Pans Jambo Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 49 minutes ago, Factuer Moi said: Because in ethics he is our player and also in both parties Sporting interests not to play him against his future club, due to terms agreements in the Pre Contract. Not stating that it is in there , i am saying it should be. Ive read yoir post 3 times. Its not clear to me what youre saying. Im reading that you think there should be a clause in his pre-contract with another club that he should not play against them whilst hes a Hearts player. Is that correct or no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Factuer Moi Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 (edited) 1 minute ago, Pans Jambo said: Ive read yoir post 3 times. Its not clear to me what youre saying. Im reading that you think there should be a clause in his pre-contract with another club that he should not play against them whilst hes a Hearts player. Is that correct or no? As i already said, i was mixed up with two scenarios. Both wrong. Edited January 17, 2022 by Factuer Moi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pans Jambo Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 1 minute ago, Factuer Moi said: As i already said, i was mixed up with two scenarios. Both wrong. OK👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Sanchez Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 It's not Soapy anymore. It shall forever be Splinter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samuel Camazzola Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 30 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said: They can’t pull the plug, it’s a legally binding contract. I imagine clubs will have scrutinised all the terms more closely in recent years. Wasn't it Richard Brittain who managed to back out of joining St Johnstone after agreeing a pre contract with them? I think he ended up remaining at Ross County. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taffin Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 I find it hard to really care that much about this and I'm amazed at how much of a rage some people have over it. Employee moves on in what he seems to be best for him. Hardly earth shattering. We'll replace him and be fine 👍 That said he shouldn't play or train with the first team in the interim imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taffin Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 (edited) 1 minute ago, Samuel Camazzola said: I imagine clubs will have scrutinised all the terms more closely in recent years. Wasn't it Richard Brittain who managed to back out of joining St Johnstone after agreeing a pre contract with them? I think he ended up remaining at Ross County. I'd imagine it depends on what's been agreed. I'd be shocked if Souttar picks up another bad injury this season that Rangers won't be able to walk away. Edited January 17, 2022 by Taffin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juho_Makela_Goal_Machine Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 56 minutes ago, Factuer Moi said: I am positive that in the Pre contract it can be stipulated by Rangers not play him against them then. wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 19 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said: He would be due his whole contract which could be up to £3m, can’t see them doing that can you? How could you know that? None of us know which specific terms are included in the pre-contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lost in space Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 7 minutes ago, Rick Sanchez said: It's not Soapy anymore. It shall forever be Splinter. Shouldn't he now be called "SOAPLESS"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fozzyonthefence Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 37 minutes ago, briever said: FFS man, players dont negotiate sell on clauses - where on earth is this nonsense coming from? Calum Paterson certainly did. No idea if there are other examples. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ToqueJambo Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 If Soapy stays and plays... we've had loan players before and have them now, who we know are partly trying to play themselves into their parent club's thoughts. Some come across as committed and some don't seem to be putting the effort in. Folk just need to accept that if Souttar stays and is selected, he's effectively a loan player and he'll be picked or not picked based on his performances like any player, loan or otherwise. He's also still our player and so will be much more committed to his team-mates than a loan player who just pitched up. Can't imagine anyone who is pals with Steven Naismith getting away with shirking challenges and giving less than 100%. Think the best approach is to give him a wee boo in his first game then focus on the rest of the seasons. Otherwise we're just helping Rangers get what they want, which is to unsettle and disrupt a rival team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 43 minutes ago, Hearts007 said: yep sure it got us £75k if i remember? Could well be, not as much as we hoped but it all adds in to the pot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Factuer Moi Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 6 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said: If Soapy stays and plays... we've had loan players before and have them now, who we know are partly trying to play themselves into their parent club's thoughts. Some come across as committed and some don't seem to be putting the effort in. Folk just need to accept that if Souttar stays and is selected, he's effectively a loan player and he'll be picked or not picked based on his performances like any player, loan or otherwise. He's also still our player and so will be much more committed to his team-mates than a loan player who just pitched up. Can't imagine anyone who is pals with Steven Naismith getting away with shirking challenges and giving less than 100%. Think the best approach is to give him a wee boo in his first game then focus on the rest of the seasons. Otherwise we're just helping Rangers get what they want, which is to unsettle and disrupt a rival team. which is to unsettle and disrupt a rival team. In my opinion this is what is going on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 14 minutes ago, lost in space said: Shouldn't he now be called "SOAPLESS"? Hopeless Soapless from June 😆 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 40 minutes ago, briever said: That's the only way we would get a sell on clause - if we sell him to the huns. Absolutely Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Japan Jambo Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 1 hour ago, alanbauld said: Alex McLeish has suggested Rangers could miss out on millions of pounds by keeping Connor Goldson at Ibrox this month. The former Gers boss, speaking exclusively to Football Insider, admitted he does not think the 29-year-old will pen a new deal even if the Light Blues win the Premiership and qualify for the Champions League. As reported by the Daily Record last week (Friday, 31 December), Rangers are set to renew contract talks with Goldson as he heads into the finals six months of his current deal. The Gers will reportedly not sanction a transfer this month, even if it means losing him on a free in the summer. They must have been eyeing Souttar for months, they are only signing him as a just in case, he wont get a game if Goldson stays. Guessing they really want to sell Goldson for millions and have a replacement (Souttar) ready so are not as relaxed about waiting for summer and getting him for nothing as they appear. It's all a poker game at this stage. Think soapy dodger may well get a run out tomorrow (or at least a seat on the bench) as I think on balance it strengthens our hand - the reaction of course could undermine this markedly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 24 minutes ago, Samuel Camazzola said: I imagine clubs will have scrutinised all the terms more closely in recent years. Wasn't it Richard Brittain who managed to back out of joining St Johnstone after agreeing a pre contract with them? I think he ended up remaining at Ross County. For the start of the 2013-14, Brittain agreed to join St Johnstone on a two-year deal after signing a pre-contract with the club on 9 January 2013.1191 Brittain was previously criticised by St Johnstone Manager Steve Lomas earlier in the 2012-13 season, calling him a "cheat". [201 He then changed his mind and said he wanted to stay at Ross County, (21 who then registered him as their player preventing St Johnstone from doing so. When Ross County and St Johnstone played on 21 April 2013, Brittain received jeers from St Johnstone fans, though he received praise from Ross County fans. During the match, Brittain scored two penalties in a 2-2 draw. After the match, Manager Adams praised Britain's performance in the match,[22] On 27 June 2013 St Johnstone announced they had reached agreement with Ross County to transfer Brittain back to them for a fee of £40,000. This remains the highest sum St.Johnstone have received for a player that did not actually play for them. Ross County though, have denied any transfer fee was paid, they say a donation was made to St Johnstone's community programme.(23] At the start of the 2013-14 season Rrittain @en.m.wikipedia.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juho_Makela_Goal_Machine Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 15 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said: Calum Paterson certainly did. No idea if there are other examples. Sam Nicholson did also, but got traded for another player so it amounted to nothing. It's a great gesture but it is 100% not the norm, it is effectively money coming straight out the players pocket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Striker Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 54 minutes ago, briever said: FFS man, players dont negotiate sell on clauses - where on earth is this nonsense coming from? Paterson did it apparently after refusing to sign a new contract with us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 24 minutes ago, pablo said: How could you know that? None of us know which specific terms are included in the pre-contract. Because it’s the same for every pre contract, it’s a legally binding document, it doesn’t have clauses etc. You think his agents would sign that even if they could, considering his record? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 28 minutes ago, Taffin said: I'd imagine it depends on what's been agreed. I'd be shocked if Souttar picks up another bad injury this season that Rangers won't be able to walk away. The agreement is to sign him in the summer, neither side can back out if he’s injured. He would just sue them for what his contract is worth, and win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riccarton3 Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 Jeezo, I understand folk want as good a deal for Hearts as possible. But the obsession with figures on here. I can only assume fans of compare the market.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taffin Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 Just now, Pasquale for King said: The agreement is to sign him in the summer, neither side can back out if he’s injured. He would just sue them for what his contract is worth, and win. Fair enough, I don't know the ins and outs of their agreement but you evidently do given the above and the £3m figure so I'll defer to that 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biffa Bacon Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 2 hours ago, Lone Striker said: Well yes...... but balance that against the fact that they would be getting him for nothing now. Sell JS for £3m in a couple of years, and they still pocket £2.7m if JS has insisted on a 10% sell-on clause for us. No need to reduce his wages. Folk on here are in a rage, calling him a rat. Maybe - just maybe - he's got a conscience, and has done a decent thing for the club who stood by him through his injuries ? There are not many business situations where someone would be happy giving away £300k if they didn't have to. I would file that scenario in the "no danger" bucket. Whether Hearts could slide such a clause into an early release contract, may be part of a package, but not for nothing, it could be less cash, depends how desperate sevco are to get JS in January rather than end of season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruyff Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 Just get him to f#ck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 2 minutes ago, Taffin said: Fair enough, I don't know the ins and outs of their agreement but you evidently do given the above and the £3m figure so I'll defer to that 👍 Would be funny if happened though 😆 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hearts007 Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 1 minute ago, Cruyff said: Just get him to f#ck. This Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kila Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 Craig Gordon's thoughts from https://news.stv.tv/sport/gordon-backs-souttar-over-move-from-hearts-to-rangers “John has been absolutely fantastic since he came back from his injury and I don’t think there is anybody in this squad who worked as hard as he has to get back from that,” the Hearts captain said. “You have to respect how well he has done in such a short space of time from looking like he might never play football again to being one of our best players and subject of a move. “From that point of view it is a fantastic achievement for him, for our medical staff, our sports science, to get him back from those injuries. “As team-mates, we know he has given absolutely 100 per cent every single day. “It is a very special achievement to come back from the injuries has had. It is hard, it doesn’t happen very often.” “He will be a miss but that’s football and it is not the first time it has ever happened,” he said. “We will get on with it and the club will still be here after any player, manager, owner. “I understand that the fans won’t be happy. I’m disappointed. I would love to see him stay for another few years but these things happen, that’s his decision. “But the only way he got himself into the position to make that decision was performing really well with Hearts and we have to remember he has really turned it around.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Factuer Moi Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bawheed Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 1 hour ago, Led Tasso said: It's not worth sitting a player the whole rest of the season in a fit of pique but he should definitely be out of the squad tomorrow, just to let tempers cool a bit. As I said before, start him in Auckinleck. It cup ties him and it gives him a chance to show something on the pitch outside of the cauldron of Tynecastle. On another note, those who insist Pressley kissed the badge also probably insist that Levein passed notes to the sidelines and that Jamie Walker wore a Rangers scarf to Ibrox. Oh, and maybe that Sinbad made a movie called Shazaam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ToqueJambo Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 4 minutes ago, Factuer Moi said: Can't imagine Craig letting Souttar off with sub-standard performances if he stays and plays. He'll be keeping a close eye on him. Still think Rangers will play this out as long as they can but will stump up a fee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyNic Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 2 hours ago, ramrod said: He won't, trust me Spill the beans then if you're hinting that you're ITK... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanbauld Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 1 hour ago, Pasquale for King said: Not many Rangers fans I’ve discussed this with see him as a replacement for Goldson, more a squad player, as they realise they will need far better CBs than Souttar to play in the CL. Your The Rangers pals will be very pleased with you for spreading their spiel, the game is not just played on the pitch you know. They are the ones who have the big money player getting away for nothing in the summer if they don't sell him now. They need the money and they also need the money for top spot in Europe. Soutter is available, knows the Scottish game inside out and should be enough to get them over the line. What other centre back is available at the moment who would go to The Rangers and not need time to settle in ? They need him and only the not too aware cant see that. Call their bluff Hearts, that's all it is. Tic Tock the Rangers ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Factuer Moi Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 15 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said: Can't imagine Craig letting Souttar off with sub-standard performances if he stays and plays. He'll be keeping a close eye on him. Still think Rangers will play this out as long as they can but will stump up a fee. Or Souttar is sold tomorrow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 (edited) 14 minutes ago, alanbauld said: Your The Rangers pals will be very pleased with you for spreading their spiel, the game is not just played on the pitch you know. They are the ones who have the big money player getting away for nothing in the summer if they don't sell him now. They need the money and they also need the money for top spot in Europe. Soutter is available, knows the Scottish game inside out and should be enough to get them over the line. What other centre back is available at the moment who would go to The Rangers and not need time to settle in ? They need him and only the not too aware cant see that. Call their bluff Hearts, that's all it is. Tic Tock the Rangers ! I don’t have any Rangers pals, or Celtic or Hibs for that matter. The Huns I was arguing with on social media reckon they don’t need him now, they don’t , they reckoned he’s not good enough to play in the CL, he’s not. Nobody has put a bid in for Goldson who will be heading to the Championship I reckon as he’s no world beater either. Having won a watch for Paterson and with CL money coming unfortunately their money problems aren’t as serious just now. Edited January 17, 2022 by Pasquale for King Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hearts1975 Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 35 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said: If Soapy stays and plays... we've had loan players before and have them now, who we know are partly trying to play themselves into their parent club's thoughts. Some come across as committed and some don't seem to be putting the effort in. Folk just need to accept that if Souttar stays and is selected, he's effectively a loan player and he'll be picked or not picked based on his performances like any player, loan or otherwise. He's also still our player and so will be much more committed to his team-mates than a loan player who just pitched up. Can't imagine anyone who is pals with Steven Naismith getting away with shirking challenges and giving less than 100%. Think the best approach is to give him a wee boo in his first game then focus on the rest of the seasons. Otherwise we're just helping Rangers get what they want, which is to unsettle and disrupt a rival team. Bang on the money I am seething as much as anyone else and I personally think this move smacks of a real lack of ambition on Souttar’s part, as well as he could have still got his move, but in a way that helped us get a fee for him, and due to us looking after the player. He has looked out for himself only and you could argue that it’s the players prerogative, but LBH, we all thought he was England bound, and that has left a real sour taste in everyone’s mouth going to the Orcs, but could have got a few more quid down the road, and really tested himself in a better league at the same time. The bottom line is that he is gone. Booing him if he plays for us and turning on the hatred is just going to turn this whole thing into a Circus and could very well derail our own ambitions. I don’t think singling him out for this treatment is going to help the rest of the squad and if (for whatever reason) RN needs to play him, and he needs to contribute to our Bid to get Europe, then that has to come first. More money means better players. Getting into Europe means more money. Anything else is just an unwanted distraction for our club including constantly castigating him every time he pulls on the jersey and if he is here until the end of the season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Striker Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 20 minutes ago, Biffa Bacon said: There are not many business situations where someone would be happy giving away £300k if they didn't have to. I would file that scenario in the "no danger" bucket. Whether Hearts could slide such a clause into an early release contract, may be part of a package, but not for nothing, it could be less cash, depends how desperate sevco are to get JS in January rather than end of season. Fair comment - not much we can do if TRIFC don't come calling in the next 2 weeks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canscot Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 2 hours ago, Factuer Moi said: Because in ethics he is our player and also in both parties Sporting interests not to play him against his future club, due to terms agreements in the Pre Contract. Not stating that it is in there , i am saying it should be. No chance would we agree to not play him against Rangers if he is still our player. Never!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambo mark Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 Having read Neilson’s comments the club knew he was speaking to other clubs (how could anyone not have though?), how does everyone now read that statement we put out after they announced they’d signed him? I wonder if we asked TCFKAR to not announce a pre contract (like we did with Halkett and Livingston) so we could have continued playing him without the rage, fury and scrutiny that he will now be subjected too … Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ToqueJambo Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 6 minutes ago, jambo mark said: Having read Neilson’s comments the club knew he was speaking to other clubs (how could anyone not have though?), how does everyone now read that statement we put out after they announced they’d signed him? I wonder if we asked TCFKAR to not announce a pre contract (like we did with Halkett and Livingston) so we could have continued playing him without the rage, fury and scrutiny that he will now be subjected too … Think it was simply us reminding everyone that he's not going anywhere yet unless Rangers stump up some cash. Not sure clubs typically announce when their own players sign pre-contracts and instead tend to say their goodbyes when the player actually leaves, like Well have now done with Watt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartened Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 12 minutes ago, jambo mark said: Having read Neilson’s comments the club knew he was speaking to other clubs (how could anyone not have though?), how does everyone now read that statement we put out after they announced they’d signed him? I wonder if we asked TCFKAR to not announce a pre contract (like we did with Halkett and Livingston) so we could have continued playing him without the rage, fury and scrutiny that he will now be subjected too … Its obvious we knew he was talking to other clubs, however the statement suggests no knowledge of him even potentially signing a pre-contract until Rangers announced it. Either Soapy couldn't be arsed telling Hearts or Rangers just couldn't stop shooting their load as early as possible over their coup (without allowing Soapy the time to break the news). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Factuer Moi Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 1 hour ago, Canscot said: No chance would we agree to not play him against Rangers if he is still our player. Never!! Been up and down on the situation, i would bin him altogether. i certainly would drop him against Rangers, even though he would give it his all. That is the twisted shite going on in my mind right now. Not our fault though, all we do is pay up money to be shat on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humblerogue Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 He’s essentially a rangers player now I’d let him collect splinters on his arse until the summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Factuer Moi Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 Souttar has agreed to a 4 year deal with Rangers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyCant Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 1 hour ago, Factuer Moi said: Been up and down on the situation, i would bin him altogether. i certainly would drop him against Rangers, even though he would give it his all. That is the twisted shite going on in my mind right now. Not our fault though, all we do is pay up money to be shat on. You post like you’ve been hit by a lorry. Bits and pieces all over the place. Didn’t you say a couple of hours ago that it was in his pre contract that he can’t play against Rangers ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Factuer Moi Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 9 minutes ago, JimmyCant said: You post like you’ve been hit by a lorry. Bits and pieces all over the place. Didn’t you say a couple of hours ago that it was in his pre contract that he can’t play against Rangers ? I already answered that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 4 hours ago, Pasquale for King said: Because it’s the same for every pre contract, it’s a legally binding document, it doesn’t have clauses etc. You think his agents would sign that even if they could, considering his record? PCAs can be as detailed or as vague as they like. His could include specific figures and contract length, but it's not necessarily the case, someone posted info about them recently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 65 pages. To me it seems pretty simple. He has accepted an offer to at least double his wages. As at least 99 or per cent of professional footballers would do. The clue is in the word professional. We play him if in training and in games he demonstrates that he is an asset to the team. If not we don't. I really don't understand why it is 65 pages worth of difficulty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lido Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 1 hour ago, Humblerogue said: He’s essentially a rangers player now I’d let him collect splinters on his arse until the summer. He's a Hearts player till the summer unless Hearts decide otherwise, ie we accept an offer from Rangers in the next couple of weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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