Souttar signs pre-contract with Rangers (Super Thread)

[luckydug]

1 minute ago, john thomas said:

I , as already stated, disagree .

Yes Keevins has more access to the media than most Hearts fans !

Yes fans express what they think at games !

None of the above points are exactly revelations

Surely the job of journalists , in this context, is to express a more reasoned view ?

Far from a Keevins fan but his piece is relevant and far from being an assassination job on Hearts

 

Thing is if Soutar had used the PC agreement against either of the OF the way he did with Hearts he would have got a similar or worse reaction from their fans. 

Keevins would have said not a word. 

Your devil's advocate act is a bit tiresome now. 😴

[The White Cockade]

7 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Sanderson iirc. 

Yeah used to listen on the supporters bus back from away games

Are you accusing me of mendacity caller? 😂

[niblick1874]

Just now, john thomas said:

The rules are wrong but nothing to do with what I , or the other poster , were talking about

 

Where did I say you were talking about it. I said you should be talking about it and not going after Hearts supporters for feeling rightfully aggrieved. The getting at Hearts supporters for this is wrong. Those that are doing so are not coming across well. Go find another feel good bandwagon to jump on.  

[john thomas]

5 minutes ago, luckydug said:

Thing is if Soutar had used the PC agreement against either of the OF the way he did with Hearts he would have got a similar or worse reaction from their fans. 

Keevins would have said not a word. 

Your devil's advocate act is a bit tiresome now. 😴

Not sure what the opposite of devils advocate is but you seem to be that person . Earlier on in this thread you labelled half a dozen posters as 'contrary' because they disagreed with you . I don't give fiddlers **** about what would happen if the OF did something .

Think that's called whitaboutery

[soonbe110]

37 minutes ago, Rudy T said:

If the club thinks Souttar is a vital component in securing 3rd and the reward that should bring then surely our valuation is in line with that. Which must run into the millions, there’s not the slightest chance those charlatans from Govan are paying that for him.

Agreed though it possibly depends on how much an experienced replacement will cost us. Most likely a loan fee. 

[john thomas]

15 minutes ago, The White Cockade said:

Yeah used to listen on the supporters bus back from away games

Are you accusing me of mendacity caller? 😂

My favourite 'were you at the game caller ' when , clearly ,  the guy was so pished he had been in boozer all day 

[Boab]

16 minutes ago, The White Cockade said:

Yeah used to listen on the supporters bus back from away games

Are you accusing me of mendacity caller? 😂

 

”Yes, I'm afraid I am, James, and even verbosity ! “

😂

[Byyy The Light]

1 hour ago, john thomas said:

Sorry its you who has missed the point , spectacularly .

The article , despite what most of us think of Keevins , puts forward a reasonable argument against some fans behaviour

I’ve really not. He’s having a dig at Hearts fans for not being rational and not seeing the whole thing in a pragmatic transactional way. I’m saying that’s not how it works. Fans take the actions of players personally. 

 

You agree with him, fair enough. I don’t, I think Souttar owed the club something and could’ve managed the whole situation better. Leaving on a free to go to Rangers feels like a slap in the face.

 

I think we can get by without him so I want him gone now.

 

 

[Heartsofgold]

1 hour ago, john thomas said:

Sorry its you who has missed the point , spectacularly .

The article , despite what most of us think of Keevins , puts forward a reasonable argument against some fans behaviour

And he completely misses the point that football is NOT like a normal business.  Players are its assets and we have lost, arguably or most valuable assets, for nothing as things stand at this time.

 

Football has, and hopefully always will be, a totally partisan sport/business/occupation.  

 

As others have already stated here, Keevins is a torn faced wank splat who only writes negative things about other clubs.  The behaviour of the arse cheeks, both clubs and fans and especially the green one, is never called out by him and his ilk.

[davemclaren]

14 minutes ago, Byyy The Light said:

I’ve really not. He’s having a dig at Hearts fans for not being rational and not seeing the whole thing in a pragmatic transactional way. I’m saying that’s not how it works. Fans take the actions of players personally. 

 

You agree with him, fair enough. I don’t, I think Souttar owed the club something and could’ve managed the whole situation better. Leaving on a free to go to Rangers feels like a slap in the face.

 

I think we can get by without him so I want him gone now.

 

 

Football supporters generally lose all their rational thought when it comes to their club. Otherwise, we would have given up supporting them years ago. 

[Byyy The Light]

4 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Football supporters generally lose all their rational thought when it comes to their club. Otherwise, we would have given up supporting them years ago. 

Exactly Dave 👍🏼

[niblick1874]

2 minutes ago, Byyy The Light said:

I’ve really not. He’s having a dig at Hearts fans for not being rational and not seeing the whole thing in a pragmatic transactional way. I’m saying that’s not how it works. Fans take the actions of players personally. 

 

You agree with him, fair enough. I don’t, I think Souttar owed the club something and could’ve managed the whole situation better. Leaving on a free to go to Rangers feels like a slap in the face.

 

I think we can get by without him so I want him gone now.

 

 

 

Pragmatic you say. This place is full of it from a few posters. Pragmatism will rot the good out of everything. 

 

 

2 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Football supporters generally lose all their rational thought when it comes to their club. Otherwise, we would have given up supporting them years ago. 

 

Are you saying that is the case with this. The Hearts support have lost all their rational.    

[colinmaroon]

20 minutes ago, niblick1874 said:

 

Pragmatic you say. This place is full of it from a few posters. Pragmatism will rot the good out of everything. 

 

 

 

Are you saying that is the case with this. The Hearts support have lost all their rationale.    

 

[Riccarton3]

1 hour ago, john thomas said:

My favourite 'were you at the game caller ' when , clearly ,  the guy was so pished he had been in boozer all day 

Else fans had to gave a damn good reason for not being  at the game e.g funeral with time stated

[niblick1874]

2 minutes ago, colinmaroon said:

 

 

?

[john thomas]

9 minutes ago, Riccarton3 said:

Else fans had to gave a damn good reason for not being  at the game e.g funeral with time stated

Was , at the time , hugely entertaining . Perhaps the model is outdated now ?

[davemclaren]

39 minutes ago, niblick1874 said:

 

Pragmatic you say. This place is full of it from a few posters. Pragmatism will rot the good out of everything. 

 

 

 

Are you saying that is the case with this. The Hearts support have lost all their rational.    

Some probably have lost all and most have lost some to a varying degree. 😄

 

We expect footballers ( employees ) to have an emotional attachment to the club like we have. For most players that just isn’t the case. 
 

Being a fatalistic pragmatic can help in these circumstances. 

[Rudi cant fail]

 

Souttar’s PA at it again. 

[niblick1874]

48 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

    1 Some probably have lost all and most have to a varying degree. 😄

 

   2 We expect footballers ( employees ) to have an emotional attachment to the club like we have. For most players that just isn’t the case. 
 

   3 Being a fatalistic pragmatic can help in these circumstances. 

 

1 How very condescending of you. Just how lost it are the Hearts support? Varying degrees? I take it you are one that has not lost all because you can be fatalistically pragmatic about it.  

 

2 What? It has nothing to do with thinking he should have an emotional attachment and everything to do with right and wrong. Nothing more.   

 

3 Not when it comes to standing up for yourself. Being pragmatic will mean not standing up for yourself and is what you are pushing with that. I know what I call that and so do you. It starts with a c and ends with oward. Stop pushing that stuff on here to Hearts supporters. 

 

Edited January 23, 2022 by niblick1874

[Bazzas right boot]

I'd play him v Celtic. 

 

[davemclaren]

7 minutes ago, niblick1874 said:

 

1 How very condescending of you. Just how lost it are the Hearts support? Varying degrees? I take it you are one that has not lost all because you can be fatalistically pragmatic about it.  

 

2 What? It has nothing to do with thinking he should have an emotional attachment and everything to do with right and wrong. Nothing more.   

 

3 Not when it comes to standing up for yourself. Being pragmatic will mean not standing up for yourself and is what you are pushing with that. I know what I call that and so do you. It starts with a c and ends with oward. Stop pushing that stuff on here to Hearts supporters. 

 

1. I include myself on the varying degree group. 
 

2. Right and wrong are very subjective especially when deciding your career options. 
 

3. I am a Hearts supporter, with an opinion that is different from yours. To be fair,  I think you push far more ‘stuff’ on here than me. 🥸

[niblick1874]

1 minute ago, davemclaren said:

1. I include myself on the varying degree group. 
 

2. Right and wrong are very subjective especially when deciding your career options. 
 

3. I am a Hearts supporter, with an opinion that is different from yours. To be fair,  I think you push far more ‘stuff’ on here than me. 🥸

 

Being pragmatic has nothing to do with opinions. It is a way of being. A cowardly way of being. You are pushing that on Hearts supporters. It is so far and away not the way to be. stop pushing it on here.  

[GinRummy]

1 minute ago, niblick1874 said:

 

Being pragmatic has nothing to do with opinions. It is a way of being. A cowardly way of being. You are pushing that on Hearts supporters. It is so far and away not the way to be. stop pushing it on here.  

That’s not what the word pragmatic means. 

[davemclaren]

Just now, niblick1874 said:

 

Being pragmatic has nothing to do with opinions. It is a way of being. A cowardly way of being. You are pushing that on Hearts supporters. It is so far and away not the way to be. stop pushing it on here.  

Like you, I’ll state my views and opiinons on here. 💋

 

[niblick1874]

4 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

That’s not what the word pragmatic means. 

 

That is what it ends up as. 

[john thomas]

30 minutes ago, niblick1874 said:

 

1 How very condescending of you. Just how lost it are the Hearts support? Varying degrees? I take it you are one that has not lost all because you can be fatalistically pragmatic about it.  

 

2 What? It has nothing to do with thinking he should have an emotional attachment and everything to do with right and wrong. Nothing more.   

 

3 Not when it comes to standing up for yourself. Being pragmatic will mean not standing up for yourself and is what you are pushing with that. I know what I call that and so do you. It starts with a c and ends with oward. Stop pushing that stuff on here to Hearts supporters. 

 

Fekk me ! Even more concerning you actually edited that post .

 

'starts with c and ends with oward' 

 

[niblick1874]

5 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Like you, I’ll state my views and opiinons on here. 💋

 

 

Yep.  

[niblick1874]

1 minute ago, john thomas said:

Fekk me ! Even more concerning you actually edited that post .

 

'starts with c and ends with oward' 

 

 

What is concerning is that that is what you took from my post and then posted it. 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

3 hours ago, Lone Striker said:

It will be interesting to see if  Robbie will play JS against Celtic - although that possibility may be a bargaining chip we have to negotiate a better fee from Sevco.    I can't see any point in Hearts NOT  playing him (assuming he's fit) if Sevco are not showing any willingness to negotiate a more acceptable  transfer fee to take him now.

 

Despite what Robbie says though, I think the 2 clubs will reach an "undisclosed"  compromise on the transfer fee.  We may need the JS fee to bring in a good quality striker (or even 2)

 

 

 

Neilson's playing a blinder here. By playing Souttar last week he called Rangers bluff. By not cup-tying Souttar he's increased our chances of getting a decent fee. By dropping in a sly mention of "achilles" relating to the injury he's sowed some doubt in Rangers minds, maybe making them more keen to get him in the hands of their medical people sooner and not wanting to risk further injury. He's also shown fans, opponents and the team that we have players who can fill in.

[Factuer Moi]

Is that you Andy, i cannae seem to get the words oot...

 

Oh wrong show

[Tynecastle Valhalla]

It annoys me the press (west coast in particular) will openly come out and criticise us - but are just scared to say anything against the two big uglies !

[Francis Albert]

If Hearts "screwed over" a club in the same way Rangers have done us, what would be the reaction of most Hearts fans including many of those whose knicker elastic has been snapping for close to a century of pages?

Lets say, not entirely at random, the club concerned was Dundee?

[GinRummy]

7 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

If Hearts "screwed over" a club in the same way Rangers have done us, what would be the reaction of most Hearts fans including many of those whose knicker elastic has been snapping for close to a century of pages?

Lets say, not entirely at random, the club concerned was Dundee?

I don’t get your point. Are you saying Hearts fans are ok with Hearts pinching players from smaller clubs but not when Rangers have done it to us? If that’s the case then aye, obviously. 

[Des Lynam]

6 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

If Hearts "screwed over" a club in the same way Rangers have done us, what would be the reaction of most Hearts fans including many of those whose knicker elastic has been snapping for close to a century of pages?

Lets say, not entirely at random, the club concerned was Dundee?

We’d say tough titty! But that’s how it works. It wasn’t that long ago Rangers fans were having a meltdown after Gerrard left for Villa. Fans are passionate and care about the club. Those mentioning pant wetting and knicker elastic snapping are just irritating obtuse arseholes. 😃

[niblick1874]

11 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

If Hearts "screwed over" a club in the same way Rangers have done us, what would be the reaction of most Hearts fans including many of those whose knicker elastic has been snapping for close to a century of pages?

Lets say, not entirely at random, the club concerned was Dundee?

 

If we "screwed" over a club this way I want to know about it. Did we? Dundee? What? Any more of that and I will be taking your little red wagon away, for good. Stop it. Now. 

[Marooned In Oz]

2 minutes ago, Des Lynam said:

We’d say tough titty! But that’s how it works. It wasn’t that long ago Rangers fans were having a meltdown after Gerrard left for Villa. Fans are passionate and care about the club. Those mentioning pant wetting and knicker elastic snapping are just irritating obtuse arseholes. 😃

Ahh yes.  I see you that you know your football fans well.  Gooooood one.

[BackOfTheNet]

It’s not about whether teams can sign players on pre-contracts. If Souttar had signed for a club down south then we’d all be hoping he would stay, if until the end of the season if anything. But he signed for a rival, joint second to only Hibs in our game. And to do so for no money (still potentially money at this point, but now our negotiating power is gone). So it’s not the signing of a pre-contract, it’s to who, how it was done and how it affects us as a club.

 

Edit: And for me personally it’s also about the deal only further increasing the disparity between the two Glasgow teams and the rest of us. So there’s a whole other bigger picture taken into consideration.

Edited January 23, 2022 by BackOfTheNet

[Francis Albert]

4 minutes ago, BackOfTheNet said:

It’s not about whether teams can sign players on pre-contracts. If Souttar had signed for a club down south then we’d all be hoping he would stay, if until the end of the season if anything. But he signed for a rival, joint second to only Hibs in our game. And to do so for no money (still potentially money at this point, but now our negotiating power is gone). So it’s not the signing of a pre-contract, it’s to who, how it was done and how it affects us as a club.

 

Edit: And for me personally it’s also about the deal only further increasing the disparity between the two Glasgow teams and the rest of us. So there’s a whole other bigger picture taken into consideration.

In my hypothetical example Dundee would be a rival. Of course we would react differently because we are Hearts fans and football fans. But 100 pages of often  moral outrage just seems to me a tad OTT.

[Captain Lithuania]

1 hour ago, Rudi cant fail said:

 

Souttar’s PA at it again. 

I wish he’d keep his ****ing nose out of this. 

[GinRummy]

6 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

In my hypothetical example Dundee would be a rival. Of course we would react differently because we are Hearts fans and football fans. But 100 pages of often  moral outrage just seems to me a tad OTT.

Tbf, a lot of the space is taken up by Hearts fans, weirdly busting a gut to see the whole thing from Souttar’s point of view. Quite why, I have absolutely no idea. 

[BackOfTheNet]

6 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

In my hypothetical example Dundee would be a rival. Of course we would react differently because we are Hearts fans and football fans. But 100 pages of often  moral outrage just seems to me a tad OTT.

Dundee are not on a rival anywhere near the same level though. And even hypothetically if a player was to sign for the likes of Dundee, they would be a player we wouldn’t care about going there. Like when Craig Wighton signed a pre-contract with Dunfermline. No one cared. Now, if we had a player with a similar status to Souttar in the squad who signed for someone like Dundee as they just got some sugar daddy owners in or something, then I imagine whatever player it was would be getting just as much pelters.

[Factuer Moi]

6 minutes ago, Captain Lithuania said:

I wish he’d keep his ****ing nose out of this. 

I wish i had kept my eyes out of it, one good thing about the link. The Snake Charmer doesn't actually speak, so cannae hear the shedders words.

[Francis Albert]

1 minute ago, BackOfTheNet said:

Dundee are not on a rival anywhere near the same level though. And even hypothetically if a player was to sign for the likes of Dundee, they would be a player we wouldn’t care about going there. Like when Craig Wighton signed a pre-contract with Dunfermline. No one cared. Now, if we had a player with a similar status to Souttar in the squad who signed for someone like Dundee as they just got some sugar daddy owners in or something, then I imagine whatever player it was would be getting just as much pelters.

I wasn't talking about anyone signing for Dundee. I was talking about us signing a player from Dundee.

[busbyfth]

Whether we as a club do/dont want to play Soapy versus the unwashed might well not be relevant, as whats more to the point is that there is every chance that Rangers has said to our heid yins that they DIDNT want to risk JS against Talbot but that they DO want him to play against Celtic. They could well have offered £X already but inserted as a clause - to have JS play this week so to give a better chance of Celtic dropping points which will suit Rangers....then to take him off our hands on Friday. (Rangers are exceptionally devious as they have proven against us with our players over the years - so hardly a surprise !)

[BackOfTheNet]

Just now, Francis Albert said:

I wasn't talking about anyone signing for Dundee. I was talking about us signing a player from Dundee.

I don’t think Dundee see us as a rival. But it would depend how it was done whether their fans would be unhappy or if our fans were unhappy with the circumstances. They would be annoyed to lose a player to a team in the same league, but if it’s not Dundee United, Rangers or Celtic I think they accept it in a way. Just like they’ll expect Partick fans to accept Rudden signing a pre-contract with them.

[jr ewing]

2 minutes ago, busbyfth said:

Whether we as a club do/dont want to play Soapy versus the unwashed might well not be relevant, as whats more to the point is that there is every chance that Rangers has said to our heid yins that they DIDNT want to risk JS against Talbot but that they DO want him to play against Celtic. They could well have offered £X already but inserted as a clause - to have JS play this week so to give a better chance of Celtic dropping points which will suit Rangers....then to take him off our hands on Friday. (Rangers are exceptionally devious as they have proven against us with our players over the years - so hardly a surprise !)

Complicated and unprecedented. 

[BackOfTheNet]

3 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

I wasn't talking about anyone signing for Dundee. I was talking about us signing a player from Dundee.

For example like when Scott Severin signed a pre-contract with Aberdeen. He was one of our better players at the time, but although some weren’t happy about it, it was Aberdeen and Severin made it pretty clear he’d be leaving. 

[Spellczech]

49 minutes ago, wallace_mercer said:

It annoys me the press (west coast in particular) will openly come out and criticise us - but are just scared to say anything against the two big uglies !

We are meant to act like a proper feeder club and give the OF our players for little outlay, doff our caps with sufficient deference and send them over to Glasgow with our best wishes...After all, Souttar is a Rangers man now.

[colinmaroon]

2 hours ago, niblick1874 said:

 

?

"e".

[niblick1874]

Just now, colinmaroon said:

"e".

 

I get that. Why?