energy prices

[Smoked-Glass]

Once fusion power is invented it will solve all the world's power problems

[Taffin]

2 hours ago, doctor jambo said:

Quite.

pragmatism has to win.

Something must be done.

there are not many lower/ middle classes who can absorb £400-500 per month bills for power .

Its utterly insane.

That’s a huge part of the electorate.

 

What are people spending their money on?!? I'm firmly lower middles class by salary and whilst I don't want to, I'll be able to pay it, I'll just have to trim back on other things.

 

My fixed monthly outgoings are c. £1000 then plus whatever the energy costs will be. Everything else I can scale up, or down.

 

Now obviously those on a lower income will have a really hard time but into the middle class salaries (if such a thing exists), surely that's an inconvenience not a real issue?

 

As others have said, the help needs to be focused on those earning the least; anyone on over £25k (£50k household) should be okay with a bit of sensibility around it.

Edited August 17, 2022 by Taffin

[Unknown user]

42 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

What are people spending their money on?!? I'm firmly lower middles class by salary and whilst I don't want to, I'll be able to pay it, I'll just have to trim back on other things.

 

My fixed monthly outgoings are c. £1000 then plus whatever the energy costs will be. Everything else I can scale up, or down.

 

Now obviously those on a lower income will have a really hard time but into the middle class salaries (if such a thing exists), surely that's an inconvenience not a real issue?

 

As others have said, the help needs to be focused on those earning the least; anyone on over £25k (£50k household) should be okay with a bit of sensibility around it.

I think there's a lot of people living on the never never, getting by with minimum payments every month and stretching the credit limits. That can eat up disposable income once it gets out of control.

[jack D and coke]

My daughter wanted to fire the heating on tonight ffs…

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, jack D and coke said:

My daughter wanted to fire the heating on tonight ffs…

 

Like the bloody Blackpool illuminations in here, you photosynthesising?

[jack D and coke]

3 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

Like the bloody Blackpool illuminations in here, you photosynthesising?

That’s too clever for me in my current nick…

Explain? 

[ri Alban]

5 hours ago, Taffin said:

 

What are people spending their money on?!? I'm firmly lower middles class by salary and whilst I don't want to, I'll be able to pay it, I'll just have to trim back on other things.

 

My fixed monthly outgoings are c. £1000 then plus whatever the energy costs will be. Everything else I can scale up, or down.

 

Now obviously those on a lower income will have a really hard time but into the middle class salaries (if such a thing exists), surely that's an inconvenience not a real issue?

 

As others have said, the help needs to be focused on those earning the least; anyone on over £25k (£50k household) should be okay with a bit of sensibility around it.

So folk have to work to live, so these ***** can rake it in. Wait til January and then tell everyone how clever you are.

[Boab]

8 hours ago, Taffin said:

 

What are people spending their money on?!? I'm firmly lower middles class by salary and whilst I don't want to, I'll be able to pay it, I'll just have to trim back on other things.

 

My fixed monthly outgoings are c. £1000 then plus whatever the energy costs will be. Everything else I can scale up, or down.

 

Now obviously those on a lower income will have a really hard time but into the middle class salaries (if such a thing exists), surely that's an inconvenience not a real issue?

 

As others have said, the help needs to be focused on those earning the least; anyone on over £25k (£50k household) should be okay with a bit of sensibility around it.

It's the “ trim back on other things “ that will be the problem. Over and above outrageous fuel hikes of course. 

Businesses up and down the land will suffer as people won't have any money to spend.

You don't have to be Keynes to work out the result !

[Taffin]

8 hours ago, Smithee said:

I think there's a lot of people living on the never never, getting by with minimum payments every month and stretching the credit limits. That can eat up disposable income once it gets out of control.

 

True, but that's nobody else's problem. I'll happily have my taxes go to those on the lowest salaries or unable to work to get them through, I can't think of something I'd rather it was spent on. Folk on decent salaries who've overstretched? Not so much.

 

 

3 hours ago, ri Alban said:

So folk have to work to live, so these ***** can rake it in. Wait til January and then tell everyone how clever you are.

 

What's the alternative? Cry about it? I'm not sure that'll keep you warm. Where do you think the money and the services come from if people didn't have to work? For a start there'd be no heating for you to fuel anyway. The majority of people do have to work to live, yes, I thought that much was of obvious.

 

20 minutes ago, Boab said:

It's the “ trim back on other things “ that will be the problem. Over and above outrageous fuel hikes of course. 

Businesses up and down the land will suffer as people won't have any money to spend.

You don't have to be Keynes to work out the result !

 

Yeh, might be bad for some businesses, it may well be good for others. That wasn't what the post I was replying to was talking about though, it was about the lower middle class households and I firmly believe they should be able to get through this without too much issue. 

 

[hmfc_liam06]

Can only hope that Truss and Sunak are playing to the galleries with the "no more handout" patter.

[Boab]

38 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

True, but that's nobody else's problem. I'll happily have my taxes go to those on the lowest salaries or unable to work to get them through, I can't think of something I'd rather it was spent on. Folk on decent salaries who've overstretched? Not so much.

 

 

 

What's the alternative? Cry about it? I'm not sure that'll keep you warm. Where do you think the money and the services come from if people didn't have to work? For a start there'd be no heating for you to fuel anyway. The majority of people do have to work to live, yes, I thought that much was of obvious.

 

 

Yeh, might be bad for some businesses, it may well be good for others. That wasn't what the post I was replying to was talking about though, it was about the lower middle class households and I firmly believe they should be able to get through this without too much issue. 

 

Yea, I understand the context of your reply to the other post, but even if those households cut back a little, it's compounded by the affect at large. 

Could be sink or swim for a lot of business.

[Taffin]

35 minutes ago, jonesy said:

One possible reason for the fear is that the baseline standard of living, with expectations around 'wee treats', continual upgrades of consumer goods and foreign holidays, has increased so much for the average punter that, quite rightly, people feel not being able to afford these things is somehow an indicator that the system has failed them. 

 

There were various factors that contributed to the rise in quality of life, just as there are when things go pear shaped. People often want (or are given) easy answers and even easier solutions.

 

 

Yeh, good post. I guess I find joy and wee treats in cheaper ways. Nice walk, decent meal cooked at home, a game of tennis on a bright morning etc.

 

Don't get me wrong, I upgrade my phone every two years and love a foreign holiday. Equally I went 2 years without a foreign holiday and this year I'll probably just keep my current mobile. I have new Xbox, a decent tv etc, but they're all luxuries and you can't become accustomed to them because when hard times hit or the way the world is going they won't always be there.

 

It sounds depressing but nobody on this planet is owed anything imo, we're just passing through. I just take the rough with the smooth and try to not link my contentment to material goods.

Edited August 18, 2022 by Taffin
Hippie dippy stuff right there frome me ^^^^

[The Mighty Thor]

45 minutes ago, jonesy said:

One possible reason for the fear is that the baseline standard of living, with expectations around 'wee treats', continual upgrades of consumer goods and foreign holidays, has increased so much for the average punter that, quite rightly, people feel not being able to afford these things is somehow an indicator that the system has failed them. 

 

There were various factors that contributed to the rise in quality of life, just as there are when things go pear shaped. People often want (or are given) easy answers and even easier solutions.

I don't disagree that not being able to afford the 'wee treats' is really symptomatic of the culture of immediacy that most people under 40 have probably experienced all their lives.

 

What is an issue is the inability to afford basic human needs of shelter, food and heating. 

 

I think we'll be seeing a lot of the latter rather than the former.

[doctor jambo]

4 hours ago, ri Alban said:

So folk have to work to live, so these ***** can rake it in. Wait til January and then tell everyone how clever you are.

There should be NO profits for companies that provide life essential services , where there are no alternatives available until this is over.

The windfall tax should be 100% of profit.

There should be no profit in pain and suffering.

it’s either that or many businesses are going to collapse, and many people starving and freezing.

energy bills come down and so do food prices etc, and inflation will follow.

[Boab]

6 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

There should be NO profits for companies that provide life essential services , where there are no alternatives available until this is over.

The windfall tax should be 100% of profit.

There should be no profit in pain and suffering.

it’s either that or many businesses are going to collapse, and many people starving and freezing.

energy bills come down and so do food prices etc, and inflation will follow.

Think we're talking nationalisation, which chimes with your first sentence.

[Shooter McGavin]

2022, and your life is working 5 days-a-week, just so you can barely pay your bills and maybe afford to eat.

 

And people are completely comfortable with that, and in some cases are almost bragging about how much nice things they’ve given up just to accommodate for that quality of life.
 

Some proper sad acts trying to one up each other…

 

“I’ve given up meeting with friends!”

 

”Oh yeah? Well I’ve given up switching the telly on!”

 

Happy to squander their miserable life's away so that CEO’s and shareholders can add a few more 0’s onto their generational wealth.

 

Galling.

[Nookie Bear]

1 minute ago, Shooter McGavin said:

2022, and your life is working 5 days-a-week, just so you can barely pay your bills and maybe afford to eat.

 

And people are completely comfortable with that, and in some cases are almost bragging about how much nice things they’ve given up just to accommodate for that quality of life.
 

Some proper sad acts trying to one up each other…

 

“I’ve given up meeting with friends!”

 

”Oh yeah? Well I’ve given up switching the telly on!”

 

Happy to squander their miserable life's away so that CEO’s and shareholders can add a few more 0’s onto their generational wealth.

 

Galling.

 

And not forgetting this is our "reward" for locking ourselves in our homes for two years.

 

Gonna say it, if we can hit the streets and protest over the shooting of a black man in America then why the hell are we not out there now. Our government has abandoned us and that should be worthy of a broken window or two.

[Taffin]

48 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

I don't disagree that not being able to afford the 'wee treats' is really symptomatic of the culture of immediacy that most people under 40 have probably experienced all their lives.

 

What is an issue is the inability to afford basic human needs of shelter, food and heating. 

 

I think we'll be seeing a lot of the latter rather than the former.

 

 

You really think people on c.£25k or households on c.£50k are going to struggle to pay for that? Even if they cut back and budget? I just can't see it. It'll be a pain, sure.

[The Mighty Thor]

Just now, Taffin said:

 

 

You really think people on c.£25k or households on c.£50k are going to struggle to pay for that? Even if they cut back and budget? I just can't see it. It'll be a pain, sure.

Yes.

Especially for single folks.

 

25k earnings is around 1700 pm

Rent? 700 - low ball number

Council tax 150

Food 400 - 100 a week 

Energy 300 - assumes lower use

 

So that's 1550 before a phone, broadband, travel to work, clothes and any number of things. 

 

So yes I really think folk on 25k will be in the shit. 

[The Real Maroonblood]

7 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

And not forgetting this is our "reward" for locking ourselves in our homes for two years.

 

Gonna say it, if we can hit the streets and protest over the shooting of a black man in America then why the hell are we not out there now. Our government has abandoned us and that should be worthy of a broken window or two.

That’s a good post.

[vegas-voss]

10 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Yes.

Especially for single folks.

 

25k earnings is around 1700 pm

Rent? 700 - low ball number

Council tax 150

Food 400 - 100 a week 

Energy 300 - assumes lower use

 

So that's 1550 before a phone, broadband, travel to work, clothes and any number of things. 

 

So yes I really think folk on 25k will be in the shit. 

No doubt get the usual replies to that mate.Tighten the belts etc etc

[Taffin]

2 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Yes.

Especially for single folks.

 

25k earnings is around 1700 pm

Rent? 700 - low ball number

Council tax 150

Food 400 - 100 a week 

Energy 300 - assumes lower use

 

So that's 1550 before a phone, broadband, travel to work, clothes and any number of things. 

 

So yes I really think folk on 25k will be in the shit. 

 

If people spend a lot, then yes. 

 

£150 a month council tax?!? That's band E territory. If a single person on £25k is in a band E property they'll generally be sharing and won't be paying the full amount themselves and shared rent will only be near £700 in the most expensive places. 

 

£14 quid a day on food as well, that's precisely what jonesy and I were talking about. What are they eating smoked salmon for every meal?

 

I worked mine out for my initial post on this subject, was just under £1000 per month. Including insurance, broadband and mobile.

[Shooter McGavin]

2 minutes ago, vegas-voss said:

No doubt get the usual replies to that mate.Tighten the belts etc etc

Aye just cancel a Netflix subscription then you’ll be fine apparently…

[Taffin]

3 minutes ago, vegas-voss said:

No doubt get the usual replies to that mate.Tighten the belts etc etc

 

Do you spend £14 a day on food? 

 

Fair play if you do, but I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest to someone who's having financial difficulties to maybe reassess that.

Edited August 18, 2022 by Taffin

[ri Alban]

2 minutes ago, vegas-voss said:

No doubt get the usual replies to that mate.Tighten the belts etc etc

I don't get it. We all should be able to live in  peace, but some folk think it's all right to tell the wee guy they can't have good things in life, if they can't pay these billion dollar gangsters, their over inflated exploitive bills. 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

36 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Agreed. 

 

No one should have to be making decisions between food and heating, especially if they have done little to create the situation. I do, however, know personally of people who are living 'on the breadline' and who are unbelievably wasteful with what money they do have.

 

I'm just repeating what a neighbour told me, I make no judgement myself.

A week or so ago he was in a queue behind a woman at a supermarket kiosk where you buy fags, lottery etc, anyways she was going about the cost of food, energy and how's she supposed to afford to eat and heat her flat........she then proceded to spend £60 on fags and scratch cards.

[ri Alban]

2 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Do you spend £14 a day on food? 

 

Fair play if you do, but I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest to someone who's having financial difficulties to maybe reassess that.

They're having financial difficulty because energy companies, oil and gas barons and the Tories are robbing us blind. But you think we should eat Tesco's cream crackers all week. Make sure it's one pack. I work my fecking arse off, I shouldn't have to pay these ***** 5 grand a year our my profits.

[vegas-voss]

3 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Do you spend £14 a day on food? 

 

Fair play if you do, but I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest to someone who's having financial difficulties to maybe reassess that.

I don't and me and my wife both work so we will get by but many others won't.There is a hell of a lot of folk on far less than the average £25k as well.No idea what we spend as a household for me the wife and the laddie though.

[vegas-voss]

5 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

I don't get it. We all should be able to live in  peace, but some folk think it's all right to tell the wee guy they can't have good things in life, if they can't pay these billion dollar gangsters, their over inflated exploitive bills. 

I don't get it either

[Boab]

15 hours ago, Cade said:

Christine Farnish, a non-executive Director on OFGEM's board, has resigned, saying that the regulator is working too much for the interests of business and not enough in the interests of consumers.

 

 

 

I see this has been swiftly brushed under the carpet on this thread.

Better to suggest to people to spend less on food etc !

Thick Lizzy has some supporters on here for sure, with similar ramblings.

Maybe explains why the moron is in a position to the PM, which is as laughable as it is tragic

[ri Alban]

4 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

I'm just repeating what a neighbour told me, I make no judgement myself.

A week or so ago he was in a queue behind a woman at a supermarket kiosk where you buy fags, lottery etc, anyways she was going about the cost of food, energy and how's she supposed to afford to eat and heat her flat........she then proceded to spend £60 on fags and scratch cards.

And? So that makes it all right to charge a fortune for her rent and heating. A tenner a day on a luxury and your judgement is on her.The £60 will be fast for the week or it could be shared, but no it's her having a luxury. Get the £60 in the Lecky and first, hen. These millionaires have a lifestyle to maintain.

[Taffin]

4 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

They're having financial difficulty because energy companies, oil and gas barons and the Tories are robbing us blind. But you think we should eat Tesco's cream crackers all week. Make sure it's one pack. I work my fecking arse off, I shouldn't have to pay these ***** 5 grand a year our my profits.

 

I don't disagree. I'm not advocating rip off energy prices. It's a lot of bollocks, but until there's significant change in the UK then we're sort of stuck with it. I'm just saying actually if you're not splashing the cash and on average salary then we can get by. By doing that we can afford to target the support better. 

 

I'm not saying anyone should eat cream crackers. I eat pretty well, I don't spend near £14 quid a day on food though. It's always the polar extremes on here. You could eat a lot better than crackers for say £8 a day. Straight away that's £180 per month saved on £14 a day.

 

4 minutes ago, vegas-voss said:

I don't and me and my wife both work so we will get by but many others won't.There is a hell of a lot of folk on far less than the average £25k as well.No idea what we spend as a household for me the wife and the laddie though.

 

Yeh some people will be screwed. I was originally quoting a post saying lower middle class people will be too. I don't agree, unless they're being pretty loose with the cash. I appreciate class systems are quite undefined so im just working off a arbitrary salary I think a lower middle class person would earn.

Edited August 18, 2022 by Taffin

[ri Alban]

Look, he's buying fags, officer. He should be topping up billionaire bonuses.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

4 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

And? So that makes it all right to charge a fortune for her rent and heating. A tenner a day on a luxury and your judgement is on her.The £60 will be fast for the week or it could be shared, but no it's her having a luxury. Get the £60 in the Lecky and first, hen. These millionaires have a lifestyle to maintain.

 

What part of "I make no judgement myself" do you not understand.

[Nookie Bear]

31 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

 

You really think people on c.£25k or households on c.£50k are going to struggle to pay for that? Even if they cut back and budget? I just can't see it. It'll be a pain, sure.

 

Yes they will struggle simply because most people will not have budgeted for this kind of increase in their outgoings.

 

Rightly or wrongly, even if a couple have a combined income of £100k then chances are their mortgage will reflect that, they will have other costly outgoings. Some of these will not be deemed necessary of course but were eminently affordable for years prior to 2022 so are not exactly frivolous either.

 

But people will find ways to cut back and that will have an imapct on the wider community. Withdrawing kids from non-essential activities like cubs or dancing classes. £30 to watch football? No chance. Businesses will suffer by paying more utility bills and having less customers.

 

Essentially we are reverting to another lockdown. Stay in, don't go out and don't spend money.

[Taffin]

9 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

Yes they will struggle simply because most people will not have budgeted for this kind of increase in their outgoings.

 

Rightly or wrongly, even if a couple have a combined income of £100k then chances are their mortgage will reflect that, they will have other costly outgoings. Some of these will not be deemed necessary of course but were eminently affordable for years prior to 2022 so are not exactly frivolous either.

 

But people will find ways to cut back and that will have an imapct on the wider community. Withdrawing kids from non-essential activities like cubs or dancing classes. £30 to watch football? No chance. Businesses will suffer by paying more utility bills and having less customers.

 

Essentially we are reverting to another lockdown. Stay in, don't go out and don't spend money.

 

Yeh, it's going to be pretty rubbish.

 

I guess I just don't see the benefit in approaching it with a negative attitude and moaning about it I suppose, it doesn't really help me. We'll have had about 6 months of foresight before it really bites to do what we can do mitigate the impact. I'm choosing to do that proactively and as positively as I can. 

Edited August 18, 2022 by Taffin

[doctor jambo]

1 minute ago, Taffin said:

 

Yeh, it's going to be pretty rubbish.

 

I guess I just don't see the benefit in approaching it with a negative attitude and moaning about it I suppose, it doesn't really help me. We'll have had about 6 months of foresight before it really bites to do what we can do mitigate the impact. I'm choosing to do that proactively and as positively as I can. 

Yeh, me too. Cutting back already.

There is not enough being done though.

Imagine if one of the other essential things was trebling in price …..this is a life saving essential, with high profits.

Why are the charges for shuffling electricity - the standing charge going up all the time?

I can understand the rise in generation costs, but the standing charge should surely be the same?

[Jambo-Jimbo]

11 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

 Businesses will suffer by paying more utility bills and having less customers.
 

 

 

 

Which is why I believe a lot of shops especially smaller local shops will cut their hours and maybe even cut the number of staff.

[Nookie Bear]

3 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Yeh, it's going to be pretty rubbish.

 

I guess I just don't see the benefit in approaching it with a negative attitude and moaning about it I suppose, it doesn't really help me. We'll have had about 6 months of foresight before it really bites to do what we can do mitigate the impact. I'm choosing to do that proactively and as positively as I can. 

 

True and i appreciate the angle you're coming at this from.

 

I feel this is such a change that it would have been very difficult to adequately prepare for it, especially as it may go on for years.

 

 

[Nookie Bear]

Just now, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Which is why I believe a lot of shops especially smaller local shops will cut their hours and maybe even cut the number of staff.

 

That would make sense.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

1 minute ago, doctor jambo said:

Yeh, me too. Cutting back already.

There is not enough being done though.

Imagine if one of the other essential things was trebling in price …..this is a life saving essential, with high profits.

Why are the charges for shuffling electricity - the standing charge going up all the time?

I can understand the rise in generation costs, but the standing charge should surely be the same?

 

Because they passed the costs of the failed energy providers onto the consumer, you me and everybody else.

[Doctor FinnBarr]

Thing that gets me is team managers at work (who earn more than me) have been awarded a 4% pay increase thanks to USDAW. Ours is 0%, thanks USDAW, my £10 per month is being stopped as of now. Dirty crawling ****s to management anyhow.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

1 minute ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

That would make sense.

 

I think lots won't have much choice, it'll be that or shut for good.

[Dazo]

WTF is going on here. Taffin getting it tight because he suggests people should be tightening their belts ? 😂

 

Isnt that exactly what we should all be doing ? He isn’t excusing the energy companies or the rip of prices ffs. No wonder people will struggle if this is seen as bad advice. 
 

Get yourselves on a protest, that will pay your bills. 🙄

[vegas-voss]

2 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

I think lots won't have much choice, it'll be that or shut for good.

Our local shop been in the same hands for 30 years.Jacked it in 3 months ago.Shop is up for sale or lease with no takers as yet.I expect many more will follow.

[doctor jambo]

6 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Because they passed the costs of the failed energy providers onto the consumer, you me and everybody else.

What costs? 
i paid all my bills and continue to do so after my provider went under.

a company goes under then that is that

.

new provider, higher bills but so what? Where is the extra cost?

[Dazo]

4 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

What costs? 
i paid all my bills and continue to do so after my provider went under.

a company goes under then that is that

.

new provider, higher bills but so what? Where is the extra cost?

Credit balance for one I’d assume. 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

3 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

What costs? 
i paid all my bills and continue to do so after my provider went under.

a company goes under then that is that

.

new provider, higher bills but so what? Where is the extra cost?

 

Martin Lewis explains it here.

https://www.express.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/1588395/Martin-Lewis-energy-standing-charge-gas-electricity-bills

[Doctor FinnBarr]

6 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

What costs? 
i paid all my bills and continue to do so after my provider went under.

a company goes under then that is that

.

new provider, higher bills but so what? Where is the extra cost?

 

Is that not a bit of a contradiction?

[Boab]

7 minutes ago, Dazo said:

WTF is going on here. Taffin getting it tight because he suggests people should be tightening their belts ? 😂

 

Isnt that exactly what we should all be doing ? He isn’t excusing the energy companies or the rip of prices ffs. No wonder people will struggle if this is seen as bad advice. 
 

Get yourselves on a protest, that will pay your bills. 🙄

C'mon, D, it's not that. 

As it hits, people will do what they need to do to get through this winter.

It's condescending to query how much people should be spending on food...and questioning it !

It's classic Tory speak to talk about work harder etc ! They are the ones who should be getting everyone's ire, not how much we spend on a weekly shop ffs !

They could overhaul OFGEM quite easily. The resignation of a director tells you everything you need to know about how the government are acting.