energy prices

[Unknown user]

8 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Because of many reasons, such as better government support, better infrastructure such as acually have gas storage capacity such as Germany or being able to produce most of your energy themselves in the case of France being mostly nuclear thereby not relying on buying energy on the wholesale market.  More state owned percentages of energy companies etc etc etc.

 

However German & Italian customers are paying more than we are in the UK, this was in the Financial Times just last week.

Direct comparisons are difficult but the typical Italian household is forecast to spend around £2,300 annually at present, compared to a current British price cap of £1,971. A July estimate for households in Germany put the average bill at £2,759.

https://www.ft.com/content/0a5ebc7e-81a0-446f-8174-64ee270b0f4f

 

 

I read yesterday that in April, Italy's regulator increased the leccy cap by 25%, and the gas by 2%

[jack D and coke]

😐

[Unknown user]

21 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

😐

 

This is something else I've been thinking about. 

 

Who gets per poorer value than most via pay as you go meters?

Those who have struggled with bills - the poor, the unemployed, those off work on SSP, pensioners.

 

And who's in the house all day, forced to use energy, especially heating through winter?

 

We'll see millions, workers and their families dragged into fuel poverty over the next few months as it creeps up the social ladder. At least something's upwardly mobile in 2022.

 

I'm never sure if it's proper nasty, or just that the UK government genuinely couldn't GAF about the lives of ordinary people.

 

Class war. They're just not admitting it.

Edited August 16, 2022 by Smithee

[jack D and coke]

9 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

This is something else I've been thinking about. 

 

Who gets per poorer value than most via pay as you go meters?

Those who have struggled with bills - the poor, the unemployed, those off work on SSP, pensioners.

 

And who's in the house all day, forced to use energy, especially heating through winter?

 

We'll see millions, workers and their families dragged into fuel poverty over the next few months as it creeps up the social ladder. At least something's upwardly mobile in 2022.

 

I'm never sure if it's proper nasty, or just that the UK government genuinely couldn't GAF about the lives of ordinary people.

 

Class war. They're just not admitting it.

Yeah if it’s a cold winter there’s going to be some sad stories this year. Over 50% of households in energy debt…insane. Another rise in January too. 
**** me. 

[Unknown user]

10 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Yeah if it’s a cold winter there’s going to be some sad stories this year. Over 50% of households in energy debt…insane. Another rise in January too. 
**** me. 

I'm considering getting the gas cut off and moving to an electric shower and wearing layers instead.

 

Having 2 sets of standing charges is hard to justify on universal credit.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

1 hour ago, Smithee said:

 

I read yesterday that in April, Italy's regulator increased the leccy cap by 25%, and the gas by 2%

 

Like I said some governments have done more than others, and also probably because the protests on the streets of Rome prompted the Italian government to absorb the price rises that the Italian regulator (ARERA) had said bills would have to increase by, 94% for electricity & 131% for gas. 

https://www.euractiv.com/section/politics/short_news/italian-gas-electricity-prices-surge-despite-government-interventions/

 

Whilst Romans took to the streets, what did we do in Britain, yip SFA, lay back and took it, and now come October & January we'll be getting it dry.

 

Mass protests outside of parliament/s and the offices of the energy producers need to happen, the quicker the better, to concentrate the minds of the government and the executives of these big companies, once protests are outside their front door, you just watch how quick the price of energy falls and action from the government.

Edited August 16, 2022 by Jambo-Jimbo

[jack D and coke]

6 minutes ago, Smithee said:

I'm considering getting the gas cut off and moving to an electric shower and wearing layers instead.

 

Having 2 sets of standing charges is hard to justify on universal credit.

It’s mibbe not a bad idea.
I was just thinking about things like pubs tho. Pubs are quiet a lot of days during the week, restaurants too. They’ll have to put a bit on the prices to compensate and surely they’ll just shut their doors now half the week rather than use energy in the colder weather with lights on all day and the heating too. A lot of people will have less money to go out for beers or eat out as well…

Some winter in store for some this might be be. 
 

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Like I said some governments have done more than others, and also probably because the protests on the streets of Rome prompted the Italian government to absorb the price rises that the Italian regulator (ARERA) had said bills would have to increase by, 94% for electricity & 131% for gas. 

https://www.euractiv.com/section/politics/short_news/italian-gas-electricity-prices-surge-despite-government-interventions/

 

Whilst Romans took to the streets, what did we do in Britain, yip SFA, lay back and took it, and now come October & January we'll be getting it dry.

 

Mass protests outside of parliament/s and the offices of the energy producers need to happen, the quicker the better, to concentrate the minds of the government and the executives of these big companies, once protests are outside their front door, you just watch how quick the price of energy falls and action from the government.

 

I absolutely agree, but it's the government that needs to man TF up and take action, and it'll probably take us doing the same to force the issue.

The energy companies are private companies, they exist to be greedy *******s on behalf of their shareholders over the needs of their customers. They're obliged to prioritise their financial well being above our interests.

 

If they wanted, the government could tell the providers "**** you, this is what you're charging until we say otherwise. If you don't like it, **** off and we'll nationalise."

 

People tell me it's impossible, that's it's totally against Tory ideology. 

 

Well it's a shit ideology.

[Taffin]

Just now, jack D and coke said:

It’s mibbe not a bad idea.
I was just thinking about things like pubs tho. Pubs are quiet a lot of days during the week, restaurants too. They’ll have to put a bit on the prices to compensate and surely they’ll just shut their doors now half the week rather than use energy in the colder weather with lights on all day and the heating too. A lot of people will have less money to go out for beers or eat out as well…

Some winter in store for some this might be be. 
 

 

The offset of that is people going out because it's cheaper. I'm already considering spending my evenings in the local pub. Roaring fire and heat for the price of a pint will be less than heating the flat.

[Unknown user]

Just now, jack D and coke said:

It’s mibbe not a bad idea.
I was just thinking about things like pubs tho. Pubs are quiet a lot of days during the week, restaurants too. They’ll have to put a bit on the prices to compensate and surely they’ll just shut their doors now half the week rather than use energy in the colder weather with lights on all day and the heating too. A lot of people will have less money to go out for beers or eat out as well…

Some winter in store for some this might be be. 
 

 

But then, this was the original purpose of the local pub. People didn't have decent heating and lighting, there was a whole family in a room. They went to, literally, the house for the public where there's a roaring fire, light, and entertainment.

Maybe there'll be a rebirth of the local public house!

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, Taffin said:

 

The offset of that is people going out because it's cheaper. I'm already considering spending my evenings in the local pub. Roaring fire and heat for the price of a pint will be less than heating the flat.

great minds, or fools?

[Taffin]

Just now, Smithee said:

great minds, or fools?

 

Great minds until closing time...need to make sure you've drank enough for the beer jacket once you're home.

[jack D and coke]

5 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

The offset of that is people going out because it's cheaper. I'm already considering spending my evenings in the local pub. Roaring fire and heat for the price of a pint will be less than heating the flat.

 

4 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

But then, this was the original purpose of the local pub. People didn't have decent heating and lighting, there was a whole family in a room. They went to, literally, the house for the public where there's a roaring fire, light, and entertainment.

Maybe there'll be a rebirth of the local public house!

Christ…pub every night? 😀

[Boab]

17 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Like I said some governments have done more than others, and also probably because the protests on the streets of Rome prompted the Italian government to absorb the price rises that the Italian regulator (ARERA) had said bills would have to increase by, 94% for electricity & 131% for gas. 

https://www.euractiv.com/section/politics/short_news/italian-gas-electricity-prices-surge-despite-government-interventions/

 

Whilst Romans took to the streets, what did we do in Britain, yip SFA, lay back and took it, and now come October & January we'll be getting it dry.

 

Mass protests outside of parliament/s and the offices of the energy producers need to happen, the quicker the better, to concentrate the minds of the government and the executives of these big companies, once protests are outside their front door, you just watch how quick the price of energy falls and action from the government.

There have been protests. Granted, not on a huge scale, but they will get bigger. At Scottish Power and Parliament. More planned this week.

[doctor jambo]

The one thing that has not been addressed is taking on opec+.

they are refusing to increase production to keep prices high.

This cartel need disbanded asap.

we would not tolerate it in any other industry.

imagine if pharma did it?

Get them feckin told or smack travel bans and sanctions on all those folks involved.

[Boab]

Just now, doctor jambo said:

The one thing that has not been addressed is taking on opec+.

they are refusing to increase production to keep prices high.

This cartel need disbanded asap.

we would not tolerate it in any other industry.

imagine if pharma did it?

Get them feckin told or smack travel bans and sanctions on all those folks involved.

Upset our Arab pals ?

Doubt that will happen.

[Cade]

Or you go heavily into renewables so you're not reliant on hostile nations blackmailing you for their resources?

 

Should have done that after the Oil Crisis in the 1970s.

 

Feck the arabs and russkies and feck their oil and gas.

[Taffin]

42 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

 

Christ…pub every night? 😀

 

Desperate times and all that...I don't want to of course, it's a necessity.

[Taffin]

7 minutes ago, Cade said:

Or you go heavily into renewables so you're not reliant on hostile nations blackmailing you for their resources?

 

Should have done that after the Oil Crisis in the 1970s.

 

Feck the arabs and russkies and feck their oil and gas.

 

Absolutely this. Something's only happen due to necessity, amazing how suddenly working from home etc was possible as it was needed despite the tech being there already. There's always a way, but you need a will. Hopefully this can be the catalyst to switch to a more renewable future

[hmfc_liam06]

1 hour ago, jack D and coke said:

😐

I’m £300 per month on a train ticket, so running a laptop at home will be insignificant in comparison.

[jack D and coke]

2 minutes ago, hmfc_liam06 said:

I’m £300 per month on a train ticket, so running a laptop at home will be insignificant in comparison.

😳

If a cold winter though added to having your heating on all day too?

Edited August 16, 2022 by jack D and coke

[hmfc_liam06]

1 minute ago, jack D and coke said:

😳

Fife commuters get ripped off. Was a £3k wage rise overnight when covid struck, just by not having to buy my monthly pass.

[jack D and coke]

1 minute ago, hmfc_liam06 said:

Fife commuters get ripped off. Was a £3k wage rise overnight when covid struck, just by not having to buy my monthly pass.

Sounds like it bud…

[Nookie Bear]

1 hour ago, jack D and coke said:

It’s mibbe not a bad idea.
I was just thinking about things like pubs tho. Pubs are quiet a lot of days during the week, restaurants too. They’ll have to put a bit on the prices to compensate and surely they’ll just shut their doors now half the week rather than use energy in the colder weather with lights on all day and the heating too. A lot of people will have less money to go out for beers or eat out as well…

Some winter in store for some this might be be. 
 

 

Joking aside (or were you?) i can see people taking laptops to Starbucks and nursing a coffee all day just to get free heating.

[jack D and coke]

2 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

Joking aside (or were you?) i can see people taking laptops to Starbucks and nursing a coffee all day just to get free heating.

No wasn’t joking I was wondering how they’ll pay their bills if heating on all day in a big pub. If this winter is cold (and wouldn’t that just be fecking typical) their bills will be telephone numbers. 

Starbucks aside I don’t see the smaller pubs or coffee shops staying open if people go and and basically sit with an empty glass or cup all day. 

[Boab]

16 minutes ago, hmfc_liam06 said:

I’m £300 per month on a train ticket, so running a laptop at home will be insignificant in comparison.

Is it a 3 bar laptop ?

🥴

[Jambo-Jimbo]

1 hour ago, Smithee said:

 

 

 

If they wanted, the government could tell the providers "**** you, this is what you're charging until we say otherwise. If you don't like it, **** off and we'll nationalise."

 

 

 

Or nationalize Bulb whom the government are propping up anyway, reduce the rates well below everybody else and watch the customers flock in their millions to join Bulb, other providers/suppliers/companies will either have to do the same or go to the wall.

 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

1 hour ago, Boab said:

There have been protests. Granted, not on a huge scale, but they will get bigger. At Scottish Power and Parliament. More planned this week.

 

Yip, and a few days after the Scottish Power protests, we have Keith Anderson the boss of Scottish Power calling for an energy price cap freeze for 2 years.............I rest my case.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

16 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

No wasn’t joking I was wondering how they’ll pay their bills if heating on all day in a big pub. If this winter is cold (and wouldn’t that just be fecking typical) their bills will be telephone numbers. 

Starbucks aside I don’t see the smaller pubs or coffee shops staying open if people go and and basically sit with an empty glass or cup all day. 

 

Not just pubs but shops as well.

I said yesterday that I could see shops cutting their winter hours, so as to save money on heating and lighting their premises.

By coincidence I noticed my local butcher has a sign up for new opening hours, for years it's been 6am to 5pm, from now it's 7am to 3pm, probably as much to do with people spending less money, so not worth his while to stay open, but he'll also save on 3 hours gas/electric everyday, that'll save a lot over the winter months.  I can see many other businesses doing similar.

[Boab]

7 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Not just pubs but shops as well.

I said yesterday that I could see shops cutting their winter hours, so as to save money on heating and lighting their premises.

By coincidence I noticed my local butcher has a sign up for new opening hours, for years it's been 6am to 5pm, from now it's 7am to 3pm, probably as much to do with people spending less money, so not worth his while to stay open, but he'll also save on 3 hours gas/electric everyday, that'll save a lot over the winter months.  I can see many other businesses doing similar.

Yea, that's the crux of it. People have to use leccy etc but don't have to go out. Businesses will suffer badly this winter. If business gets on the gov's case now, it will help surely.

[Unknown user]

26 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Or nationalize Bulb whom the government are propping up anyway, reduce the rates well below everybody else and watch the customers flock in their millions to join Bulb, other providers/suppliers/companies will either have to do the same or go to the wall.

 

It cost £2.8 billion to prop up Bulb. I read that this was enough to have bought the 5 big energy providers at current market prices. It didn't sound right to me tbh but it was one of the unions or something that said it.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

2 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

It cost £2.8 billion to prop up Bulb. I read that this was enough to have bought the 5 big energy providers at current market prices. It didn't sound right to me tbh but it was one of the unions or something that said it.

 

I've heard that figure before, but I don't believe it, just sounds way way too low.

[Unknown user]

Just now, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

I've heard that figure before, but I don't believe it, just sounds way way too low.

Same

[Jambo-Jimbo]

10 minutes ago, Boab said:

Yea, that's the crux of it. People have to use leccy etc but don't have to go out. Businesses will suffer badly this winter. If business gets on the gov's case now, it will help surely.

 

You would have thought so.

 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

Now this is scary.

 

Sky News carried out a survey and found that 12% of those asked thought energy bills were going to fall this winter        

Only 8% of people asked thought that bills would rise by £1500 which is close to what is being predicted.

https://news.sky.com/story/cost-of-living-crisis-households-underestimating-how-much-energy-bills-will-rise-research-shows-12674146

[doctor jambo]

My son is Away to uni this sept,

Glad he is halls, can you imagine what the hike in bills will do to students living on loans that will no longer cover their gas and leccy?

[Boab]

17 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

Now this is scary.

 

Sky News carried out a survey and found that 12% of those asked thought energy bills were going to fall this winter        

Only 8% of people asked thought that bills would rise by £1500 which is close to what is being predicted.

https://news.sky.com/story/cost-of-living-crisis-households-underestimating-how-much-energy-bills-will-rise-research-shows-12674146

Quite !

Explains why we have the government we have. It's certainly not due to critical thinking...or thinking at all !

[The Mighty Thor]

28 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

Now this is scary.

 

Sky News carried out a survey and found that 12% of those asked thought energy bills were going to fall this winter        

Only 8% of people asked thought that bills would rise by £1500 which is close to what is being predicted.

https://news.sky.com/story/cost-of-living-crisis-households-underestimating-how-much-energy-bills-will-rise-research-shows-12674146

That is wholly unsurpsing.

 

You've got to remember that the vast majority of the souls that live in the UK are both unaware of world and UK events and swallow whole the utter shite fed to them by the likes of Murdoch & Rothermere.

 

They voted for Brexit. They voted for Johnson. They think Johnson was hounded out by the media and so on and so on. 

 

I'd actually say 12% was a low ball number.

[The Mighty Thor]

 

[Pans Jambo]

2 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

 

UK

Absolute Barstewards!!!

[joondalupjambo]

3 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

No wasn’t joking I was wondering how they’ll pay their bills if heating on all day in a big pub. If this winter is cold (and wouldn’t that just be fecking typical) their bills will be telephone numbers. 

Starbucks aside I don’t see the smaller pubs or coffee shops staying open if people go and and basically sit with an empty glass or cup all day. 

Due to Covid and the fallout from that plus,  schhh do not mention it but Brexit as well lots of small businesses have already reduced their opening hours or are working reduced hours over a week.  No staff.  Add into that the increased cost of utilities then either many more will reduce their opening times or some will probably just close.  Add into that the huge number of households going into fuel poverty status.

 

I am now more and more thinking that the Government cannot let that happen, it is just not feasible to run an economy that way.  My radar is thinking that the Tories will be forced into to doing something radical.  Not because the politicians want to, they are all just sound bites.  The policy makers will present them with options that partly resolve this. 

 

My guess is, even though it is a Labour policy I think the Tories will freeze the price cap at a reasonable level.  Call me hopeful but the risk of doing a series of little, meaningless things will just not work.  And after all votes will be at stake here and the thought of losing the next GE will be looming over all the Tory MP's.

 

Then they can say look what we did for you.  Furlough during Covid and cut price utilities.  Vote winning.

 

 

 

 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

1 hour ago, The Mighty Thor said:

 

 

Is that not just for Spain & Portugal who have a special agreement to cap their gas prices at €40 per megawatt hour.

https://www.euractiv.com/section/energy-environment/news/eu-commission-approves-spanish-portuguese-plan-to-cap-gas-prices/

[Jambo-Jimbo]

Here is an interesting article about how other European countries are tackling rising energy prices.

https://www.ft.com/content/c97ae23f-f30e-45ac-b322-cfb58a3b918a

 

[Weakened Offender]

3 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said:

That is wholly unsurpsing.

 

You've got to remember that the vast majority of the souls that live in the UK are both unaware of world and UK events and swallow whole the utter shite fed to them by the likes of Murdoch & Rothermere.

 

They voted for Brexit. They voted for Johnson. They think Johnson was hounded out by the media and so on and so on. 

 

I'd actually say 12% was a low ball number.

 

No way it's as low as 12%.

[fabienleclerq]

2 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said:

 

 

AFAIK the EU as a block doesn't have a cap.

And as far as I can find it isn't a per mega watt hour cap in the UK, something to do with an average usage cap which I'm unsure how it's calculated. 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

37 minutes ago, fabienleclerq said:

 

AFAIK the EU as a block doesn't have a cap.

And as far as I can find it isn't a per mega watt hour cap in the UK, something to do with an average usage cap which I'm unsure how it's calculated. 

 

I couldn't find anything about an EU wide cap either, I did find something about Spain & Portugal being allowed to impose one though, but that was due to exceptional circumstances unique to the Iberian Peninsula.

The post on twitter looks to me to either be from someone who has misunderstood what they have heard/read or understands it only too well and has posted misleading information to suit a particular agenda.

[Dazo]

1 hour ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

I couldn't find anything about an EU wide cap either, I did find something about Spain & Portugal being allowed to impose one though, but that was due to exceptional circumstances unique to the Iberian Peninsula.

The post on twitter looks to me to either be from someone who has misunderstood what they have heard/read or understands it only too well and has posted misleading information to suit a particular agenda.

Something made up to make the UK look bad ? No way. 😂

[ri Alban]

1 hour ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

I couldn't find anything about an EU wide cap either, I did find something about Spain & Portugal being allowed to impose one though, but that was due to exceptional circumstances unique to the Iberian Peninsula.

The post on twitter looks to me to either be from someone who has misunderstood what they have heard/read or understands it only too well and has posted misleading information to suit a particular agenda.

I'm sure that's it. JJ has spoken.

 

3 minutes ago, Dazo said:

Something made up to make the UK look bad ? No way. 😂

Something doesn't need to made up for that to happen. It's a hole full of wee sheep. Imagine voting for Tory filth. I'd top masel, if it even crossed my mind.

Edited August 16, 2022 by ri Alban

[The Mighty Thor]

4 hours ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Is that not just for Spain & Portugal who have a special agreement to cap their gas prices at €40 per megawatt hour.

https://www.euractiv.com/section/energy-environment/news/eu-commission-approves-spanish-portuguese-plan-to-cap-gas-prices/

Hands up. I didn't check the account. It's not Ken Clarke former Tory MP.

 

I've made a right royal of it.

 

 

Apologies to all. I'll check the sources in future. 

[The Mighty Thor]

13 minutes ago, Dazo said:

Something made up to make the UK look bad ? No way. 😂

With such plentiful source material there's seldom a need fir nade up stuff. 

 

I've had a shocker.