National rail strikes planned by RMT

[Ked]

13 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

But what state support does it get?

 

This is from SNCF themselves just last month. The state appears to have written of 35bn euros of debt and provided another 4.05bn euros in capital support.

https://www.sncf.com/en/group/finance/investor-relations

Strong support from the French State

• The French State has stepped up to support SNCF Group when we needed it, assuming €35 billion in debt and subscribing to a €4.05 billion capital increase after the Covid-19 crisis.
• SNCF Group is wholly owned by the French State, and shares may not be sold or transferred. The State appoints our CEO and one-third of our board of directors.
• SNCF carries out strategic missions for the State. These include our key role in the economy, employment, regional development, commuter mobility and equal access to every part of France, as well as our contributions to meeting COP 21 targets for greenhouse gas reduction, the energy transition and national defence.
• A large share of our revenue comes from regulated transport delivered under contracts with regional authorities.

 

Over the same period there was 20 billion went to the UK rail industry from taxpayers.

Followed by 4 billion and proceeded by 2 -4 billionsince 2012 of taxpayer subsidy.

UK train drivers/engineers are far better paid than their French counterparts.

In fact as far as I can see the only countries which pay more are Japan and the USA.

But hey you are entitled to support them.

In Scotland where the government now owns them the money that needs finding to supplement the  wage rises will mean monies cut from elsewhere.

Obviously I've has one suggest that I pay more tax which shows just how selfish this (especially the drivers) dispute is.

[hmfcbilly]

5 minutes ago, Ked said:

Look mate despite my postings I'm happy to see folk get a decent wage.

On your last paragraph.

The market dictates what a trades person earns.And they pay tax either self employed employed or business like everyone else.

Obviously there is homers for cash etc.

The difference is that any wage increases cannot be paid for by the rail industry profits.

Those profits don't come close to covering it.

I want everyone to earn a fair wage too so agree 100% on that. Unfortunately there will always be folk earning more than others, some folk will feel aggrieved, others will strive to get that break that takes them to higher earnings. Everyone should get a liveable wage though regardless. 

 

As for markets dictating what a trades person earns... yes, to a degree thats true but there's plenty folk taking advantage of the supply/demand/covid pushing all material up right now. That goes for suppliers, merchants and trades people themselves. Cant knock it.. if folk are willing to pay it then they'll keep charging it. 

Self employed folk do indeed pay tax but a fair few do their best to avoid paying it on a decent part of their income and not just via homers. There are ways and means as they say....doing a smaller job for Joe public but adding the materials on to a bigger contract job then taking cash for the labour on smaller job is fairly common for one. 

 

As for rail industry profits....well part of the new scotrail pay deal is for money to be paid to all staff each month when revenue profit targets are exceeded. That's already been hit first 2 months of this financial year so I'd be wary of believing everything you read online or in the mainstream media as factually correct. There's a lot of lazy journalism out there these days 

[Ked]

1 minute ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

Not 'we' or 'all of us' but 'you' - hope Ked has broad shoulders...

That's how much he cares though.

They don't care that every household already subsidises their industry to the tune of 600 per year.

They think that either we pay more or other services get less.

But they somehow turn it round that I don't want them to be able to heat their homes.

Funny as fek actually 

[hmfcbilly]

4 minutes ago, Ked said:

That's how much he cares though.

They don't care that every household already subsidises their industry to the tune of 600 per year.

They think that either we pay more or other services get less.

But they somehow turn it round that I don't want them to be able to heat their homes.

Funny as fek actually 

Can I ask where you got that figure from? Not disputing it but would just like to see where you get your info from. Also, you could probably apply that logic to every public sector...local authority department, health service, teaching etc.broken down as a cost per head of population. Folk are entitled to their opinion of course but would you suggest only folk with children pay towards education? I like to look at my taxes more simply....as I'm an employee, I pay the correct amount of tax as dictated by the powers that be (in my case the SNP). It thrn goes in a big pot to be distributed by the folk who are paid to make those decisions. Sadly I dont always agree with how it's spent but then that's life in general eh! Cant all agree on everything

[Ked]

1 minute ago, hmfcbilly said:

Can I ask where you got that figure from? Not disputing it but would just like to see where you get your info from. Also, you could probably apply that logic to every public sector...local authority department, health service, teaching etc.broken down as a cost per head of population. Folk are entitled to their opinion of course but would you suggest only folk with children pay towards education? I like to look at my taxes more simply....as I'm an employee, I pay the correct amount of tax as dictated by the powers that be (in my case the SNP). It thrn goes in a big pot to be distributed by the folk who are paid to make those decisions. Sadly I dont always agree with how it's spent but then that's life in general eh! Cant all agree on everything

Of course we can apply costs to every service.And there are many things where tax money is spent that I don't agree with.

The rail network is an infrastructure worth investing in and it needs modernised.On a few fronts.

And reasonable wage increases are to be expected .But there are some antiquated work practices refusal to modernise and no one seems to accept or explain how they will fund these wage rises.

I will post a link about the cost per household.

 

[Footballfirst]

4 minutes ago, Ked said:

That's how much he cares though.

They don't care that every household already subsidises their industry to the tune of 600 per year.

They think that either we pay more or other services get less.

But they somehow turn it round that I don't want them to be able to heat their homes.

Funny as fek actually 

Not every activity within an economy needs to be profitable.

 

Individual countries make their own decisions about what are regarded as essential services.  In France's case, the railway industry is viewed as an important employer, innovator, exporter etc.  It therefore receives regular state aid to allow it to continue to provide a service and generate economic activity

 

John Major's Tory government decided to privatise the railways. It was a decision doomed to failure as has been evidenced by multiple failures of the train operating companies as they have sought profits at a cost to the travelling public.

 

 

[hmfcbilly]

1 minute ago, Ked said:

Of course we can apply costs to every service.And there are many things where tax money is spent that I don't agree with.

The rail network is an infrastructure worth investing in and it needs modernised.On a few fronts.

And reasonable wage increases are to be expected .But there are some antiquated work practices refusal to modernise and no one seems to accept or explain how they will fund these wage rises.

I will post a link about the cost per household.

 

👍 appreciate the link. 

Do you work in the rail industry or have done in the past? I do work in it and, whilst I'd agree there are aspects of it that could benefit from being modernised, you could again apply that to most businesses, especially public sector ones like local authorities. (Speaking from experience on that last comment). 

[hmfcbilly]

4 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

Not every activity within an economy needs to be profitable.

 

Individual countries make their own decisions about what are regarded as essential services.  In France's case, the railway industry is viewed as an important employer, innovator, exporter etc.  It therefore receives regular state aid to allow it to continue to provide a service and generate economic activity

 

John Major's Tory government decided to privatise the railways. It was a decision doomed to failure as has been evidenced by multiple failures of the train operating companies as they have sought profits at a cost to the travelling public.

 

 

Agreed. For me, privatisation has been tried and tested now for over 30 years. There seems to have been more failures than success stories. I'd love nothing more for essential services to be run not for profit (transport, utilities, even health service to an extent) but they would need managed by the right people who can think outwith the box and change when its required. Far too much 'ae been' mentalities about 

[Ked]

21 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

Not every activity within an economy needs to be profitable.

 

Individual countries make their own decisions about what are regarded as essential services.  In France's case, the railway industry is viewed as an important employer, innovator, exporter etc.  It therefore receives regular state aid to allow it to continue to provide a service and generate economic activity

 

John Major's Tory government decided to privatise the railways. It was a decision doomed to failure as has been evidenced by multiple failures of the train operating companies as they have sought profits at a cost to the travelling public.

 

 

That's a different argument and the privatisation of the railways has not been successful.

I took from your original post that France backed up with cash while the UK did not.

5 billion per year since privatisation and a further 16 billion over the pandemic.

My argument is that continually the unions have fought to keep antiquated practices despite technological advances in place.

Examples being full crews attending faults where 2 men and technology would suffice.

And I'm not sure if any rail network in Europe is profitable.However their workforce falls behind in pay in comparison to the UK and they have a better streamed service with much better stock.

There is faults major ones with the set up here but the unions have to change and not oppose every single thing that leads to a better service.

The wage demands to me are not justifiec

[Ked]

26 minutes ago, hmfcbilly said:

👍 appreciate the link. 

Do you work in the rail industry or have done in the past? I do work in it and, whilst I'd agree there are aspects of it that could benefit from being modernised, you could again apply that to most businesses, especially public sector ones like local authorities. (Speaking from experience on that last comment). 

Sorry can only find reference to Shapps equivalence to the 16 billion paid over the covid.

So I'm assuming that's how it worked out.

Privatisation of the railways has only worked because of subsidy and I accept the infrastructure is needed.

I have never worked on the network.

And despite what some have posted I didn't fail my drivers test or have never applied.

A lot of my mates do/have worked on it and I've been asked if I'd like to.

They do alright and none of them have shagged my wife.

😄

Where I do argue is the union that represents you has a definite political side.And that they appear to oppose much needed change.

And yes local authority services seem to move that much slower.

Interestingly when it comes to construction and government funded projects that I've worked on there does seem to be a bit more gulping from the trough.

Scottish Parliament which I worked on for a good few years was a licence to pretty much steal.

The contract was about as naive as they come with the main contractor Bovis being on 10% of the final bill.

I mean come on .

The Tram network which I was on for a short while was perhaps the worst bit of management I've witnessed.

Back to the railways .

And the strike.I find I cannot support it and I have read both sides arguments.It also irks me a little that somehow I'm the selfish viewpoint on this.

Why because I don't want to pay more tax apparently.

Anyway appreciate you giving your views without involving my wife.

😄

[The Mighty Thor]

1 hour ago, Ked said:

They don't care that every household already subsidises their industry to the tune of 600 per year.

I see this one getting trotted out a lot. Usually in the Nazi and the Express.

 

The question you should be asking is where did all those 600 quids go?

 

Wasn't it really strange that the TOC made huge profits during the pandemic when everyone was working from home?

[Ked]

2 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

I see this one getting trotted out a lot. Usually in the Nazi and the Express.

 

The question you should be asking is where did all those 600 quids go?

 

Wasn't it really strange that the TOC made huge profits during the pandemic when everyone was working from home?

Huge profits?

Then why the need for 16 billion pounds of subsidy.

And in previous 10 years an average of 5 billion.

There's websites with breakdown of costs.Subsidies have been paid as I've stated despite in every year up until now fare increases above the inflation rate.

What profits you quote are only possible when back by huge investment from government.

Also I'm assuming that 16 billion pounds given from the public purse is averaged out at 600 pounds per household.

 

[The Mighty Thor]

7 minutes ago, Ked said:

Huge profits?

Then why the need for 16 billion pounds of subsidy.

And in previous 10 years an average of 5 billion.

There's websites with breakdown of costs.Subsidies have been paid as I've stated despite in every year up until now fare increases above the inflation rate.

What profits you quote are only possible when back by huge investment from government.

Also I'm assuming that 16 billion pounds given from the public purse is averaged out at 600 pounds per household.

 

The falsehood is that the 600 quids went straight into the train drivers pockets. It didn't. 

 

How can a business report huge profits with no customers? (other than a tanning salon or mini-cab company)

[Ked]

27 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

The falsehood is that the 600 quids went straight into the train drivers pockets. It didn't. 

 

How can a business report huge profits with no customers? (other than a tanning salon or mini-cab company)

No ones claiming it went straight to train drivers pockets.

The claim is the industry they work in was subsidised to the figure mentioned.

The railway industry employ over 100000 people.Id hazard a guess that accounts for about 4 -5 billion .

The profits you speak of don't cover that I'm afraid and with the demands of pay there's going to be more subsidy needed.

Taking aside the covid period on average 5 billion a year is paid.

Still nowhere near the profit made if it can be called profit.

There's also needs for reinvestment upgrading stock.

I think we all agree there's a need for trains.

So if you are happy to fund what the unions are asking the money has to come from somewhere.

And there's lots more publicly funded workers who want more money.

You might I suspect advocate higher taxes as I doubt you would want cuts.

Imo I pay too much tax already and not just on my wages.That makes me the bad guy on this topic as somehow others wanting more money versus me wanting to keep more of mine equates to this.

 

[IronJambo]

46 minutes ago, Ked said:

No ones claiming it went straight to train drivers pockets.

The claim is the industry they work in was subsidised to the figure mentioned.

The railway industry employ over 100000 people.Id hazard a guess that accounts for about 4 -5 billion .

The profits you speak of don't cover that I'm afraid and with the demands of pay there's going to be more subsidy needed.

Taking aside the covid period on average 5 billion a year is paid.

Still nowhere near the profit made if it can be called profit.

There's also needs for reinvestment upgrading stock.

I think we all agree there's a need for trains.

So if you are happy to fund what the unions are asking the money has to come from somewhere.

And there's lots more publicly funded workers who want more money.

You might I suspect advocate higher taxes as I doubt you would want cuts.

Imo I pay too much tax already and not just on my wages.That makes me the bad guy on this topic as somehow others wanting more money versus me wanting to keep more of mine equates to this.

 

You're forgetting that the country needs a rail network. It's a public service that should be subsidised. Otherwise you're cutting off communities on non profitable routes. 

 

Just shut the whole network down shall we?

[fabienleclerq]

Profit,profit,profit...... it's an infrastructure industry that is subsidised because its needed.

 

France and Germany etc subsidise theirs a lot more than ours, it's been chronically under invested in hence the service not being as good as it should be.

[IronJambo]

RMT strike called for 27th July.

 

ASLEF have arsed it up and need to re ballot. 

[benny]

6 hours ago, IronJambo said:

RMT strike called for 27th July.

 

ASLEF have arsed it up and need to re ballot. 

Is that the only day.

[IronJambo]

It appears ASLEF didn't mess up as had been suggested to me.

 

They're to announce their first day of action today at some point.

[SectionDJambo]

On 12/07/2022 at 17:18, fabienleclerq said:

Profit,profit,profit...... it's an infrastructure industry that is subsidised because its needed.

 

France and Germany etc subsidise theirs a lot more than ours, it's been chronically under invested in hence the service not being as good as it should be.

This seems to be missed by many. We keep hearing about the need for electric cars and cheap public transport. The Europeans subsidise public transport to give a good alternative to taking the car.

The last time I was in Germany, we went to see Dortmund play Dusseldorf. We were staying in Dusseldorf, for the suberb beer, so we took the train to Dortmund. Train travel free of charge if you show your match ticket to the ticket inspector. As long as the match your going to is in the same federal state from where you travel from.

They talk a good game about public transport and car emissions in the UK, but do little to encourage car use, other than punishing through taxation and parking charges.

[IronJambo]

ASLEF have announced 30th July for the drivers.

 

To recap:

 

27th July - RMT strike

30th July - ASLEF strike 

[The Real Maroonblood]

1 hour ago, IronJambo said:

ASLEF have announced 30th July for the drivers.

 

To recap:

 

27th July - RMT strike

30th July - ASLEF strike 

Good luck to everyone involved.

[benny]

RMT will affect Scotrail due to the signallers.

ASLEF could affect trains travelling north and south from other companies within the franchise.

 

Edited July 14, 2022 by benny

[Japan Jambo]

4 hours ago, IronJambo said:

ASLEF have announced 30th July for the drivers.

 

To recap:

 

27th July - RMT strike

30th July - ASLEF strike 

 

Is Eurostar impacted on the 27th do you know?

[Cade]

Commonwealth Games start in Birmingham on the 28th July

 

 

[IronJambo]

1 hour ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

Is Eurostar impacted on the 27th do you know?

Nah, they're run by SNCF in France. 

 

Edit: they'll be impacted by network rail staff striking with RMT though, as will all rail services UK wide.

Edited July 14, 2022 by IronJambo

[WorldChampions1902]

On 12/07/2022 at 16:08, Ked said:

No ones claiming it went straight to train drivers pockets.

The claim is the industry they work in was subsidised to the figure mentioned.

The railway industry employ over 100000 people.Id hazard a guess that accounts for about 4 -5 billion .

The profits you speak of don't cover that I'm afraid and with the demands of pay there's going to be more subsidy needed.

Taking aside the covid period on average 5 billion a year is paid.

Still nowhere near the profit made if it can be called profit.

There's also needs for reinvestment upgrading stock.

I think we all agree there's a need for trains.

So if you are happy to fund what the unions are asking the money has to come from somewhere.

And there's lots more publicly funded workers who want more money.

You might I suspect advocate higher taxes as I doubt you would want cuts.

Imo I pay too much tax already and not just on my wages.That makes me the bad guy on this topic as somehow others wanting more money versus me wanting to keep more of mine equates to this.

 

If 2 pence in every pound of every train ticket sold is Profit, why do we need rail subsidies?

[Ked]

15 minutes ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

If 2 pence in every pound of every train ticket sold is Profit, why do we need rail subsidies?

You tell me.

 

 

[WorldChampions1902]

10 minutes ago, Ked said:

You tell me.

 

 

Could it be yet another example of ‘subsidies’ that subsidise the profits of big business a la Tory doctrine? In which case, your complaint about your taxes going up to subsidise rail workers pay is wrong and what you should be saying is that you object to your tax bill increasing in order to maintain the profiteering of rail companies?

[Ked]

29 minutes ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

Could it be yet another example of ‘subsidies’ that subsidise the profits of big business a la Tory doctrine? In which case, your complaint about your taxes going up to subsidise rail workers pay is wrong and what you should be saying is that you object to your tax bill increasing in order to maintain the profiteering of rail companies?

Except the figures don't add up to what you are trying to say.

 

[WorldChampions1902]

6 minutes ago, Ked said:

Except the figures don't add up to what you are trying to say.

 

What figures? It’s quite a simple equation isn’t it? 2 pence out of every pound of ticket sales is profit for the

rail operator. Which must mean that every pound of subsidy from the government is pure profit?

https://www.nerdwallet.com/uk/personal-finance/rail-fares/

 

[Ked]

1 hour ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

What figures? It’s quite a simple equation isn’t it? 2 pence out of every pound of ticket sales is profit for the

rail operator. Which must mean that every pound of subsidy from the government is pure profit?

https://www.nerdwallet.com/uk/personal-finance/rail-fares/

 

Let's leave the 16 billion pounds of subsidy during covid to one side.

So in every year on average since privatisation there's been 5 billion subsidy paid in.

There was 500 million profit prepandemic of which 350 million was reinvested and 150 million (approx because I can't be arsed providing the links I already posted previously ) went to share holders.

The 5 billion did not get shared as profit.

Railways in any country in Western Europe are subsidised.

That's fine.

What's not OK imo is that currently UK railway workers are already the highest paid in Europe and indeed the 3rd highest paid in the world.

You support their industrial action I don't.

Look up the figures yourself I've already posted them and I'm just repeating myself.

The profits you speak of wouldn't wipe the arse of the wage demands.

 

[fabienleclerq]

Whys it not OK that the UK rail workers are the third highest paid?

 

A quick Google suggest they are 5th but that's an average and Scotrail drivers would be further down the list.How does your job compare with salaries elsewhere ked? 

 

Germany, France,Italy, Spain and Switzerland all subsidise their railways more than the UK. Germany by 4 x as much! I've also noted Spain have made loads of train travel free this summer and Germany have introduced £9 monthly tickets to help with the cost of living/fuel.

 

It's amazing countries that invest properly get a better service and also run the system to help their citizens not line the pockets of fat cats.

 

 

 

[Japan Jambo]

13 hours ago, IronJambo said:

Nah, they're run by SNCF in France. 

 

Edit: they'll be impacted by network rail staff striking with RMT though, as will all rail services UK wide.

 

thanks

[Riccarton3]

Hasn't the govt over the years had to bail out rail companies that took over a public service because they couldn't hack it? Not hacking it, no, seeing the opportunity to make money for managerial staff. Mismanaged with management paying itself huge bonuses.

 

The con. Individuals walk away very rich whilst Tory dogma talks subsidies.

Edited July 15, 2022 by Riccarton3

[Riccarton3]

Militant strike. That mean going on strike, withdrawing your labour through a ballot organised by a legally recognised union organisation. ****ing dreadful adjective to describe a strike able to slither into every day use. It's a strike.

[Ked]

6 hours ago, fabienleclerq said:

Whys it not OK that the UK rail workers are the third highest paid?

 

A quick Google suggest they are 5th but that's an average and Scotrail drivers would be further down the list.How does your job compare with salaries elsewhere ked? 

 

Germany, France,Italy, Spain and Switzerland all subsidise their railways more than the UK. Germany by 4 x as much! I've also noted Spain have made loads of train travel free this summer and Germany have introduced £9 monthly tickets to help with the cost of living/fuel.

 

It's amazing countries that invest properly get a better service and also run the system to help their citizens not line the pockets of fat cats.

 

 

 

Not sure where my job is in comparison.

And it's fine you are paid well.

I don't support your industrial action.

I'm a bit sick of repeating myself on this thread.

Also because I don't support your strike doesn't mean I think that the privatisation has been a success .

There's a lot to be done to sort out the network but it's a two way street and the unions resist an awful lot of common sense changes to working practices.

Good luck with what you believe you are doing.

 

[jamboy1982]

1 hour ago, Ked said:

Not sure where my job is in comparison.

And it's fine you are paid well.

I don't support your industrial action.

I'm a bit sick of repeating myself on this thread.

Also because I don't support your strike doesn't mean I think that the privatisation has been a success .

There's a lot to be done to sort out the network but it's a two way street and the unions resist an awful lot of common sense changes to working practices.

Good luck with what you believe you are doing.

 

What common sense changes are Union protesting about changing? 

[WorldChampions1902]

14 hours ago, Ked said:

What's not OK imo is that currently UK railway workers are already the highest paid in Europe and indeed the 3rd highest paid in the world.

Unfortunately, your resentment on this runs against stated government policy that is set on a quote, “a high wage economy”. So being only the 3rd highest paid in the world shows that the government has work to do on rail workers pay. Giving them an RPI pay increase only means that their pay stands still in real terms. And as a rail user who sees my ticket price rise at the rate of RPI every year, and less than RPI being passed on to the rail workers year on year is an absolute fraud on so many levels.

 

The bottom line is that the extortionate ticket prices plus the outrageous taxpayer subsidies we pay in the U.K. go to big businesses and there is no reason why those profits cannot be reduced to accommodate an RPI pay award.

 

You are therefore throwing rocks at the wrong people (the unions) IMHO. 

[IronJambo]

1 hour ago, Ked said:

Not sure where my job is in comparison.

And it's fine you are paid well.

I don't support your industrial action.

I'm a bit sick of repeating myself on this thread.

Also because I don't support your strike doesn't mean I think that the privatisation has been a success .

There's a lot to be done to sort out the network but it's a two way street and the unions resist an awful lot of common sense changes to working practices.

Good luck with what you believe you are doing.

 

I hear people say this a lot. I agree.

 

I also hear the majority of people say they're against HS2 because it's a waste of money. It's a special kind of stupid.

[fabienleclerq]

1 hour ago, Ked said:

Not sure where my job is in comparison.

And it's fine you are paid well.

I don't support your industrial action.

I'm a bit sick of repeating myself on this thread.

Also because I don't support your strike doesn't mean I think that the privatisation has been a success .

There's a lot to be done to sort out the network but it's a two way street and the unions resist an awful lot of common sense changes to working practices.

Good luck with what you believe you are doing.

 

What practices are you talking about? A lot of the practices are in place because of fatalities, its a dangerous place to work especially for track workers. 

[Ked]

28 minutes ago, fabienleclerq said:

What practices are you talking about? A lot of the practices are in place because of fatalities, its a dangerous place to work especially for track workers. 

Of course it is.

Look I've said my piece on all this.

Repeated myself a lot.

I can't really be arsed looking through for links etc so I'm just going to leave it for now.

Not making excuses just got a bit of a head on with this stupid fekin virus so not really on the ball.

Bored oot ma skull as well.

But aye trackside can be dangerous but my understanding is there's good set ups to minimise that.

Like I said good luck to you all in what you believe.

[benny]

Full timetable back on 21 July.

[jamboy1982]

What common sense changes are the Union against implementing? All this nonsense chat about modernising is just nonsense. 

[IronJambo]

8 minutes ago, jamboy1982 said:

What common sense changes are the Union against implementing? All this nonsense chat about modernising is just nonsense. 

Use your "common sense" and do some research.

[Riccarton3]

15 minutes ago, jamboy1982 said:

What common sense changes are the Union against implementing? All this nonsense chat about modernising is just nonsense. 

Modernisation is the wrap around term for the management. I don't know if its meant to be private cos there is a dispute but its interesting no one (I am thinking journalism) breaks it down. Maybe they can't but modernisation includes compulsory redundancies and changes to terms and conditions which likely reduce flexibility in the name if modernisation. Its a loaded term used for the hard of thinking. How can they be against all 'modernisation'? Makes no sense, eh?

Edited July 15, 2022 by Riccarton3

[jamboy1982]

3 minutes ago, IronJambo said:

Use your "common sense" and do some research.

I have and there doesn’t appear to be many common sense changes. There’s changes to working practices that appear on the face of it to be dangerous and against all health and safety guidance. Also appear to be unrealistic changes to the job that employees and employers agreed to upon commencement of employment. 
 

if there’s so many of them then it must be easy for people arguing against the Union to list them. 

[Riccarton3]

I wonder if folks on here get as agitated about billions wasted on useless protection against a virus. That's not a subsidy though is it? That's contracts being dished out to 'preferred' suppliers. What do they put that down to?

[IronJambo]

13 minutes ago, jamboy1982 said:

I have and there doesn’t appear to be many common sense changes. There’s changes to working practices that appear on the face of it to be dangerous and against all health and safety guidance. Also appear to be unrealistic changes to the job that employees and employers agreed to upon commencement of employment. 
 

if there’s so many of them then it must be easy for people arguing against the Union to list them. 

🤣 Apologies, I misunderstood where your sarcasm was aimed at. 

 

The want Sundays in the working week.

They want to close all ticket offices.

They want to cut pensions.

They want redundancies.

They want to extend driver only operations.

They want more flexible shifts. We already have turns that can move within 4 days notice but they want more of this and they want them to be more flexible to within a day or two.

 

All for a real terms pay cut.

 

 

 

Edited July 15, 2022 by IronJambo

[jamboy1982]

3 hours ago, Riccarton3 said:

I wonder if folks on here get as agitated about billions wasted on useless protection against a virus. That's not a subsidy though is it? That's contracts being dished out to 'preferred' suppliers. What do they put that down to?

Not the thread for this chat.