unlike your good self dear chap.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/birmingham/realmedia/timothy_good31809.ram

 

How are you getting on with the study links i provided for you , NEEDING A HAND or do you dismiss credible information coming from creditable sources.

[maroonlegions]

Good try spud. But heres the problem. ML is deluded and not someone you will ever be able to reason with. Even his ramblings over on Icke are getting more and more desperate.

 

For normal people - Spud is correct that the way "conspiracy theorists" work is by asking you to disprove their claims, rather than providing evidence themselves. They see that as legtimate reasoning. Of course it is nonsense.

 

Lets try it out -

 

Hibs won the Scottish Cup in 1938. Prove that wrong. And before you try, remember -

 

All official SFA Records were falsified.

The original film of the match was lost and subsituted wth a film of East Fife winning it in a studio in front of paid stooge supporters.

Every single person who was involved in the fake East Fife win is a liar.

 

Therefore - Hibs won it. QED. End of.

 

You can talk about ramblings mate , do you think this man below was rambling when he endorsed Tim Goods books on the information he has collects from reliable sources.

 

Admiral of the Fleet The Lord Hill-Norton, former Chief of the Defence Staff and Chairman of the NATO Military Committee. THERE IN BLACK AND WHITETHE ADMIRAL LORD HILL-NORTON.

 

Never heard of him have you but you feel you are justified in condemning conspiracy's that you really no nothing about but will never admit that will you. That you really no nothing and have done LITTLE if any real digging , admit that and that would make you the deluded one here rambling on about things you have no real understanding off.

 

Please name one Icke book you have read RIGHT through.Name one Icke 3 hour talk presentation you have attended or listen to from links that are available on his site that you are on spying on me.

 

Name one UFO book or reports from serious or credible sources or organisations like MUFON or BUFORA you have read up on.

 

Deluded or reasoning cannot come from a person who really does not know all of the picture or will not see it.

Take your example of the Hibs cup theory and now put that theory in the deluded , does not really have a clue ,no real background knowledge or reasoning ,does not have the perception or insight to read ALL the information available but chooses to concentrate on the character attacks of the information provider file.

 

I see that Robbie Williams is on the Ike UFO forums under a user name after he admitted it on a BBC Radio interview recently.His new single BODIES is about the talk he had with Icke on religion and his new album is full of songs relating to conspiracy theory's he has learnt from Icke.Care to call him deluded or unreasonable or what about a tube.

 

Yet you lie again about me on the Icke forum and i am now asking you to stop it mate.

[deesidejambo]

You can talk about ramblings mate , do you think this man below was rambling when he endorsed Tim Goods books on the information he has collects from reliable sources.

 

Admiral of the Fleet The Lord Hill-Norton, former Chief of the Defence Staff and Chairman of the NATO Military Committee. THERE IN BLACK AND WHITETHE ADMIRAL LORD HILL-NORTON.

 

Never heard of him have you but you feel you are justified in condemning conspiracy's that you really no nothing about but will never admit that will you. That you really no nothing and have done LITTLE if any real digging , admit that and that would make you the deluded one here rambling on about things you have no real understanding off.

 

Please name one Icke book you have read RIGHT through.Name one Icke 3 hour talk presentation you have attended or listen to from links that are available on his site that you are on spying on me.

 

Name one UFO book or reports from serious or credible sources or organisations like MUFON or BUFORA you have read up on.

 

Deluded or reasoning cannot come from a person who really does not know all of the picture or will not see it.

Take your example of the Hibs cup theory and now put that theory in the deluded , does not really have a clue ,no real background knowledge or reasoning ,does not have the perception or insight to read ALL the information available but chooses to concentrate on the character attacks of the information provider file.

 

I see that Robbie Williams is on the Ike UFO forums under a user name after he admitted it on a BBC Radio interview recently.His new single BODIES is about the talk he had with Icke on religion and his new album is full of songs relating to conspiracy theory's he has learnt from Icke.Care to call him deluded or unreasonable or what about a tube.

 

Yet you lie again about me on the Icke forum and i am now asking you to stop it mate.

 

So you actually believe Hibs did win the cup in 1938? East Fife supporters will be devastated.

 

Seriously though, you are delusional. Get help. Or go to Fester Road with the rest of the deluded.

[Munch]

You can talk about ramblings mate , do you think this man below was rambling when he endorsed Tim Goods books on the information he has collects from reliable sources.

 

Admiral of the Fleet The Lord Hill-Norton, former Chief of the Defence Staff and Chairman of the NATO Military Committee. THERE IN BLACK AND WHITETHE ADMIRAL LORD HILL-NORTON.

 

Never heard of him have you but you feel you are justified in condemning conspiracy's that you really no nothing about but will never admit that will you. That you really no nothing and have done LITTLE if any real digging , admit that and that would make you the deluded one here rambling on about things you have no real understanding off.

 

Please name one Icke book you have read RIGHT through.Name one Icke 3 hour talk presentation you have attended or listen to from links that are available on his site that you are on spying on me.

 

Name one UFO book or reports from serious or credible sources or organisations like MUFON or BUFORA you have read up on.

 

Deluded or reasoning cannot come from a person who really does not know all of the picture or will not see it.

Take your example of the Hibs cup theory and now put that theory in the deluded , does not really have a clue ,no real background knowledge or reasoning ,does not have the perception or insight to read ALL the information available but chooses to concentrate on the character attacks of the information provider file.

 

I see that Robbie Williams is on the Ike UFO forums under a user name after he admitted it on a BBC Radio interview recently.His new single BODIES is about the talk he had with Icke on religion and his new album is full of songs relating to conspiracy theory's he has learnt from Icke.Care to call him deluded or unreasonable or what about a tube.

 

Yet you lie again about me on the Icke forum and i am now asking you to stop it mate.

 

He is pretty good is Robbie i think this is my favourite song of his, it would be interesting to hear what song other kickbackers think is robbies best.

 

[scott_jambo]

Never give up do you I HAVE POSTED SEVERAL PHOTOS that show recognisable objects mate but you cannot admit this because it would destroy the shaky photo part of this post. Having trouble answering my questions i put you on several occasions?? check this link from a man who has information from creditable sources unlike your good self dear chap.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/birmingham/realmedia/timothy_good31809.ram

 

How are you getting on with the study links i provided for you , NEEDING A HAND or do you dismiss credible information coming from creditable sources.

 

I just choked on my proverbial corn flakes reading that! ML =

[spud]

Tell me this, do you except that to the UNTRAINED EYE some of these blurry pictures can seem just like they are and that is all they seem to show.

 

Well you never told us that you have to be trained to interpret the photos. How does this training go? Are you shown some blurry photo and if your answer is not a UFO, then you fail?

 

The penalty's for breeching this law are severe ,imprisonment and very big fines.The ability to control and manipulate ALL information on any serious and genuine UFO report or sighting,( be it a blurry photo:10900: or witness statement) is very real and very affective.

 

I see they are really effective but they are breeched all the time. Well which one is it? Effective or not effective?

 

You have also chosen to ignore the facts that you have not proven a thing in the claims that the possibility that we have been visited and could be still now.

 

I can't see how I can make it more clear. I have no evidence whatsoever. I did not make these claims. The burden of evidence is on you. Show us your evidence.

 

There is not enough bandwidth on here to provide you with the evidence of a cover up but there is plenty of information from credible and reliable sources.Tim Goods INFORMATION IS A START FOR YOU TO DIGEST but i trust you will ignore it.

 

Sorry I thought that I made this clear as well, I don't want bandwidths of stuff. I am looking for one single piece of evidence. You are right I have not read Tim Good's book. I am sure that it is excellent and I will not ignore it. Quite the opposite, in fact. So if you don't have one single scrap of evidence to support your claims about a cover up, please supply Tim Good's evidence. Anyone's evidence?

[Bigsmak]

Guys and em, others..

 

regardless of what we can and cannot prove at this moment in time. I will have to admit that I am 100% certain that there are other civilisations out there. 100% certain.

 

Regardless of whether anyone has visited us or not (to be honest I think they haven't, I mean why come all this way and not say hello?

 

Watch this, it puts it in perspective! (full screen and Hi-Def are a must for it)

 

 

How big is the Universe?

[deesidejambo]

 

 

Regardless of whether anyone has visited us or not (to be honest I think they haven't, I mean why come all this way and not say hello?

 

 

Because they have more fun making crop-circles and anal-probing drunk women.

[Bigsmak]

Because they have more fun making crop-circles and anal-probing drunk women.

 

That does sound like fun though.. Well apart from making crop circles.

 

The videos related to the one above are good also

[Cigaro]

Guys and em, others..

 

regardless of what we can and cannot prove at this moment in time. I will have to admit that I am 100% certain that there are other civilisations out there. 100% certain.

 

Regardless of whether anyone has visited us or not (to be honest I think they haven't, I mean why come all this way and not say hello?

 

Watch this, it puts it in perspective! (full screen and Hi-Def are a must for it)

 

 

How big is the Universe?

I have to agree.

[Ulysses]

You cannot see it so a guy who has been a physicist for 30 years can.

 

But he can't do it. After six years faffing about with the concept of slow light he admitted that he couldn't do it. He's still working on time travel, but he hasn't a peer-reviewed clue how to go about it.

 

Moreover, the fact that some physicist somewhere thinks that time travel might be possible doesn't turn cloud formations into spacecraft.

 

The universe is really big, and you need to factor that into your "equations".

 

Why haven't you revealed what you know about the distance travelled by humanity's earliest radio waves?

[Ulysses]

... I am 100% certain that there are other civilisations out there. 100% certain....

 

I reckon there are as well. Or were in the past, or will be in the future. Even the light we see and the waves we read are already so ancient.

 

Out there. Somewhere else. Not here. Not now.

 

It really is that simple.

[spud]

I reckon there are as well.

 

Out there. Somewhere else. Not here. Not now.

 

It really is that simple.

 

I couldn't agree more. The probability that life exists only on Earth is extremely small. As a passionate believer in evolution I have to accept that it is only chance that places carbon as the basis of life.

 

Some bacterial forms on Earth are not carbon based but sulphur based.

 

Other elements such as boron, phosphorus, nitrogen and silicon could theoretically form a base for life. Candidates for solvents, apart from water, include hydrogen chloride and hydrogen sulphide.

 

The universe is a fascinating place without making futile non-scientific claims which reflect nothing but paranoia.

[Ulysses]

The universe is a fascinating place without making futile non-scientific claims which reflect nothing but paranoia.

 

I'm going to nearly agree with you, if that's OK. I think the non-scientific claims are futile and belong in the realms of science fiction. But not all of the people who believe them are motivated by paranoia. Some people who are into their UFOs are actually quite positive. It may sound patronising (and it isn't meant to), but I think their motivation is a form of wishful thinking. They reckon the idea of contact with another civilisation would be pretty cool. And of course it would be. So they might be wrong, but they aren't motivated by paranoia and negativity.

 

But I would completely agree that the UFO landscape is dominated by a lot of paranoid people who just love their conspiracies. And the web gives them the perfect medium to reinforce their paranoia by talking to other people with the same paranoid mindset. They may well enjoy it, and they may well think they are conducting real discussions that will lead their theories to some valid conclusion. But they aren't. There are no peer reviews and no critical analyses. There's no-one to challenge their thinking and give them reality checks about how people think and how proper scientific research gets done in the real world.

 

Closed shop, closed minds and circular logic. You may as well try to plait the rain as conduct a logical discussion with them.

[spud]

Did you know that a D-10 notice is an act from the Government( or those organisations who control and manipulate these governments), that is issued when there is a threat to national security.

 

My 10 year old nephew knows what a D notice is, but thanks for the explanation.

 

The penalty's for breeching this law are severe ,imprisonment and very big fines.The ability to control and manipulate ALL information on any serious and genuine UFO report or sighting,( be it a blurry photo:10900: or witness statement) is very real and very affective. (Now what is yourv take on the non possibility of a cover up or any other conspiracy theory's).

 

This is where I get confused.

 

Now, I understand that there are these D notices and threats and imprisonments and fines and all these Draconian measures that are taken to stop employees spilling the beans about these alien visits. Probably physical threats to their families and them personally, no doubt?

 

But what confuses me is that all your ?evidence? about a cover up comes from employees of places like NASA, or highly respected people high up in the military etc who not only have the audacity to spill the beans about alien visits they actually publish their name, qualifications and the company they work for along with their information! In fact, you never miss an opportunity to tell us that ?the dude works for NASA, so must be in the know?.

 

Now how does that work? Do these organisations not have the internet and don?t know what their employees are doing behind their back?

[Munch]

My 10 year old nephew knows what a D notice is, but thanks for the explanation.

 

 

 

This is where I get confused.

 

Now, I understand that there are these D notices and threats and imprisonments and fines and all these Draconian measures that are taken to stop employees spilling the beans about these alien visits. Probably physical threats to their families and them personally, no doubt?

 

But what confuses me is that all your ?evidence? about a cover up comes from employees of places like NASA, or highly respected people high up in the military etc who not only have the audacity to spill the beans about alien visits they actually publish their name, qualifications and the company they work for along with their information! In fact, you never miss an opportunity to tell us that ?the dude works for NASA, so must be in the know?.

 

Now how does that work? Do these organisations not have the internet and don?t know what their employees are doing behind their back?

 

ML is a trier, and he has posted some decent links to prove his case, unfortunatly he refuses or simply cant provide the credible proof to back up his claims.

 

Shame really after all his efforts i was really hoping he might just ptoduce the goods.

 

Only shaky photos, and the odd link to some obscure crank website does not constitute proof.

 

It is up to ML To prove his case, and it looks like he has came up short.

[maroonlegions]

Have you ever read a physics book in your life?

 

 

 

 

 

 

hyperdimensionally astroplaning through tetrahedrons...

 

 

Nassim Haramein - Crossing the Event Horizon

 

 

Check his interview out http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=ResonanceEmissary

 

Following this physics man.

[Munch]

 

 

 

hyperdimensionally astroplaning through tetrahedrons...

 

 

Nassim Haramein - Crossing the Event Horizon

 

 

Check his interview out http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=ResonanceEmissary

 

Following this physics man.