energy prices

[The Mighty Thor]

You know how some posters say we should wait to see what Truss' government come up with?

 

wellllllllll.........

 

Add a levy to household bills 😂

 

Might as well. Just make a round £12k a year for gas and leccy. Grand a month. Easier to count. 😂

Edited August 23, 2022 by The Mighty Thor

[Blair835]

Anyone else beginning to panic about the cost of living in any way or is it just myself? Surely there has to be something that breaks to stop all these crazy price hikes

[graygo]

18 minutes ago, Blair835 said:

Anyone else beginning to panic about the cost of living in any way or is it just myself? Surely there has to be something that breaks to stop all these crazy price hikes

 

I'm worried, not so much about me personally but I can see that a huge number of people are going to face real hardship. Things look very grim.

[Dazo]

53 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

You know how some posters say we should wait to see what Truss' government come up with?

 

wellllllllll.........

 

Add a levy to household bills 😂

 

Might as well. Just make a round £12k a year for gas and leccy. Grand a month. Easier to count. 😂

Ffs Even you don’t believe that will happen Thor. 😂

 

[Victorian]

Scottish Power has tabled an interesting plan.  Essentially it's like mortgaging the excess cost off to be spread over 20 years.  Looks like a reasonable plan anyway.  No doubt the junta will bin it if it isn't corrupt enough.

[Mikey1874]

No matter who suggested it (Liberals, Labour, Scottish Power) they need to freeze current prices.

 

The knock on effects, some of which have been mentioned here are too serious. Will destroy peoples lives and the economy. 

 

Ideally before Friday but soon. 

[Dazo]

5 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

No matter who suggested it (Liberals, Labour, Scottish Power) they need to freeze current prices.

 

The knock on effects, some of which have been mentioned here are too serious. Will destroy peoples lives and the economy. 

 

Ideally before Friday but soon. 

No chance there will be a freeze especially before Friday. Big rises coming this week so you best get prepared for that. 😢

[The Mighty Thor]

19 minutes ago, Dazo said:

Ffs Even you don’t believe that will happen Thor. 😂

 

How the current conservatives work.

 

Think up a really shit idea.

 

Leak it to the press from an 'un-named source'

 

If it tanks deny it.

 

If it gains focus group points, bring it in. 

 

I don't believe the household levy element but i do believe that industry is going to implode this winter. Industrial/commercial customers are not protected by a price cap so their increases have been jaw dropping. 

 

Manufacturing numbers released this morning show a drop of -13% in the previous 3 months. That's before the real increases in energy kick in.  That means jobs, livelihoods all gone. 

 

[Dazo]

14 minutes ago, Victorian said:

Scottish Power has tabled an interesting plan.  Essentially it's like mortgaging the excess cost off to be spread over 20 years.  Looks like a reasonable plan anyway.  No doubt the junta will bin it if it isn't corrupt enough.

Not a bad idea if it is interest free otherwise no thanks. 

[Victorian]

Just now, Dazo said:

Not a bad idea if it is interest free otherwise no thanks. 

 

If it freezes prices and some people continue to live instead of dying then yes thanks.

[Mikey1874]

6 minutes ago, Dazo said:

No chance there will be a freeze especially before Friday. Big rises coming this week so you best get prepared for that. 😢

 

Yeah

 

Would need Truss and Sunak to go Boris Johnson and between them agree it before Friday.

 

Leaving what looks to be inevitable till people get to worry sick about it for a few weeks is criminal. 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

1 hour ago, Mikey1874 said:

No matter who suggested it (Liberals, Labour, Scottish Power) they need to freeze current prices.

 

The knock on effects, some of which have been mentioned here are too serious. Will destroy peoples lives and the economy. 

 

Ideally before Friday but soon. 

 

There are other knock-on effects as well.

 

Freeze the prices for at least 2 years (none of this 6 months pish that Labour have put forward) this would at least stabilize inflation may well bring it down, in turn the BoE wouldn't need to raise interest rates and all these pay disputes & strikers would almost certainly settle for 6% - 7% if they know they aren't being faced with 15% - 20% inflation, and of course you might just stave off a recession into the bargin because people might actually have money to spend.

Ok the government have to borrow the money to pay for it, but they'll get a lot of that back through tax receipts which they would otherwise lose when the economy tanks and there are mass widespread redundancies, which is a double wammy of lost tax (personal & business) and increased benefits.

[Boab]

5 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

There are other knock-on effects as well.

 

Freeze the prices for at least 2 years (none of this 6 months pish that Labour have put forward) this would at least stabilize inflation may well bring it down, in turn the BoE wouldn't need to raise interest rates and all these pay disputes & strikers would almost certainly settle for 6% - 7% if they know they aren't being faced with 15% - 20% inflation, and of course you might just stave off a recession into the bargin because people might actually have money to spend.

Ok the government have to borrow the money to pay for it, but they'll get a lot of that back through tax receipts which they would otherwise lose when the economy tanks and there are mass widespread redundancies, which is a double wammy of lost tax (personal & business) and increased benefits.

Good post, but you are overlooking the possibility that the next incumbent of No.10 may well be someone who can't get out of a room with one door, unaided !

 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

3 minutes ago, Boab said:

Good post, but you are overlooking the possibility that the next incumbent of No.10 may well be someone who can't get out of a room with one door, unaided !

 

 

You'd have to hope that the adults in the room would open the door for her.

 

Even the Tories must realise that without major intervention this country will explode, even Stevie Wonder can clearly see that.

[henryheart]

1 hour ago, The Mighty Thor said:

How the current conservatives work.

 

Think up a really shit idea.

 

Leak it to the press from an 'un-named source'

 

If it tanks deny it.

 

If it gains focus group points, bring it in. 

 

I don't believe the household levy element but i do believe that industry is going to implode this winter. Industrial/commercial customers are not protected by a price cap so their increases have been jaw dropping. 

 

Manufacturing numbers released this morning show a drop of -13% in the previous 3 months. That's before the real increases in energy kick in.  That means jobs, livelihoods all gone. 

 

 

Nicola Sturgeon did something similar, on a very regular basis, during the Covid crisis; get one of her sidekicks to say something to test the water before appearing the hero by rejecting or denying that it would happen.

 

Anyway, I don't imagine the position would be any different no matter what political party is in power or whether or not Scotland was independent. This is a European crisis and every country is affected and we in Britain are affected more than some and less than other. The test will be how the government deals with it and they have over a month before the new tariff is due to be applied. I appreciate that we are all concerned, but I would rather that they gave proper consideration and looked at a whole range of options before coming up with something that will hopefully address all the issues rather than rush out with something that may not be the best solution just to appease the panic. After all, the £400 contribution, promised with the best of intentions,  already looks like it will have very little impact. Until the Government knows what the proposed price cap is, they will simply not know what the full implications are likely to be. 

 

Certainly a freeze on the tariff would give certainty to householders and businesses going forward and help to stem the increase in the CPI, but I'm no expert.    

 

 

[ri Alban]

12 minutes ago, henryheart said:

 

*Nicola Sturgeon did something similar, on a very regular basis, during the Covid crisis; get one of her sidekicks to say something to test the water before appearing the hero by rejecting or denying that it would happen.

 

Anyway, I don't imagine the position would be any different no matter what political party is in power or whether or not Scotland was independent. This is a European crisis and every country is affected and we in Britain are affected more than some and less than other. The test will be how the government deals with it and they have over a month before the new tariff is due to be applied. I appreciate that we are all concerned, but I would rather that they gave proper consideration and looked at a whole range of options before coming up with something that will hopefully address all the issues rather than rush out with something that may not be the best solution just to appease the panic. After all, the £400 contribution, promised with the best of intentions,  already looks like it will have very little impact. Until the Government knows what the proposed price cap is, they will simply not know what the full implications are likely to be. 

 

Certainly a freeze on the tariff would give certainty to householders and businesses going forward and help to stem the increase in the CPI, but I'm no expert.    

 

 

*Tell us about this. 

[WorldChampions1902]

4 hours ago, Victorian said:

Scottish Power has tabled an interesting plan.  Essentially it's like mortgaging the excess cost off to be spread over 20 years.  Looks like a reasonable plan anyway.  No doubt the junta will bin it if it isn't corrupt enough.

Do you honestly think that our energy prices will have dropped in 2 years time to allow ‘absorption’ of the ‘loan’ repayments? I’m not so sure.

[Victorian]

4 minutes ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

Do you honestly think that our energy prices will have dropped in 2 years time to allow ‘absorption’ of the ‘loan’ repayments? I’m not so sure.

 

Remains to be seen but yes,  probably.  Or at least have topped out.  A hell of a lot can happen within 2 years or so.  The repayment of the balance is to be spread over at least 20 years and there's nothing to suggest that it can't be phased in,  graduated,  extended.  

Edited August 23, 2022 by Victorian

[WorldChampions1902]

4 hours ago, Blair835 said:

Anyone else beginning to panic about the cost of living in any way or is it just myself? Surely there has to be something that breaks to stop all these crazy price hikes

Not panicking, but certainly revising my retirement plans. Had hoped to get out early next year but with 18% inflation and £6k energy bills projected, I think I’m going to delay things.

[WorldChampions1902]

5 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Remains to be seen but yes,  probably.  Or at least have topped out.  A hell of a lot can happen within 2 years or so.  The repayment of the balance is to be spread over at least 20 years and there's nothing to suggest that it can't be phased in,  graduated,  extended.  

If there is a significant drop in prices, one would hope that the war in Ukraine had ended, which would obviously be great news for Ukraine especially.

[Victorian]

6 minutes ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

If there is a significant drop in prices, one would hope that the war in Ukraine had ended, which would obviously be great news for Ukraine especially.

 

There are other things that can improve the supply & demand of the market.  But a two year hiatus also provides time for other solutions to be explored.

 

It's a possible interim solution that fits the primary purpose,  with secondary benefits.  Caps the end user price and provides some stability.  But also contributes to reducing inflation,  which in turn reduces other business input costs of various kinds,  which further aids inflation.  Reduces the amount the BofE has to raise interest rates.  

 

There cannot be 18% inflation for longer than a short term,  time limited event.  Sitting in your grace & favour mansion and watching 18% inflation occur for 3,  4,  5 years is not an option.

[manaliveits105]

Channel 4 news guy had Sturgeons mouth twitching there as he asked the questions Scottish media aren’t allowed to - like what happened to your previous promise to nationalise an energy company which would have certainly helped in the current situation ? 
Eh oh covid got in the way 

charlatan ! 

[doctor jambo]

1 minute ago, manaliveits105 said:

Channel 4 news guy had Sturgeons mouth twitching there as he asked the questions Scottish media aren’t allowed to - like what happened to your previous promise to nationalise an energy company which would have certainly helped in the current situation ? 
Eh oh covid got in the way 

charlatan ! 

This is beyond party politics.

surely you can see that ?

I don’t like sturgeon one bit, but she is utterly correct.

trawling old promises gets nowhere. We need action, united action, and working together, immediately.

[manaliveits105]

3 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

This is beyond party politics.

surely you can see that ?

I don’t like sturgeon one bit, but she is utterly correct.

trawling old promises gets nowhere. We need action, united action, and working together, immediately.

The real government will be along shortly with measures - hopefully not a buy now pay later deal like Sturgeons proposal 

[Jeffros Furios]

1 hour ago, manaliveits105 said:

The real government will be along shortly with measures - hopefully not a buy now pay later deal like Sturgeons proposal 

Real government .. like they've ever gave a **** 

[The Mighty Thor]

1 hour ago, manaliveits105 said:

Channel 4 news guy had Sturgeons mouth twitching there as he asked the questions Scottish media aren’t allowed to - like what happened to your previous promise to nationalise an energy company which would have certainly helped in the current situation ? 
Eh oh covid got in the way 

charlatan ! 

You never watched it.

 

It popped up on your Facebook feed. 

 

You've got no idea how it works. If you did you wouldn't be posting guff like that. 

[The Mighty Thor]

3 hours ago, henryheart said:

 

Anyway, I don't imagine the position would be any different no matter what political party is in power

You might not imagine it but you'd be wrong. 

 

The current government have buried their head in the sand this last 6 months.

 

In fact the current squatter in No 10 has chucked it to the extent that he's now just sitting getting pished up at Chequers. 

 

Meanwhile Labour called for a recall of parliament more than a fortnight ago. They've also made some reasonable costed proposals. 

 

So far the Tories have done hee-haw. We've to wait until poundshop Thatcher gets in to reverse the 160 a year NI rise and to cut corporation tax. You know stuff that'll really improve the lot of the neediest.

 

So actually it does matter who is in charge. It matters a hell of a lot. 

[Victorian]

1 hour ago, manaliveits105 said:

The real government will be along shortly with measures - hopefully not a buy now pay later deal like Sturgeons proposal 

 

I very much doubt you've ever been responsible for paying a bill in your 11 year long life so you wouldn't know either way.

[doctor jambo]

36 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

I very much doubt you've ever been responsible for paying a bill in your 11 year long life so you wouldn't know either way.

The only measures available are beyond the thought of our incumbents.

100% tax on the profits of oil/gas/ leccy generators until this is over , or the entire economy crashes into a wall very shortly.

Civil unrest is brewing.

Its either that or assassinate putin 

[skinnybob72]

5 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

The only measures available are beyond the thought of our incumbents.

100% tax on the profits of oil/gas/ leccy generators until this is over , or the entire economy crashes into a wall very shortly.

Civil unrest is brewing.

Its either that or assassinate putin 

Alternatively, annoy him to the point where he wipes the UK from the face of the earth with a nuclear bombardment - that solves all of the UK's problems fairly quickly. 

[WorldChampions1902]

31 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

The only measures available are beyond the thought of our incumbents.

100% tax on the profits of oil/gas/ leccy generators until this is over , or the entire economy crashes into a wall very shortly.

Civil unrest is brewing.

Its either that or assassinate putin 

The number of posts about “Civil Unrest” on this message board has been increasing markedly in recent weeks. That in itself is an indicator as to the distinct possibility of where we are headed. Worrying.

 

In Liz we Truss though (not that we have any choice).

[ArcticJambo]

If the gov pays my bills I'll turn on the heating.

[manaliveits105]

1 hour ago, Victorian said:

 

I very much doubt you've ever been responsible for paying a bill in your 11 year long life so you wouldn't know either way.

Have a beer 

[Dazo]

16 hours ago, Victorian said:

 

If it freezes prices and some people continue to live instead of dying then yes thanks.

Freezing current prices isn’t going to totally stop that though. You think it’s okay for energy companies to charge struggling families interest on their bills for the next 20 years ? 😂

 

Shareholders will be delighted. 

[Victorian]

49 minutes ago, Dazo said:

Freezing current prices isn’t going to totally stop that though. You think it’s okay for energy companies to charge struggling families interest on their bills for the next 20 years ? 😂

 

Shareholders will be delighted. 

 

Interest has never been mentioned but even if it is involved,  it's still much,  much better than spiralling energy costs now,  worsening inflation,  resultant high borrowing interest rate,  destitution,  untold health consequences.

 

This is a mortgage of sorts.  Spread over a sensibly long period.  It seems to be absolutely necessary.

 

The Tory alternative is to sit with your thumb up your arse and denounce the plans that are being proposed instead of being practical.

[heartsfc_fan]

Scrapping VAT and the standing charge on energy bills would be a start.

The standing charge in particular I've never understood. You're basically being charged for something even if you don't use it?

[Dazo]

16 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Interest has never been mentioned but even if it is involved,  it's still much,  much better than spiralling energy costs now,  worsening inflation,  resultant high borrowing interest rate,  destitution,  untold health consequences.

 

This is a mortgage of sorts.  Spread over a sensibly long period.  It seems to be absolutely necessary.

 

The Tory alternative is to sit with your thumb up your arse and denounce the plans that are being proposed instead of being practical.

As I said the idea of spreading the cost is a okay one but interest shouldn’t be anywhere near it. Any great idea coming from big energy companies I’d take with a pinch of salt to be honest as they all seem to revolve around them still getting huge bills being paid. Doesn’t sound like the cost issue is really being tackled, you just aren’t paying for it as you use it.  Energy companies still getting the money they are just having to wait a little longer. People who are really struggling will be potentially be left with paying for 10 year old gas. 

[WorldChampions1902]

15 minutes ago, heartsfc_fan said:

Scrapping VAT and the standing charge on energy bills would be a start.

The standing charge in particular I've never understood. You're basically being charged for something even if you don't use it?

There is a lot of misunderstanding around what the standing charge covers. It is used to cover costs to energy companies that are not related to energy!
 

For example, when you hear a Tory Junta minister bragging about how the Warm Homes Discount is one of the things the Junta are doing to alleviate fuel poverty, what he is not telling you is that is funded by all bill payers NOT the government. Funded by your standing charge payments.
 

Another example is the costly process of transferring customers from bankrupt energy companies to new suppliers - that adds £100 on its own, to our Electricity standing charges. And so on.

[Nookie Bear]

12 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said:

You might not imagine it but you'd be wrong. 

 

The current government have buried their head in the sand this last 6 months.

 

In fact the current squatter in No 10 has chucked it to the extent that he's now just sitting getting pished up at Chequers. 

 

Meanwhile Labour called for a recall of parliament more than a fortnight ago. They've also made some reasonable costed proposals. 

 

So far the Tories have done hee-haw. We've to wait until poundshop Thatcher gets in to reverse the 160 a year NI rise and to cut corporation tax. You know stuff that'll really improve the lot of the neediest.

 

So actually it does matter who is in charge. It matters a hell of a lot. 

 

Mentioned this a while back. The Labour Party should be making a formal request to the Queen asking that she sorts out HER sodding government.

[Boab]

11 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

Mentioned this a while back. The Labour Party should be making a formal request to the Queen asking that she sorts out HER sodding government.

Hell will freeze over first....probably cause Satan can't afford to put the heating on, so maybe ! 🥴

[The Mighty Thor]

2 hours ago, Dazo said:

As I said the idea of spreading the cost is a okay one but interest shouldn’t be anywhere near it. Any great idea coming from big energy companies I’d take with a pinch of salt to be honest as they all seem to revolve around them still getting huge bills being paid. Doesn’t sound like the cost issue is really being tackled, you just aren’t paying for it as you use it.  Energy companies still getting the money they are just having to wait a little longer. People who are really struggling will be potentially be left with paying for 10 year old gas. 

Why TF would we be even thinking about spreading our gas and electricity bills for just this winter over 5 or 10 years? 

 

Stop and think about it. 

 

What happens next year? 

 

Its simple. Reintroduce the cap at today levels and then if the generators can't make a profit then offer THEM loans or share swaps which they can buy back when they're profitable again.

 

Do this and you'll find gas and electricity prices dropping like a stone. 

 

The whole thing is an utter piss take. 

[Footballfirst]

The UK imported zero gas or oil from Russia in June for the first time.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62659391

 

Interesting comment at the foot of the article.

 

According to the ONS we imported no fuel whatsoever from Russia in June, whereas normally we'd import on average about half a billion pounds of it.

Prior to the war, gas imported from Russia was about 4.9% of total UK gas imports; now it's dropped to zero.

The UK hasn't cut the overall amount of gas it's importing; Russian gas has largely been replaced with gas from elsewhere.

That shows clearly the mismatch between the effect of war on the supply to the UK of wholesale gas (modest) and the change to the prices we're paying (huge).

A lot of the fear built into the price of wholesale gas relates to market speculation on the potential disruptions to supply to Germany, Italy and other Russian-gas-addicted countries.

Our own gas supply is much more secure.

Yet because the energy price cap is linked to international wholesale gas prices, the danger is that when the price cap re-sets in October, millions of households will end up paying unnecessarily large bills which have a whole lot of irrelevant fear built into them.

[il Duce McTarkin]

13 hours ago, doctor jambo said:

Civil unrest is brewing.

Its either that or assassinate putin 

 

I'd be up for both, tbf.

[Victorian]

That's that ****ed then.  Freezing prices wont help according to the junta.  

 

https://news.sky.com/story/cost-of-living-freezing-energy-bills-wont-help-worst-off-households-says-minister-12680291

 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

9 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

The UK imported zero gas or oil from Russia in June for the first time.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62659391

 

Interesting comment at the foot of the article.

 

According to the ONS we imported no fuel whatsoever from Russia in June, whereas normally we'd import on average about half a billion pounds of it.

Prior to the war, gas imported from Russia was about 4.9% of total UK gas imports; now it's dropped to zero.

The UK hasn't cut the overall amount of gas it's importing; Russian gas has largely been replaced with gas from elsewhere.

That shows clearly the mismatch between the effect of war on the supply to the UK of wholesale gas (modest) and the change to the prices we're paying (huge).

A lot of the fear built into the price of wholesale gas relates to market speculation on the potential disruptions to supply to Germany, Italy and other Russian-gas-addicted countries.

Our own gas supply is much more secure.

Yet because the energy price cap is linked to international wholesale gas prices, the danger is that when the price cap re-sets in October, millions of households will end up paying unnecessarily large bills which have a whole lot of irrelevant fear built into them.

 

I heard someone mention similar the other day, that basically the huge cost's and rises on the wholesale markets are because of fear that the Russians will cut off supplies to Germany etc.  But none of that directly affects UK supplies which are not dependant upon Russia, yet because we are linked to the worldwide wholesale market we've got to pay the huge rises.

 

[Unknown user]

55 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Why TF would we be even thinking about spreading our gas and electricity bills for just this winter over 5 or 10 years? 

 

Stop and think about it. 

 

What happens next year? 

 

Its simple. Reintroduce the cap at today levels and then if the generators can't make a profit then offer THEM loans or share swaps which they can buy back when they're profitable again.

 

Do this and you'll find gas and electricity prices dropping like a stone. 

 

The whole thing is an utter piss take. 

 

**** today levels, it's already too far. Where we are now can't be accepted as the new normal 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

4 minutes ago, Victorian said:

That's that ****ed then.  Freezing prices wont help according to the junta.  

 

https://news.sky.com/story/cost-of-living-freezing-energy-bills-wont-help-worst-off-households-says-minister-12680291

 

 

James Heappey might not have a ministerial job in a couple of weeks time, therefore I wouldn't listen to what any of the current ministers say on this subject, not until the new PM, cabinet and ministers have been installed.

[Dazo]

56 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Why TF would we be even thinking about spreading our gas and electricity bills for just this winter over 5 or 10 years? 

 

Stop and think about it. 

 

What happens next year? 

 

Its simple. Reintroduce the cap at today levels and then if the generators can't make a profit then offer THEM loans or share swaps which they can buy back when they're profitable again.

 

Do this and you'll find gas and electricity prices dropping like a stone. 

 

The whole thing is an utter piss take. 

I guess at some point you need to consider not the most savoury solutions to a very drastic horrible situation. If that’s all we have then some people will have to take it. 
 

Anyway take it up with Vic this isn’t something I’m championing. 

[Victorian]

Just now, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

James Heappey might not have a ministerial job in a couple of weeks time, therefore I wouldn't listen to what any of the current ministers say on this subject, not until the new PM, cabinet and ministers have been installed.

 

Agreed,  it's not absolute official policy,  but it's still a reasonable steer on the current intentions.  

 

Tbh I never expected it to be welcomed with open arms.  It's not their idea = it must be rejected.

 

They'll just continue the tinkering,  making things worse,  while real solutions come and go.  They're heading out the door at the next election but it's way too late.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

10 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Agreed,  it's not absolute official policy,  but it's still a reasonable steer on the current intentions.  

 

Tbh I never expected it to be welcomed with open arms.  It's not their idea = it must be rejected.

 

They'll just continue the tinkering,  making things worse,  while real solutions come and go.  They're heading out the door at the next election but it's way too late.

 

The get out clause is that it's businesses idea, and allows government to say that we've listened to industry.