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Munch

Alien spaceships are impossible.

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Gigolo-Aunt

Link aint working.

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Munch
Link aint working.

 

It is now.:smash:

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Gigolo-Aunt

Im not going to lie to you Barry, that link gave me a headache.

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Heaven98
Well that puts that subject to bed once and for all.

 

http://www.csicop.org/sb/2008-06/deutsch.html [/url]

 

Bold statement. Just waiting for Loon Regions to get on and bring up worm holes and shredding the space/time continuum etc.

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Bigsmak

The guy that wrote it is blinkered. Of course we know that you can't accelerate past the speed of light due to the E=Mc2 formula, Star Trek gets round this by creating a warp field which reduces the Mass of an object to 0. This gets around the equation because 0 x anything is always 0. So basically we just have to work out how to Phase Shift an object and move it that way. This allows for FTL travel...

 

Some people know nothing.

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Cigaro
Bold statement. Just waiting for Loon Regions to get on and bring up worm holes and shredding the space/time continuum etc.

Did he not start the thread?

 

Mucked up link and all?

 

;)

 

Also its sarcastic.

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Heaven98
Did he not start the thread?

 

Mucked up link and all?

 

;)

 

Also its sarcastic.

 

Strangest thing. I've just found a crop circle in my shredded wheat.

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Tiberius Stinkfinger

Thats all well and good but could somebody please explain this then ?

 

fake_ufo.jpg

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Munch
Im not going to lie to you Barry, that link gave me a headache.

 

Its heavy stuff, but at last it ends the space ship stuff on the shed once and for all.:argue:

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I.J

If it's impossible, please explain how Lion-O and the rest of the Thundercats got to Earth.

 

Eh? Eh? EH?!

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Cigaro
If it's impossible, please explain how Lion-O and the rest of the Thundercats got to Earth.

 

Eh? Eh? EH?!

Third Earth.

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I.J
Third Earth.

 

Third Earth is just Earth in the future, silly.

 

That's how Mumm-ra was in his tomb, ready to stir up some almighty heck.

 

:wink:

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Cigaro
Third Earth is just Earth in the future, silly.

 

That's how Mumm-ra was in his tomb, ready to stir up some almighty heck.

 

:wink:

I know, I was just making it accurate.:D

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The Doctor

I am reminded that they used to say that a steam ship would never be able to sail across the Atlantic because it wouldn't be able to float under the weight of the coal required.

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Cigaro
I am reminded that they used to say that a steam ship would never be able to sail across the Atlantic because it wouldn't be able to float under the weight of the coal required.

They were right.

 

The titanic didnt do to well.

 

:P

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djf

Something that's ridiculous when you think about it.

 

We went from the first powered example of flight by the Wright Brothers in 1903

 

10114690C~Wright-Brothers-Historic-First-Flight-Kitty-Hawk-December-17-1903-Posters.jpg

 

To

 

Landing a man on the moon just 66 years later.

 

space5.JPG

 

 

Crazy.

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Greedy_Jambo

The moon landing was faked. Duh.

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N User

Pish.

 

If I weren't calling it pish, I'd also say that the writer assumes that our known laws of physics are the correct laws of physics.

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maroonlegions

In 1952, in his book Relativity, in discussing Minkowski's Space World interpretation of his theory of relativity, Einstein writes:

 

"Since there exists in this four dimensional structure [space-time] no longer any sections which represent "now" objectively, the concepts of happening and becoming are indeed not completely suspended, but yet complicated. It appears therefore more natural to think of physical reality as a four dimensional existence, instead of, as hitherto, the evolution of a three dimensional existence".

 

Einstein's belief in an undivided solid reality was clear to him, so much so that he completely rejected the separation we experience as the moment of now. He believed there is no true division between past and future, there is rather a single existence. His most descriptive testimony to this faith came when his lifelong friend Besso died. Einstein wrote a letter to Besso's family, saying that although Besso had preceded him in death it was of no consequence, "...for us physicists believe the separation between past, present, and future is only an illusion, although a convincing one.":sorcerer:

 

Most everyone knows that Einstein proved that time is relative, not absolute as Newton claimed. With the proper technology, such as a very fast spaceship, one person is able to experience several days while another person simultaneously experiences only a few hours or minutes. The same two people can meet up again, one having experienced days or even years while the other has only experienced minutes. The person in the spaceship only needs to travel near to the speed of light:sorcerer:. The faster they travel, the slower their time will pass relative to someone planted firmly on the Earth. If they were able to travel at the speed of light, their time would cease completely and they would only exist trapped in timelessness. Einstein could hardly believe there were physicists who didn?t believe in timelessness, and yet the wisdom of Einstein's convictions had very little impact on cosmology or science in general. The majority of physicists have been slow to give up the ordinary assumptions we make about time.:qqb009:

 

The two most highly recognized physicists since Einstein made similar conclusions and even made dramatic advances toward a timeless perspective of the universe, yet they also were unable to change the temporal mentality ingrained in the mainstream of physics and society. Einstein was followed in history by the colorful and brilliant Richard Feynman. Feynman developed the most effective and explanatory interpretation of quantum mechanics that had yet been developed, known today as Sum over Histories.

parallel

 

 

While far from an expert on the mathematics and physics of the possibilities of space or even time travel from other worlds, not to mention the POSSIBLE travel from other DIMENSIONS , i do see the point here on it not being possible.The thing that gets me is WHY must the laws, (that we have discovered about time travel and the physics required),be total gospel and applied to all the universe?Given the fact that man has had only a 100 years at understanding our current discoveries of technology? Why is it not possible that a highly advance race of say 500,000 years or even light years have discovered ways of by passing this apparent obstacle to possible space/time travel?Even the great man Einstein did NOT rule out this possibility of even us achieving this goal so who is to say other civilisations have not done so already.The possibility of say other DIMENSIONS/parallel universes that a number of scientists now accept is possible should be taken into account too.

Edited by maroonlegions
other DIMENSIONS/parallel universes ???

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Bigsmak

Few points..

 

Steven Hawkin is in Hospital today and said to be Very ill.. - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8008767.stm

 

And talking of progress in the last 100 years.. This is from a website about Atheism that I stumbled upon.

atheist motivational posters

 

I am not trying to stir anything up on the God debate...

 

atheism_motivational_poster_20.jpg

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BlackJAC?

What - those weren't UFOs I was seeing all those years ago?

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Guest S.U.S.S.
I am reminded that they used to say that a steam ship would never be able to sail across the Atlantic because it wouldn't be able to float under the weight of the coal required.

 

Did they say it to you personally?

 

Or is this second or third hand info?

 

We NEED to know!:smash:

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Ulysses
Why is it not possible that a highly advance race of say 500,000 years or even light years have discovered ways of by passing this apparent obstacle to possible space/time travel?

 

???

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Romanov Stole My Pension
???

 

My thoughts exactly.:sorcerer:

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Seats
In 1952, in his book Relativity, in discussing Minkowski's Space World interpretation of his theory of relativity, Einstein writes:

 

"Since there exists in this four dimensional structure [space-time] no longer any sections which represent "now" objectively, the concepts of happening and becoming are indeed not completely suspended, but yet complicated. It appears therefore more natural to think of physical reality as a four dimensional existence, instead of, as hitherto, the evolution of a three dimensional existence".

 

Einstein's belief in an undivided solid reality was clear to him, so much so that he completely rejected the separation we experience as the moment of now. He believed there is no true division between past and future, there is rather a single existence. His most descriptive testimony to this faith came when his lifelong friend Besso died. Einstein wrote a letter to Besso's family, saying that although Besso had preceded him in death it was of no consequence, "...for us physicists believe the separation between past, present, and future is only an illusion, although a convincing one.":sorcerer:

 

Most everyone knows that Einstein proved that time is relative, not absolute as Newton claimed. With the proper technology, such as a very fast spaceship, one person is able to experience several days while another person simultaneously experiences only a few hours or minutes. The same two people can meet up again, one having experienced days or even years while the other has only experienced minutes. The person in the spaceship only needs to travel near to the speed of light:sorcerer:. The faster they travel, the slower their time will pass relative to someone planted firmly on the Earth. If they were able to travel at the speed of light, their time would cease completely and they would only exist trapped in timelessness. Einstein could hardly believe there were physicists who didn?t believe in timelessness, and yet the wisdom of Einstein's convictions had very little impact on cosmology or science in general. The majority of physicists have been slow to give up the ordinary assumptions we make about time.:qqb009:

 

The two most highly recognized physicists since Einstein made similar conclusions and even made dramatic advances toward a timeless perspective of the universe, yet they also were unable to change the temporal mentality ingrained in the mainstream of physics and society. Einstein was followed in history by the colorful and brilliant Richard Feynman. Feynman developed the most effective and explanatory interpretation of quantum mechanics that had yet been developed, known today as Sum over Histories.

parallel

 

 

While far from an expert on the mathematics and physics of the possibilities of space or even time travel from other worlds, not to mention the POSSIBLE travel from other DIMENSIONS , i do see the point here on it not being possible.The thing that gets me is WHY must the laws, (that we have discovered about time travel and the physics required),be total gospel and applied to all the universe?Given the fact that man has had only a 100 years at understanding our current discoveries of technology? Why is it not possible that a highly advance race of say 500,000 years or even light years have discovered ways of by passing this apparent obstacle to possible space/time travel?Even the great man Einstein did NOT rule out this possibility of even us achieving this goal so who is to say other civilisations have not done so already.The possibility of say other DIMENSIONS/parallel universes that a number of scientists now accept is possible should be taken into account too.

 

Could someone who has actually read one of ML's posts (I am assuming someone must have managed it) give me a brief synopsis please? :err:

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I.J
Could someone who has actually read one of ML's posts (I am assuming someone must have managed it) give me a brief synopsis please? :err:

 

Einstein was a clever ^^^^, and even he didn't rule stuff out.

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Hambone
Could someone who has actually read one of ML's posts (I am assuming someone must have managed it) give me a brief synopsis please? :err:

 

We are not alone

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Say What Again
Few points..

 

Steven Hawkin is in Hospital today and said to be Very ill.. - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8008767.stm

 

Cool, there might be another RIP thread to look forward to :wheelchair::skull:

 

 

I can't wait to find out who's (still) more morale, dignified and respectful than my neanderthal self.

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John Gentleman
The possibility of say other DIMENSIONS/parallel universes that a number of scientists now accept is possible should be taken into account too.

 

If there is more than one universe, then they can't be 'universes' can they? We'd have to rename them. How about 'Entities'? Our present 'universe' could be named 'Entity 1', the next door neighbour 'Entity 2' and so on and so forth.

 

The thing that I can't get my head around is this time/space correlation. For example, thanks to Hubble, Galaxy A1689-zD1 is estimated at 13 billion light years 'old' - a mere whisker away from the big bang. But what we see is what it looked like 13 billion years ago. I wonder what it looks like NOW; at this very instant, as I sit and sip a beer and indulge in a complementary fart!

 

We'll never know. All too much for my auld grey heid I'm afraid.

 

Off to raid the fridge for another tinnie......

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maroonlegions
If there is more than one universe, then they can't be 'universes' can they? We'd have to rename them. How about 'Entities'? Our present 'universe' could be named 'Entity 1', the next door neighbour 'Entity 2' and so on and so forth.

 

The thing that I can't get my head around is this time/space correlation. For example, thanks to Hubble, Galaxy A1689-zD1 is estimated at 13 billion light years 'old' - a mere whisker away from the big bang. But what we see is what it looked like 13 billion years ago. I wonder what it looks like NOW; at this very instant, as I sit and sip a beer and indulge in a complementary fart!

 

We'll never know. All too much for my auld grey heid I'm afraid.

 

Off to raid the fridge for another tinnie......

 

 

 

Eh i meant universe, slip of the old keyboard i am afraid:qqb016:.You are quite right in your raiding of ones fridge for another beer, feck its understandable.While i am no expert of time/space correlation my point was what kind of civilisations have evolved way beyond us?What could be their understanding of space or even time travel , technology advancements, spiritual evolutions?What and if could be their achievements in their scientific understanding of our present day knowledge of physics?These points have to be taken into consideration when throwing the bairn oot with the bath water when rejecting any possible advanced civilisation having considerable advancements and achievements in the points raised on space travel ect.The even possible existence of other dimensions, parallel UNIVERSE that has been recognised by a lot of scientific people is not really excepted as a real argument by most sceptics who see the WHOLE universe as having to be restrained to our present way of thinking and understanding.:qqb010:Take the below theory on worm holes or string theory base on Albert's Es findings and the possibility that those far advanced of us see that as just a lesson taught to primary kids, that's my main point.

 

 

 

 

Metrics.

 

Theories of wormhole metrics describe the spacetime geometry of a wormhole and serve as theoretical models for time travel. An example of a (traversable) wormhole metric is the following:

 

ds^2= - c^2 dt^2 + dl^2 + (k^2 + l^2)(d \theta^2 + \sin^2 \theta \, d\phi^2).

 

One type of non-traversable wormhole metric is the Schwarzschild solution:

 

ds^2= - c^2 \left(1 - \frac{2GM}{rc^2}\right)dt^2 + \frac{dr^2}{1 - \frac{2GM}{rc^2}} + r^2(d \theta^2 + \sin^2 \theta \, d\phi^2).

:qqb016:,

 

 

Feck time for a beer a large release of wind.

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maroonlegions
Well that puts that subject to bed once and for all.

 

http://www.csicop.org/sb/2008-06/deutsch.html [/url]

 

 

Well i will keep my mind open ,for this universe is to awesome and unimaginably vast, what's out there is anyone's guess ,so put to bed it might be for some people,(that's their right of view/opinion) . I reserve the right to have an open mind.New things are being discovered all the time.I for one would rather have it continue that way than be sold the idea that just because anomalies or unknowns do not conform to our PRESENT understanding of Physics ,technology ect , it cannot be possible throughout the HOLE of the universe never mind possible other dimensions. With all due respect, i personally feel that we aint seen nothing yet, things are gonna get stranger , especially in the UFO enigma.Who is to say that UFOs or unknown objects do not originate from OTHER DIMENSIONS AND NOT PLANETS???

 

 

 

 

 

SETI, the Velocity-of-Light Limitation, and the Alcubierre Warp Drive

 

H.E. Puthoff, Ph.D. - Physics Essays, Vol. 9, No. 1, pp. 156-158, 1996

 

original source | fair use notice

 

Summary: Alcubierre's recent "warp drive" analysis within the context of general relativistic dynamics, indicates the naivete of the assumption of impossibility of faster-than-light-speed travel. We show here that Alcubierre's result is a particular case of a broad, general approach that might loosely be called "metric engineering," the details of which provide yet further support for the concept that reduced-time interstellar travel, either by advanced extraterrestrial civilizations at present or ourselves in the future, is not, as naive consideration might hold, fundamentally constrained by physical principles.:qqb009:

 

Harold E. Puthoff , Ph.D.

author's bio

 

Abstract

 

In SETI (Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence) conventional wisdom has it that the probability of direct contact by interstellar travel is vanishingly small due to the enormous distances involved, coupled with the velocity-of-light limitation. Alcubierre's recent "warp drive" analysis [Class. Quantum Grav. 11, L 73 (1994)] within the context of general relativistic dynamics, however, indicates the naivete of this assumption. We show here that Alcubierre's result is a particular case of a broad, general approach that might loosely be called "metric engineering," the details of which provide yet further support for the concept that reduced-time interstellar travel, either by advanced extraterrestrial civilizations at present or ourselves in the future, is not, as naive consideration might hold, fundamentally constrained by physical principles.

 

Key words: SETI, velocity of light, general relativistic dynamics, space-time metric, interstellar travel, vacuum energy, Casimir effect, vacuum engineering, warp drive, superluminal travel

 

SETI researchers routinely subscribe to the view that interstellar travel between civilizations is exceedingly improbable due to the velocity-of-light limitation, with but few dissenting views offered.(1,2). Hence there has evolved, on the one hand, the emphasis on searches of the electromagnetic spectrum for information-bearing signals and, on the other, the reasoned dismissal by the scientific community of any evidence purported to be a signature of extraterrestrial visitation. (3)

 

As shown recently by Alcubierre, however, rejection of the concept of hyperfast (superluminal) travel is not justified when one takes into account the possibility of engineered dynamic space-times within the context of general relativity. (4) Specifically, Alcubierre showed by example that by distorting the local space-time metric in the region of a spaceship in a certain prescribed way, it would be possible to achieve motion faster than the speed of light as seen by observers outside the disturbed region, without violating the local velocity-of-light constraint within the region.

 

Furthermore, the Alcubierre solution shows that the proper acceleration along the spaceship's path would be zero and the spaceship would suffer no time dilation, features presumably attractive in interstellar travel. We present here a supporting viewpoint that further explicates the Alcubierre approach as a special case of an overarching concept of metric engineering that can be stated in an especially compact form, fully incorporating general relativistic dynamics.

 

To elaborate the metric engineering perspective, we begin with the apparent velocity-of-light limitation. As a physical concept this limitation is based on the fact that mass and energy find mathematical expression in a form proportional to 1/[l-(v/c)2] 1/2, which implies that an infinite amount of energy would be required just to accelerate a mass to the velocity of light v = c. A hidden assumption in the argument that this constitutes a practical limitation with regard to interstellar travel, however, is the idea that the value c is a fixed, immutable constant of nature, understood in a straightforward, natural way. It is this crucial assumption that is called into question and redefined, however, by the metric engineering approach. :sorcerer:

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maroonlegions

This thread was started from an article from the Sceptical Enquirer , so i thought it fitting to (and no disrespect intended to the OP), include this link for sceptics/non sceptics to browse and pontificate on.:qqb016:While i am not disagreeing with the mathematics and physics arguments from the OP , its rather using that as a be all and end all of ALL possibilities that could be more advanced and understood by other possible civilisations in this vast universe.The understanding of possible other dimensions is another factor.

 

 

 

http://www.freeinquiry.com/skeptic/resources/articles/wu-debunking-skeptical.htm#Introduction

Edited by maroonlegions

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Cigaro

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:sorcerer:

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maroonlegions
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:sorcerer:

 

 

 

 

Einstein100th.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

Took the words right out of my mouth.

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Cigaro
Einstein100th.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

Took the words right out of my mouth.

Theres a fair chance.

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Munch
Well i will keep my mind open ,for this universe is to awesome and unimaginably vast, what's out there is anyone's guess ,so put to bed it might be for some people,(that's their right of view/opinion) . I reserve the right to have an open mind.New things are being discovered all the time.I for one would rather have it continue that way than be sold the idea that just because anomalies or unknowns do not conform to our PRESENT understanding of Physics ,technology ect , it cannot be possible throughout the HOLE of the universe never mind possible other dimensions. With all due respect, i personally feel that we aint seen nothing yet, things are gonna get stranger , especially in the UFO enigma.Who is to say that UFOs or unknown objects do not originate from OTHER DIMENSIONS AND NOT PLANETS???

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

SETI, the Velocity-of-Light Limitation, and the Alcubierre Warp Drive

 

H.E. Puthoff, Ph.D. - Physics Essays, Vol. 9, No. 1, pp. 156-158, 1996

 

original source | fair use notice

 

Summary: Alcubierre's recent "warp drive" analysis within the context of general relativistic dynamics, indicates the naivete of the assumption of impossibility of faster-than-light-speed travel. We show here that Alcubierre's result is a particular case of a broad, general approach that might loosely be called "metric engineering," the details of which provide yet further support for the concept that reduced-time interstellar travel, either by advanced extraterrestrial civilizations at present or ourselves in the future, is not, as naive consideration might hold, fundamentally constrained by physical principles.:qqb009:

 

Harold E. Puthoff , Ph.D.

author's bio

 

Abstract

 

In SETI (Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence) conventional wisdom has it that the probability of direct contact by interstellar travel is vanishingly small due to the enormous distances involved, coupled with the velocity-of-light limitation. Alcubierre's recent "warp drive" analysis [Class. Quantum Grav. 11, L 73 (1994)] within the context of general relativistic dynamics, however, indicates the naivete of this assumption. We show here that Alcubierre's result is a particular case of a broad, general approach that might loosely be called "metric engineering," the details of which provide yet further support for the concept that reduced-time interstellar travel, either by advanced extraterrestrial civilizations at present or ourselves in the future, is not, as naive consideration might hold, fundamentally constrained by physical principles.

 

Key words: SETI, velocity of light, general relativistic dynamics, space-time metric, interstellar travel, vacuum energy, Casimir effect, vacuum engineering, warp drive, superluminal travel

 

SETI researchers routinely subscribe to the view that interstellar travel between civilizations is exceedingly improbable due to the velocity-of-light limitation, with but few dissenting views offered.(1,2). Hence there has evolved, on the one hand, the emphasis on searches of the electromagnetic spectrum for information-bearing signals and, on the other, the reasoned dismissal by the scientific community of any evidence purported to be a signature of extraterrestrial visitation. (3)

 

As shown recently by Alcubierre, however, rejection of the concept of hyperfast (superluminal) travel is not justified when one takes into account the possibility of engineered dynamic space-times within the context of general relativity. (4) Specifically, Alcubierre showed by example that by distorting the local space-time metric in the region of a spaceship in a certain prescribed way, it would be possible to achieve motion faster than the speed of light as seen by observers outside the disturbed region, without violating the local velocity-of-light constraint within the region.

 

Furthermore, the Alcubierre solution shows that the proper acceleration along the spaceship's path would be zero and the spaceship would suffer no time dilation, features presumably attractive in interstellar travel. We present here a supporting viewpoint that further explicates the Alcubierre approach as a special case of an overarching concept of metric engineering that can be stated in an especially compact form, fully incorporating general relativistic dynamics.

 

To elaborate the metric engineering perspective, we begin with the apparent velocity-of-light limitation. As a physical concept this limitation is based on the fact that mass and energy find mathematical expression in a form proportional to 1/[l-(v/c)2] 1/2, which implies that an infinite amount of energy would be required just to accelerate a mass to the velocity of light v = c. A hidden assumption in the argument that this constitutes a practical limitation with regard to interstellar travel, however, is the idea that the value c is a fixed, immutable constant of nature, understood in a straightforward, natural way. It is this crucial assumption that is called into question and redefined, however, by the metric engineering approach. :sorcerer:

 

My original post was designed to end this debate once and for all.The proof is there in the original link i posted.:sterb119:

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maroonlegions

 

 

This was filmed on a mobile phone camera in NW London, its like something oot the X- FILES.

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maroonlegions
My original post was designed to end this debate once and for all.The proof is there in the original link i posted.:sterb119:

 

Designed but the debated by me but was not on the the mathematics or physics of your post but the possibilities of there being other forms of intelligence who could over come these 2 primary obstacles.I reserve my right to that point and opinion.

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Bigsmak
Designed but the debated by me but was not on the the mathematics or physics of your post but the possibilities of there being other forms of intelligence who could over come these 2 primary obstacles.I reserve my right to that point and opinion.

 

Have to agree with Maroon on this.

 

The article should be titled, "using scientific principles that we know about, alien space ships can not exist. "

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maroonlegions
Have to agree with Maroon on this.

 

The article should be titled, "using scientific principles that we know about, alien space ships can not exist. "

 

 

Pants, wish i had thought of that quote. Good shout.

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Ulysses

Still trying to figure out that years or even light years thing. :ninja:

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maroonlegions

A couple of quotes that for me sums up my intuition or gut feelings.

 

 

 

 

"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science." - Albert Einstein:yes2:

 

"Let the mind be enlarged... to the grandeur of the mysteries, and not the mysteries contracted to the narrowness of the mind" - Francis Bacon:euro:

 

"The universe is strange but our perception of it is stranger because it is beyond our current imaginations to perceive it even in our imaginations". :idea:

 

The last quote was from memory :qqb016:, something like that was quoted by Arthur. C. Clark. :qqb016:

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Munch
Designed but the debated by me but was not on the the mathematics or physics of your post but the possibilities of there being other forms of intelligence who could over come these 2 primary obstacles.I reserve my right to that point and opinion.

 

Sorry to burst your bubble but the facts are there are no Aliens out there, there is no proof that Aliens Exist.

 

Unless you can provide evidence of First Contact.:worthless_thread:

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maroonlegions
Sorry to burst your bubble but the facts are there are no Aliens out there, there is no proof that Aliens Exist.

 

Unless you can provide evidence of First Contact.:worthless_thread:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgD7Aerqlrg

 

 

Not saying the above link proves it but it is interesting what your view is on the POSSIBILITY of OTHER life forms in the universe and the possible advances they have achieved?? It has taken humans how long to achieve, flight, radio, tv, medicines, computer software,ect,We have had just 100 years of technology, so what kind of advancements will highly advanced civilisations out there achieve? I take it you do not consider or except all the evidence that has come from first hand witness reports , abduction cases ,close up sightings , radar tracking and military jet scrambles and chases of unknown and apparently highly advanced technology displayed in some of these objects??Proof,(physical), is understandable but it can come in other ways and it can come not just in the physical , it can come in the many testimonies, MODs freedom of information act on UFO reports.My bubble is not bursts i am afraid. Until you can come up with a valid explanation as to WHY the possibility of highly advanced civilisations, away a head of us in technology and science, CANNOT exist, (because our current UNDERSTANDING on technology and science has to be the same for ALL possible intelligent civilisations in the WHOLE universe??). If you would care to provide evidence and proof that this is the case i will of course keep an open mind on it but until then the possibility and questions , for me any way will remain open. I repeat that i can see no reason as to why there is not possible intelligent civilisations in this vast universe.Can we really judge on this scale of what we know of science and technology to presume that we know everything.

Edited by maroonlegions
we know everything(we like to persume)

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maroonlegions

A law of science, determined by Albert Einstein, says nothing can travel faster than the speed of light - 186,000 miles per second. The fastest object made by man, the Voyager spacecraft is travelling along at 11 miles per second. At that rate, the scientific probe Voyager, launched in 1977, would take 73,000 years to reach the nearest star.

 

As a result, some scientists think that sort of space travel is a waste of time.

 

"Scientifically, we have a rule: you want to be alive at the end of your experiment, not dead," said Dr. Neil deGrasse Tyson, director of the Rose Center's Hayden Planetarium at the American Museum of Natural History in New York.

 

Einstein's Wormhole Loophole

 

If humans can't travel to the stars, many scientists say extraterrestrial life can't come here either.

 

However, Michio Kaku, one of the leading theoretical physicists in the world, says many scientists are too quick to dismiss the idea of other civilizations visiting Earth.

 

Einstein may have said nothing can go faster than the speed of light, but he also left a loophole, said Kaku, a professor at the City University of New York. In Einstein's theory, space and time is a fabric.

 

Kaku explained: "In school we learned that a straight line is the shortest distance between two points. But actually that's not true. You see, if you fold the sheet of paper and punch a hole through it, you begin to realize that a wormhole is the shortest distance between two points.":sorcerer:

 

A civilization that could harness the power of stars might be able to use that shortcut through space and time, and perhaps bridge the vast distances of space to reach Earth, he said.:sorcerer:

 

"The fundamental mistake people make when thinking about extraterrestrial intelligence is to assume that they're just like us except a few hundred years more advanced. I say open your mind, open your consciousness to the possibility that they are a million years ahead," he said.:detective:

 

Kaku believes that only this type of civilization - millions of years more advanced that us and capable of using wormholes as shortcuts - could reach Earth and might be one explanation for UFOs.

 

"When you look at this handful of [uFO] cases that cannot be easily dismissed, this is worthy of scientific investigation," he said. "Maybe there's nothing there. However, on that off chance that there is something there, that could literally change the course of human history. So I say let this investigation begin.":bravo:

 

 

Academic Resources

REMEMBRANCE

In Memory of

John E. Mack, M.D.

1929-2004

NEWS & EVENTS

Commemorative Edition of Dr. John Mack's "Passport to the Cosmos" IN STORES NOW October 2008

The Witness newspaper reports on Ariel School documentary, 2008. Updated 2008-08-26!

Dr John Mack featured in The Psychospiritual Clinician's Handbook: Spring 2005 publication

2007 Shift Report available now from IONS

BBCRadio4 half hour special about Dr Mack still available

John Mack essay reprinted in T.E. Lawrence Society newsletter

Psychotherapist Says Close Encounters can lead to Spiritual Enlightenment

Austrian radio explores alien encounters with McNally and Bueche, from June 2005 (mp3)

Sub Rosa magazine profiles the late Dr Mack: free download

Andrew Beath's book Consciousness in Action features conversation with Dr. John Mack

Interview with Dr Mack appears in new book by David Jay Brown

New Thomas Kuhn biography by J. Keay Davidson coming in 2005

 

 

BBCRadio4 special about Dr Mack audio is now available!

 

 

 

 

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maroonlegions

merchant.mvc?Screen=PLST&Store_Code=WD

 

 

 

Well worth a wee nosy butchers. From a man who has study ancient texts and pieced together some possible links that ancient extraterrestrial civilisations have ALREADY visited here.The ancient Sumerian civilisation texts are filled with some interesting stuff and may possibly point to past visitations.Who knows but there appears to be one tablet from them in a museum that points to this as do others.

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maroonlegions

merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=WD&Product_Code=TEC-HB&Category_Code=

 

 

 

Well worth a wee nosy butchers. From a man who has study ancient texts and pieced together some possible links that ancient extraterrestrial civilisations have ALREADY visited here.The ancient Sumerian civilisation texts are filled with some interesting stuff and may possibly point to past visitations.Who knows but there appears to be one tablet from them in a museum that points to this as do others.

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