energy prices

[ri Alban]

Water chief executives paid fortunes in Bonuses and some paid over £2m in wages. It's fecking bent.

[ri Alban]

How can businesses open in their quiet days with energy bills this high. Some pubs, restaurants, gyms and others will have to maybe open Thursday to Sunday. 

[GBJambo]

11 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

How can businesses open in their quiet days with energy bills this high. Some pubs, restaurants, gyms and others will have to maybe open Thursday to Sunday. 

The price  for meals, pints , gyms will rise to cover the rise in energy bills

[Victorian]

Get this though... a belter.

 

Seemingly a recent poll showed that over 75% of Tory supporters back a temporary nationalisation of the energy market.  Allow it to sink in.

 

Do ye,  aye?

 

Amazing,  isn't it?  How perceived socialism can become ever so welcome to people when their own pound notes are under threat.  How many of these people would suddenly back a policy that their party is dead set against if they were not among the people facing these energy costs?  Not ****ing many.  But happy to cherry pick a non-Tory policy when the wolf is at their door.  

 

Predatory free market capitalism and a corrupt government should only clobber the peasants,  innit.

[Cade]

Energy price cap is only for households, not businesses.

 

Tens of thousands of small businesses are going to shut down due to the rampant greed and blatant profiteering going on.

 

 

[Victorian]

2 minutes ago, Cade said:

Energy price cap is only for households, not businesses.

 

Tens of thousands of small businesses are going to shut down due to the rampant greed and blatant profiteering going on.

 

 

 

The toddlers are in charge though and the new chief toddler could not give **** #1.  The economy is going to take a hammering.

 

Apparently it's the fault of "Treasury orthodoxy" though.  Some mysterious force in the fabric of Whitehall has been stopping the government from managing fiscal policy for all these years.  They had all the right answers all the time but were stopped by orthodoxy.

 

The bullshit is surreal.  

[rudi must stay]

Lucky I installed my sails I'll be fine 

[Unknown user]

2 hours ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

Wow. April figure now projected to be £5856 ? A few more days of wild price fluctuations on the energy markets will comfortably see us through the £6000 mark. Which will consequently smash the 45million people in fuel poverty mark, expected this winter. And some people think the government shouldn’t be intervening?

 

45 million in fuel poverty, out of a population of 67 million.

 

Too ****ing right, "Tories bad"

[vegas-voss]

20 hours ago, henryheart said:

 

Certainly is. To an extent we have all either got used to or have never experienced life without central heating. I was primary school age when we eventually got central heating. It was linked to a coal fire meaning that there was no heat until the fire was lit in the morning. In the winter you always woke up to a freezing house and it was not uncommon to have ice on the inside of the house window panes - no double glazing in those days. Bedrooms were for sleeping in only and the family lived in the lounge and not spread around the house. Most people now would find this intolerable; I wouldn't want it now, I don't want to go back to living in a cold house, but at the time we just lived with it quite happily. 

Can remember having paraffin heaters in the winter.No double glazing old sash windows ( my Dad used to tack polythene on inside in the winter ).Coal fire like you said. Old immersion boiler for the bath.As you say you just got on with it but **** we should not need to go back.

[vegas-voss]

2 hours ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

Wow. April figure now projected to be £5856 ? A few more days of wild price fluctuations on the energy markets will comfortably see us through the £6000 mark. Which will consequently smash the 45million people in fuel poverty mark, expected this winter. And some people think the government shouldn’t be intervening?

It's just numbers now it's reaching levels now that you just can't comprehend.

[heartsfc_fan]

Nearly £6k?! Jesus christ.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

24 minutes ago, vegas-voss said:

Can remember having paraffin heaters in the winter.No double glazing old sash windows ( my Dad used to tack polythene on inside in the winter ).Coal fire like you said. Old immersion boiler for the bath.As you say you just got on with it but **** we should not need to go back.

 

Yeh you just got on with it because you knew nothing else, I never thought I'd see the day that ice on the inside of windows was a very real prospect for many again, but that's where we are now

 

 

20 minutes ago, vegas-voss said:

It's just numbers now it's reaching levels now that you just can't comprehend.

 

Yip, I've stopped worrying about it, the shit is gonna happen no matter what I do, so there's no point worrying or getting angry about it, as the shit will still happen.  If/when it reaches £500 - £600+ per month, I won't pay that, I can't pay that, so there'll be no heating on and lights will only be on when moving around the house, and there'll be plenty more doing like what we'll have to end up doing.

[jambopilms]

Energy costs increase by 3-4-5 hundred quid a month, the government will reduce some tax to save us 50 quid a month and think they are doing us a favour.

[vegas-voss]

22 minutes ago, jambopilms said:

Energy costs increase by 3-4-5 hundred quid a month, the government will reduce some tax to save us 50 quid a month and think they are doing us a favour.

While they don't pay anything

[Victorian]

24 minutes ago, jambopilms said:

Energy costs increase by 3-4-5 hundred quid a month, the government will reduce some tax to save us 50 quid a month and think they are doing us a favour.

 

A huge part of society wont get anywhere near to a £50 tax reduction.  Either by not paying tax at all or earnings of a lower level that don't benefit much at all from reduced rates.

 

It's like aid workers turning up to feed people in a famine and denying food to anyone that's too emaciated.  It's totally arse over tit and these people are not right in the head.

[The Mighty Thor]

Junta gonna Junta 

[kila]

There’ll be an uprising. There has to be. These rich elite cun** think they can live off money - eat it, drink it, but they’ll find out soon enough when the majority down tools and start burning their mansions. 

[vegas-voss]

British gas recommended we change our direct debit to £158 a month.Two minutes later they recommended we change it to £224 🤣 now that's inflation 

[Cade]

Again, I'll ask the question, since nobody seems to be able to answer it;

 

The people worst affected by this are people earning so little that they're under the threshold for paying income tax and NI, so how is tax cuts helping these people, and what help is being offered to them?

And why is the UK government using your taxes to give to you to give straight to the energy companies who are making record profits? Why are they being subsidised by us?

[Victorian]

4 minutes ago, Cade said:

Again, I'll ask the question, since nobody seems to be able to answer it;

 

The people worst affected by this are people earning so little that they're under the threshold for paying income tax and NI, so how is tax cuts helping these people, and what help is being offered to them?

And why is the UK government using your taxes to give to you to give straight to the energy companies who are making record profits? Why are they being subsidised by us?

 

Basically because the government is a prisoner of it's own ideology that has sustained it in the past.  It can't adopt the kind of policy that would go a long way towards an instant solution because it would represent a hard right wing government admitting that a perceived left wing ideology has rode to the rescue.  It would severely undermine their USP.  

Edited August 19, 2022 by Victorian

[WorldChampions1902]

57 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Basically because the government is a prisoner of it's own ideology that has sustained it in the past.  It can't adopt the kind of policy that would go a long way towards an instant solution because it would represent a hard right wing government admitting that a perceived left wing ideology has rode to the rescue.  It would severely undermine their USP.  

This.

[Victorian]

3 minutes ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

This.

 

If they choose to play the long game then they'll do **** all and accept defeat at the next election.  Stay true to their ideology and wait out the economic shock and reclaim power from their latent support base soon after.  

 

If they play the game of clinging on at any cost then they'll eventually have to adopt policies from the perceived socialist orthodoxy,  but heavily,  heavily repackaged and disguised as their own 'one nation Conservative' kindness.

 

Nationalisation = 'temporary market adjustment hiatus' or some other bunco booth card trick.

[The Mighty Thor]

1 hour ago, Cade said:

Again, I'll ask the question, since nobody seems to be able to answer it;

 

The people worst affected by this are people earning so little that they're under the threshold for paying income tax and NI, so how is tax cuts helping these people, and what help is being offered to them?

And why is the UK government using your taxes to give to you to give straight to the energy companies who are making record profits? Why are they being subsidised by us?

I think it's referred to as double dipping. 

 

Any solution that does not involve the energy price being capped at a low level and these greedy vultures being told to lump it is unacceptable IMO. 

 

If they need bail outs to survive then **** them. Nationalise them. 

[hmfcbilly]

5 hours ago, ri Alban said:

How can businesses open in their quiet days with energy bills this high. Some pubs, restaurants, gyms and others will have to maybe open Thursday to Sunday. 

This is exactly what I'm wondering just now. My thoughts are that the imminent recession will be so much worse than the financial crisis of 2008 with the majority of it down to utility bill prices. Every time the next massive prediction comes I think many people are saying...surely it can't go any higher? Yet, if that 6k a year figure comes true, I can't see how businesses will remain open? Big, empty offices getting heated for blended working staff too...doesn't make sense. I'm no conspiracy theory but this reeks of when stuff was 'leaked' to the press in covid times about how restrictions 'might' change. Low and behold, 2 weeks later it often became reality! 

[Francis Albert]

On 18/08/2022 at 21:50, henryheart said:

 

Certainly is. To an extent we have all either got used to or have never experienced life without central heating. I was primary school age when we eventually got central heating. It was linked to a coal fire meaning that there was no heat until the fire was lit in the morning. In the winter you always woke up to a freezing house and it was not uncommon to have ice on the inside of the house window panes - no double glazing in those days. Bedrooms were for sleeping in only and the family lived in the lounge and not spread around the house. Most people now would find this intolerable; I wouldn't want it now, I don't want to go back to living in a cold house, but at the time we just lived with it quite happily. 

Anyone other than the rich will recognise that as what most people growing up in the 50s and 60s experienced. And most of us did not feel deprived. We were living in better conditions than all previous generations. Baths and inside toilets, hot running water were still relatively new luxuries. And as you say we lived happily. Are children happier today? 

Of course no-one wants to go back to old ways but relative poverty as measured today does not equate to poverty or even normal living standards 50 or 60 years ago.

[Gizmo]

9 hours ago, doctor jambo said:

Wait until we go on strike- see what they make of them biscuits .

Liz Truss will have something to say about that, after getting over the shock that the weekly applause didn't improve the lot of hard pressed NHS staff a jot.
 

8 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

The announcement of the October price cap is due next Friday. Looking at the forecasts for future rises, it is seriously scary.

 

Energy consultancy, Auxilione, has predicted the cap will be set at £3,576 per year for the average household. The cap is currently £1,971.

Auxilone has also forecast that based on Thursday’s gas prices, the price cap will hit £4,704 next January and £5,856 in April.

Some "cap". The tory *******s have to stop the cap now and freeze it. They are meant to be the party of commerce, not much commerce gonnna happen if the energy companies get all the money in circulation and businesses go to the wall. 

[Nookie Bear]

8 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

Anyone other than the rich will recognise that as what most people growing up in the 50s and 60s experienced. And most of us did not feel deprived. We were living in better conditions than all previous generations. Baths and inside toilets, hot running water were still relatively new luxuries. And as you say we lived happily. Are children happier today? 

Of course no-one wants to go back to old ways but relative poverty as measured today does not equate to poverty or even normal living standards 50 or 60 years ago.

But you would feel deprived if you had to go back to those conditions from where you are now. 
 

And you would feel angry if that happens, not through your own stupidity, but through forces out with your control  

[Nookie Bear]

13 hours ago, Victorian said:

Get this though... a belter.

 

Seemingly a recent poll showed that over 75% of Tory supporters back a temporary nationalisation of the energy market.  Allow it to sink in.

 

Do ye,  aye?

 

Amazing,  isn't it?  How perceived socialism can become ever so welcome to people when their own pound notes are under threat.  How many of these people would suddenly back a policy that their party is dead set against if they were not among the people facing these energy costs?  Not ****ing many.  But happy to cherry pick a non-Tory policy when the wolf is at their door.  

 

Predatory free market capitalism and a corrupt government should only clobber the peasants,  innit.

But many people will vote Tory for reasons other than their policy on nationalisation so this is not a deal breaker for them. 
It’s an exceptional circumstance - like furlough - that needs government intervention. That’s the justification. 
 

Not disagreeing at your point and the irony is clear but just saying 🤷‍♂️

[hmfc_liam06]

16 hours ago, GBJambo said:

This crisis is worse than Covid yet the government don’t give a ****

They weren’t exactly slow in firing out 6 figure grants to businesses during covid.

 

 

[Francis Albert]

2 hours ago, Nookie Bear said:

But you would feel deprived if you had to go back to those conditions from where you are now. 
 

And you would feel angry if that happens, not through your own stupidity, but through forces out with your control  

I was just backing a posters description of how most of us lived back then.

Of course I would feel deprived and angry if  I had to revert to that life.  But the fact is most  of us are not facing that. 

I may have to take fewer holidays, including dropping the idea of away trips in Europe, eat and drink out less often, postpone buying a new car or new kitchen etc. (all of these incidentally have detrimental effects for the economy)

I just think that the response should be more targeted.    In the good old Marxist saying "From each according to his ability to each according to his needs".

If you define poverty as living in a households with below 60% of mean income then the same proportion will always be "poor". If you don't target the benefits of any action towards those most in need you will actually increase the proportion of poor families.

Sure look at windfall taxes and distribute the proceeds to those in most need. 

 

 

Edited August 20, 2022 by Francis Albert

[OBE]

We've ***ked up the world (climate change). We need to use less energy. We're painfully paying more for energy, in turn we use less because of affordability, but still contribute much more tax & duty to pay for the pandemic... coincidence? My arse...🍑...it's all 🔗⛓️🔗.

[Footballfirst]

The Scotsman is reporting that NHS Scotland is expecting to pay £71m more for gas and electricity in this financial year. It's inevitable that such rises will impact on spending both within and outside the NHS.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

18 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

The Scotsman is reporting that NHS Scotland is expecting to pay £71m more for gas and electricity in this financial year. It's inevitable that such rises will impact on spending both within and outside the NHS.

 

Yip, there'll be at least £71m less in the budget for the treatment of patients, paying staff, buying new equipment and so on.

 

It's going to be the same for every business and organisation, and they don't have a price cap either.  I read the other week about a Chinese Takeaway up Aberdeen way that got a bill for £10k for the previous month's usage.  High streets and retail parks are going to be looking very empty by this time next year, as a lot of business' ain't gonna survive.

[The Real Maroonblood]

5 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Yip, there'll be at least £71m less in the budget for the treatment of patients, paying staff, buying new equipment and so on.

 

It's going to be the same for every business and organisation, and they don't have a price cap either.  I read the other week about a Chinese Takeaway up Aberdeen way that got a bill for £10k for the previous month's usage.  High streets and retail parks are going to be looking very empty by this time next year, as a lot of business' ain't gonna survive.

and the UK Government don’t give a flying ****.

[Mikey1874]

3 hours ago, Nookie Bear said:

But many people will vote Tory for reasons other than their policy on nationalisation so this is not a deal breaker for them. 
It’s an exceptional circumstance - like furlough - that needs government intervention. That’s the justification. 
 

Not disagreeing at your point and the irony is clear but just saying 🤷‍♂️

 

Well there is a change. I'd think these sort of polls continuing for a few weeks will move us to Labour's position of freezing the cap. 

 

 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

18 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

and the UK Government don’t give a flying ****.

 

Let's see what happens when the new PM takes over, I live in hope that the current inaction is all because of the waiting for the new head spaffer to take over.   I sincerely hope that's what it is.

 

[The Mighty Thor]

24 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Let's see what happens when the new PM takes over, I live in hope that the current inaction is all because of the waiting for the new head spaffer to take over.   I sincerely hope that's what it is.

 

It's the hope that kills you.

 

Truss is a malevolent may-bot type.

 

The only thing they'll be doing is figuring out how they can keep the energy company (their donors and sponsors) profits as high as possible by loading 'support' on to the public purse debt levels. 

[Taffin]

18 hours ago, Victorian said:

Get this though... a belter.

 

Seemingly a recent poll showed that over 75% of Tory supporters back a temporary nationalisation of the energy market.  Allow it to sink in.

 

Do ye,  aye?

 

Amazing,  isn't it?  How perceived socialism can become ever so welcome to people when their own pound notes are under threat.  How many of these people would suddenly back a policy that their party is dead set against if they were not among the people facing these energy costs?  Not ****ing many.  But happy to cherry pick a non-Tory policy when the wolf is at their door.  

 

Predatory free market capitalism and a corrupt government should only clobber the peasants,  innit.

 

Not surprising...it's precisely what we saw during COVID. Health was an equaliser and suddenly a swathe of the Tory core voters were under threat and wanting socialist measures to keep them safe.

 

People are dicks.

[vegas-voss]

4 hours ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Yip, there'll be at least £71m less in the budget for the treatment of patients, paying staff, buying new equipment and so on.

 

It's going to be the same for every business and organisation, and they don't have a price cap either.  I read the other week about a Chinese Takeaway up Aberdeen way that got a bill for £10k for the previous month's usage.  High streets and retail parks are going to be looking very empty by this time next year, as a lot of business' ain't gonna survive.

Ghost towns

[Jambo-Jimbo]

15% of small to medium sized businesses fear they may close or have to downsize due to the cost of energy, the Federation of Small Businesses says.

https://news.sky.com/story/small-businesses-teetering-on-the-brink-as-energy-prices-soar-federation-of-small-businesses-warns-12677440

 

Further down the same article, Auxilione have updated their prediction of how much the average household will be paying come April.

Auxilione, an independent energy consultancy, today predicted the price cap could reach £3,576 in October, rising to £4,799 in January, and finally hitting £6,089 in April.

 

[The Mighty Thor]

9 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Further down the same article, Auxilione have updated their prediction of how much the average household will be paying come April.

Auxilione, an independent energy consultancy, today predicted the price cap could reach £3,576 in October, rising to £4,799 in January, and finally hitting £6,089 in April.

 

£500 a month 😂

 

Aye but tax cuts likesy😂

[Jambo-Jimbo]

3 minutes ago, vegas-voss said:

Ghost towns

 

Our High Street (Innerleithen) is starting to look a bit bare, with 4 shops having closed in the last 6 - 8 weeks & the BoS at the start of August, in fairness, 2 shops were rarely ever open anyway and 1 of the 4 have already re-opened as something else, but most of the shops relay on the passing bike trade and that'll start to wind down for the winter in the next month or two.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

5 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

£500 a month 😂

 

Aye but tax cuts likesy😂

 

For 90% of those working (quite probably more) tax cuts won't make the slightest dent in these energy price rises and the other 10% probably don't need to worry about paying the bill in the first place.

[ri Alban]

6 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

I was just backing a posters description of how most of us lived back then.

Of course I would feel deprived and angry if  I had to revert to that life.  But the fact is most  of us are not facing that. 

I may have to take fewer holidays, including dropping the idea of away trips in Europe, eat and drink out less often, postpone buying a new car or new kitchen etc. (all of these incidentally have detrimental effects for the economy)

I just think that the response should be more targeted.    In the good old Marxist saying "From each according to his ability to each according to his needs".

If you define poverty as living in a households with below 60% of mean income then the same proportion will always be "poor". If you don't target the benefits of any action towards those most in need you will actually increase the proportion of poor families.

Sure look at windfall taxes and distribute the proceeds to those in most need. 

 

 

I'd rather everyone got help, then everyone will get the help. If it's targeted, folk who should have got it, won't. The government can take it back from the ones who don't need it, through tax or some other way, bud.  Just my opinion.  👍

Edited August 20, 2022 by ri Alban

[ri Alban]

Why don't they scrap VAT for 12 months.

[ri Alban]

5 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Well there is a change. I'd think these sort of polls continuing for a few weeks will move us to Labour's position of freezing the cap. 

 

 

If labour promise a Indyref, they'd take all Scottish Mps, just to get rid of these helmets.

[SwindonJambo]

1 hour ago, ri Alban said:

Why don't they scrap VAT for 12 months.

I agree. VAT on home fuel was only brought in about 30 years ago. But it’s only 5% and not  20% so though it would help, it wouldn’t help that much. 

[ri Alban]

7 minutes ago, SwindonJambo said:

I agree. VAT on home fuel was only brought in about 30 years ago. But it’s only 5% and not  20% so though it would help, it wouldn’t help that much. 

VAT scrapped on everything would.

[SwindonJambo]

7 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

VAT scrapped on everything would.

Not a snowball’s chance in hell of any party ever proposing that. The tax take from VAT is over £150bn pa. They’d have to whack up tax elsewhere to compensate. Pretty much every developed country on the planet has VAT or something similar.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/hmrc-tax-and-nics-receipts-for-the-uk/hmrc-tax-receipts-and-national-insurance-contributions-for-the-uk-new-annual-bulletin

[WorldChampions1902]

2 hours ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

15% of small to medium sized businesses fear they may close or have to downsize due to the cost of energy, the Federation of Small Businesses says.

https://news.sky.com/story/small-businesses-teetering-on-the-brink-as-energy-prices-soar-federation-of-small-businesses-warns-12677440

 

Further down the same article, Auxilione have updated their prediction of how much the average household will be paying come April.

Auxilione, an independent energy consultancy, today predicted the price cap could reach £3,576 in October, rising to £4,799 in January, and finally hitting £6,089 in April.

 

As I predicted on the previous page 24 hours ago, the revised analyst projections have breached the £6k mark. Just how much higher can it go?